Your frustration is like the rest of ours. I am hoping that the lack of playing time through camp was some of the rust. But if that defense plays like that the rest of the year my 2-15 prediction will be fact.
Hard to blame the offense when it felt like they had the ball 4 times...
Quick question: if Gettleman is retired/fired at end of season, should his replacement be given the power to jettison Joe Judge and his coaching staff if he do desires?
Honestly, Peppers should have been one of the Duds
I agree overall. At the game we were all dumbfounded as to why Jackson played basically the entire game. Bridgewater continually threw at him and his receiver seemed to beat him every time. He looked slow and poor reactions. It could have been even worse were it not for several easy drops by the Denver receivers (one, a sure td). He does not look like he is playing at full speed.
Q....does the offensive scheme protect or hinder Jones ?
I think the one credible fear and gripe NYG fans can yell from their balconies if they feel the need to do so revolves around the fact that it really seems like we are watching the same issues year after year. A vanilla offense, a shaky-at-best offensive line, minimal pass rush, and a defense that struggles in clutch scenarios.
I think the one credible fear and gripe NYG fans can yell from their balconies if they feel the need to do so revolves around the fact that it really seems like we are watching the same issues year after year. A vanilla offense, a shaky-at-best offensive line, minimal pass rush, and a defense that struggles in clutch scenarios.
what is happening quick enough. They have no right tackle. Their 2nd round pick playing right guard sucks donkey dick. This team is a complete disaster and that’s not even getting into the other pieces of puke playing.
Thanks Sy, sorry you had to watch that game more than once
what do you make of Ojulari missing the sack on 3rd and 5 at the start of the 3rd quarter drive and then McKinney missing the sack on 4th and 1 on the TD play? Did the team just not practice tackling during training camp? I don't know what the Giants can do to fix Jones, the OL or 50 other problems they had on Sunday but tackling seems like an obvious problem that needs to just be better in order to be competitive.
As depressing as that was to read I always appreciate your analysis.
I get the sense that you don’t feel too confident in Gettleman nor Garrett, Even though you don’t explicitly state it? Do you think they are a huge crux of the issues we face? Or does the issue stem further into the FO?
I too am getting sick of the same shit different year, I appreciate all your write ups. Very discouraging take on Jones, I see some glimpses of brilliance, and then yeah lots of hesitancy and rookie like mistakes. I still am not seeing any improvements from where our offense left off last year, and with all the $ spent there if they don’t turn it around soon I would hope Garrett gets axed sooner than later.
pre draft analysis on Jones. His opinion hasn’t changed about his short Cummings . Ditto Hernandez. The scouting dept is putrid and DG isn’t helping matters. He really wanted Herbert. When he went back to school he went to his backup plan- Jones, a player he only saw in person AT THE SENIOR bowl. Not exactly the way you draft a QB.
And yet this feels like how the Giants went in with this OL
there seems to be this narrative that the defense needs to be the backbone of this team. and that if the defense doesn't win these games, the team has no chance.
barkley was the 2nd pick in the draft. jones the number 6 pick in the draft. thomas the number 4 pick. shep is making 10+M. golloday is making 17M. toney was drafted in the first round. rudolph was signed for 7M a year. the team has invested significat draft capital in the offensive line. and the expectation for the offense is this low? how absolutely pathetic. the offense is supposed to be complimentary to the defense this year and be able to put up points. the expectation for this unit is a joke and the front office should all be fired immediately if that is the expectation for this team
I think the one credible fear and gripe NYG fans can yell from their balconies if they feel the need to do so revolves around the fact that it really seems like we are watching the same issues year after year. A vanilla offense, a shaky-at-best offensive line, minimal pass rush, and a defense that struggles in clutch scenarios.
Or, as I said, same shit different season.
+2.
I thought that the 4th & 2 play at midfield towards the end
of the half was the biggest play of the game. If the Giants make a stop there, they have great field position and a chance to go up two scores. It was really risky and Denver got away with it.
Dexter Lawrence got held twice on one big fourth down conversion with no call.
