25%. That's fucking awful and a key indicator in winning in today's NFL. But the ball gargling about the Cowboys offense doesn't stop because they racked up a ton of yards. They need to do a helluva lot better than that considering the talent.
That's how you lose football games when you win the turnover differential by 3. Dak was a major factor in that because he had an easy TD to Zeke with no pressure in his face and didn't pull the trigger until way too late. Everyone focusing on the fact he threw that TD on the hitch because he dropped the snap (which was poor but QB needs to catch that). This hype on the Cowboys team is way overblown because they played a close game in TB week 1.
At the very bottom we have a cost controlled QB for the next 3 years thats outplaying his contract. Anytime you get that your in the black.
I think those are some pretty broad observations. I’d put aside the contract optimism for now, as we all know if Jones puts up a year truly outperforming his contract, his deal will be re-looked at.
He had a nice 3 game run Tampa through Philly, but the injury really obscures the trend line. Any three game stretch is practically insignificant.
I don’t pencil in any assumptions on a guy with a thin track record. If picks up there over the first quarter of the season this year, I’ll get excited.
Quote:
That's why I've been excited, DJ has absolutely been trending in the right direction since the second half of that Bucs game over the long haul. The throwaway he made in that game was the beginning of what should be a very good Giants career. I thought maybe this is the point, and I saw it week after week. They took a step back in the beginning of the last season to work on his decision making and not just letting things fly and trusting presnap reads too much (which led to some ints).
At the very bottom we have a cost controlled QB for the next 3 years thats outplaying his contract. Anytime you get that your in the black.
I think those are some pretty broad observations. I’d put aside the contract optimism for now, as we all know if Jones puts up a year truly outperforming his contract, his deal will be re-looked at.
He had a nice 3 game run Tampa through Philly, but the injury really obscures the trend line. Any three game stretch is practically insignificant.
I don’t pencil in any assumptions on a guy with a thin track record. If picks up there over the first quarter of the season this year, I’ll get excited.
I thought he looked good against the Ravens on. Not shabby considering he couldn't use his mobility at all in the Ravens game.
Have you seen what DJ gets paid? He's certainly worth more than his contract, but I guess we won't have people jump on board until we see him on an offense with baseline NFL talent (which we finally have this year).
You can't have the investments on offense, win the turnover battle by 3, and squander opportunties in the redzone and expect to win. It's the most important stat in modern day football outside of turnovers. Win the turnover battle, score/stop in the redzone, and then explosive plays. There is the formula for success.
More?
So they really won the turnover battle only by 2 because Brady threw a hail mary interception at end of first half which didn't matter in the calculus.
With that said, they got points off some turnovers and put up 29 points on the board including take the lead with a minute and some change to go. Dak played very well no matter how you want to try and paint a different picture.
And yes, Dallas lost...to a better team. Which is good for us, so what's your problem?
But I get it…Cowturds, Cowgirls…hardy har har it’s funny because they suck.
Big Blue Insecurity rides again.
It's a point of contention because it literally drives me nuts how people evaluate QBs without understanding context. He missed an easy TD to Zeke and it was the difference between winning and losing. If it was DJ he would get eviscerated here by the same people that are pom pomming Daks performance, that's what drives me nuts because all they see is stats.
This 100%. You can't win throwing the ball 60+ times.
It's a point of contention because it literally drives me nuts how people evaluate QBs without understanding context. He missed an easy TD to Zeke and it was the difference between winning and losing. If it was DJ he would get eviscerated here by the same people that are pom pomming Daks performance, that's what drives me nuts because all they see is stats.
Actually your problem is just what Mike posted.
Your emotions as a vested Giant fan and relative to DJ cloud your objectivity. The good news is you have plenty of company on here...
It's a point of contention because it literally drives me nuts how people evaluate QBs without understanding context. He missed an easy TD to Zeke and it was the difference between winning and losing. If it was DJ he would get eviscerated here by the same people that are pom pomming Daks performance, that's what drives me nuts because all they see is stats.
Let’s put it this way. If Jones plays this year like Prescott did last night, you will stop hearing people clamor for another QB.
I don’t know what you expected to see when the game plan was clearly to throw quick hit routes to minimize the pass rush and take advantage of the corners. Deep ins? He threw one into triple coverage and it bounced off Lamb’s hands and turned into an interception. He had another TD dropped by Lamb. That strategy is less effective in the red zone due to limited space.
The Cowboys lost because Lamb has inconsistent hands and their defense is weak. Prescott played well enough to win that game.
Who knows they could be good but you can’t anoint them a good defense yet.
Quote:
He played decently, but if he actually played as good as everyone seems to think, they would have won that game. There were a ton of opportunities to get in the endzone and they didn't convert at a high enough clip. When you have such a talent differential, you need to get it done. The Bucs secondary isn't good and they had Ross Cockrell running around out there like a chicken with his head cut off. Remember him? We all loved him so much here, lol.
