Passing vs. Running the ball

I hope he watched to learn what to do...

catching those 2-3 yard passes and turning them into 10-12 yard gains will be vital.

In comment 15358238 ZogZerg said:

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I hope he watched to learn what to do...

This is true.

and I agree with the approach, but that being said Dallas and TB have the perfect personnel for such an attack. The thing I "enjoyed" about the Dallas offense is that they constantly attack single coverage. Now they have the receivers to do that which is something that was greatly lacking for us, but hopefully we can implement similar tactics this year with some better weapons on our side.

Agreed with thread starter. Running early and often leads to third and longs, which leads to punts.

The rules have changed to encourage passing. Last night you saw a clear offensive pass interference not called in a game deciding play. The league wants teams throwing the ball...so throw the ball.

You make several interesting observations, and have stated several important facts that are not really arguable.

But I don't think one can draw any hard and fast conclusions about run vs pass from just one game.


Archer: "Establish the pass so that you can run the ball. Do not run to establish the pass"

I don't believe there is a fixed rule about this. The two are usually synergistic. I've seen passing success when a run game has been established and then the QB play actions off that.

Archer: "Scoring in the Red Zone has become logarithmically more difficult..."

True, but that's just because the defense has a lot less ground to cover. It's difficult to score in the red zone via passing and running.

Archer: "Tampa did not run against Dallas despite Dallas having having an awful run defense. And Dallas did not run despite having Elliott."

Dallas' reliance on the passing game may have been a pre-game decision since they were going up against a great run defense team. As for Dallas' run defense, they stoned a pretty good rushing attack so maybe the Cowboys are a lot better against the run than you assume. Time will tell.

Archer: "Both teams eschewed the run in favor of passing. Short passes and long passes were implemented that stretched the field both horizontally and vertically."

Very true, but both teams also happen to have top flight pass blocking O-Lines. If their respective pass blocking resembled the Giants over the past decade, the passing stats probably would not have looked as good. Bottom line: this isn't really about pass first / run second.

Archer: "Tampa had 11 penalties for 110 yards with most of these by the defense on passing plays."

If you are saying the odds go up that a defense will be called for pass interference the more often an offense passes the ball, well, then, I agree. But Tampa's pass defense was mediocre to begin with and then it got hit with the injury bug during the game. Their CBs were holding on for dear life out there.

Archer: "Dallas trusts their receivers to win and catch the ball or to draw a penalty. It is apart of their game plan and their philosophy."

OK, but this assumes you have a really strong receiving corp. Dallas does. But this isn't a run v pass issue.

Archer: "The most compelling game stat that confirms the diminishing importance of rushing the ball is that there were (7) tds in the game, none of these scores were run in, all were the result of passes"

If you don't try to run the ball in that often, then you are not going to get rushing TDs that often.

Archer: "I hope that Garrett understands that establishing the run is a remnant of the past
This is a passing league"

True, this is a passing league, but if a defense doesn't respect the run game, it will make it that much more difficult to pass the ball, especially with a mediocre-to-weak pass blocking O-Line. Which, until proven otherwise, describes the Giants.

it is not just passing the ball.

It is making quick passes. That's the ticket.

Did everyone note the stat NBC put up showing Brady's improvement over the years in how quickly he gets rid of the ball?

last year. I think his playcalling last year was reflective of the dire personnel situation on offense last year, not from a lack of understanding that current NFL offenses don't score points running a Tom Osborne nebraska style offense.

I was thinking the Giants never attack this way. Garrett will come out and try to establish TFL champ Barkley by running on first two downs - then 3rd and long - Blitz- Punt. Barkley is a terrible fit for a run first offense but could be a great weapon in a pass first offense similar to the way Kamara is used in NO. Dallas attacked the Tampa defense relentlessly last night. If Jones is not ready for this we need a new QB.

on defense had no one to worry about. No Barkley and barely any WRs. Hopefully we upgraded at WR and at TE. Barkley alone gives the defense something to think about. Defensive teams where teeing off on Jones and I don't blame them.

is that neither team “used the pass to establish the run.” They just had efficient passing attacks, but neither generated any running game. They had a combined total of 112 yards rushing between them.
The Giants are not built that way. Barkley is still their most dynamic offensive weapon. Scouting reports on virtually every member of the OLine reads good run blocker, needs work on pass blocking. I just don’t think this team goes very far without an effective running game.

.

plus some really good wrs to do what Dallas did yesterday? Their 3rd wr was better than our best WR last year..

would be as a decoy for the passing game. Denver is going to have 8 or 9 guys near the line every time he's in the game.

To a lesser extent the same thing with Toney. One of the things that drove me nuts with a certain long time Giants HC of recent vintage is that he would have a "package" for a player who was going to get a dozen snaps tops that week and the defense knew every time he entered the game that were was a very high probability that player was getting the ball.

I'm not saying never give them or throw them the ball. I'm saying let them suck in the defense and then go somewhere else with the ball first. Get the defense off balance.

to the point of people complaining about it. IMO the Dallas offense is the same, and its likely he started it there

In comment 15358580 chuckydee9 said:

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plus some really good wrs to do what Dallas did yesterday? Their 3rd wr was better than our best WR last year..

Reflects pretty poorly on the GM that we're in year 4 of his rebuild and the OL is still an enormous question mark.