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NGT - Rashawn Slater's debut today...

bw in dc : 9/12/2021 9:10 pm
I mentioned this on the 1pm games thread. I specifically watched LAC v WFT to iso on Slater to see how he would deal with a very good WFT DL. And I must say he didn't disappoint.

Was up to the task in pass protection - did not allow a sack - and showed some good movement in the run game.

I have a feeling Chase Young is glad Slater doesn't play in the NFCE... ;)
Let's see where the Bears finish  
Matt in SGS : 9/12/2021 9:14 pm : link
before passing judgement. If that turns into a top 3-5 pick, they might get someone more impactful than Slater.
Slater  
AcidTest : 9/12/2021 9:15 pm : link
was not available at #20, which means that we would have to pass on the trade with Bears to take him. It's also likely he wouldn't have been the pick anyway at #11. AVT was more likely according to the asshats.
RE: Let's see where the Bears finish  
crick n NC : 9/12/2021 9:15 pm : link
In comment 15363078 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
before passing judgement. If that turns into a top 3-5 pick, they might get someone more impactful than Slater.


Yep
RE: Let's see where the Bears finish  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/12/2021 9:17 pm : link
In comment 15363078 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
before passing judgement. If that turns into a top 3-5 pick, they might get someone more impactful than Slater.


Don’t be such an asshole and bring logic and reason into this
If Slater has a good year...  
bw in dc : 9/12/2021 9:18 pm : link
and shows that he's going to cement Justin Herbert's blind side for 5-10 years, it's going to take one helluva a pick next year to be of equal value.

And the guy can play EVERY position on the OL. Just think about that...
I know how desperately you need to indict  
Grizz99 : 9/12/2021 9:18 pm : link
But there were blemishes and doubts. Many qualified people felt his future was at guard. Penei Sewell was the sure thing and, by most counts, he's had a horrible pre-season.
So it's a crap shoot, we know that, we say that, but we don't accept it.
It was Toney and a no 1 (likely a top ten) or Slater or any of the lineman clustered together there.
I think any fair minded person takes Toney and the no.1.
RE: Slater  
bw in dc : 9/12/2021 9:22 pm : link
In comment 15363081 AcidTest said:
Quote:
was not available at #20, which means that we would have to pass on the trade with Bears to take him. It's also likely he wouldn't have been the pick anyway at #11. AVT was more likely according to the asshats.


Well, maybe we made a poor trade. And maybe if Slater wasn't high on the list at Jints Central, that's also another miss in the evaluation process.

The Chargers added water and stirred - and Slater is their stud LT starter.

Right now - what would you rather have? This stud LT or Toney and another unknown pick for the Bears?
I think one game is a bit premature for  
Kanavis : 9/12/2021 9:27 pm : link
declarations of a 'stud' player. It's a 3 year evaluation and a lot of it is luck. Thomas actually played very well today.

The Giant problems go far beyond whether they should have picked one player or the other. As much as the front office (or Judge to the extent that he is involved) have messed up some of the picks, I think it's important that the organization, regardless of what they say, is not sold on Jones.

The trade back was probably about having capital just in case Jones does not work out. It may be by mid-season, we will be grateful for the pick and will need to spend it...and a lot more....to get the next QB.

What we saw today goes far beyond Slater...we have a talented defense that couldn't seem to place themselves in the vicinity of the opposing players.
RE: RE: Slater  
WillVAB : 9/12/2021 9:29 pm : link
In comment 15363116 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15363081 AcidTest said:


Quote:


was not available at #20, which means that we would have to pass on the trade with Bears to take him. It's also likely he wouldn't have been the pick anyway at #11. AVT was more likely according to the asshats.



Well, maybe we made a poor trade. And maybe if Slater wasn't high on the list at Jints Central, that's also another miss in the evaluation process.

The Chargers added water and stirred - and Slater is their stud LT starter.

Right now - what would you rather have? This stud LT or Toney and another unknown pick for the Bears?


