More money matters: The #Giants converted $2.4 million of Leonard Williams’ salary into a bonus. It created $1.6M in cap space. They were tight against the cap entering this week.
with a starting QB on rookie contract and not being a contender caliber team is not a good sign.
we BARELY missed the playoffs last year and added
barkley, golladay, adoree jackson, and kyle rudolph.
say what you want but thats 4 talented football players added to this team. I think if we have those 4 last year we are absolutely a playoff team. You get in the dance and you never know.
this board is WAY down on the giants, but again....we barely missed playoffs last year with WAY less talent on offense specifically.
with a starting QB on rookie contract and not being a contender caliber team is not a good sign.
we BARELY missed the playoffs last year and added
barkley, golladay, adoree jackson, and kyle rudolph.
say what you want but thats 4 talented football players added to this team. I think if we have those 4 last year we are absolutely a playoff team. You get in the dance and you never know.
this board is WAY down on the giants, but again....we barely missed playoffs last year with WAY less talent on offense specifically.
We won six games last year. Six win teams have no business in the playoffs, we just happened to be in a historically shitty division. We were six back of any other division winner.
Team has to make a giant leap to be competitive with the other upper tier NFC teams. The division is like to be shitty again so that's a bonus but it doesn't mean we are ready to compete when it matters. All on Jones.
with a starting QB on rookie contract and not being a contender caliber team is not a good sign.
I’d disagree. This offseason was as good, if not maybe better, a one since the Plexico offseason We added solid talent all over the team. It was money well spent no matter the short term cap implications. And with the new TV contract it is short term.
If you look at who they are restructuring and who has the highest cap
The Giants are literally borrowing money from the future.
When you don’t know your future situation or needs, spending that money now might have consequences on a spectrum from minor (like these moves) to major.
I always say this — moves like this aren’t a tragedy, but they aren’t consequence free.
The Giants are literally borrowing money from the future.
When you don’t know your future situation or needs, spending that money now might have consequences on a spectrum from minor (like these moves) to major.
I always say this — moves like this aren’t a tragedy, but they aren’t consequence free.
I understand. I was not attempting to spin it as good. There has been a lot of back and forth about cap flexibility. The cap is flexible
RE: If you look at who they are restructuring and who has the highest cap
And some are even itching to somehow blast DG over this, but why can’t we dial it back 5-6 months to when the giants didn’t even have enough money or cap room to utilize UFA? Or do we just conveniently forget about that widely held belief around here. Go ahead and move on and forget it’s fine.
The giants aren’t doing anything out of the ordinary. It’s football business. Why are we angry again?
It’s literally being flexed and bent right before your eyes! And yes, this is all going to impact future moves, to some extent, that’s how it works. Would you prefer we go back and just never sign Williams? Or Bradbury in 2020? Or jackson?
It is what it is. The alternative is don’t sign those guys. Don’t build a team that on paper has talent. If this teams doesn’t win, like any other team or franchise, those players inevitably are purged or traded. That’s how it works. Want to win? You’re going to pay players. You’re going to move money around. Every team does it.
If you had to choose between a nice healthy cap OR acquiring the players we did this off-season, which would you choose? And don't say "they need to do better drafting", that's a different discussion for a different thread.
sam beal counting over 1M against this years cap. he should be making or be replaced by someone making the league minimum for what he brings to the table
booker is making 2.5M. he should be around the league minimum
riley dixon is making 2.9M. he should be about half that
evan engram should have been traded this offseason which would have saved them 6M against the cap.
they made bad decisions to get them here and now that they are here are compounding the problem by making more bad decisions because of the bad decisions that led them here
The giants have a shit load of players that are either starting or logging big snap counts that were in fact drafted over the last 3-4 years. I can rattle off about 12 players. That is good drafting. Now, some of these players (jones, Barkley, Thomas) need to have healthy and productive years to validate the pick, but I wouldn’t say the draft has been a let down lately. The jury is still out on some but many of these drafted players have shown serious staying power.
Everything hinges on this season but there are encouraging signs from 2020, notably the defense. If it carries over we might very well have a team with staying power.