It's a point of contention because it literally drives me nuts how people evaluate QBs without understanding context. He missed an easy TD to Zeke and it was the difference between winning and losing. If it was DJ he would get eviscerated here by the same people that are pom pomming Daks performance, that's what drives me nuts because all they see is stats.
Let’s put it this way. If Jones plays this year like Prescott did last night, you will stop hearing people clamor for another QB.
I don’t know what you expected to see when the game plan was clearly to throw quick hit routes to minimize the pass rush and take advantage of the corners. Deep ins? He threw one into triple coverage and it bounced off Lamb’s hands and turned into an interception. He had another TD dropped by Lamb. That strategy is less effective in the red zone due to limited space.
The Cowboys lost because Lamb has inconsistent hands and their defense is weak. Prescott played well enough to win that game.
When you have such a talent differential on the outside, it still works. Shit look at the TD pass Dak made where he dropped the ball. He had time to pick it up and get it to Cooper because he beat his man so bad.
And that throw to Lamb is a highly questionable one, the risk-reward there just isn't worth it. Throwing into triple coverage when your guy has a split second to secure the ball and getting lit up is going to end up bad more times than good. Was it on the money throw? Yep, but there were way too many bodies around that one to consider that a good decision unless you are in some situation where you absolutely need to score with time an issue.
Quote:
Its funny how their hanging with the SB winners
jvm52106 : 3:04 pm : link : reply
is viewed as a moral victory and the Giants hanging with the Bucs last year was seen as a choke job, a game blown by Jones's turnovers and the defense not holding.
Where did I say that?
I wasn't referring to you- more general opinion by some.
Who knows they could be good but you can’t anoint them a good defense yet.
They had some injuries last night which didn't help. But they still look pretty good to me.
Dak neutralized that pass rush with all the quick throws, but he also took some big damn licks. Some even from those Tampa backups...
Quote:
Just because they ended the year well last year doesn’t mean it will carry over. They lost one of their best corners, they didn’t get much of a pass rush. JPP is a year older.
Who knows they could be good but you can’t anoint them a good defense yet.
They had some injuries last night which didn't help. But they still look pretty good to me.
Dak neutralized that pass rush with all the quick throws, but he also took some big damn licks. Some even from those Tampa backups...
I live here so I watch the Bucs every week, their secondary isn't good to begin with and extremely thin. Their version of our OL in the media has been the secondary the last few years. That quieted down last year because their front 7 is so ferocious it created a lot of gimme picks for their secondary. We saw some last night, but they couldn't secure them.
This is the NFL and NFL WRs need to make that catch. You may have noticed the league doesn’t let receivers get lit up anymore. It was a good decision, a good throw, and a poor drop.
Jones is in the lows 20s of cap hits this year. Only a couple of QBs making more played worse than him last year.
If he picks up his level of play to the level you describe, he will get an extension.
Quote:
Have you seen what DJ gets paid? He's certainly worth more than his contract, but I guess we won't have people jump on board until we see him on an offense with baseline NFL talent (which we finally have this year).
Jones is in the lows 20s of cap hits this year. Only a couple of QBs making more played worse than him last year.
If he picks up his level of play to the level you describe, he will get an extension.
Well that's where we disagree, but I get it, most won't understand until they see it on the stat sheet.
If he picks up his level of play to the level you describe, he will get an extension.
Well that's where we disagree, but I get it, most won't understand until they see it on the stat sheet.
You don’t agree he’ll get extended if he plays well or you don’t agree he wasn’t a top 20 QB last year?
me concerned, but apparently he was quiet.
I don't see Dallas as a threat, I think ole man Fitzpatrick and the WFT finish second and our heroes lead from start to finish.
I don’t follow you regarding Zak Prescott’s performance last night?
Your write-up makes it sound like he’s one of the worst NFL QBs and last night was just one more lousy performance.
I don’t follow you regarding Zak Prescott’s performance last night?
Your write-up makes it sound like he’s one of the worst NFL QBs and last night was just one more lousy performance.
What? No, I said he's a good QB, but the question is that he needs to prove that he's worth that contract. I thought he played decently, but he left a lot of plays on the field, and the Cowboys need to score a ton of points because of the way the team is constructed. He needs to leave less of those plays on the field. The overreaction to last night is insane and a lot of it is driven because he had a pretty horrific injury last year and its a feel-good story. But as far as recovery goes, breaking bones generally heal well, better than blowing out your knee.
Quote:
Jones is in the lows 20s of cap hits this year. Only a couple of QBs making more played worse than him last year.
If he picks up his level of play to the level you describe, he will get an extension.
Well that's where we disagree, but I get it, most won't understand until they see it on the stat sheet.