Next draft they’ll likely be in a position to draft an elite edge rusher and an elite OL prospect. Right now I think I’d rather have the picks.
RE: I think one game is a bit premature for  
bw in dc : 9/12/2021 9:47 pm : link
In comment 15363129 Kanavis said:
Quote:
declarations of a 'stud' player. It's a 3 year evaluation and a lot of it is luck. Thomas actually played very well today.

The Giant problems go far beyond whether they should have picked one player or the other. As much as the front office (or Judge to the extent that he is involved) have messed up some of the picks, I think it's important that the organization, regardless of what they say, is not sold on Jones.

The trade back was probably about having capital just in case Jones does not work out. It may be by mid-season, we will be grateful for the pick and will need to spend it...and a lot more....to get the next QB.

What we saw today goes far beyond Slater...we have a talented defense that couldn't seem to place themselves in the vicinity of the opposing players.


I don't care of Thomas looked good today. Slater would have looked better than everyone else on our OL. And that's the point - we needed more talent on the OL. But we didn't address it in either free agency (when the real talent was available) or in the draft.

Yes, I may be a little aggressive with my praise of Slater. But taking on the WFT DL in their backyard, and not allowing a sack on their franchise QB, is quite a start...
RE: RE: RE: Slater  
bw in dc : 9/12/2021 9:48 pm : link
In comment 15363134 WillVAB said:
Quote:

Next draft they’ll likely be in a position to draft an elite edge rusher and an elite OL prospect. Right now I think I’d rather have the picks.


Depends who is making the picks, too... ;)
At this point I don’t trust dg to  
greek13 : 9/12/2021 9:51 pm : link
Make the right pick no matter what we have … his arrogance about the OL
Is palpable and the whole world knows we need OL and pass rush - I think we’ve said that for a few years - and yet … even when he tried - he whiffed - I hope O turns out to be a good edge player - he showed some energy today
RE: RE: I think one game is a bit premature for  
Kanavis : 9/12/2021 9:54 pm : link
In comment 15363214 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15363129 Kanavis said:


Quote:


declarations of a 'stud' player. It's a 3 year evaluation and a lot of it is luck. Thomas actually played very well today.

The Giant problems go far beyond whether they should have picked one player or the other. As much as the front office (or Judge to the extent that he is involved) have messed up some of the picks, I think it's important that the organization, regardless of what they say, is not sold on Jones.

The trade back was probably about having capital just in case Jones does not work out. It may be by mid-season, we will be grateful for the pick and will need to spend it...and a lot more....to get the next QB.

What we saw today goes far beyond Slater...we have a talented defense that couldn't seem to place themselves in the vicinity of the opposing players.



I don't care of Thomas looked good today. Slater would have looked better than everyone else on our OL. And that's the point - we needed more talent on the OL. But we didn't address it in either free agency (when the real talent was available) or in the draft.

Yes, I may be a little aggressive with my praise of Slater. But taking on the WFT DL in their backyard, and not allowing a sack on their franchise QB, is quite a start...


I agree that they really should have addressed OL. You are correct. But what we saw today goes far beyond simply drafting Slater. Weay need the picks for a QB. Having Slater wouldn't have changed that. I think the fault lies with ignoring the OL through the rest of the draft and FA
I wanted Slater where we picked  
AcesUp : 9/12/2021 9:54 pm : link
But that was a good trade. It's not fair to walk that back. Process over execution and the process was sound.