The giants have a shit load of players that are either starting or logging big snap counts that were in fact drafted over the last 3-4 years. I can rattle off about 12 players. That is good drafting. Now, some of these players (jones, Barkley, Thomas) need to have healthy and productive years to validate the pick, but I wouldn’t say the draft has been a let down lately. The jury is still out on some but many of these drafted players have shown serious staying power.
Everything hinges on this season but there are encouraging signs from 2020, notably the defense. If it carries over we might very well have a team with staying power.
please do youself a favor and list out the draft picks under DG. when you're done with that exercise you cannot reach any other conclusion but the drafting under DG has been putrid at best
It is not really fair to compare the Giants 2021 cap to the 2020 record as the team was very active in free agency and spent considerable 2021 cash on new players. Would we be happier if we saved 2021 cap money and not signed Golladay, Jackson, Rudolph etc?
The giants have a shit load of players that are either starting or logging big snap counts that were in fact drafted over the last 3-4 years. I can rattle off about 12 players. That is good drafting. Now, some of these players (jones, Barkley, Thomas) need to have healthy and productive years to validate the pick, but I wouldn’t say the draft has been a let down lately. The jury is still out on some but many of these drafted players have shown serious staying power.
Everything hinges on this season but there are encouraging signs from 2020, notably the defense. If it carries over we might very well have a team with staying power.
please do youself a favor and list out the draft picks under DG. when you're done with that exercise you cannot reach any other conclusion but the drafting under DG has been putrid at best
Barkley is a good player
Hernandez is a starter (let’s see how he does this year but solid in 18)
Carter was a sensible pick. Need to see this season
Hill was a sensible pick and carried value
Lawrence is a damn good pick
Jones jury is out but sensible pick — need to see more
Baker was a bust
Love is a nice pick maybe even better
X man not bad by any means this year will tell us more
Last year’s draft needs this year to grow but everyone loves McKinney and nearly every rookie played last year. Talk to me after this season but it’s far from a debacle based on early returns.
Not to mention guys like Gates and more under the radar FAs.
This season needs to unfold, but you’re a little jumpy on the drafts.
with a starting QB on rookie contract and not being a contender caliber team is not a good sign.
Bingo
So what are you implying? That if jones blows up this year and goes 4300 total yards with 30 total tds and the giants win 10 games this team won’t be kept together due to cap issues? That they would sign jones and lose core talent? Wanna bet ?
You guys worry too much. The 2016 paying spree led to a two year bike from orbit phase and that does suck, but that only happened because the team fell apart, lack of leadership being the main catalyst. That doesn’t have to happen here this time around and likely won’t, and if it doesn’t, the giants will find a way to keep the core together.
Nope, a strong sign drafting isn't working to this point and they're spending via UFA to try and make up for it.
the players who are signed in FA replace draft picks that don't make it to 2nd contracts from the drafts 4-5 years prior. They didn't need to use the $ sign Leonard Williams because Dexter Lawrence was a bust, it was because they didn't have anyone worth signing to a second contract from the 14/15/16 drafts.
Nate Solder was signed in 2018 (and Zeitler added in 2019) because of the failed Ereck Flowers, Weston Richburg, and Justin Pugh picks in 13/14/15.
James Bradberry was signed in 2020 because of the failed Eli Apple pick in 2016.
Peppers and Ryan ended up here because Collins (15) and Thompson (16) aren't.
Paying Leonard Williams over Tomlinson was more of a choice than a replacement. Same with Golladay I suppose, though if OBJ were still here I doubt Golladay would be. Or if Evan Engram was the player they thought he'd be when they drafted him and someone they were preparing to give a big contract to.
Giants likely won’t be big spenders next offseason
barely missing the playoffs with said record is real empty consideration, imv.
we were in some very winnable games if we had half and offense is more the message there. we almost beat the current champs if it wasn't for a deflected INT. eagles game was off the fingers of engram. lots of 2-3 point games.
And some are even itching to somehow blast DG over this, but why can’t we dial it back 5-6 months to when the giants didn’t even have enough money or cap room to utilize UFA? Or do we just conveniently forget about that widely held belief around here. Go ahead and move on and forget it’s fine.
The giants aren’t doing anything out of the ordinary. It’s football business. Why are we angry again?
because our team has sucked for most of the past decade, and we're kinda over it.