Gets me angrier and angrier the more I think about it. Forget creativity there’s little to no logic in some of the plays they ran. Garrett, I loved this hire, but this shit is getting old. I mean you have Barkley barely ready and instead of bringing in booker to grind out some yards while you let Barkley get his feet wet running routes and sucking in coverage, nope, run Barkley into the dirty messy shitty line a few times, it literally looked obligatory....what the fuck are Garrett and judge doing to this offense?
RE: I thought that the 4th & 2 play at midfield towards the end
of the half was the biggest play of the game. If the Giants make a stop there, they have great field position and a chance to go up two scores. It was really risky and Denver got away with it.
Dexter Lawrence got held twice on one big fourth down conversion with no call.
I agree- that particular 4th and 2 was absolutely huge. I think there was like 1 minute left in the half and we are up 7-3. We stop them, who knows. That’s the way it was all day.
That's impossible he's a bust according to one half of a preseason game.
Where are all those people who bashed the Giants for not taking Becton over Thomas. Not only did Becton get hurt yet again he struggled mightily yesterday.
but he has to start moving forward. Sure there will be growing pains but he will make less mistakes than Solder. The Giants need to find out if Peart is the answer at RT or a swing tackle.
That's impossible he's a bust according to one half of a preseason game.
Where are all those people who bashed the Giants for not taking Becton over Thomas. Not only did Becton get hurt yet again he struggled mightily yesterday.
One game doesn't mean anything. He's the 4th pick in the draft. String together a few games and we can revisit it. The expectation for him is at minimum, solid starting left tackle. Let's see it.
that this was the FIRST game the entire team played together.
limited practice, even more limited in preseason, and half of the skill players didnt even practice until last week.
I'm not saying the Giants are good or bad but I'm not sure how you can't take that in when making all your self entitled overly agitated opinions.
Lets see what a loss and a few days of practice brings Thursday.
I really think some of you should numb yourself for 4 weeks because there is no fucking way we know what this team is yet.
I buy that for some elements, but the defense was not missing players all throughout camp. They were supposed to be ready to go, and they laid an egg. Considering that they're supposed to be the anchor the team can rely on knowing the offensive uncertainty, it's rightfully deeply disappointing.
that this was the FIRST game the entire team played together.
limited practice, even more limited in preseason, and half of the skill players didnt even practice until last week.
I'm not saying the Giants are good or bad but I'm not sure how you can't take that in when making all your self entitled overly agitated opinions.
Lets see what a loss and a few days of practice brings Thursday.
I really think some of you should numb yourself for 4 weeks because there is no fucking way we know what this team is yet.
I buy that for some elements, but the defense was not missing players all throughout camp. They were supposed to be ready to go, and they laid an egg. Considering that they're supposed to be the anchor the team can rely on knowing the offensive uncertainty, it's rightfully deeply disappointing.
which goes to show you it takes more then just a few weeks of practices to really figure yourself out.
anyone who ever played modified sports knows this.
"(1) I don’t want to write up, for the 1,000th time, how little Week 1 means in the grand scheme of things. A successful season in 2021 is 8-9 or 9-8. They are 0-1 with 16 games left and it was a frustrating game to watch, absolutely. Green Bay lost to the Jameis Winston-led Saints 38-3. Buffalo lost at home to the .500-at best Steelers by a touchdown. Tennessee lost 38-13, at home. I think the one credible fear and gripe NYG fans can yell from their balconies if they feel the need to do so revolves around the fact that it really seems like we are watching the same issues year after year. A vanilla offense, a shaky-at-best offensive line, minimal pass rush, and a defense that struggles in clutch scenarios."
But they really need to win against Washington no matter what, sucks that it's on a short week.
In regards to Jones -- absolutely he muffed up badly. Very, very, very badly. Inexcusable what he did. And if he can't fix his turnover issue then for sure he's a bust for us.
With that said, you go on to mention
1-- How awful the OLine remains.
2-- How awful the Tight End Played.
3-- How rusty SB is.
If everything is this awful, and I assume when you have mentioned how Jones doesn’t seem to react well quickly in reading things so having him roll out and then try to make it play other than a quick 1st read pass or make a dash for it that Jones is not best suited to make plays on the run, then how can he ever sustain any ability to play well?
