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Some All-22 on Jones

endwerc : 9/13/2021 5:15 pm
9 plays diagrammed. Worth a watch. Will delete if German.
Lonk - ( New Window )
The last throw is very informative  
Go Terps : 9/13/2021 5:22 pm : link
If you want a summary of Jones's problems in the red zone and his problems in general, look at the throw to Golladay in the end zone. Late, slow, inaccurate in an area where you can't be any of those things.
Good stuff  
crick n NC : 9/13/2021 5:27 pm : link
Thanks for sharing. Watching the game live I did not realize he had Golladay on 4th down, but was late on the throw.
RE: The last throw is very informative  
BillKo : 9/13/2021 5:27 pm : link
In comment 15365184 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If you want a summary of Jones's problems in the red zone and his problems in general, look at the throw to Golladay in the end zone. Late, slow, inaccurate in an area where you can't be any of those things.


Thought the throw to Rudolph was worse....he's one on one - isolated - but totally overthrows the big TE.
I think the issue  
crick n NC : 9/13/2021 5:28 pm : link
With the Golladay throw is mostly because he was late. Since he was late the throw became much more difficult.
That last play was extremely well defended  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/13/2021 5:28 pm : link
There wasn't anything there I'm not sure what that dude is talking about. Maaaaybe you can hit the slant, but throwing it directly into double coverage. "Anticipation" there probably results in an int. Sometimes the defense wins. I'm much more concerned that Garrett can't call anything inside the 5 that doesn't result in these extremely difficult plays to make.
To my uneducated eye  
crick n NC : 9/13/2021 5:29 pm : link
Jones plays nervous.
RE: That last play was extremely well defended  
ajr2456 : 9/13/2021 5:33 pm : link
In comment 15365195 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
There wasn't anything there I'm not sure what that dude is talking about. Maaaaybe you can hit the slant, but throwing it directly into double coverage. "Anticipation" there probably results in an int. Sometimes the defense wins. I'm much more concerned that Garrett can't call anything inside the 5 that doesn't result in these extremely difficult plays to make.


Lol jeeze man. Never a fault in Jones huh. That play only became well defended because he was late. If he throws that as Golladay is coming out of break towards his outside shoulder the corner isn’t making a play on it.
RE: The last throw is very informative  
bluewave : 9/13/2021 5:34 pm : link
In comment 15365184 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If you want a summary of Jones's problems in the red zone and his problems in general, look at the throw to Golladay in the end zone. Late, slow, inaccurate in an area where you can't be any of those things.


Look at the routes. Everyone breaks on some type of curl or stick route. That means Jones would have to read ALL OF THEM AT THE SAME TIME, make a decision, and then throw. They need more crossing and drag routes.
RE: RE: The last throw is very informative  
ajr2456 : 9/13/2021 5:35 pm : link
In comment 15365201 bluewave said:
Quote:
In comment 15365184 Go Terps said:


Quote:


If you want a summary of Jones's problems in the red zone and his problems in general, look at the throw to Golladay in the end zone. Late, slow, inaccurate in an area where you can't be any of those things.



Look at the routes. Everyone breaks on some type of curl or stick route. That means Jones would have to read ALL OF THEM AT THE SAME TIME, make a decision, and then throw. They need more crossing and drag routes.


1) that’s not how it works
2) he’s a quarterback in the NFL not high school.
Great video  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/13/2021 5:35 pm : link
The analysis is right on. Did some great stuff and did some bad stuff. I still think we lose if he doesn't fumble. Tough to blame anyone for the Rudolph play considering how little the TE was on the practice field. Throw was late to Golladay...you gotta give him a chance to make a play there.
It was 4th  
crick n NC : 9/13/2021 5:37 pm : link
Down. Find your playmaker and use him whether directly or indirectly. On Golladay's side a defender was waiting on the slant, so have confidence in Golladay and throw with anticipation.
RE: RE: That last play was extremely well defended  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/13/2021 5:37 pm : link
In comment 15365197 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15365195 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


There wasn't anything there I'm not sure what that dude is talking about. Maaaaybe you can hit the slant, but throwing it directly into double coverage. "Anticipation" there probably results in an int. Sometimes the defense wins. I'm much more concerned that Garrett can't call anything inside the 5 that doesn't result in these extremely difficult plays to make.



Lol jeeze man. Never a fault in Jones huh. That play only became well defended because he was late. If he throws that as Golladay is coming out of break towards his outside shoulder the corner isn’t making a play on it.


The corner has total outside leverage, there isn't anything there. We need to be more creative in the redzone because Garrett is making it impossible for the QB.

I don't know what to make of the Rudolph play, but I think Jones read that one wrong and Rudolph got it right. Thats what happens when you aren't on the same page. So no it's not never not Jones' fault.
RE: RE: That last play was extremely well defended  
Jimmy Googs : 9/13/2021 5:38 pm : link
In comment 15365197 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15365195 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


There wasn't anything there I'm not sure what that dude is talking about. Maaaaybe you can hit the slant, but throwing it directly into double coverage. "Anticipation" there probably results in an int. Sometimes the defense wins. I'm much more concerned that Garrett can't call anything inside the 5 that doesn't result in these extremely difficult plays to make.



Lol jeeze man. Never a fault in Jones huh. That play only became well defended because he was late. If he throws that as Golladay is coming out of break towards his outside shoulder the corner isn’t making a play on it.


Yes. The bias continues here..
It looks to me like he doesn't set his feet...  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/13/2021 5:39 pm : link
...until after he knows where he is throwing. You can definitely see it on the Golladay 4th down throw.

That wastes valuable time, especially in the redzone where this is less space to get open, and defenders can close quickly.
RE: RE: RE: That last play was extremely well defended  
Jimmy Googs : 9/13/2021 5:40 pm : link
In comment 15365209 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:


I don't know what to make of the Rudolph play, but I think Jones read that one wrong and Rudolph got it right. Thats what happens when you aren't on the same page. So no it's not never not Jones' fault.


Atta' boy!
RE: RE: RE: That last play was extremely well defended  
ajr2456 : 9/13/2021 5:41 pm : link
In comment 15365209 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15365197 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15365195 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


There wasn't anything there I'm not sure what that dude is talking about. Maaaaybe you can hit the slant, but throwing it directly into double coverage. "Anticipation" there probably results in an int. Sometimes the defense wins. I'm much more concerned that Garrett can't call anything inside the 5 that doesn't result in these extremely difficult plays to make.



Lol jeeze man. Never a fault in Jones huh. That play only became well defended because he was late. If he throws that as Golladay is coming out of break towards his outside shoulder the corner isn’t making a play on it.



The corner has total outside leverage, there isn't anything there. We need to be more creative in the redzone because Garrett is making it impossible for the QB.

I don't know what to make of the Rudolph play, but I think Jones read that one wrong and Rudolph got it right. Thats what happens when you aren't on the same page. So no it's not never not Jones' fault.


That play is designed for the throw to go to Golladay right out of his break. Pause the video at 8:00 exactly. The throw should have went to his outside shoulder right then. You’re completely wrong on this.
Look where the damn corner is sitting on the route  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/13/2021 5:45 pm : link
If he throws with "anticipation" there its just as likely its picked to the house than it is a TD. And then youd bitch about how he couldnt see it. It's all so damn predictable at this point. He doesn't have the benefit of hindsight to see the corner get caught flat footed. Instead he waited for him to break to the corner and hopefully get a jump ball situation, but the corner showed great recovery ability.