You don’t agree he’ll get extended if he plays well or you don’t agree he wasn’t a top 20 QB last year?
He was a top 20 QB last year.
me concerned, but apparently he was quiet.
I don't see Dallas as a threat, I think ole man Fitzpatrick and the WFT finish second and our heroes lead from start to finish.
I think he is going to be really good as it was his first game in two years. The big worry would be if they had strong bookend edge guys. Then they could model Mannings Colts by getting out front forcing teams to play catch up and you get the QB with excellent edge guys.
Dallas was in position to win a game penciled in by many as a loss, they didn’t, they are 0-1, headed into a venue that could easily result in 0-2.
This was no moral victory, it was a Bad and disappointing loss.
Prescott threw 58 pass attempts as opposed to just 14 rushing attempts by Elliott and Pollard.
I don’t know if they were trying to showcase Prescott, or if he was changing the calls at the line, but that doesn’t seem like a recipe for sustained success.
Dallas was winning a lot of games behind the power run game of DeMarco Murray, and then Ezekiel Elliott. Somewhere along the line, they really decided to air it out. Those enormous offensive lines would wear on teams.
Tampa Bay has a good defense, and I know that this is now a passing league, but nonetheless, it is pretty surprising.
Not sure if people are just trying to convince themselves Dallas sucks. But I guess whatever helps you sleep at night.
Quite the opposite really. If anything Giants fans tend to overinflate the Cowboys.
I think they'll be better than most thought they'd be.
What good did that do us last year?
Meanwhile, this might not be a discussion at all if Zuerlein doesn't shank a 31 yard FG.
If Jones is helping the team score 29PPG, with limited turnovers, but we are losing, the blame is absolutely focused elsewhere.
Quote:
Kind of numbers and the Giants lose consistently; fans here would absolutely blame the qb.
If Jones is helping the team score 29PPG, with limited turnovers, but we are losing, the blame is absolutely focused elsewhere.
I think it would go something like -- "Jones is the quarterback; they have more control over the game than any one position, he must overcome shortcomings elsewhere on the team."
Quote:
Kind of numbers and the Giants lose consistently; fans here would absolutely blame the qb.
If Jones is helping the team score 29PPG, with limited turnovers, but we are losing, the blame is absolutely focused elsewhere.
Yep
Quote:
Kind of numbers and the Giants lose consistently; fans here would absolutely blame the qb.
If Jones is helping the team score 29PPG, with limited turnovers, but we are losing, the blame is absolutely focused elsewhere.
Are you looking at how the Cowboys are constructed? It's heavily into the offense. Dak is going to need to lead them to 30 points on a weekly basis to win. Should be interesting to see what Dak is made of now that Collins is suspended and Gallop is out. A slow start is on horizon for the Cowboys unless they can run the ball with Martin coming back. They did nothing to address the defense this year except add Parsons.
This is the NFL and NFL WRs need to make that catch. You may have noticed the league doesn’t let receivers get lit up anymore. It was a good decision, a good throw, and a poor drop.
A bang bang play into triple coverage over the middle of the field is just not going to end in your favor more times than not. And it's not like Lamb is known for his secure hands or contested catch ability. He's a big-time YAC guy. If DJ made the same throw to Engram I'd say that was a bad decision. If it was something that was absolutely needed sure, but it wasn't even close to a crucial point in the game.
I think they'll be better than most thought they'd be.
We hung in with them last year too but most people still think we suck.
If Jones is helping the team score 29PPG, with limited turnovers, but we are losing, the blame is absolutely focused elsewhere.
I think it would go something like -- "Jones is the quarterback; they have more control over the game than any one position, he must overcome shortcomings elsewhere on the team."
I could see that. But at 29ppg, that's a very tough sell.
Are you looking at how the Cowboys are constructed? It's heavily into the offense. Dak is going to need to lead them to 30 points on a weekly basis to win. Should be interesting to see what Dak is made of now that Collins is suspended and Gallop is out. A slow start is on horizon for the Cowboys unless they can run the ball with Martin coming back. They did nothing to address the defense this year except add Parsons.
I agree. Dak has an incredible load on his shoulders. But I think they can plug for Gallup with Wilson and Fehoko (who I loved out of Stanford this past draft).
Look, they made a huge mistake giving Zeke that contract. If they are smart, they try to trade him while he may still have some market value.
Quote:
on whether a tight window throw down field that hits your receiver in the hands is a good or bad play by the QB.
This is the NFL and NFL WRs need to make that catch. You may have noticed the league doesn’t let receivers get lit up anymore. It was a good decision, a good throw, and a poor drop.