Nope, a strong sign drafting isn't working to this point and they're spending via UFA to try and make up for it.
the players who are signed in FA replace draft picks that don't make it to 2nd contracts from the drafts 4-5 years prior. They didn't need to use the $ sign Leonard Williams because Dexter Lawrence was a bust, it was because they didn't have anyone worth signing to a second contract from the 14/15/16 drafts.
Nate Solder was signed in 2018 (and Zeitler added in 2019) because of the failed Ereck Flowers, Weston Richburg, and Justin Pugh picks in 13/14/15.
James Bradberry was signed in 2020 because of the failed Eli Apple pick in 2016.
Peppers and Ryan ended up here because Collins (15) and Thompson (16) aren't.
Paying Leonard Williams over Tomlinson was more of a choice than a replacement. Same with Golladay I suppose, though if OBJ were still here I doubt Golladay would be. Or if Evan Engram was the player they thought he'd be when they drafted him and someone they were preparing to give a big contract to.
Exactly. I’m sorry but using this restructure or front office offseason behavior as some sort of way to indict the last 3-4 drafts is just crazy to me. Like I said the jury might me out on some of the picks, but even conjuring up Barkley as one is kind of ridiculous. The guy is an all caliber pro talent.
We already got more out of the 18-21 drafts than we ever got out of 13-17. My god the mid rounds and undrafted FAs alone, from 18-21 blow away anything from 13-17.
That is absolutely correct. The moves made this year seemed generally positive, but it is hard to argue that they are patching holes to make up for very poor moves the last few years.
Let’s say 2016, we really only liked hankins, beckham and Collins. Apple was average at best his first year then sucked forever. Pugh was ok. We’re we’re holding out for dear life on those guys alone. No mid rounds with any hope at all unless I am missing someone, ok kennard.
Whatever we will see this year. Book isn’t finished yet.
Point is 18-21 has a chance here to help this team move forward here. Let’s see if. Just because 13-17 failed doesn’t mean these guys fail. There’s meat in these drafts I firmly believe it.
RE: Jackson was to patch the hole due to baker miss
Point is 18-21 has a chance here to help this team move forward here. Let’s see if. Just because 13-17 failed doesn’t mean these guys fail. There’s meat in these drafts I firmly believe it.
Not to mention, the Giants have 5 picks in the next 3 rounds next year, including 2 1sts. Things are looking up.
More Fans here would be hopeful about the future. I get the fear and skeptical takes but things are clearly looking up. The coffers aren’t bare anymore and the team has a cohesive plan. There’s leadership. Enjoy this season it won’t be dull. And it won’t be bad.
Good asset allocation is just one of many requirements to build a playoff team.
The danger with spending future money on current needs, is you don’t know what your future needs will be. You get the top shelf guys all right, and still miss out if you don’t get the middle tier guys right too.
It takes such precision to be good in a league where the resources are fixed, and the talent is so close.
The best outcome is to not have to resort to paying players more than you intended in any year, and that’s what kicking the can does.
It’s just one of many things the Giants have been bad at the last 7 years, and it’s something to watch.
always have cap issues.
always have cap issues.
yep, the cap is fluid...
It's got to be a few at least...
It's all the money they keep pouring into the offensive line.
we BARELY missed the playoffs last year and added
barkley, golladay, adoree jackson, and kyle rudolph.
say what you want but thats 4 talented football players added to this team. I think if we have those 4 last year we are absolutely a playoff team. You get in the dance and you never know.
this board is WAY down on the giants, but again....we barely missed playoffs last year with WAY less talent on offense specifically.
The cap is goingnto keep going uo, every team in the league is doing this
With a 17 game season, teams will need at least 3-4 million in space for future signings.
Right now, according to ATC, the Giants have 3.4 million in space. No idea if it includes this restructure, but I would guess that it does.
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with a starting QB on rookie contract and not being a contender caliber team is not a good sign.
It's all the money they keep pouring into the offensive line.
Money well spent...
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with a starting QB on rookie contract and not being a contender caliber team is not a good sign.
we BARELY missed the playoffs last year and added
barkley, golladay, adoree jackson, and kyle rudolph.
say what you want but thats 4 talented football players added to this team. I think if we have those 4 last year we are absolutely a playoff team. You get in the dance and you never know.
this board is WAY down on the giants, but again....we barely missed playoffs last year with WAY less talent on offense specifically.