The arguments against Slater on this board pre-draft were dumb though.
LOL  
BleedBlue : 9/12/2021 10:07 pm : link
you just HATE the giants. you are calling a guy a STUD after one fucking game. what is toney becomes a stud? toney and a first rounder or slater? You just LOVE to play any angle to shit on the giants. its fucking sad and at this point its clear, youre a jerkoff troll here to rile people up. again, ill play wait and see before making this declaration. You act like giants passed on bosselli or some shit. slater was a flawed prospect and several other teams agreed. enough with your bullshit
RE: At this point I don’t trust dg to  
BleedBlue : 9/12/2021 10:09 pm : link
In comment 15363235 greek13 said:
Quote:
Make the right pick no matter what we have … his arrogance about the OL
Is palpable and the whole world knows we need OL and pass rush - I think we’ve said that for a few years - and yet … even when he tried - he whiffed - I hope O turns out to be a good edge player - he showed some energy today


he invested several picks into OL. giants didnt ignore it. they made a ton of moves to improve it. honestly i saw one or two instances where OL was trash...todays loss in my opinion is on the defense, graham and garrett. the playcalling in redzone is pathetic. I draw up a better offense in redzone with my 7-9 flag football team. graham was taken to school today. defense looked awful. we couldnt stop shit, tons of blown coverages, etc. we legit couldnt get off the field and get the offense on it for enough attempts...
RE: LOL  
bw in dc : 9/12/2021 10:12 pm : link
In comment 15363302 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
you just HATE the giants. you are calling a guy a STUD after one fucking game. what is toney becomes a stud? toney and a first rounder or slater? You just LOVE to play any angle to shit on the giants. its fucking sad and at this point its clear, youre a jerkoff troll here to rile people up. again, ill play wait and see before making this declaration. You act like giants passed on bosselli or some shit. slater was a flawed prospect and several other teams agreed. enough with your bullshit


I may be putting the cart before the horse a bit here. That's fair. But I suggest you watch some of the LAC/WFT game first. Slater is the LT, #70. And if you have any objectivity, and even remotely understand the game, you'll see why I am so effusive with praise on Slater already...

As for everything else you said, I suggest you look at the team's record the last decade.
No  
Grizz99 : 9/12/2021 10:22 pm : link
It is easy and even seductive to be "result" orientated, but it's not fair and not accurate.
You have to judge by the inforamtion available at the time the decision was made. And Slater was not the sure fire answer at the time. He was supposedly flawed and even a little light in the pants. It's Sewell that was the sure prospect and if "flawed" is better than "near perfect", well that happens.
Toney and Chi's no. 1 was the right call - no matter how it turns out.
RE: No  
bw in dc : 9/12/2021 10:41 pm : link
In comment 15363343 Grizz99 said:
Quote:
It is easy and even seductive to be "result" orientated, but it's not fair and not accurate.
You have to judge by the inforamtion available at the time the decision was made. And Slater was not the sure fire answer at the time. He was supposedly flawed and even a little light in the pants. It's Sewell that was the sure prospect and if "flawed" is better than "near perfect", well that happens.
Toney and Chi's no. 1 was the right call - no matter how it turns out.


I suggest you read what Daniel Jeremiah wrote about Slater. He had Slater ranked the #1 OL in the 2021 draft.
Slater  
AcesUp : 9/12/2021 10:46 pm : link
Has athleticism and produced against good competition in college. I'm not a scout or even close but there's a forest through the trees thing going on with guys like him and Wirfs. Giants need to figure out how they're evaluating OL.
RE: RE: Let's see where the Bears finish  
barens : 9/12/2021 10:55 pm : link
In comment 15363091 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
In comment 15363078 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


before passing judgement. If that turns into a top 3-5 pick, they might get someone more impactful than Slater.



Don’t be such an asshole and bring logic and reason into this


Uh, logic and reason? No offense, but that doesn’t pass as logic and reason. So far, our current first round pick has given us more reason for concern, while our team struggles mightily. And the logic is we may get a top 3 pick to ease our struggles next year??

RE: Slater  
bw in dc : 9/12/2021 10:59 pm : link
In comment 15363402 AcesUp said:
Quote:
Has athleticism and produced against good competition in college. I'm not a scout or even close but there's a forest through the trees thing going on with guys like him and Wirfs. Giants need to figure out how they're evaluating OL.


