but it should have got the defense to do better. After all,he is your qb running well and gets tackled hard for first time in months and surprise he gives up the ball. Defense should have risen up to shove it down broncos throat rather than let them always have an open receiver on 3rd and long.
You can’t have Jones playing “afraid to lose”.,his aggressive style running and throwing must be encouraged and the rest of the team must rise up to join it. If Garrett/JJ can’t get that across then we will have big problems.
hear me out. denver turned ball over in redzone....they won. turnovers dont ALWAYS cost the game. we only had 1. see my previous comment on this thread. they matter sure but good teams overcome them. our defense had ZERO answers to overcome the turnover and our offense isnt pwoerful enough at this point
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read this to know it is an awful take. Turnovers matter for a reason. Momentum is everything, AND IN THE REDZONE AGAIN!
hear me out. denver turned ball over in redzone....they won. turnovers dont ALWAYS cost the game. we only had 1. see my previous comment on this thread. they matter sure but good teams overcome them. our defense had ZERO answers to overcome the turnover and our offense isnt pwoerful enough at this point
the defense looked like dogshit, sure, but the offense scored seven points all game. SEVEN. one big pass play then they go backwards. gutsy drive into the redzone and jones decides to try and muscle his way through two defenders for an extra yard and fumbles.
that the defense sucked ass does not obviate the fact that the offense looked completely impotent.
It is the same thing going back to the start of the game. Did Garrett's call for a Jet Sweep to KT, lose the game for us? NO, BUT, it changed the momentum, the possible score, the field position and from there altered everything.
DJ's fumble was the one piece that was 100% on him and a bad play. The fact that he has a history of this makes it bigger but in the game itself, this was a shitty play by DJ and killed the offense and the game itself at that point.
The air was let out of the building when Teddy avoided a tackle and somehow threw that TD to who knows who. Surprisingly, Blake didn’t wrap him up and make the tackle before he got in.
That was the point I lost it. We went from up 7-3 to down 17-7 in two drives. The defense sucked most of the game…it would have been worse had they not fumbled on the 4 yard line.
I agree….I want Jones to take off…he is very good in doing that….just needs to learn to carry the ball safer.
As for Garrett’s calls in the red zone….he is not the man for the job. Unfortunately, I think JJ’s hands are tied. I’m not sure JJ can fire him. Garrett is family to the Maras.
It killed a drive, it took the offense off the field, it put the defense back onto the field, it took points off the board, it changed momentum.
How did it not change the game?
This series sums up the Jones-Garrett offense.
It's Jones's fault Garrett ran a reverse then a 2nd and long draw play? Odd to include him in that series of events when the only reason they made it down there was his shot down the field. In fact, they should be taking more of those. He's got the weapon for it now and has the arm to make it work.
When he runs and makes contact (and I do not understand why) I am just waiting for a injury and or fumble. Wonder if the team feels the same way?
How did DJ not lose the game VS what did he do to win the game?
Did you see how many time Jones forced the ball into covered receivers and was almost intercepted? Especially by the goal line? Other receivers have space but he's so locked to one receiver that he never sees them.
did you also notice the same old 5-6yard routes? Yes it's true he did force a few, but dammit you have all these new guys so you stretch the field, so STRETCH THE FUCKING FIELD. Its so frustrating to watch.
That was one; Ojulari whiffed on a similar play (or was it the same one?) where he attempts to tackle, Bridgewater dodges, and gets a first down with a pass.
That shit matters late in a 17-7 game. Play calls significantly change in a one possession game vs a two possession game.
They should have "tried harder" because poor DJ got hit hard for the first time since last year and fumbled? What kind of bullshit is that, lol
The difference is that Martinez missing tackles is not a recurring problem throughout his career. Jones' fumbling is.
How did DJ not lose the game VS what did he do to win the game?
The bar for Jones gets lowered every week. For some he can only be criticized if he was the worst player on the field. If anyone in a Giants uniform - or polo shirt - was worse, then nothing is his fault.
He was selected #6 overall and is in year 3 in the league. It's time for the bar to be higher than "someone else on the field may have been worse."
And it's not likely that they score a TD on that drive even without the fumble. The Giants aren't exactly red zone savants.
He was selected #6 overall and is in year 3 in the league. It's time for the bar to be higher than "someone else on the field may have been worse."
100% agree with Mike here. Jones has, to this point, been very underwhelming for a #6 overall pick. What's particularly galling is that he continues to show the same negatives that he has already - fumbling, poor coverage recognition, staring down one receiver. By year three, you'd like to see some improvement in those areas. Hasn't happened, and I don't blame anyone for questioning if it will ever happen at all.
I'm not sure what Jones has done other than wear a jersey for people to say things like turnovers in a close game don't matter.
When he starts throwing 3 TDs a game, then you can tolerate a fumble or two.
I've been open to Jones being our franchise QB. Up until that play. Not SOLD on it, but open to it. Hopeful it could work. His rookie year (turnovers aside) earned him at least some leash, and a very disappointing sophomore season got at least some mulligans based on Saquon/new scheme/new coaches/no line/no preseason. That's a tough set up. Even though he was an abject failure.
But what I saw from him yesterday was extremely concerning. Extremely concerning. He does some good things still. He does. He's not completely without any talent whatsoever. But that fumble wasn't him getting bum-rushed by Von Miller over a cemented-in-place Peart and then fumbling cause he got crushed. This was a back-breaking fumble that simply DID NOT HAVE TO HAPPEN. Every franchise guy out there (Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, even Stafford) slides at 7 yards there and heads back to the huddle. Jones dives headfirst, risking injury, being converged on by multiple defenders. It's just not a winning play. It's reckless and it cost us.