The Rudolph play was almost certainly on Jones, but it's absolute bullshit to point out what develops after the fact when you need to make decisions in real time.
RE: That last play was extremely well defended  
Football Giants : 9/13/2021 5:47 pm : link
In comment 15365195 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
There wasn't anything there I'm not sure what that dude is talking about. Maaaaybe you can hit the slant, but throwing it directly into double coverage. "Anticipation" there probably results in an int. Sometimes the defense wins. I'm much more concerned that Garrett can't call anything inside the 5 that doesn't result in these extremely difficult plays to make.


That's a TD if he throws it on time
RE: Look where the damn corner is sitting on the route  
ajr2456 : 9/13/2021 5:48 pm : link
In comment 15365220 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
If he throws with "anticipation" there its just as likely its picked to the house than it is a TD. And then youd bitch about how he couldnt see it. It's all so damn predictable at this point. He doesn't have the benefit of hindsight to see the corner get caught flat footed. Instead he waited for him to break to the corner and hopefully get a jump ball situation, but the corner showed great recovery ability.

The Rudolph play was almost certainly on Jones, but it's absolute bullshit to point out what develops after the fact when you need to make decisions in real time.


You’re completely wrong. The play is designed for anticipation, that’s the only way the rub works. The corner isn’t making a play if he throws it in the right spot. Instead he throws a shitty jump ball a second late with the defender draped all over Golladay.

The only thing that’s predictable is how wrong you are and how much you’ll lick Jones’ boot.
If we can’t expect  
ajr2456 : 9/13/2021 5:49 pm : link
Jones to throw with anticipation what the fuck are we even doing here Jesus Christ man.
RE: Look where the damn corner is sitting on the route  
Go Terps : 9/13/2021 5:54 pm : link
In comment 15365220 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
If he throws with "anticipation" there its just as likely its picked to the house than it is a TD. And then youd bitch about how he couldnt see it. It's all so damn predictable at this point. He doesn't have the benefit of hindsight to see the corner get caught flat footed. Instead he waited for him to break to the corner and hopefully get a jump ball situation, but the corner showed great recovery ability.

The Rudolph play was almost certainly on Jones, but it's absolute bullshit to point out what develops after the fact when you need to make decisions in real time.


This is not accurate. Golladay established himself between the corner and Jones. If the ball is on time it is then a matter of what Golladay was signed to do - catch the ball in contested situations. That's a key point here - Golladay isn't a guy that gets separation. He's a guy that catches the ball in traffic.

This is the NFL. That's got to be a touchdown.
As a rookie Jones had 13 tds and 0 ints in the RZ  
Eric on Li : 9/13/2021 6:04 pm : link
this offensive scheme is broken and unless there are major changes implemented by Judge the season is going down the tubes. If this offensive scheme remained I feel confident in saying it would serve whichever QB cycles in next poorly too.

Cycling Garrett out for someone else may make things better, like it did in Dallas, so I'd try that first.

btw the 4th and 6 was one of Jason Garrett's signature sticks routes. And not only that he got the play in so late it should have been a delay of game. The Bronco's DBs were literally in shell waiting to break on the ball around the goaline. It's hard to see in the 2nd screenshot because it's low res but the Bronco defenders hardly had to move and there were 2 of them breaking in on each NYG target regardless of where the throw went.

Link to the clip is below too.




https://twitter.com/bobbyskinner_/status/1437450025865449475?s=10 - ( New Window )
Jones made his mistakes  
Everyone Relax : 9/13/2021 6:05 pm : link
but there was maybe no chance of that 4th down play resulting in a td. Even if he threw it sooner there was zero separation. A mediocre DB is going to break that up
RE: Look where the damn corner is sitting on the route  
Everyone Relax : 9/13/2021 6:09 pm : link
In comment 15365220 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
If he throws with "anticipation" there its just as likely its picked to the house than it is a TD. And then youd bitch about how he couldnt see it. It's all so damn predictable at this point. He doesn't have the benefit of hindsight to see the corner get caught flat footed. Instead he waited for him to break to the corner and hopefully get a jump ball situation, but the corner showed great recovery ability.

The Rudolph play was almost certainly on Jones, but it's absolute bullshit to point out what develops after the fact when you need to make decisions in real time.

Amen. That’s a 99 yard pick 6 with an “anticipation” throw. I hate having to defend Jones but we are picking the wrong things the criticize him about. Pocket presence and ball security are 1 and 2
RE: RE: Look where the damn corner is sitting on the route  
ajr2456 : 9/13/2021 6:17 pm : link
In comment 15365252 Everyone Relax said:
Quote:
In comment 15365220 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


If he throws with "anticipation" there its just as likely its picked to the house than it is a TD. And then youd bitch about how he couldnt see it. It's all so damn predictable at this point. He doesn't have the benefit of hindsight to see the corner get caught flat footed. Instead he waited for him to break to the corner and hopefully get a jump ball situation, but the corner showed great recovery ability.

The Rudolph play was almost certainly on Jones, but it's absolute bullshit to point out what develops after the fact when you need to make decisions in real time.


Amen. That’s a 99 yard pick 6 with an “anticipation” throw. I hate having to defend Jones but we are picking the wrong things the criticize him about. Pocket presence and ball security are 1 and 2


Wrong. Good QBs make that throw.
RE: RE: RE: Look where the damn corner is sitting on the route  
Everyone Relax : 9/13/2021 6:18 pm : link
In comment 15365258 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15365252 Everyone Relax said:


Quote:


In comment 15365220 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


If he throws with "anticipation" there its just as likely its picked to the house than it is a TD. And then youd bitch about how he couldnt see it. It's all so damn predictable at this point. He doesn't have the benefit of hindsight to see the corner get caught flat footed. Instead he waited for him to break to the corner and hopefully get a jump ball situation, but the corner showed great recovery ability.

The Rudolph play was almost certainly on Jones, but it's absolute bullshit to point out what develops after the fact when you need to make decisions in real time.


Amen. That’s a 99 yard pick 6 with an “anticipation” throw. I hate having to defend Jones but we are picking the wrong things the criticize him about. Pocket presence and ball security are 1 and 2



Wrong. Good QBs make that throw.

Well the guy on YouTube said it so it must be true
Watching that  
joeinpa : 9/13/2021 6:23 pm : link
I can see why the Giants believe Jones is the guy.
RE: Watching that  
Jimmy Googs : 9/13/2021 6:25 pm : link
In comment 15365263 joeinpa said:
Quote:
I can see why the Giants believe Jones is the guy.


And why is that?
RE: To my uneducated eye  
djm : 9/13/2021 6:29 pm : link
In comment 15365196 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Jones plays nervous.


Same.
RE: RE: RE: Look where the damn corner is sitting on the route  
bw in dc : 9/13/2021 6:47 pm : link
In comment 15365258 ajr2456 said:
Quote:

Amen. That’s a 99 yard pick 6 with an “anticipation” throw. I hate having to defend Jones but we are picking the wrong things the criticize him about. Pocket presence and ball security are 1 and 2



Wrong. Good QBs make that throw.


I agree. Jones has to give KG a chance to make a play. There is a significant size advantage with KG. Fuller is only 5'10". If the ball is delivered on time and high, I like KG's chances to make a play.
RE: To my uneducated eye  
Spider56 : 9/13/2021 6:59 pm : link
In comment 15365196 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Jones plays nervous.


