Gettlemen gets crap for many of his bad selections, especially the OL. He took Thomas 4th overall and has so far underwhelmed. He's made plenty of bad picks, even going back to Carolina, and that track record is hard to ignore. Hopefully he proves everyone wrong this season. However is it more of a scouting problem? Yes, ultimately the GM is responsible, but if he's getting bad info, that affects his draft day decision making. And since we've had lineman issues the past 20 years, I'm wondering if they need to look hard at the scouting department. Or is it a coaching problem more than anything? And whoever we draft wouldn't progress because of coaching. Callahan went to Cleveland and transformed that line to a top 5 OL. We have our 3-4th OL coach in 2 years.
Or do we simply just have bad luck and the guys we draft and sign happen to fail?
All they did after was draft Wills and sign Conklin.
We went super pass happy in the preseason and I think it was to get the line reps in pass sets. I think a lot of this is overblown. Will they break down in pass blocking? I'm sure, but if we are moving people over at the point of attack getting Barkley out into space on the way to wins. The complaints will die down a bit. Some people won't rest until we have a top 3 OL unit though like thats some magic tick to a SB win (it's not, not even close, better to have elite skill players)
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Let them play a few games…
We went super pass happy in the preseason and I think it was to get the line reps in pass sets. I think a lot of this is overblown. Will they break down in pass blocking? I'm sure, but if we are moving people over at the point of attack getting Barkley out into space on the way to wins. The complaints will die down a bit. Some people won't rest until we have a top 3 OL unit though like thats some magic tick to a SB win (it's not, not even close, better to have elite skill players)
Dramatic to say the least. Nobody is demanding a top 3 OL unit.
Everybody is just tired of the top 31 unit.
As for the OP's direct question, I think the OL issues have been a perfect storm of poor scouting/GMing and coaching. And it's now infected the last two general manager regimes.
This, experience might just be all this unit needs hopefully. Remember back to the Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, Snee, McKenzie line. That was not the most talented group of players with the exception of Snee but that line played extremely well together after they became comfortable with one another.
Yes BB56. They are going to probably have some early rough outings. Would imagine things will calm down the more and more snaps they get under their belts and gain some confidence and continuity. Hopefully they can avoid any injuries and allow that to happen.
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Yes BB56. They are going to probably have some early rough outings. Would imagine things will calm down the more and more snaps they get under their belts and gain some confidence and continuity. Hopefully they can avoid any injuries and allow that to happen.
Yup. If one believe’s in Judge and I do, I’m going to give him and his staff the benefit of the doubt for now and trust that they really believe they have growing talent there. It might be painful for awhile
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In comment 15359404 Big Blue '56 said:
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Yes BB56. They are going to probably have some early rough outings. Would imagine things will calm down the more and more snaps they get under their belts and gain some confidence and continuity. Hopefully they can avoid any injuries and allow that to happen.
Yup. If one believe’s in Judge and I do, I’m going to give him and his staff the benefit of the doubt for now and trust that they really believe they have growing talent there. It might be painful for awhile
Imagine they will be ready to help support the tackles, even if it means being more conservative with play calls. Not what posters want to hear but it’s a long season and you want build guys up over time and not put undo pressure on them.
This is an organizational issue. For it to be bad for this long everything has to be bad, the scouting, the coaching, the player development plans etc….
Now, we’ve revamped our scouting department quite a bit over the last couple years and brought in new coaches, so maybe it turns around this year but for the past 10 they’ve done almost nothing right.
This is an organizational issue. For it to be bad for this long everything has to be bad, the scouting, the coaching, the player development plans etc….
Now, we’ve revamped our scouting department quite a bit over the last couple years and brought in new coaches, so maybe it turns around this year but for the past 10 they’ve done almost nothing right.
If we've revamped the scouting staff, it shouldn't take more than 1 cycle (2 at the very most) to get things right.
The Giants assembled a dominant unit in ‘05 — that looks more like an anomaly than a sound process.
The Giants assembled a dominant unit in ‘05 — that looks more like an anomaly than a sound process.
