During most games the announcers always laud how great of an athlete he is meanwhile Giants fans are always "really"? Then in the days and weeks following the Giants spending spree on new weapons the Giants have, Engram was always described as this explosive weapon for Jones to work with, yet zero mention of his drops or lack of production from the year prior. In fact the one time I heard it mentioned was Brandon Marshall on First Things First saying he blames the Organization for Engram not reaching his potential saying there is something wrong mentally and blames the team not him. Then a few months ago he was ranked the 8th best TE and a coach said he'd be a superstar with the Chiefs. Again Giants fans in any forum were like "huh". So my question is why is there so much disconnect between the fans and the sports media whether it's NFL Network, ESPN, FS1.... when it comes to Engram. There is FAR more negativity from the media regarding Jones and I would argue he is hated far less by Giants fans.
He was directly involved in 2 loses last year.
Not saying its fair and I want him to help the Giants win games but he seems snake bit.
The same goes for the negative, outside takes. I pay it little mind.
To those who don't follow the team closely, you look at Engram's physique, you see how big he is for how fast he can run and you think this guy was built in a football factory. They may remember his very good rookie season or see that he actually made a pro bowl last year (which was a joke).
Little do they know he's inconsistent, injury prone, has a case of the dropsies, can't block and is generally not dependable.
I guess there's time left this year for him to prove us wrong.
I know, cheap shot, but really!?
Marshall is a bright young man who often has a lot of insight, but that this is the coach's fault is BS! Engram had inconsistent hands and injury problems while still in school, and the Giants got him at the end of a long line of coaching.
Sometimes what you see, is just what you get.
And Marshall really shouldn't be too loud about lack of production while a Giant.
But to answer your question, it's a lot easier to simply go with popular opinion and write your story in advance, than to actually do real reporting.
He can't help the team win when he's not on the field, and even when he is on the field, he's more of a liability than an asset.
(1) He gets hurt a lot.
(2) He's not consistent running routes/catching the football.
(3) He is a poor blocker.
I don't think it is just the media and fans who get seduced by his potential as an explosive player. I think our front office and now multiple coaching staffs do as well.
I'll stand by what I said 2/3 years back. He's a "coach killer."
What he isn't, is a football player...
He also happens to drop the ball too much.
It is a failing of the giants that he has to be the focal point of the offense for periods of times in his career.
He's not a 2 way player, but similar to JPP, or linval joseph etc when he is gone it is likely he will not be as easy to replace as we think.
Daboll and Shanahan could be in on it too.
:)
I think the Giants would have gotten more out of OJ Howard if we had a chance to get him over Engram.
Eric may be right; he may be a coach killer. Hard working, earnest, team oriented, good guy... but mistake-prone in games.
He also happens to drop the ball too much.
It is a failing of the giants that he has to be the focal point of the offense for periods of times in his career.
He's not a 2 way player, but similar to JPP, or linval joseph etc when he is gone it is likely he will not be as easy to replace as we think.
He should have been replaced this year via a trade for a middle round pick and drafted a rookie in 3rd or 4th round.
He wasn't because the Giants were outbidded for Hunter and then "settled" for Rudolph who they then found out needed foot surgery. So Engram stayed in place as an insurance policy in case Rudolph wasn't ready.
And in true Engram fashion, he gets hurt after playing about 25 snaps this entire preseason. How helpful.
He was a reach back in 2017, and hopefully he gets back on the field asap and kills it so the FO can talk up his trade value and shed him in late OCT before the deadline...
The worst thing he does is block, that is a killer when you have a young OL and your TE can't block. He makes you play 2 TE's to be successful. I am still amazed at that Booker 1 yard run at the goal line vs the Patriots 2 weeks ago. Literally all he had to do was stand in front of the 2nd team LB and Booker scores. Everyone else had a hat on a man. However he lets the guy go straight in front on him, a complete whiff, go down the LOS and hit Booker from the side. He couldn't hold him off for Booker to make 1 lousy yard.
Everyone sees that and cries about the OL, but the real fault there was on EE. Its a drive killer.
the media believes that engram is an amazing athlete. and he is.
the problem is he is an amazing athlete who just so happens to suck at playing football. the outside blames him sucking on the giants. but any giants fan knows that the giants aren't the problem and that engram just fucking sucks
There have been key drops, interceptions that have bounced off of his hands, interceptions caused by not running out a route, interceptions caused by letting the defender cut in front, run plays blown up by his missed blocks, and DJ interceptions/fumbles caused by missed blocks.
Seems like a hard worker and a good teammate. I think he took the Phili drop very hard last year. But I honestly think they are better off with him not playing. If he continues to sabotage, it's on Judge - not him.
(1) He gets hurt a lot.
(2) He's not consistent running routes/catching the football.
(3) He is a poor blocker.
I don't think it is just the media and fans who get seduced by his potential as an explosive player. I think our front office and now multiple coaching staffs do as well.
I'll stand by what I said 2/3 years back. He's a "coach killer."
Precisely. This will probably be his last year as a Giant.
+1
He would serve better as a WR .... not a TE. (imo)
(1) He gets hurt a lot.
(2) He's not consistent running routes/catching the football.
(3) He is a poor blocker.
I don't think it is just the media and fans who get seduced by his potential as an explosive player. I think our front office and now multiple coaching staffs do as well.
I'll stand by what I said 2/3 years back. He's a "coach killer."
He's the Gary Sanchez of the NFL.
There have been key drops, interceptions that have bounced off of his hands, interceptions caused by not running out a route, interceptions caused by letting the defender cut in front, run plays blown up by his missed blocks, and DJ interceptions/fumbles caused by missed blocks.