BINGO ... something bad happened to his confidence when Shurmur left and JG came in ... I noticed it in his eyes last year. He just doesn’t look comfortable.
Why wasn't Jones used in the preseason games?  
Fishmanjim57 : 9/13/2021 7:00 pm : link
The coaching staff are putting too much trust in this guy. He shouldn't be given the keys to the car if he keeps dropping them.
I am not a fan of Daniel Jones.
Not only did Gettleman screw the pooch when it came to the OL, but Gettleman drafted Jones.
The Giants should still be in the market for a starting QB.
Thank you for sharing  
gmen4ever : 9/13/2021 7:11 pm : link
I really enjoyed the perspective
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/13/2021 7:12 pm : link
Jones looked like a different QB under Shurmur than he has with Garrett.
RE: RE: Watching that  
joeinpa : 9/13/2021 7:19 pm : link
In comment 15365266 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15365263 joeinpa said:


Quote:


I can see why the Giants believe Jones is the guy.



And why is that?


There are plays where he demonstrates the skills to be special . Some of his throws are as good as it gets. He is a weapon with his legs

His problem continues to be inconsistency. Are we absolutely certain he won’t continue to develop to the point where his outstanding plays become the norm?

He has great potential. Maybe I should have stated, “I see why the Giants are hopeful maybe even optimistic he becomes the guy”

People get annoyed with the Simms comparison, but the same things being said about Jones were being said about Simms at equal pts in their career, that s a fact

I just disagree with those who speak with such certainty that he s not the guy.
He is slow  
TommyWiseau : 9/13/2021 7:20 pm : link
To process, has a average throwing motion, decent arm strength and seems to only look at 1 reciever on most plays.
the rudolph pass is laugh out loud pathetic  
GiantsFan84 : 9/13/2021 7:23 pm : link
he's in his 3rd year. in the NFL. as a professional football player. there is simply no defending this guy. he is not a starting pro QB
RE: RE: RE: Watching that  
Jimmy Googs : 9/13/2021 7:28 pm : link
In comment 15365355 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15365266 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15365263 joeinpa said:


Quote:


I can see why the Giants believe Jones is the guy.



And why is that?



There are plays where he demonstrates the skills to be special . Some of his throws are as good as it gets. He is a weapon with his legs

His problem continues to be inconsistency. Are we absolutely certain he won’t continue to develop to the point where his outstanding plays become the norm?

He has great potential. Maybe I should have stated, “I see why the Giants are hopeful maybe even optimistic he becomes the guy”

People get annoyed with the Simms comparison, but the same things being said about Jones were being said about Simms at equal pts in their career, that s a fact

I just disagree with those who speak with such certainty that he s not the guy.


I don't know if he isn't the guy yet either.

But inconsistency is not his problem in my view. He hasn't shown enough highs yet to go with the fairly consistent lows to be labeled inconsistent. 3 really good games 2 years ago against 3 bad defenses doesn't qualify.

He didn't help his cause yesterday though, and he's got to start doing that...

We have a full season  
ryanmkeane : 9/13/2021 7:31 pm : link
to see if Jones is the guy. It should be pretty apparent halfway through the season if that’s the case or not.
4 down territory  
Giants73 : 9/13/2021 7:36 pm : link
Correct play on Rudulphs is to waste it and not throw a pick have the next down. Can’t argue that he is being too aggressive and fumbles and then Argue that he has to be more aggressive and try and make a throw that’s not there. KG route is a horrible play design. 5 yards from the sideline and cross the WRs. By the time the underneath CB turns his shoulders there is no room at front pylon. The route needs to be a back corner fade. Really with KG and that close they should have ISO’d him two plays in a row. That’s why you pay him
RE: ...  
Sammo85 : 9/13/2021 8:01 pm : link
In comment 15365351 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Jones looked like a different QB under Shurmur than he has with Garrett.


While he made lots of throws and some razzle dazzle that’s also where it got really crazy with all the turnovers. Shurmur let him play loose.
RE: To my uneducated eye  
santacruzom : 9/13/2021 8:09 pm : link
In comment 15365196 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Jones plays nervous.


I've always thought that his motions express nervousness, even when he's actually played well!
That play call on 4th down was destined to fail  
lawguy9801 : 9/13/2021 8:21 pm : link
No one was close to open and the routes all sucked. On the left side one guy went to the corner and the inside receiver did an out route short of the end zone. Not sure what was going on on the right side. Out of five receivers, no one was anywhere near the middle of the end zone. Jones was disappointing, but Garrett needs to help him out with play design and play calls.
RE: That play call on 4th down was destined to fail  
bw in dc : 9/13/2021 8:29 pm : link
In comment 15365447 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
No one was close to open and the routes all sucked. On the left side one guy went to the corner and the inside receiver did an out route short of the end zone. Not sure what was going on on the right side. Out of five receivers, no one was anywhere near the middle of the end zone. Jones was disappointing, but Garrett needs to help him out with play design and play calls.



I wonder if the WR next to KG should have had a better rub on the corner...?

Regardless, there was a play to be made if Jones is (1) on time and (2) throws the ball on the high side of KG's catch radius because Fuller is only 5'10".

The pocket was collapsing on the play, btw. So Jones also had to contend with that...
RE: RE: RE: RE: Watching that  
joeinpa : 9/13/2021 8:31 pm : link
In comment 15365371 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15365355 joeinpa said:


Quote:


In comment 15365266 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15365263 joeinpa said:


Quote:


I can see why the Giants believe Jones is the guy.



And why is that?



There are plays where he demonstrates the skills to be special . Some of his throws are as good as it gets. He is a weapon with his legs

His problem continues to be inconsistency. Are we absolutely certain he won’t continue to develop to the point where his outstanding plays become the norm?

He has great potential. Maybe I should have stated, “I see why the Giants are hopeful maybe even optimistic he becomes the guy”

People get annoyed with the Simms comparison, but the same things being said about Jones were being said about Simms at equal pts in their career, that s a fact

I just disagree with those who speak with such certainty that he s not the guy.



I don't know if he isn't the guy yet either.

But inconsistency is not his problem in my view. He hasn't shown enough highs yet to go with the fairly consistent lows to be labeled inconsistent. 3 really good games 2 years ago against 3 bad defenses doesn't qualify.

He didn't help his cause yesterday though, and he's got to start doing that...


I tend to see potential in players and almost always believe the mistakes can be eliminated. Some other fans see performance

You re right about Jones on a per game basis, he s been more consistently mediocre

I see the great “plays” and think he can do that more often

I might be wrong. But, Just not ready to move off his bandwagon.
RE: ...  
Sean : 9/13/2021 8:34 pm : link
In comment 15365351 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Jones looked like a different QB under Shurmur than he has with Garrett.

He was still a turnover machine. A lot of those stats were accumulated in the Tampa, NYJ & WFT games.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Watching that  
Scooter185 : 9/13/2021 8:36 pm : link
In comment 15365470 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15365371 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15365355 joeinpa said:


Quote:


In comment 15365266 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15365263 joeinpa said:


Quote:


I can see why the Giants believe Jones is the guy.



And why is that?



There are plays where he demonstrates the skills to be special . Some of his throws are as good as it gets. He is a weapon with his legs

His problem continues to be inconsistency. Are we absolutely certain he won’t continue to develop to the point where his outstanding plays become the norm?