If his frontline sucks – he’s a dead duck, isn’t he? His strengths when going out of the pocket are only making a quick pass or quick run. SO for a young QB – with such an awful OLine you expect him to do well enough? How is that possible?
that this was the FIRST game the entire team played together.
limited practice, even more limited in preseason, and half of the skill players didnt even practice until last week.
I'm not saying the Giants are good or bad but I'm not sure how you can't take that in when making all your self entitled overly agitated opinions.
Lets see what a loss and a few days of practice brings Thursday.
I really think some of you should numb yourself for 4 weeks because there is no fucking way we know what this team is yet.
Maybe this is your 1st year following Giants football?
But maybe others are reacting the way they are because the Giants have been this way 7 of the past 8 years, and why should they expect anything different? Because you say-so after watching your 1st year of Giants football?
Quick question: if Gettleman is retired/fired at end of season, should his replacement be given the power to jettison Joe Judge and his coaching staff if he do desires?
I strongly believe every Head Coach should get a minimum of 3 full seasons. Throw in Judge's first season was a pandemic-year AND this team has gotten better under his leadership...no, he should not be replaced if a new GM comes in.
RE: Q....does the offensive scheme protect or hinder Jones ?
I feel he plays with safety wheels ....but not sure if it to protects him or hurts his production.
Without having full knowledge of what goes on between closed doors, my opinion is yes, the scheme appears to vanilla compared to what I see across the league. In addition, situational play calling doesn't help either.
RE: Thanks Sy, sorry you had to watch that game more than once
what do you make of Ojulari missing the sack on 3rd and 5 at the start of the 3rd quarter drive and then McKinney missing the sack on 4th and 1 on the TD play? Did the team just not practice tackling during training camp? I don't know what the Giants can do to fix Jones, the OL or 50 other problems they had on Sunday but tackling seems like an obvious problem that needs to just be better in order to be competitive.
I think it is a product of NFL defenders being hesitant to truly go after a QB. Those were frustrating plays and while some credit does go to Bridgewater for playing on a Steve Young-type manner, it appears some guys just have that one second hesitation before going after the passer.
As depressing as that was to read I always appreciate your analysis.
I get the sense that you don’t feel too confident in Gettleman nor Garrett, Even though you don’t explicitly state it? Do you think they are a huge crux of the issues we face? Or does the issue stem further into the FO?
I too am getting sick of the same shit different year, I appreciate all your write ups. Very discouraging take on Jones, I see some glimpses of brilliance, and then yeah lots of hesitancy and rookie like mistakes. I still am not seeing any improvements from where our offense left off last year, and with all the $ spent there if they don’t turn it around soon I would hope Garrett gets axed sooner than later.
I didn't like the Garrett hire. I think his scheme can always be "good enough" when everything is lined up for him, but he doesn't create much on his own and he won't ever create a bigger result than the sum of his parts. The best offensive minds do. Although I do think DG is a solid pro personnel guy and always has been. I think he he best reserved for that role only, however.
that this was the FIRST game the entire team played together.
limited practice, even more limited in preseason, and half of the skill players didnt even practice until last week.
I'm not saying the Giants are good or bad but I'm not sure how you can't take that in when making all your self entitled overly agitated opinions.
Lets see what a loss and a few days of practice brings Thursday.
I really think some of you should numb yourself for 4 weeks because there is no fucking way we know what this team is yet.
I buy that for some elements, but the defense was not missing players all throughout camp. They were supposed to be ready to go, and they laid an egg. Considering that they're supposed to be the anchor the team can rely on knowing the offensive uncertainty, it's rightfully deeply disappointing.
which goes to show you it takes more then just a few weeks of practices to really figure yourself out.
anyone who ever played modified sports knows this.
They can't afford a few weeks. This is a prison of their own making. People could lose their jobs with a bad first half of the season.
His play calling is horrendous and does not allow for any creativity. That being said, Joe Judge cannot be blind to this. Do you think Freddie Kitchens gets a louder voice in the room?
Sy started his review in the right place: Teddy Bridgwater had a very good game and for a journeyman is a decent quarterback. Also, last week I read a couple of pundit's picks for the season and at least one of them picked the Broncos for a wildcard place.