Well, he didn't have ideal arm length... ;)
As long as its the same people scouting and making the picks  
widmerseyebrow : 9/12/2021 11:05 pm : link
Then future picks arent worth as much as they should be. We've had plenty of high picks the last 10 years.
RE: RE: Slater  
AcesUp : 9/12/2021 11:12 pm : link
In comment 15363422 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15363402 AcesUp said:


Quote:


Has athleticism and produced against good competition in college. I'm not a scout or even close but there's a forest through the trees thing going on with guys like him and Wirfs. Giants need to figure out how they're evaluating OL.



Well, he didn't have ideal arm length... ;)


Why would we draft a GUARD that early??
Giants incapable of evaluating OL talent  
Rick in Dallas : 9/12/2021 11:23 pm : link
And that’s the bottom line. It was so obvious watching game film of the college prospects over the last 2 years that the most ready OL prospects ready to play in the NFL were Wirfs and Slater.
But all the NFL talent evaluators on BBI said otherwise.
So now we continue to deal with an OL unable to control the LOS. But hey we have 2 first round draft choices in 2022. These knuckleheads will screw up those draft choices also…just wait and see.
RE: RE: RE: Slater  
eli4life : 9/13/2021 2:59 am : link
In comment 15363134 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 15363116 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15363081 AcidTest said:


Quote:


was not available at #20, which means that we would have to pass on the trade with Bears to take him. It's also likely he wouldn't have been the pick anyway at #11. AVT was more likely according to the asshats.



Well, maybe we made a poor trade. And maybe if Slater wasn't high on the list at Jints Central, that's also another miss in the evaluation process.

The Chargers added water and stirred - and Slater is their stud LT starter.

Right now - what would you rather have? This stud LT or Toney and another unknown pick for the Bears?



Next draft they’ll likely be in a position to draft an elite edge rusher and an elite OL prospect. Right now I think I’d rather have the picks.


If we are in a position for an elite oline and an elite edge with both firsts then one of those picks I’m sorry to say will have to be a qb
Slater would have helped us a lot, but I never would have turned down  
Ira : 9/13/2021 3:49 am : link
that trade with Chicago.
RE: RE: Slater  
section125 : 9/13/2021 6:46 am : link
In comment 15363116 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15363081 AcidTest said:


Quote:


was not available at #20, which means that we would have to pass on the trade with Bears to take him. It's also likely he wouldn't have been the pick anyway at #11. AVT was more likely according to the asshats.



Well, maybe we made a poor trade. And maybe if Slater wasn't high on the list at Jints Central, that's also another miss in the evaluation process.

The Chargers added water and stirred - and Slater is their stud LT starter.

Right now - what would you rather have? This stud LT or Toney and another unknown pick for the Bears?


People like you are a blight on this site. Rookie has one decent game and he is all world. IIRC Thomas stoned Young last year. Now you want to declare victory and move on.

We do not know what Toney will do just like we do not know what Slater will do. Then there is that pesky #1 pick. (BTW, Bears did not look like garbage yesterday, so a mid round pick seems likely and not a top 3)
Slater...  
bw in dc : 9/13/2021 12:42 pm : link
had an 86 PFF rating yesterday.

Guy was on it.
RE: RE: RE: Slater  
bw in dc : 9/13/2021 12:43 pm : link
In comment 15363683 section125 said:
Quote:

People like you are a blight on this site. Rookie has one decent game and he is all world. IIRC Thomas stoned Young last year. Now you want to declare victory and move on.

We do not know what Toney will do just like we do not know what Slater will do. Then there is that pesky #1 pick. (BTW, Bears did not look like garbage yesterday, so a mid round pick seems likely and not a top 3)


I'm not saying Slater should have been taken to replace Thomas. I'm saying we should have taken Slater because he would have UPGRADED the entire OL.

Capiche?
I'm glad we didn't pick Slater  
Heisenberg : 9/13/2021 12:54 pm : link
because there's a better than average chance we have to use that Bears pick to move up to get a franchise QB.
RE: I'm glad we didn't pick Slater  
bw in dc : 9/13/2021 12:58 pm : link
In comment 15364526 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
because there's a better than average chance we have to use that Bears pick to move up to get a franchise QB.