He has great potential. Maybe I should have stated, “I see why the Giants are hopeful maybe even optimistic he becomes the guy”

People get annoyed with the Simms comparison, but the same things being said about Jones were being said about Simms at equal pts in their career, that s a fact

I just disagree with those who speak with such certainty that he s not the guy.



I don't know if he isn't the guy yet either.

But inconsistency is not his problem in my view. He hasn't shown enough highs yet to go with the fairly consistent lows to be labeled inconsistent. 3 really good games 2 years ago against 3 bad defenses doesn't qualify.

He didn't help his cause yesterday though, and he's got to start doing that...




I tend to see potential in players and almost always believe the mistakes can be eliminated. Some other fans see performance

You re right about Jones on a per game basis, he s been more consistently mediocre

I see the great “plays” and think he can do that more often

I might be wrong. But, Just not ready to move off his bandwagon.


Potential is great, but if it doesn't turn into results the player has to go. This is true in all sports
RE: RE: ...  
bw in dc : 9/13/2021 8:37 pm : link
In comment 15365476 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 15365351 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Jones looked like a different QB under Shurmur than he has with Garrett.


He was still a turnover machine. A lot of those stats were accumulated in the Tampa, NYJ & WFT games.


These are excellent points.
RE: RE: To my uneducated eye  
BillKo : 9/13/2021 8:39 pm : link
In comment 15365326 Spider56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15365196 crick n NC said:


Quote:


Jones plays nervous.



BINGO ... something bad happened to his confidence when Shurmur left and JG came in ... I noticed it in his eyes last year. He just doesn’t look comfortable.


It's quite clear to me the Shurmur/Reid offense is much easier for QBs to play in, or at least certain types of QBs. And Jones played really well in it his first year.

And I've been saying this all the way back in the early 2000's when Reid took over Philly. There's a ton of easy pitch and catch throws.

This offense is going to be the demise of Garrett - and DJ - as far as being Giants IMO.

RE: RE: RE: To my uneducated eye  
ColHowPepper : 9/13/2021 8:50 pm : link
In comment 15365489 BillKo said:
Quote:
...This offense is going to be the demise of Garrett - and DJ - as far as being Giants IMO.
Couldn't agree more. The QB looks tentative, uncertain, and not confident, backsliding now one + years out.

There is no rhythm to Garrett's play calling, no taking what the d is giving. It's mechanical, JG's head buried in HIS playbook, WITH NO FEEL FOR WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE GAME. How do you run SB between the tackles six, eight times and not realize you don't have the Cowboys' OL and Ezekiel running behind it? How do you not get SB in space, some play action, man in motion with reverses with your new toys? Mind boggling. Keep the d off balance.
Every QB on an NFL roster  
ajr2456 : 9/13/2021 9:00 pm : link
Can make a handful of special throws a game. Jones doesn’t do it like a #6 pick should.
From Sy's...  
bw in dc : 9/13/2021 9:05 pm : link
game review today...

Quote:
Looking at the stat line, it would be natural to assume Jones played a decent game. I went in the other direction. He was way worse than the stat line, and considering the fumble at such an inopportune time, it was a well-below average game from Jones. This is THE year for the third-year quarterback from Duke and it was a poor way to start it off. He was inaccurate on several throws, he had two interceptions dropped, and the fumble was inexcusable. That was arguably the top turning point of the game, and you just can’t have that from the leader of the offense. Jones continues to be slow to react, he continues to struggle when his primary read isn’t there, and he isn’t putting a defense on its heels. 1 down, 16 to go for Jones who is in a season-long job interview for his future.


Just in case many of you didn't see this. And Sy is looking at this through a very objective lens...
Greg put it best on another thread..  
Sean : 9/13/2021 9:08 pm : link
What part of Jones’ game thus far makes him warrant the 6th pick in the draft?
RE: Greg put it best on another thread..  
bw in dc : 9/13/2021 9:20 pm : link
In comment 15365528 Sean said:
Quote:
What part of Jones’ game thus far makes him warrant the 6th pick in the draft?


I asked that question the day Jones was drafted...
The play design in the red zone was bad.  
CT Charlie : 9/13/2021 10:27 pm : link
First, the rubs and crossing patterns were few – and they also weren't crisp. Worse, instead of throwing a quick 10 yards over the middle, Jones was expected to throw to the sidelines, which meant a 20-25 yard throw. THAT was why everything was so slow to develop.

For fun, look at the Patriots play design in the red zone. On every passing plays the routes force the refs to decide whether to flag them for illegal picks. They get away with it 9 times out of 10 because the plays are well designed and the players are so well drilled.
RE: From Sy's...  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/14/2021 12:13 am : link
In comment 15365523 bw in dc said:
Quote:
game review today...



Quote:


Looking at the stat line, it would be natural to assume Jones played a decent game. I went in the other direction. He was way worse than the stat line, and considering the fumble at such an inopportune time, it was a well-below average game from Jones. This is THE year for the third-year quarterback from Duke and it was a poor way to start it off. He was inaccurate on several throws, he had two interceptions dropped, and the fumble was inexcusable. That was arguably the top turning point of the game, and you just can’t have that from the leader of the offense. Jones continues to be slow to react, he continues to struggle when his primary read isn’t there, and he isn’t putting a defense on its heels. 1 down, 16 to go for Jones who is in a season-long job interview for his future.



Just in case many of you didn't see this. And Sy is looking at this through a very objective lens...


Nobody is 100% objective. Reading his review of Jones and then reading the next paragraph letting Barkley off the hook is a tale of 2 draft predictions. Both are high draft picks. Both are expected to produce. He basically buries Jones and says Barkley is rusty. He is entitled to his opinion like everyone else on this board
RE: Greg put it best on another thread..  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/14/2021 12:17 am : link
In comment 15365528 Sean said:
Quote:
What part of Jones’ game thus far makes him warrant the 6th pick in the draft?


Jones throws one of best long balls in the NFL and has top end speed. Again...the guy set records as a rookie...why did he regress?
RE: RE: From Sy's...  
bw in dc : 9/14/2021 12:26 am : link
In comment 15365758 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:


Nobody is 100% objective. Reading his review of Jones and then reading the next paragraph letting Barkley off the hook is a tale of 2 draft predictions. Both are high draft picks. Both are expected to produce. He basically buries Jones and says Barkley is rusty. He is entitled to his opinion like everyone else on this board


Well, Sy does this for a living. So while "nobody is 100% objective" - true - I trust Sy to have the ability to be as objective as anyone.
RE: RE: RE: Watching that  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/14/2021 9:11 am : link
In comment 15365355 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15365266 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15365263 joeinpa said:


Quote:


I can see why the Giants believe Jones is the guy.



And why is that?



There are plays where he demonstrates the skills to be special . Some of his throws are as good as it gets. He is a weapon with his legs

His problem continues to be inconsistency. Are we absolutely certain he won’t continue to develop to the point where his outstanding plays become the norm?


By the end of this season we will have 3 years of Jones games to look at.

If he's still an inconsistent fumble machine playing like he did on sunday, what reason to we have to believe that changes having had 3 years? He's gotten worse since his rookie year, not better.
RE: From Sy's...  
TheBlueprintNC : 9/14/2021 9:11 am : link
In comment 15365523 bw in dc said:
Quote:
game review today...