We won six games last year. Six win teams have no business in the playoffs, we just happened to be in a historically shitty division. We were six back of any other division winner.
Team has to make a giant leap to be competitive with the other upper tier NFC teams. The division is like to be shitty again so that's a bonus but it doesn't mean we are ready to compete when it matters. All on Jones.
I’d disagree. This offseason was as good, if not maybe better, a one since the Plexico offseason We added solid talent all over the team. It was money well spent no matter the short term cap implications. And with the new TV contract it is short term.
MAYBE Jackson.
Otherwise, it is the core / best players on the team.
That’s not by definition always good.
The Giants are literally borrowing money from the future.
When you don’t know your future situation or needs, spending that money now might have consequences on a spectrum from minor (like these moves) to major.
I always say this — moves like this aren’t a tragedy, but they aren’t consequence free.
I have to agree. I don't understand the whole "the Giants are always good with the cap" posts. They always seem to have a lot of dead money.
Kevin Abrams is good at what he does.
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To an extent which is where some say it is fluid.
That’s not by definition always good.
The Giants are literally borrowing money from the future.
When you don’t know your future situation or needs, spending that money now might have consequences on a spectrum from minor (like these moves) to major.
I always say this — moves like this aren’t a tragedy, but they aren’t consequence free.
I understand. I was not attempting to spin it as good. There has been a lot of back and forth about cap flexibility. The cap is flexible
MAYBE Jackson.
Otherwise, it is the core / best players on the team.
i would not consider shep to be in that group of core / best players on the team
The giants aren’t doing anything out of the ordinary. It’s football business. Why are we angry again?
Indeed. I have to roll my eyes whenever anyone starts beating the drum about almost winning the worst division in recent NFL history.
most yards in any season - 872
most touchdowns in any season - 8
only played in 16 games in 2 out of 5 seasons
not the guy you want to invest in and be locked into under any circumstance. i cannot understand why people think he's good
It is what it is. The alternative is don’t sign those guys. Don’t build a team that on paper has talent. If this teams doesn’t win, like any other team or franchise, those players inevitably are purged or traded. That’s how it works. Want to win? You’re going to pay players. You’re going to move money around. Every team does it.
For the N.O. 2nd and our 2030 7th?
booker is making 2.5M. he should be around the league minimum
riley dixon is making 2.9M. he should be about half that
evan engram should have been traded this offseason which would have saved them 6M against the cap.
they made bad decisions to get them here and now that they are here are compounding the problem by making more bad decisions because of the bad decisions that led them here
Everything hinges on this season but there are encouraging signs from 2020, notably the defense. If it carries over we might very well have a team with staying power.
Everything hinges on this season but there are encouraging signs from 2020, notably the defense. If it carries over we might very well have a team with staying power.
please do youself a favor and list out the draft picks under DG. when you're done with that exercise you cannot reach any other conclusion but the drafting under DG has been putrid at best
Bingo
And these are being done because they had to...
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The giants have a shit load of players that are either starting or logging big snap counts that were in fact drafted over the last 3-4 years. I can rattle off about 12 players. That is good drafting. Now, some of these players (jones, Barkley, Thomas) need to have healthy and productive years to validate the pick, but I wouldn’t say the draft has been a let down lately. The jury is still out on some but many of these drafted players have shown serious staying power.
Everything hinges on this season but there are encouraging signs from 2020, notably the defense. If it carries over we might very well have a team with staying power.
please do youself a favor and list out the draft picks under DG. when you're done with that exercise you cannot reach any other conclusion but the drafting under DG has been putrid at best
Barkley is a good player
Hernandez is a starter (let’s see how he does this year but solid in 18)
Carter was a sensible pick. Need to see this season
Hill was a sensible pick and carried value
Lawrence is a damn good pick
Jones jury is out but sensible pick — need to see more
Baker was a bust
Love is a nice pick maybe even better
X man not bad by any means this year will tell us more
Last year’s draft needs this year to grow but everyone loves McKinney and nearly every rookie played last year. Talk to me after this season but it’s far from a debacle based on early returns.