There's been a lot of talk about Chris Mara the past few years. Seems like no one really knows what he does. But if he's part of the problem, and John is serious about winning, John is the only one who can do anything about him.
Dramatic to say the least. Nobody is demanding a top 3 OL unit.
Everybody is just tired of the top 31 unit.
The second half of last year they were a middling unit, the histrionics need to stop here. I obviously expect them to struggle week 1 and 2, going up against some tremendous lines. If they struggle week 3 than I'll be joining everyone else with the pitchforks.
But Lorenzo Carter is going to breakout any day now
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In comment 15359396 Zeke's Alibi said:
Dramatic to say the least. Nobody is demanding a top 3 OL unit.
Everybody is just tired of the top 31 unit.
The second half of last year they were a middling unit, the histrionics need to stop here. I obviously expect them to struggle week 1 and 2, going up against some tremendous lines. If they struggle week 3 than I'll be joining everyone else with the pitchforks.
The histrionics seem to be yours.
And if they are at least a middling unit as you suggest, then why are you reaching for a pitchfork in September?
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But Lorenzo Carter is going to breakout any day now
I hope it's on a game day
For the OP- it's both.
In regards to DG, he's even admitted that he made an enormous mistake trying to win and rebuild simultaneously. That type of desperation may have led into taking risks rather than a better long-term plan of collecting different types of players and/or draft picks.
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In comment 15359398 chick310 said:
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In comment 15359396 Zeke's Alibi said:
Dramatic to say the least. Nobody is demanding a top 3 OL unit.
Everybody is just tired of the top 31 unit.
The second half of last year they were a middling unit, the histrionics need to stop here. I obviously expect them to struggle week 1 and 2, going up against some tremendous lines. If they struggle week 3 than I'll be joining everyone else with the pitchforks.
The histrionics seem to be yours.
And if they are at least a middling unit as you suggest, then why are you reaching for a pitchfork in September?
Because I don't expect them to struggle against Atlanta, thats why. If they do, they truly are a bottom of the barrel unit.
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Personnel has been absolute trash ever since he took on an executive role with the Giants. I question whether the scouts are worth a shit as well.
The Giants assembled a dominant unit in ‘05 — that looks more like an anomaly than a sound process.
There's been a lot of talk about Chris Mara the past few years. Seems like no one really knows what he does. But if he's part of the problem, and John is serious about winning, John is the only one who can do anything about him.
Chris was brought on in 10 and the results speak for themselves. Obviously he’s going to have a strong voice since he’s related to the owner, and obviously that’s going to hamstring anyone who may not agree with his opinion. This is why I hate it every time I hear Judge or Gettleman discussing personnel decisions as being “collaborative.”
3 of these starters were just drafted last year and Solder is coming back from a year off.
too early to make a judgement so just chill.
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In comment 15359470 Zeke's Alibi said:
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But Lorenzo Carter is going to breakout any day now
I hope it's on a game day
Yeah…. I was being sarcastic
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The weakness is obviously the line and some top edge guys, but top to bottom it's much better than it's been in a very long time. Can't remember the last time we had this type of depth.
But Lorenzo Carter is going to breakout any day now
I'm high on Carter this year. Big bounce back with 10+ sacks...
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In comment 15359466 Zeke's Alibi said:
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In comment 15359398 chick310 said:
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In comment 15359396 Zeke's Alibi said:
Dramatic to say the least. Nobody is demanding a top 3 OL unit.
Everybody is just tired of the top 31 unit.
The second half of last year they were a middling unit, the histrionics need to stop here. I obviously expect them to struggle week 1 and 2, going up against some tremendous lines. If they struggle week 3 than I'll be joining everyone else with the pitchforks.
The histrionics seem to be yours.
And if they are at least a middling unit as you suggest, then why are you reaching for a pitchfork in September?
Because I don't expect them to struggle against Atlanta, thats why. If they do, they truly are a bottom of the barrel unit.
But they are a middling unit per your post above?
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In comment 15359470 Zeke's Alibi said:
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The weakness is obviously the line and some top edge guys, but top to bottom it's much better than it's been in a very long time. Can't remember the last time we had this type of depth.