Quote:


Looking at the stat line, it would be natural to assume Jones played a decent game. I went in the other direction. He was way worse than the stat line, and considering the fumble at such an inopportune time, it was a well-below average game from Jones. This is THE year for the third-year quarterback from Duke and it was a poor way to start it off. He was inaccurate on several throws, he had two interceptions dropped, and the fumble was inexcusable. That was arguably the top turning point of the game, and you just can’t have that from the leader of the offense. Jones continues to be slow to react, he continues to struggle when his primary read isn’t there, and he isn’t putting a defense on its heels. 1 down, 16 to go for Jones who is in a season-long job interview for his future.



Just in case many of you didn't see this. And Sy is looking at this through a very objective lens...


Dave does a really nice job but i think he is wrong on this.. I saw a QB gutting it out and trying to move the ball.. The issue is this OL and Dan with the new weapons have not practiced or played together.. This is a preseason game since all players were hurt during the preseason. The only consistent players were Shep best game by far, Dan had a good game, Gates and Thomas and Hernandez, and Booker. The rest were ill timed missed assignments and just rusty due to no playing time. Ijured the Giants were injured all thru the off season and pre season -but the season has started they have plenty of talent to start to get more aggressive and in time. SQ has to get his game back will take a few games before he does. He missed quite a few open holes. Golladay you saw at the end of the game- that was the most gametime work they ever had, Peart needs to get on the field but he needs to be worked in since coming off injury. KT #1 draft pick never practiced. EE will be back and help the middle of the field. Rudolph another no practice guy will come on, looked rusty as heck. D will be fine too just need to play together. 4 games is where the rubber will meet the road.. Dan needs will get more aggressive as we go on. Go re watch some of his throws the ones that looked off were with players he didnt practice with..
Lmao  
ajr2456 : 9/14/2021 9:14 am : link
A QB “gutting it out”. He was bad. It’s ok to admit it.
RE: Lmao  
TheBlueprintNC : 9/14/2021 9:29 am : link
In comment 15365964 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
A QB “gutting it out”. He was bad. It’s ok to admit it.


No he wasnt. its ok to admit it. he just needs a few games with his group. The kid has been here 3 yrs and this is the first time since he took over hes had a decent line in front of him and a few weapons.. Get the running game going and everything wll fall into place.

A Good QB is smart and learns and is tough enough to make plays. A great one is one that doesnt wilt in the sun. We will see what DJ is soon enough.
Sounds like we just need longer and longer regular seasons  
Jimmy Googs : 9/14/2021 9:34 am : link
That way the Giants can use the first couple months to play together and get to know each other, and then the last couple of months focusing on wins.

Maybe a 24 game regular season works?
RE: RE: Lmao  
ajr2456 : 9/14/2021 9:43 am : link
In comment 15365984 TheBlueprintNC said:
Quote:
In comment 15365964 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


A QB “gutting it out”. He was bad. It’s ok to admit it.



No he wasnt. its ok to admit it. he just needs a few games with his group. The kid has been here 3 yrs and this is the first time since he took over hes had a decent line in front of him and a few weapons.. Get the running game going and everything wll fall into place.

A Good QB is smart and learns and is tough enough to make plays. A great one is one that doesnt wilt in the sun. We will see what DJ is soon enough.


Well Jones wilts more than he doesn’t. It was Tyrod Taylor’s first game with his new group and he was better.
RE: Sounds like we just need longer and longer regular seasons  
ajr2456 : 9/14/2021 9:44 am : link
In comment 15365992 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
That way the Giants can use the first couple months to play together and get to know each other, and then the last couple of months focusing on wins.

Maybe a 24 game regular season works?


It’s amazing we’re in year 3 with the same mistakes and play, and it’s still “he just needs more time”
So the tape shows a number of good reads and passes  
PatersonPlank : 9/14/2021 9:45 am : link
why isn't anyone discussing them? All this discussion is on the last 2 passes, which to me look very well covered. That Golladay pass likely would have been picked if lower. The Rudolph one could have been a completion if throw earlier and perfect, but its not like missing a wide open guy. I don't see anything terrible here. I think people are just on a feeding frenzy at this point
RE: So the tape shows a number of good reads and passes  
ajr2456 : 9/14/2021 9:52 am : link
In comment 15366011 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
why isn't anyone discussing them? All this discussion is on the last 2 passes, which to me look very well covered. That Golladay pass likely would have been picked if lower. The Rudolph one could have been a completion if throw earlier and perfect, but its not like missing a wide open guy. I don't see anything terrible here. I think people are just on a feeding frenzy at this point


Derek Carr made a number of good passes and reads too last night. So did Tua. And Jameis. And Dalton. And every other QB in the league Sunday. When your bad passes and turnovers are in the redzone whatever else you did doesn’t matter.
RE: So the tape shows a number of good reads and passes  
rsjem1979 : 9/14/2021 10:01 am : link
In comment 15366011 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
why isn't anyone discussing them? All this discussion is on the last 2 passes, which to me look very well covered. That Golladay pass likely would have been picked if lower. The Rudolph one could have been a completion if throw earlier and perfect, but its not like missing a wide open guy. I don't see anything terrible here. I think people are just on a feeding frenzy at this point


Because it's his job to make good decisions and throws, and do it much more often. Not being "terrible" isn't worthy of praise. Being consistently good-to-great would be, and we're yet to see it.
RE: So the tape shows a number of good reads and passes  
Jimmy Googs : 9/14/2021 10:02 am : link
In comment 15366011 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
why isn't anyone discussing them? All this discussion is on the last 2 passes, which to me look very well covered. That Golladay pass likely would have been picked if lower. The Rudolph one could have been a completion if throw earlier and perfect, but its not like missing a wide open guy. I don't see anything terrible here. I think people are just on a feeding frenzy at this point


Why don't you start a new thread and discuss them?

If you don't like what is being said, change the conversation.
RE: Why wasn't Jones used in the preseason games?  
TheBlueprintNC : 9/14/2021 10:03 am : link
In comment 15365328 Fishmanjim57 said:
Quote:
The coaching staff are putting too much trust in this guy. He shouldn't be given the keys to the car if he keeps dropping them.
I am not a fan of Daniel Jones.
Not only did Gettleman screw the pooch when it came to the OL, but Gettleman drafted Jones.
The Giants should still be in the market for a starting QB.


OL was hurt and new weapons were out injured.
RE: RE: Why wasn't Jones used in the preseason games?  
Jimmy Googs : 9/14/2021 10:07 am : link
In comment 15366041 TheBlueprintNC said:
Quote:
In comment 15365328 Fishmanjim57 said:


Quote:


The coaching staff are putting too much trust in this guy. He shouldn't be given the keys to the car if he keeps dropping them.
I am not a fan of Daniel Jones.
Not only did Gettleman screw the pooch when it came to the OL, but Gettleman drafted Jones.
The Giants should still be in the market for a starting QB.



OL was hurt and new weapons were out injured.


Honest, my dog ate the gameplan...
RE: Sounds like we just need longer and longer regular seasons  
TheBlueprintNC : 9/14/2021 10:11 am : link
In comment 15365992 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
That way the Giants can use the first couple months to play together and get to know each other, and then the last couple of months focusing on wins.

Maybe a 24 game regular season works?


Cute. Nope 4 games and practices.. Too much talent to not come together.. OL played decently much improved aside Solder whiff but that will be Peart in there by game 5. Pass blocking mostly good. Run game had holes. WRs TEs just need time playing.