Not to mention guys like Gates and more under the radar FAs.
This season needs to unfold, but you’re a little jumpy on the drafts.
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with a starting QB on rookie contract and not being a contender caliber team is not a good sign.
Bingo
So what are you implying? That if jones blows up this year and goes 4300 total yards with 30 total tds and the giants win 10 games this team won’t be kept together due to cap issues? That they would sign jones and lose core talent? Wanna bet ?
You guys worry too much. The 2016 paying spree led to a two year bike from orbit phase and that does suck, but that only happened because the team fell apart, lack of leadership being the main catalyst. That doesn’t have to happen here this time around and likely won’t, and if it doesn’t, the giants will find a way to keep the core together.
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with a starting QB on rookie contract and not being a contender caliber team is not a good sign.
Bingo
+2.
the players who are signed in FA replace draft picks that don't make it to 2nd contracts from the drafts 4-5 years prior. They didn't need to use the $ sign Leonard Williams because Dexter Lawrence was a bust, it was because they didn't have anyone worth signing to a second contract from the 14/15/16 drafts.
Nate Solder was signed in 2018 (and Zeitler added in 2019) because of the failed Ereck Flowers, Weston Richburg, and Justin Pugh picks in 13/14/15.
James Bradberry was signed in 2020 because of the failed Eli Apple pick in 2016.
Peppers and Ryan ended up here because Collins (15) and Thompson (16) aren't.
Paying Leonard Williams over Tomlinson was more of a choice than a replacement. Same with Golladay I suppose, though if OBJ were still here I doubt Golladay would be. Or if Evan Engram was the player they thought he'd be when they drafted him and someone they were preparing to give a big contract to.
This team has its budget near max but there’s little to no dead weight. Time to put it all together.
we were in some very winnable games if we had half and offense is more the message there. we almost beat the current champs if it wasn't for a deflected INT. eagles game was off the fingers of engram. lots of 2-3 point games.
The giants aren’t doing anything out of the ordinary. It’s football business. Why are we angry again?
because our team has sucked for most of the past decade, and we're kinda over it.
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Nope, a strong sign drafting isn't working to this point and they're spending via UFA to try and make up for it.
the players who are signed in FA replace draft picks that don't make it to 2nd contracts from the drafts 4-5 years prior. They didn't need to use the $ sign Leonard Williams because Dexter Lawrence was a bust, it was because they didn't have anyone worth signing to a second contract from the 14/15/16 drafts.
Nate Solder was signed in 2018 (and Zeitler added in 2019) because of the failed Ereck Flowers, Weston Richburg, and Justin Pugh picks in 13/14/15.
James Bradberry was signed in 2020 because of the failed Eli Apple pick in 2016.
Peppers and Ryan ended up here because Collins (15) and Thompson (16) aren't.
Paying Leonard Williams over Tomlinson was more of a choice than a replacement. Same with Golladay I suppose, though if OBJ were still here I doubt Golladay would be. Or if Evan Engram was the player they thought he'd be when they drafted him and someone they were preparing to give a big contract to.
Exactly. I’m sorry but using this restructure or front office offseason behavior as some sort of way to indict the last 3-4 drafts is just crazy to me. Like I said the jury might me out on some of the picks, but even conjuring up Barkley as one is kind of ridiculous. The guy is an all caliber pro talent.
We already got more out of the 18-21 drafts than we ever got out of 13-17. My god the mid rounds and undrafted FAs alone, from 18-21 blow away anything from 13-17.
That is absolutely correct. The moves made this year seemed generally positive, but it is hard to argue that they are patching holes to make up for very poor moves the last few years.
Whatever we will see this year. Book isn’t finished yet.
Not to mention, the Giants have 5 picks in the next 3 rounds next year, including 2 1sts. Things are looking up.
The danger with spending future money on current needs, is you don’t know what your future needs will be. You get the top shelf guys all right, and still miss out if you don’t get the middle tier guys right too.
It takes such precision to be good in a league where the resources are fixed, and the talent is so close.
The best outcome is to not have to resort to paying players more than you intended in any year, and that’s what kicking the can does.
It’s just one of many things the Giants have been bad at the last 7 years, and it’s something to watch.