Well, therein lies the potential big problem. Because I'm not so sure there is a QB in the '22 class who should be a high investment to be a franchise QB.
If We Don’t Take Slater at 11th Pick  
Samiam : 9/13/2021 1:04 pm : link
We should have taken Fields. That aside, picture the offensive line this year with Wirfs and Slater as bookend tackles. Isn’t Gettleman supposed to be an expert on drafting OLs. I’ll say this. Peart and Toney better be good football players.
Slater looked pretty good, and I am sure his rookie year  
Jimmy Googs : 9/13/2021 1:07 pm : link
and thereafter will be tracked to some degree, as will Justin Fields. Particularly based on what happens with Toney and how that extra #1 is used next year.

More importantly as noted by Rick above, there is enough evidence at this point to fairly support the process by which the NY Giants scout/assess offensive lineman is a flawed one. And not just at the college level but also at the NFL one.

And it's indisputable...
it's very valid  
santacruzom : 9/13/2021 1:09 pm : link
to be concerned that the Giants will just turn two #1 picks into two embarrassing mistakes, sure. But I'd still rather have the picks. We have a lot of holes to address and Slater only addresses one. With competence (sigh...) we could address two with elite players.
I know this is hard after yesterday  
Jim in Forest Hills : 9/13/2021 1:10 pm : link
but the book is not written on Peart, not yet.
I wonder if bw  
PwndPapi : 9/13/2021 1:12 pm : link
has lobbied NYG to make other selections. Perhaps some that have busted. I don't know. Someone like Will Grier. Will we be starting threads about those guys as well?
RE: If We Don’t Take Slater at 11th Pick  
trueblueinpw : 9/13/2021 1:13 pm : link
In comment 15364563 Samiam said:
Quote:
We should have taken Fields. That aside, picture the offensive line this year with Wirfs and Slater as bookend tackles. Isn’t Gettleman supposed to be an expert on drafting OLs. I’ll say this. Peart and Toney better be good football players.


Exactly. I think there’s a strong case to be made for drafting a QB whenever you aren’t sure whether or not you have a legit franchise QB. Now, I don’t know that this is something any NFL team ever does, and maybe that’s because it’s a lousy idea, but I sure as heck would have liked to have seen Fields and Jones battling it out in camp.

Having said all that, I was happy to see Getty trade back and I think we’re going to need that pick for yet another rebuild next year.
I’ve been worried not selecting Fields will in retrospect  
cosmicj : 9/13/2021 1:32 pm : link
Look like a big mistake.

Taking a QB next year: you don’t have to trade up to get a great QB. Rodgers and Mahomes were taken later than where the first of our picks will likely fall.
So let’s use those 2 first round draft choices for another rebuild??  
Rick in Dallas : 9/13/2021 1:42 pm : link
How many rebuilds do you want to go through before we start winning??
You all trust this front office???Not me.
Honestly, give me Wirfs and Slater in the last 2 drafts and you have POTENTIAL all pro OT ‘s for the next 10 years to protect your QB and open holes for your RB SB that you used a number 2 draft choice in in 2018.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Toney and Thomas on different teams. Thomas got a break yesterday not facing Chubb. Let’s see how he does against Sweat and Young.
I’m going to stop discussing our current OL for the rest of the year.
I will watch college ball OL for the rest of the year to see who might be able to help us next year at RT that is a turn type right now.
Go Giants!!!!
RE: I wonder if bw  
bw in dc : 9/13/2021 1:48 pm : link
In comment 15364584 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
has lobbied NYG to make other selections. Perhaps some that have busted. I don't know. Someone like Will Grier. Will we be starting threads about those guys as well?


Yes, I liked Grier. And?

It's not my job to be right. It's Gettleman's.