D will be fine.
RE: RE: Lmao  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/14/2021 10:11 am : link
In comment 15365984 TheBlueprintNC said:
Quote:
In comment 15365964 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


A QB “gutting it out”. He was bad. It’s ok to admit it.



No he wasnt. its ok to admit it. he just needs a few games with his group. The kid has been here 3 yrs and this is the first time since he took over hes had a decent line in front of him and a few weapons


He's had Saquon, Sterling, Engram, and Slayton his whole career. They spent a lot of money for Tate, who gave them production until last season.

Criticise the line all day, they deserve it, but Jones has had people to throw to more often than not.

Some of you guys are seriously getting ridiculous now  
PatersonPlank : 9/14/2021 10:12 am : link
watching a 9.5 minute video, the last 2.5 minutes are a guy pointing out some of Jones's mistakes (I bet there were more). So lets skip the first 6.5 minutes of good things, and just go nuts over the mistakes. You do realize he picked and chooses these right? There were more positive plays and more negative plays he could have shown. Hell the video could have taken any form he wanted (all good, all bad, etc.). He tried I think to show a balanced view.

Look I don't know if Jones is the guy or not yet. I see good every time he plays and I see bad too. One will win, and a decision I would hope will be made by the end of the season one way or another by the coaches. All I know is that watching this video doesn't prove to me anything.
RE: Some of you guys are seriously getting ridiculous now  
ajr2456 : 9/14/2021 10:20 am : link
In comment 15366063 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
watching a 9.5 minute video, the last 2.5 minutes are a guy pointing out some of Jones's mistakes (I bet there were more). So lets skip the first 6.5 minutes of good things, and just go nuts over the mistakes. You do realize he picked and chooses these right? There were more positive plays and more negative plays he could have shown. Hell the video could have taken any form he wanted (all good, all bad, etc.). He tried I think to show a balanced view.

Look I don't know if Jones is the guy or not yet. I see good every time he plays and I see bad too. One will win, and a decision I would hope will be made by the end of the season one way or another by the coaches. All I know is that watching this video doesn't prove to me anything.


Every single QB every week has more good plays than bad ones, you’re being obtuse. It’s how bad and the timing of the bad ones.
RE: RE: Sounds like we just need longer and longer regular seasons  
ajr2456 : 9/14/2021 10:22 am : link
In comment 15366059 TheBlueprintNC said:
Quote:
In comment 15365992 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


That way the Giants can use the first couple months to play together and get to know each other, and then the last couple of months focusing on wins.

Maybe a 24 game regular season works?



Cute. Nope 4 games and practices.. Too much talent to not come together.. OL played decently much improved aside Solder whiff but that will be Peart in there by game 5. Pass blocking mostly good. Run game had holes. WRs TEs just need time playing.

D will be fine.


So they need four games worth of practices and games to not be an abomination on offense but 3/4 of the league can go out and score 20+ week one? Cmon man.
RE: RE: Sounds like we just need longer and longer regular seasons  
Jimmy Googs : 9/14/2021 10:26 am : link
In comment 15366059 TheBlueprintNC said:
Quote:
In comment 15365992 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


That way the Giants can use the first couple months to play together and get to know each other, and then the last couple of months focusing on wins.

Maybe a 24 game regular season works?



Cute. Nope 4 games and practices.. Too much talent to not come together.. OL played decently much improved aside Solder whiff but that will be Peart in there by game 5. Pass blocking mostly good. Run game had holes. WRs TEs just need time playing.

D will be fine.


Agree with a lot of this. Especially me being cute.

You're a pretty active poster this week, huh? Keep up the straight-man optimism comments too as the site needs more like this...
RE: RE: Sounds like we just need longer and longer regular seasons  
Greg from LI : 9/14/2021 10:31 am : link
In comment 15366059 TheBlueprintNC said:
Quote:
OL played decently much improved aside Solder whiff but that will be Peart in there by game 5.


That would be the same Peart who couldn't beat out Solder for the starting job, right? Forgive me if that doesn't instill confidence.
RE: RE: Some of you guys are seriously getting ridiculous now  
PatersonPlank : 9/14/2021 10:36 am : link
In comment 15366084 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15366063 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


watching a 9.5 minute video, the last 2.5 minutes are a guy pointing out some of Jones's mistakes (I bet there were more). So lets skip the first 6.5 minutes of good things, and just go nuts over the mistakes. You do realize he picked and chooses these right? There were more positive plays and more negative plays he could have shown. Hell the video could have taken any form he wanted (all good, all bad, etc.). He tried I think to show a balanced view.

Look I don't know if Jones is the guy or not yet. I see good every time he plays and I see bad too. One will win, and a decision I would hope will be made by the end of the season one way or another by the coaches. All I know is that watching this video doesn't prove to me anything.



Every single QB every week has more good plays than bad ones, you’re being obtuse. It’s how bad and the timing of the bad ones.


Not being obtuse. He picked these. I and you don't know if you lined up every Jones play the whole game how many good ones vs bad ones he would have. This guy just cherry picked a few good ones and bad ones to give a balanced view, and you are jumping all over it like this proves something.

So let me give my personal opinion on those 2 "bad" Jones plays. First off neither guy was really open. I blame Garretts scheme here more than anything. He ran a little set of routes, and it seemed like Denver was sitting there waiting for it. Jones tried to throw it high, in a place where only Golladay/Rudolph could get it, so as to not risk a Int (smart move).

The two things I would critique Jones about are 2) the passes were obviously too high, so not good (but not an easy pass), and 2) could he have bought more time and looked back at the middle of the field to see if anyone was open. I think someone like Lamar, Murray, etc., would have tried to scramble a little and get back to the other side once he saw how tight the coverage was on Rudolph and Golladay. That could also lead to a sack too, so there really isn't a good answer here seeing that Denver D was sitting right there. So to me Garrett has to get more creative than this.
RE: RE: RE: Lmao  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/14/2021 10:38 am : link
In comment 15366060 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15365984 TheBlueprintNC said:


Quote:


In comment 15365964 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


A QB “gutting it out”. He was bad. It’s ok to admit it.



No he wasnt. its ok to admit it. he just needs a few games with his group. The kid has been here 3 yrs and this is the first time since he took over hes had a decent line in front of him and a few weapons



He's had Saquon, Sterling, Engram, and Slayton his whole career. They spent a lot of money for Tate, who gave them production until last season.

Criticise the line all day, they deserve it, but Jones has had people to throw to more often than not.


Those names do more to indict Gettleman than Jones. Jones played well when Barkley was healthy in 2019. Shepard has been hurt consistently during Jones career. Engram has only helped DJ turn the ball over more. Slayton, like Jones, has regressed since his rookie year, and Tate...yeah, they gave him a lot of money.
RE: RE: RE: Some of you guys are seriously getting ridiculous now  
ajr2456 : 9/14/2021 10:47 am : link
In comment 15366111 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 15366084 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15366063 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


watching a 9.5 minute video, the last 2.5 minutes are a guy pointing out some of Jones's mistakes (I bet there were more). So lets skip the first 6.5 minutes of good things, and just go nuts over the mistakes. You do realize he picked and chooses these right? There were more positive plays and more negative plays he could have shown. Hell the video could have taken any form he wanted (all good, all bad, etc.). He tried I think to show a balanced view.

Look I don't know if Jones is the guy or not yet. I see good every time he plays and I see bad too. One will win, and a decision I would hope will be made by the end of the season one way or another by the coaches. All I know is that watching this video doesn't prove to me anything.