I'm confident the defense will bounce back, but offensively it all looked just so familiar. I can't see this OLine ever being any more than just okay, and to get the most out of Saquon, that's simply not good enough. Dave Gettleman arrived in New York full of talk about hog mollies, and he just hasn't sorted it out. I want him gone.
but he has to start moving forward. Sure there will be growing pains but he will make less mistakes than Solder. The Giants need to find out if Peart is the answer at RT or a swing tackle.
I think many are judging Peart's performance based on the one play where Von Miller ran by him. He clearly had the snap count wrong, as he never got out of his stance. A screw up he has to correct, no doubt, but hardly an indictment of his ability to play the position.
when when Garrett goes at the end of the season, Jones probably goes too, so we won't have to worry about Jones learning a new system again...
If this team continues to falter, Garret will be relieved of play calling. Way before the end of the season. Going 0-3 with 3 putrid showings would force it i think.
The problem with Garrett is ultimately predictability
He just makes things easy for the defense. He is deadset with "staying on schedule". It feels like his goal on every fresh set of downs is to get to 3rd and 3, not to move the offense down the field. So unless we're incredibly efficient on first down to where we are in 2nd and short situations, he's not going to take any shots. Also, I'm speaking a little above my paygrade here when it comes to route combinations but it doesn't feel like he's challenging the 2nd level defenders and safeties into making decisions. A lot of this is running too many stop routes which is mitigating our guys ability to create YAC opportunities too, which is dumb when you have Engram and Shephard. The worst part to me is his playcalling on these 3rd and manageable situations - EVERY route is directly to the sticks and the defense knows it. They're just sitting on this stuff. Not to mention you can't expect to convert 3-4 of these on every single drive to score a TD. Inevitably a throw will be off, a WR will cut his route a half yard too short or a defender will make a play. There's zero margin for error on these 10+ play drives.
The Toney shit was just bizarre. Did he hear the calls to have more motion and be more creative and his idea was that? Putting an obvious gadget guy on the field, flashing a big neon sign on him running him around the backfield then getting him the ball right at the snap isn't creative. It's obvious. Why not have him on the field a little, put some looks on tape where you don't clearly go to him to set yourself up for later in the season? Maybe motion him in a little as a decoy to make a defender hesitate a little to create some space for Barkley? There are other ways to get him involved or set him up for later in the season than some bullshit sandlot gadget play.
I think anyone who reviews games like this should get a medal
He just makes things easy for the defense. He is deadset with "staying on schedule". It feels like his goal on every fresh set of downs is to get to 3rd and 3, not to move the offense down the field. So unless we're incredibly efficient on first down to where we are in 2nd and short situations, he's not going to take any shots. Also, I'm speaking a little above my paygrade here when it comes to route combinations but it doesn't feel like he's challenging the 2nd level defenders and safeties into making decisions. A lot of this is running too many stop routes which is mitigating our guys ability to create YAC opportunities too, which is dumb when you have Engram and Shephard. The worst part to me is his playcalling on these 3rd and manageable situations - EVERY route is directly to the sticks and the defense knows it. They're just sitting on this stuff. Not to mention you can't expect to convert 3-4 of these on every single drive to score a TD. Inevitably a throw will be off, a WR will cut his route a half yard too short or a defender will make a play. There's zero margin for error on these 10+ play drives.
The Toney shit was just bizarre. Did he hear the calls to have more motion and be more creative and his idea was that? Putting an obvious gadget guy on the field, flashing a big neon sign on him running him around the backfield then getting him the ball right at the snap isn't creative. It's obvious. Why not have him on the field a little, put some looks on tape where you don't clearly go to him to set yourself up for later in the season? Maybe motion him in a little as a decoy to make a defender hesitate a little to create some space for Barkley? There are other ways to get him involved or set him up for later in the season than some bullshit sandlot gadget play.
Exactly and this reminds me of a play in the first half. It was 3rd and 2 and they went empty backfield. I mean at least make the D think about the run?
that this was the FIRST game the entire team played together.
limited practice, even more limited in preseason, and half of the skill players didnt even practice until last week.