And based on his performance to date, I could throw darts at names on a board and probably have a better hit rate.
RE: So let’s use those 2 first round draft choices for another rebuild??  
Angel Eyes : 9/13/2021 1:49 pm : link
In comment 15364657 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
How many rebuilds do you want to go through before we start winning??
You all trust this front office???Not me.
Honestly, give me Wirfs and Slater in the last 2 drafts and you have POTENTIAL all pro OT ‘s for the next 10 years to protect your QB and open holes for your RB SB that you used a number 2 draft choice in in 2018.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Toney and Thomas on different teams. Thomas got a break yesterday not facing Chubb. Let’s see how he does against Sweat and Young.
I’m going to stop discussing our current OL for the rest of the year.
I will watch college ball OL for the rest of the year to see who might be able to help us next year at RT that is a turn type right now.
Go Giants!!!!

I'm watching college football for the edge rushers myself.
RE: RE: I wonder if bw  
PwndPapi : 9/13/2021 2:20 pm : link
In comment 15364668 bw in dc said:
Quote:

Yes, I liked Grier. And?

It's not my job to be right. It's Gettleman's.

And based on his performance to date, I could throw darts at names on a board and probably have a better hit rate.


Yeah. Call me skeptical. We all think we're maven talent evaluaters. Fact of the matter is, we're all sitting on our sofas come day days because we're not.
and just so we're clear...  
PwndPapi : 9/13/2021 2:24 pm : link
This is what the immortal Will Grier has accomplished in his stellar career:

Career NFL statistics as of Week 17, 2020
TD–INT: 0–4
Passing yards: 228
Completion percentage: 53.9
Passer rating: 33.2
Rushing yards: 22

Grier is third-stringer on his second team hasn't thrown a regular season pass since 2019.
RE: and just so we're clear...  
bw in dc : 9/13/2021 4:09 pm : link
In comment 15364776 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
This is what the immortal Will Grier has accomplished in his stellar career:

Career NFL statistics as of Week 17, 2020
TD–INT: 0–4
Passing yards: 228
Completion percentage: 53.9
Passer rating: 33.2
Rushing yards: 22

Grier is third-stringer on his second team hasn't thrown a regular season pass since 2019.


Yes, he's hardly played.
RE: it's very valid  
bw in dc : 9/13/2021 4:12 pm : link
In comment 15364576 santacruzom said:
Quote:
to be concerned that the Giants will just turn two #1 picks into two embarrassing mistakes, sure. But I'd still rather have the picks. We have a lot of holes to address and Slater only addresses one. With competence (sigh...) we could address two with elite players.


I see it both ways. I get the hedge having both picks, especially if Jones isn't the answer.

But really good OLs are difficult to find. So if you can grab one like Slater, I'm all in these days.

RE: RE: and just so we're clear...  
PwndPapi : 9/13/2021 4:42 pm : link
In comment 15365052 bw in dc said:
Quote:

Yes, he's hardly played.


Because he's too good. Need to make the games competitive.
RE: Slater  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/13/2021 4:48 pm : link
In comment 15363081 AcidTest said:
Quote:
was not available at #20, which means that we would have to pass on the trade with Bears to take him. It's also likely he wouldn't have been the pick anyway at #11. AVT was more likely according to the asshats.

Maybe it's time that we stop eliminating guys from hindsight discussions simply because they weren't on our radar when we were picking.

Our scouts and personnel execs suck. The simple fact that a player might not have been in play when we were selecting should no longer be considered a reason to stop discussing that player. If anything, given how bad we've been and how long we've been this bad, we should pay particular attention to the players who asshats have indicated are not of interest. Chances are, those are the good players.
I think last year this thread was about Mekhi Becton  
GmanND : 9/13/2021 5:28 pm : link
How's that looking today? Maybe give it more than one game to see how your proclamations pan out...
RE: I think last year this thread was about Mekhi Becton  
bw in dc : 9/13/2021 5:59 pm : link
In comment 15365194 GmanND said:
Quote:
How's that looking today? Maybe give it more than one game to see how your proclamations pan out...


I was not a Becton guy. Wrong poster.
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