Every single QB every week has more good plays than bad ones, you’re being obtuse. It’s how bad and the timing of the bad ones.



Not being obtuse. He picked these. I and you don't know if you lined up every Jones play the whole game how many good ones vs bad ones he would have. This guy just cherry picked a few good ones and bad ones to give a balanced view, and you are jumping all over it like this proves something.

So let me give my personal opinion on those 2 "bad" Jones plays. First off neither guy was really open. I blame Garretts scheme here more than anything. He ran a little set of routes, and it seemed like Denver was sitting there waiting for it. Jones tried to throw it high, in a place where only Golladay/Rudolph could get it, so as to not risk a Int (smart move).

The two things I would critique Jones about are 2) the passes were obviously too high, so not good (but not an easy pass), and 2) could he have bought more time and looked back at the middle of the field to see if anyone was open. I think someone like Lamar, Murray, etc., would have tried to scramble a little and get back to the other side once he saw how tight the coverage was on Rudolph and Golladay. That could also lead to a sack too, so there really isn't a good answer here seeing that Denver D was sitting right there. So to me Garrett has to get more creative than this.


So the guy has to be wide open for Jones to have a chance? The final play Golladay is open for a touchdown if he throws right out of his break in the right spot. It’s the redzone you’re not going to get guys “really open”. All the good QBs turn that play into a touchdown.

Like I’ve said a million times, every QB on a roster in the NFL will have good throws in a game, Jones is the number 6 pick he needs to do it more than he does. I don’t need the two plays in the video to prove something, we have two previous years of it.

You’ll be making these same excuses in December so what’s really the point of having this conversation. What the Jones Cult considers “didn’t play bad” is subpar QB performance. Look at what Carr did last night, what’s your faith Jones can do that in more than 50% of the games this year?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Some of you guys are seriously getting ridiculous now  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/14/2021 10:51 am : link
In comment 15366136 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15366111 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


In comment 15366084 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15366063 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


watching a 9.5 minute video, the last 2.5 minutes are a guy pointing out some of Jones's mistakes (I bet there were more). So lets skip the first 6.5 minutes of good things, and just go nuts over the mistakes. You do realize he picked and chooses these right? There were more positive plays and more negative plays he could have shown. Hell the video could have taken any form he wanted (all good, all bad, etc.). He tried I think to show a balanced view.

Look I don't know if Jones is the guy or not yet. I see good every time he plays and I see bad too. One will win, and a decision I would hope will be made by the end of the season one way or another by the coaches. All I know is that watching this video doesn't prove to me anything.



Every single QB every week has more good plays than bad ones, you’re being obtuse. It’s how bad and the timing of the bad ones.



Not being obtuse. He picked these. I and you don't know if you lined up every Jones play the whole game how many good ones vs bad ones he would have. This guy just cherry picked a few good ones and bad ones to give a balanced view, and you are jumping all over it like this proves something.

So let me give my personal opinion on those 2 "bad" Jones plays. First off neither guy was really open. I blame Garretts scheme here more than anything. He ran a little set of routes, and it seemed like Denver was sitting there waiting for it. Jones tried to throw it high, in a place where only Golladay/Rudolph could get it, so as to not risk a Int (smart move).

The two things I would critique Jones about are 2) the passes were obviously too high, so not good (but not an easy pass), and 2) could he have bought more time and looked back at the middle of the field to see if anyone was open. I think someone like Lamar, Murray, etc., would have tried to scramble a little and get back to the other side once he saw how tight the coverage was on Rudolph and Golladay. That could also lead to a sack too, so there really isn't a good answer here seeing that Denver D was sitting right there. So to me Garrett has to get more creative than this.



So the guy has to be wide open for Jones to have a chance? The final play Golladay is open for a touchdown if he throws right out of his break in the right spot. It’s the redzone you’re not going to get guys “really open”. All the good QBs turn that play into a touchdown.

Like I’ve said a million times, every QB on a roster in the NFL will have good throws in a game, Jones is the number 6 pick he needs to do it more than he does. I don’t need the two plays in the video to prove something, we have two previous years of it.

You’ll be making these same excuses in December so what’s really the point of having this conversation. What the Jones Cult considers “didn’t play bad” is subpar QB performance. Look at what Carr did last night, what’s your faith Jones can do that in more than 50% of the games this year?


Per PFF
Daniel Jones had the 19th most pass attempts last season and the 7th most incompletions that were deemed “receiver fault” with 36.
So now PFF stats are good?  
ajr2456 : 9/14/2021 10:53 am : link
You guys kill me. So off just film PFF can assign blame to the WR and since it’s not Jones’ fault per them we take it as gospel. But anyone who ever puts a mistake on Jones is wrong. Got it.

You guys need to have some pride man.
Ha ha...  
Jimmy Googs : 9/14/2021 10:54 am : link
I love that one!

Can you post that stat each week going forward?
Selectively using PFF stats should be a crime  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/14/2021 10:55 am : link
This place hates PFF when it says mean things about players we like, but we like PFF when it supports a claim about players we hate
Nah, I listen to you guys  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/14/2021 10:58 am : link
F PFF and their BS stats.
Another one per PFF  
Jimmy Googs : 9/14/2021 11:02 am : link
Dave Gettleman had the most 1st round picks at his disposal from 2018-2021, but none of the issues with the current roster are deemed his fault.
RE: Another one per PFF  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/14/2021 11:03 am : link
In comment 15366176 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Dave Gettleman had the most 1st round picks at his disposal from 2018-2021, but none of the issues with the current roster are deemed his fault.


I can't argue with that. Maybe PFF ain't so bad.
Citing  
Toth029 : 9/14/2021 5:35 pm : link
Sterling Shepard as your #1 Wipeout in your career does not give a promising stool to stand on - and I like Shep a lot.

Tate was good for a few games. Slayton was a good rookie year and underperformed his sophomore year to coincide with being injured. Engram? 11 drops. How is this supporting case supposed to back up your claim seriously? Especially if you want to include Barkley who's been healthy for under 8 games while Jones has been under center. The other guys used? The exciting Alfred Morris, Wayne Gallman, Jon Hilliman and the youthful Dion Lewis. What a crew!
RE: RE: ...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/14/2021 5:39 pm : link
In comment 15365426 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 15365351 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Jones looked like a different QB under Shurmur than he has with Garrett.



While he made lots of throws and some razzle dazzle that’s also where it got really crazy with all the turnovers. Shurmur let him play loose.


He was at least a productive QB on a league-average offense

Playing conservatively like this is simply losing in miserable fashion.

Eli tossed a ton of INTs too. If Coughlin had just neutered the offense to remove the risk of interceptions the Giants would never have gone anywhere.

If the way to get something out of jones is to let him play loose, then it's coaching malpractice not to. They will have gone 3 years with Jones and never learned what he is capable of.
RE: As a rookie Jones had 13 tds and 0 ints in the RZ  
HomerJones45 : 9/14/2021 6:23 pm : link
In comment 15365247 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
this offensive scheme is broken and unless there are major changes implemented by Judge the season is going down the tubes. If this offensive scheme remained I feel confident in saying it would serve whichever QB cycles in next poorly too.