And in that play, I just saw it clearly. He does make some plays. But he doesn't make winning plays. A few minutes later I watched him stare down all of his receivers for four straight red zone plays in a row. He is a good athlete but he doesn't have "it". Three years is an eternity in football. He isn't savvy and he's not a winner. He's clunky and he loses.
Of course, we finish the year with him (provided he doesn't get ripped to shreds diving headfirst again). But it's time, guys. Time to plan on throwing in the towel and going back to the drawing board at QB.
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read this to know it is an awful take. Turnovers matter for a reason. Momentum is everything, AND IN THE REDZONE AGAIN!
hear me out. denver turned ball over in redzone....they won. turnovers dont ALWAYS cost the game. we only had 1. see my previous comment on this thread. they matter sure but good teams overcome them. our defense had ZERO answers to overcome the turnover and our offense isnt pwoerful enough at this point
Turnovers don't always cost the game. That is true, but when your offense can only put up 7 points in 50+ minutes then it's safe to say that turnovers in the Red Zone is a game changer. If the Giants score there the game is 14 -17 and who knows how the game would have unfolded after that point.
And how many points did those teams score?
It might be possible because many of the other QBs you are alluding to, actually possess the ability to engineer multiple scoring drives throughout the game to offset a turnover.
We scored 13 points.
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often enough. As a result, the offense doesn't get enough drives.
We scored 13 points.
Right...and they punted TWICE.
Biggest play of the game was the 4th & 2 conversion on the Broncos final drive of the half. It was an insane thing to do that showed virtually zero respect for the Giants offense or defense.
When he runs and makes contact (and I do not understand why) I am just waiting for a injury and or fumble. Wonder if the team feels the same way?
It was a huge play. No doubt about.
Yes I defended him. Yes I defended the pick. And I am done defending Jones until PPG increases. 13 fucking points. Until PPG increases, I can't bring myself to excuse one single mistake. Jones is gun shy. He's scared to make a play. He fumbles nearly every time he runs and dives for yardage. He can't read a defense to save his fucking life. He's bad. He hasn't improved at all. Yea he's accurate when he plants his feet and has time to throw. They all are.
And his fumble most definitely took a game that was in trouble and turned that game into OVER. It was as bad a fumble you can find from a QB.
When he runs and makes contact (and I do not understand why) I am just waiting for a injury and or fumble. Wonder if the team feels the same way?
Giants were losing 17-7 at the time the Jones fumble occured.
The last TD was only 6 if I remember correctly they didn't even kick the XP lol what are worthless drive if you're not even going to go for two...
We said the same thing when it happened. Jones didn't really take a hit on the ball or arms on this play yesterday, did he? Not sure I have seen a replay.
The fumble was awful, brutal, but there are no opportunities for jones to make up for those mistakes. Tampa had 4 turnovers to Dallas' 1 on Thursday and they still put up 31 points. They played aggressively and pushed the ball downfield. They didn't run it up the middle for 2 yards every first down. They didnt play like they were trying to get to a managable 3rd down. And they won.
They just didn't play. He didn't say he wasn't talking about college football teams.
This is simple math. There are 32 teams that played this weekend in the NFL. If 24 of them didn't win, it means only 8 did. So 8 teams beat 24 teams.
You didn't see the Saints beat the Packers, Lions and Giants on Sunday?
You probably also missed Tampa beating the Cowboys/Vikings/Falcons.
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It killed a likely scoring drive of what was still a close game.
It killed a drive, it took the offense off the field, it put the defense back onto the field, it took points off the board, it changed momentum.
How did it not change the game?
I imagine I'm not the only fan who was completely deflated by the play due to the futility it presented. I.e. even if we get into scoring position, our QB is equally as likely to take us out of it as he is to deliver.
Is it crazy to think the other Giants' players are affected similarly? I don't think so.
I've been open to Jones being our franchise QB. Up until that play. Not SOLD on it, but open to it. Hopeful it could work. His rookie year (turnovers aside) earned him at least some leash, and a very disappointing sophomore season got at least some mulligans based on Saquon/new scheme/new coaches/no line/no preseason. That's a tough set up. Even though he was an abject failure.
But what I saw from him yesterday was extremely concerning. Extremely concerning. He does some good things still. He does. He's not completely without any talent whatsoever. But that fumble wasn't him getting bum-rushed by Von Miller over a cemented-in-place Peart and then fumbling cause he got crushed. This was a back-breaking fumble that simply DID NOT HAVE TO HAPPEN. Every franchise guy out there (Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, even Stafford) slides at 7 yards there and heads back to the huddle. Jones dives headfirst, risking injury, being converged on by multiple defenders. It's just not a winning play. It's reckless and it cost us.
And in that play, I just saw it clearly. He does make some plays. But he doesn't make winning plays. A few minutes later I watched him stare down all of his receivers for four straight red zone plays in a row. He is a good athlete but he doesn't have "it". Three years is an eternity in football. He isn't savvy and he's not a winner. He's clunky and he loses.
Of course, we finish the year with him (provided he doesn't get ripped to shreds diving headfirst again). But it's time, guys. Time to plan on throwing in the towel and going back to the drawing board at QB.
Powerful post.
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In comment 15364463 Matt M. said:
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It killed a likely scoring drive of what was still a close game.
It killed a drive, it took the offense off the field, it put the defense back onto the field, it took points off the board, it changed momentum.
How did it not change the game?
I imagine I'm not the only fan who was completely deflated by the play due to the futility it presented. I.e. even if we get into scoring position, our QB is equally as likely to take us out of it as he is to deliver.
Is it crazy to think the other Giants' players are affected similarly? I don't think so.
Exactly.
I'm not sure why so many supposed fans think that every interaction is the same as an inanimate chess move.