Seems like a hard worker and a good teammate. I think he took the Phili drop very hard last year. But I honestly think they are better off with him not playing. If he continues to sabotage, it's on Judge - not him.
This! Both can be true...he can suck and probably would've been better on another roster with better coaching. Stupid argument!
Engram's catch rate was 65% in 2019 and 70% in 2018. You can argue that it points to a downward trend in his reliability, but it's more likely that 2020 was an anomaly. Really the entire Giants offense was putrid last year - they weren't ranked 31st in league because of just one player.
But regardless, for fans of the team it's harder for us to move past those individual moments of let down within a game, whereas people on the outside look at a player and the season with a much wider lens.
Ok, what should fans get caught up with more? His penchant for causing turnovers, his awful blocking, the fact that he can't run a simple pick play with drawing a penalty, inconsistent route running?
take your pick...
He would/will be interesting to watch with other focal weapons around him... and lets start using what he IS.
Sorry, still makes me laugh.
Sorry, still makes me laugh.
I can top that standard.
"Could-be-next-Tony-Gonzalez-Engram"
Ridiculous take. You don't get drafted in the first round of the NFL Draft without having talent.
Engram's catch rate was 65% in 2019 and 70% in 2018. You can argue that it points to a downward trend in his reliability, but it's more likely that 2020 was an anomaly. Really the entire Giants offense was putrid last year - they weren't ranked 31st in league because of just one player.
But regardless, for fans of the team it's harder for us to move past those individual moments of let down within a game, whereas people on the outside look at a player and the season with a much wider lens.
In that case, what happened in 2020? Guy plays 16 games and his dropped pass percentage nearly doubles (he had 3 in 2019 and he played half the season, averages out to 6).
(1) He gets hurt a lot.
(2) He's not consistent running routes/catching the football.
(3) He is a poor blocker.
I don't think it is just the media and fans who get seduced by his potential as an explosive player. I think our front office and now multiple coaching staffs do as well.
I'll stand by what I said 2/3 years back. He's a "coach killer."
4) (And you said this, by the way, Eric.) He’s not a mentally tough football player. As soon as one or two bad plays happen, you can see the confidence flood out of his body.
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Engram is a great athlete, but he is not talented. He has below average hands and is a poor blocker (both technique and recognition). I don’t see how that makes him “talented.”
Ridiculous take. You don't get drafted in the first round of the NFL Draft without having talent.
Ridiculous take. Reese’s first round picks from 2012 on where disasters, and Engram never should have been drafted in the first round.
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11 drops in a single season is definitely an abnormally high number for a receiver, but even given that Engram still caught about 58% of the passes targeted to him - not horribly far off from Daniel Jones' 62.5% completion rate last year.
Engram's catch rate was 65% in 2019 and 70% in 2018. You can argue that it points to a downward trend in his reliability, but it's more likely that 2020 was an anomaly. Really the entire Giants offense was putrid last year - they weren't ranked 31st in league because of just one player.
But regardless, for fans of the team it's harder for us to move past those individual moments of let down within a game, whereas people on the outside look at a player and the season with a much wider lens.
In that case, what happened in 2020? Guy plays 16 games and his dropped pass percentage nearly doubles (he had 3 in 2019 and he played half the season, averages out to 6).
Someone on YouTube put together a reel of all of Engram's drops, and I took a look at that. I think in general Engram doesn't have the best hands, he's gonna drop an above average amount of balls every year regardless.
But in 2020, I'd say he had a about 4 passes that I would classify as straight drops - where the pass was good and there was no immediate contact with a defender. But on the other passes, either the pass was slightly off target or the defender made a good play on the ball.
If I had to narrow it down to one thing I'd say that Jones just tended to throw the ball a lot to Engram in tight coverage last year. It's likely due to play designs where Engram is meant to be the primary option (and Jones doesn't continue through his progression) or simply other receivers not getting any better separation. Either way I would expect to see improvements this year that should lead to fewer mishaps.
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In comment 15359178 sb from NYT Forum said:
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Engram is a great athlete, but he is not talented. He has below average hands and is a poor blocker (both technique and recognition). I don’t see how that makes him “talented.”
Ridiculous take. You don't get drafted in the first round of the NFL Draft without having talent.
Ridiculous take. Reese’s first round picks from 2012 on where disasters, and Engram never should have been drafted in the first round.
You said he's not talented. You double down on your ridiculous post. No offense, but your claim that Engram is devoid of talent is stupid. What the fuck does Reese's selections or any other selections have to do with your preposterous claim? I stand by my comment...Ridiculous take.
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In comment 15359181 KingBlue said:
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In comment 15359178 sb from NYT Forum said:
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Engram is a great athlete, but he is not talented. He has below average hands and is a poor blocker (both technique and recognition). I don’t see how that makes him “talented.”
Ridiculous take. You don't get drafted in the first round of the NFL Draft without having talent.
Ridiculous take. Reese’s first round picks from 2012 on where disasters, and Engram never should have been drafted in the first round.
You said he's not talented. You double down on your ridiculous post. No offense, but your claim that Engram is devoid of talent is stupid. What the fuck does Reese's selections or any other selections have to do with your preposterous claim? I stand by my comment...Ridiculous take.
Was this your quote? "You don't get drafted in the first round of the NFL Draft without having talent."
You are saying that the proof Engram is talented because Reese drafted in in the first round. That is beyond fucking stupid. Don't try to back away from your stupid analysis now, dumbass.
Reese drafted Engram because of measurables. He's done NOTHING since he was drafted to legitimize being picked in the first round.