But Lorenzo Carter is going to breakout any day now
I'm high on Carter this year. Big bounce back with 10+ sacks...
Boy do I hope you’re right. I’ve heard his name so much for a guy who’s done whole lot of nothing.
Your lifetime? Are you 10?
With respect to free agency the pro personnel dept headed your Chris Mara sucks at evaluating pro OL free agents.
The depressing thing is that John Mara doesn’t have the Balls to clean out his front office.
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The weakness is obviously the line and some top edge guys, but top to bottom it's much better than it's been in a very long time. Can't remember the last time we had this type of depth.
Your lifetime? Are you 10?
Top to bottom, we had some stronger starters for sure in the Coughlin days, but I definitely wouldn't say this was a deep team in the last decade-plus. 2008-09 probably. The guys on the back half of the roster matter in a sport like football where injuries are part of the game. Most dudes that make the active game-day roster get some sort of significant playing time at some point.
But the human shield also makes the big bucks.He needs it too,because with all the holes in his clothes,it's easier to lose.
Do you think these players are being forced upon him? 4 draft picks from 2020 are starters this year, other picks from last year are big contributors.
FA - Martinez, Bradberry, Ryan
The Giants have 3 drafted second year guys on the oline. Last year was hard for many reasons, new coaching staff, covid reduced practice, injuries to offensive weapons- really who would have feared playing against that offense week 3 on? People calling the oline picks from last year as bad talent evaluations are jumping the gun. The jury may be still out but the Judge controls the court.
This team has question marks, of course, but it looks to be improving and hopefully it translates on the field into W’s this season. On the other hand maybe many of us have been fooled and Joe Judge will crash and burn.
When Ernie retired Chris Mara tried to make himself the GM but the Tisch family blocked him allegedly because they were worried if things went badly they couldn't remove him since HE OWNS THE TEAM. Somewhere either just before or just after the 2nd Eli Super Bowl the Mara's did the next best thing and make him basically Co GM without having to do any of the dirty work of dealing with agents or the media and no recourse to ever remove him unless he wants to leave.
How much or how little he's involved with picking the roster is never discussed unless he wants to take credit for not letting Coughlin cut Victor Cruz before the 2011 season or his daughter wants to take credit for drafting Ahmad Bradshaw.
Wellington and Ann Mara had 11 kids. All 11 own equal shares of the Giants. John is the oldest and he's the CEO and face of the family but I'm not sure how he could remove his brother even if he wanted to without starting a family war.
How much or how little he's involved with picking the roster is never discussed
His role in constantly discussed on BBI. But none of us actually know what it is
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How much or how little he's involved with picking the roster is never discussed
His role in constantly discussed on BBI. But none of us actually know what it is
Most likely just a nice title that comes with a huge pay check - you know, family business- he acts like he’s involved and those around him brown nose a little but when push comes to shove the last thing he wants is to be the guy that can be at fault.
The article had some interesting stuff.I believe he was texting back and fourth with the Giant War Room.Giving recommendations on who to draft.
we seem to have more pieces than before that could be something good, but they need to play together
Being involved in a family business my entire life, all I can say is it truly sucks.
This is an organizational issue. For it to be bad for this long everything has to be bad, the scouting, the coaching, the player development plans etc….
Now, we’ve revamped our scouting department quite a bit over the last couple years and brought in new coaches, so maybe it turns around this year but for the past 10 they’ve done almost nothing right.
Best answer given on this thread. No need to be redundant.
Then when it was terrible the two high picks Pugh and Richburg were just ok and always injured. Then the FA's in recent years were misses.
The CBA has really impacted things. I think you need to identify developmental traits and bring in volume. Give a year and see it they will develop. If not cut bait. But you need more volume with picks after round 3/UDFA.
I think the most important evaluator may be a outstanding OL coach who is very involved in the process.
I’m really curious to see how they perform this year. I’d agree that “on paper”, doesn’t feel like a strong unit. But maybe Judge and Rob Sale and the small army of OL coaches he’s brought in can start making a difference.
I believe he owns just under half, like 49%. But even with only John siding with him, they would be a majority