A bang bang play into triple coverage over the middle of the field is just not going to end in your favor more times than not. And it's not like Lamb is known for his secure hands or contested catch ability. He's a big-time YAC guy. If DJ made the same throw to Engram I'd say that was a bad decision. If it was something that was absolutely needed sure, but it wasn't even close to a crucial point in the game.
It was a perfect throw. Lamb dropped it. He was pissed at himself sitting on the bench after it happened.
He dropped it...and your bias against Dak is about you.
Quote:
In comment 15358824 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
on whether a tight window throw down field that hits your receiver in the hands is a good or bad play by the QB.
This is the NFL and NFL WRs need to make that catch. You may have noticed the league doesn’t let receivers get lit up anymore. It was a good decision, a good throw, and a poor drop.
A bang bang play into triple coverage over the middle of the field is just not going to end in your favor more times than not. And it's not like Lamb is known for his secure hands or contested catch ability. He's a big-time YAC guy. If DJ made the same throw to Engram I'd say that was a bad decision. If it was something that was absolutely needed sure, but it wasn't even close to a crucial point in the game.
It was a perfect throw. Lamb dropped it. He was pissed at himself sitting on the bench after it happened.
He dropped it...and your bias against Dak is about you.
Of course he's pissed he dropped it, he's an NFL receiver. I don't have a bias against Dak either, like I said I like him and have been in his corner since he was a rookie. I just don't think paying him 40 million dollars was a wise move. He just doesn't get it done against elite defenses or win enough shootouts. The Cowboys have a stacked offense, so that's what it's going to take, and its up to the QB to get them there.
It was a juicy matchup for their offense because they were going to be able to do enough to keep that ferocious front 7 at bay and let their skill guys do their thing with the ball against a poor secondary. I don't understand Tampa Bay's gameplan at all offensively in that one either, although they lost complete confidence in ROJO.
Quote:
Are you looking at how the Cowboys are constructed? It's heavily into the offense. Dak is going to need to lead them to 30 points on a weekly basis to win. Should be interesting to see what Dak is made of now that Collins is suspended and Gallop is out. A slow start is on horizon for the Cowboys unless they can run the ball with Martin coming back. They did nothing to address the defense this year except add Parsons.
I agree. Dak has an incredible load on his shoulders. But I think they can plug for Gallup with Wilson and Fehoko (who I loved out of Stanford this past draft).
Look, they made a huge mistake giving Zeke that contract. If they are smart, they try to trade him while he may still have some market value.
Zeke was a borderline resign guy at RB, he's not in the CMC, Barkley, Kamara, and Henry class. With the bonus you never know what you are going to get. I think he still has a big year he looks to be in shape. That's an extremely difficult front to run against. Teams are still going to still need to bring their safeties down against him though when they have more favorable matchups up front (which will be most weeks). His issue last year was fumbles that seemed to come out of nowhere (plus being out of shape).
Quote:
If Jones is helping the team score 29PPG, with limited turnovers, but we are losing, the blame is absolutely focused elsewhere.
I think it would go something like -- "Jones is the quarterback; they have more control over the game than any one position, he must overcome shortcomings elsewhere on the team."
I could see that. But at 29ppg, that's a very tough sell.
Agreed
Think harder then...
Quote:
In comment 15359177 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15358824 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
on whether a tight window throw down field that hits your receiver in the hands is a good or bad play by the QB.
This is the NFL and NFL WRs need to make that catch. You may have noticed the league doesn’t let receivers get lit up anymore. It was a good decision, a good throw, and a poor drop.
A bang bang play into triple coverage over the middle of the field is just not going to end in your favor more times than not. And it's not like Lamb is known for his secure hands or contested catch ability. He's a big-time YAC guy. If DJ made the same throw to Engram I'd say that was a bad decision. If it was something that was absolutely needed sure, but it wasn't even close to a crucial point in the game.
It was a perfect throw. Lamb dropped it. He was pissed at himself sitting on the bench after it happened.
He dropped it...and your bias against Dak is about you.
Of course he's pissed he dropped it, he's an NFL receiver. I don't have a bias against Dak either, like I said I like him and have been in his corner since he was a rookie. I just don't think paying him 40 million dollars was a wise move. He just doesn't get it done against elite defenses or win enough shootouts. The Cowboys have a stacked offense, so that's what it's going to take, and its up to the QB to get them there.
Dak did get them there, he put up almost 30 points and the lead with a minute to go. Should he play Corner too?
Any team that has a half-functioning offense just needs to get in FG range under two minutes with a timeout or two in their pocket is going to the vast majority of the game. They aren't going to win too many turnover battles this year like Thursday either.
Everyone is making a big deal about staying in it with Tampa, but the SB hangover is very real. I don't see a team that's going to win that many games and wouldn't be surprised if McCarthy is fired by the end of the year. I'm out, this thread bores me.
And not for nothing, Giant fans should never wish for McCarthy to be fired. Smarten up...
:-)