Cycling Garrett out for someone else may make things better, like it did in Dallas, so I'd try that first.

btw the 4th and 6 was one of Jason Garrett's signature sticks routes. And not only that he got the play in so late it should have been a delay of game. The Bronco's DBs were literally in shell waiting to break on the ball around the goaline. It's hard to see in the 2nd screenshot because it's low res but the Bronco defenders hardly had to move and there were 2 of them breaking in on each NYG target regardless of where the throw went.

Link to the clip is below too.



https://twitter.com/bobbyskinner_/status/1437450025865449475?s=10 - ( New Window )
What Jones did as a rookie is no longer relevant. DC's have a book on Jones now- what he does well, what he doesn't do well, his tendencies etc; he's not a surprise anymore.
This place is crazy...  
EricJ : 9/14/2021 7:07 pm : link
apparently two things cannot be true at the same time here at BBI. We cannot have a bad play call and poor execution of that bad call all at the same time.

Here is the reality of what happened at the end of that drive..

We had first and goal and our Princeton coach calls a running play when we have not been able to run the ball at all.

Second and third down, he calls to over the shoulder jump balls which are low percentage. Our QB throws a bad pass on both plays.

I would bring in more wide outs and would spread the field. Thin out the defenders directly in front of Jones. Give him options on both sides of the field PLUS the option to run up the middle in the event that he sees the opening.
Watch those again and look at the O Line  
D HOS : 9/14/2021 11:52 pm : link
Those plays showed the pass blocking I think I saw all game.

Thomas seemed to be rock solid. Everyone else had good plays and bad plays, no one other than Thomas played consistently well. LG and RT seemed to have as many bad plays as good. Some of the bad plays, woof they were real bad.

Now back to the QB. On the run and fumble, why didn't he chew up grass directly to the stick on the right sideline? He's fast! He would have gotten there or gotten out of bounds, no dive necessary, no fumble. Instead he ran directly into two defenders, head first.
He has a little tunnel vision. Same as when he's throwing.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/15/2021 8:44 am : link
.
RE: RE: Greg put it best on another thread..  
HomerJones45 : 9/15/2021 9:09 am : link
In comment 15365764 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
In comment 15365528 Sean said:


Quote:


What part of Jones’ game thus far makes him warrant the 6th pick in the draft?



Jones throws one of best long balls in the NFL and has top end speed. Again...the guy set records as a rookie...why did he regress?
DC's have film on him and have adjusted accordingly. Dave Brown looked like a different qb his first year too. Lot's of qb's have had good rookie years and crashed once the opposition could study strengths and weaknesses.
I don't buy the argument the film argument  
Eric on Li : 9/15/2021 9:39 am : link
is that also why Darius Slayton is no longer outrunning DBs? They certainly aren't double covering him and we certainly aren't taking any shots to know one way or the other.

No amount of film should make it any easier to physically run with Darius Slayton 1 on 1 than it should make it any easier to stop a well thrown football - which still continue to see from Jones downfield whenever he gets the chance.

I have no doubt like all players defenses have picked up on tendencies and adjusted but I find that as the reason for regression a lot less compelling than the fundamental adjustments we've seen in this offense (specifically the short route combinations and all curls bs). Here's a good stat from Bobby Skinner:

Daniel Jones v. Broncos

Plays w/ 2+ 15 yard routes
12/14 214 yards 1 TD
15.2 Y/A

Plays w/ 1 or less 15 yard route
10/23 53 yards 2.3 Y/A
2 sacks

I just don't know how it's not glaringly obvious about the simple fact that the more of the field we use, the more space our receivers get. And that Jones can deliver an accurate football when players have space. Nobody is saying they need throw 30+ yard bombs every play. Just use the whole field even if the primary option is throwing underneath.
RE: I don't buy the argument the film argument  
BrettNYG10 : 9/15/2021 10:18 am : link
In comment 15367232 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
is that also why Darius Slayton is no longer outrunning DBs? They certainly aren't double covering him and we certainly aren't taking any shots to know one way or the other.

No amount of film should make it any easier to physically run with Darius Slayton 1 on 1 than it should make it any easier to stop a well thrown football - which still continue to see from Jones downfield whenever he gets the chance.

I have no doubt like all players defenses have picked up on tendencies and adjusted but I find that as the reason for regression a lot less compelling than the fundamental adjustments we've seen in this offense (specifically the short route combinations and all curls bs). Here's a good stat from Bobby Skinner:

Daniel Jones v. Broncos

Plays w/ 2+ 15 yard routes
12/14 214 yards 1 TD
15.2 Y/A

Plays w/ 1 or less 15 yard route
10/23 53 yards 2.3 Y/A
2 sacks

I just don't know how it's not glaringly obvious about the simple fact that the more of the field we use, the more space our receivers get. And that Jones can deliver an accurate football when players have space. Nobody is saying they need throw 30+ yard bombs every play. Just use the whole field even if the primary option is throwing underneath.


This is interesting stuff. Thanks for posting. Were the statistics up top accrued in garbage time? Wouldn't seem like it because he was only 10/19 in the 4th quarter.

I think Garrett's offense is a bad fit for Jones. He isn't a great thrower in short routes. Get guys deep and spread the field.
Jones was 6-6 for 60 yards on the last drive  
Greg from LI : 9/15/2021 10:28 am : link
or 6-7 if you count the spike to stop the clock. I honestly don't know - are those counted as incompletions?
RE: Jones was 6-6 for 60 yards on the last drive  
BrettNYG10 : 9/15/2021 10:44 am : link
In comment 15367283 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
or 6-7 if you count the spike to stop the clock. I honestly don't know - are those counted as incompletions?


Yes, they are.
ok  
Greg from LI : 9/15/2021 10:47 am : link
So, without the garbage time drive, Jones was 16-30, 206
RE: ok  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/15/2021 11:01 am : link
In comment 15367311 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
So, without the garbage time drive, Jones was 16-30, 206


At halftime Jones had a 110 QBR
....  
BrettNYG10 : 9/15/2021 11:02 am : link
I thought Jones had a solid, not great, first half. I thought he sucked in the second half.
RE: RE: ok  
Section331 : 9/15/2021 11:02 am : link
In comment 15367329 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
In comment 15367311 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


So, without the garbage time drive, Jones was 16-30, 206



At halftime Jones had a 110 QBR


So if we stop the game at halftime, we're in great shape.
RE: RE: ok  
bw in dc : 9/15/2021 11:09 am : link
In comment 15367329 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
In comment 15367311 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


So, without the garbage time drive, Jones was 16-30, 206



At halftime Jones had a 110 QBR


QBR doesn't go over 100.

I think you mean passer rating. Which isn't the best metric.
look I am as mad as anyone  
djm : 9/15/2021 11:20 am : link
and my patience with this team has never been lower, but we do need to see more games before we declare anything. I'm guilty of this too, I get it, but we played one game here.

I'd probably be better off going to sleep for the next 3 months and not watching this crap, they likely are what they are, but yeah, it's early.
RE: RE: RE: ok  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/15/2021 11:20 am : link
In comment 15367338 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15367329 Thunderstruck27 said:


Quote:


In comment 15367311 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


So, without the garbage time drive, Jones was 16-30, 206



At halftime Jones had a 110 QBR



QBR doesn't go over 100.

I think you mean passer rating. Which isn't the best metric.


Yeah, passer rating, thanks. My bad. I know it can be a wonky stat but in this instance since there were no INTs or big negative plays I think it's a pretty accurate measure of his performance. I mean..usually the first couple of drives are scripted plays so it is really about execution on offense. We only had 3 possessions
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