I'm not saying the Giants are good or bad but I'm not sure how you can't take that in when making all your self entitled overly agitated opinions.
Lets see what a loss and a few days of practice brings Thursday.
I really think some of you should numb yourself for 4 weeks because there is no fucking way we know what this team is yet.
Maybe this is your 1st year following Giants football?
But maybe others are reacting the way they are because the Giants have been this way 7 of the past 8 years, and why should they expect anything different? Because you say-so after watching your 1st year of Giants football?
is blaming the offensive coordinator. I believe this has been done with every offensive coordinator going back 20 or 30 years.
OC's have to work with the personnel they have. It's not like Garrett, who was a qb and head coach in the League before getting this gig isn't familiar with offense. If you feel he isn't "creative" (whatever that is supposed to mean) or is "too conservative", take a look at the strengths and weaknesses of the players, and the strengths and weaknesses of the team units.
RE: RE: RE: RE: can we all just take in consideration
that this was the FIRST game the entire team played together.
limited practice, even more limited in preseason, and half of the skill players didnt even practice until last week.
I'm not saying the Giants are good or bad but I'm not sure how you can't take that in when making all your self entitled overly agitated opinions.
Lets see what a loss and a few days of practice brings Thursday.
I really think some of you should numb yourself for 4 weeks because there is no fucking way we know what this team is yet.
I buy that for some elements, but the defense was not missing players all throughout camp. They were supposed to be ready to go, and they laid an egg. Considering that they're supposed to be the anchor the team can rely on knowing the offensive uncertainty, it's rightfully deeply disappointing.
which goes to show you it takes more then just a few weeks of practices to really figure yourself out.
anyone who ever played modified sports knows this.
They can't afford a few weeks. This is a prison of their own making. People could lose their jobs with a bad first half of the season.
right but you do realize the NFLPA restricts practice time before and during the season, and injuries need to be managed so they don't become nagging.
is blaming the offensive coordinator. I believe this has been done with every offensive coordinator going back 20 or 30 years.
OC's have to work with the personnel they have. It's not like Garrett, who was a qb and head coach in the League before getting this gig isn't familiar with offense. If you feel he isn't "creative" (whatever that is supposed to mean) or is "too conservative", take a look at the strengths and weaknesses of the players, and the strengths and weaknesses of the team units.
This is lazy. The Shurmur offense with a rookie Daniel Jones and arguably worse personnel ranked 19th in 2019. The Giants were nearly dead last in a year where offenses were breaking records last year. This isn't just a Giants fan thing either, it's a pretty common opinion when you get outside the Giants bubble. Hell, just watch another game or throw on the 2019 Giants offense with Jones. Just off the top of my head look at the MNF game last night. Gruden isn't this creative forward-thinking offensive mind but they won the game on a walk-off kill shot in OT when everybody thought they were trying to get 3 yards. Earlier in the game they ran a double move in the redzone with Hunter Renfrow against a zero blitz where most corners are expecting a quick pass that netted a key PI that resulted in a score. He's throwing in a wrinkle every now and then. What is Garrett doing on every single 3rd down? Stick routes at the first down markers.
We do have other problems - mainly the QB and some other talent. When taking into account the competition, the defense may have been worse if we're just looking at week 1 as well. They earned a little bit of slack last year though. However, my focus is on Garrett and Judge as relates to the scheme because so far it looks like nothing was done there to fix an offense that was completely broken last year. In terms of personnel, their attention may have been misguided but they at least made an attempt there. In terms of player development, additional coaches were brought on to develop the players. They identified some problems and put in a plan of action. So far in terms of the scheme and overall philosophy? It doesn't look like they did anything. It's preseason and 1 week but that's all we have to talk about right now so it's fair game. Just banking on a splash signing, a RB returning from a major injury and offensive progression is a little arrogant and very foolish. It wasn't going to fix an offense that was so far behind the rest of the league.
that's the same thing I thought as well watching that last night. Carr isn't a QB that will blow your doors off, behind Darren Waller it's a mediocre at best WR group in Ruggs/Renfrow/Edwards, and they replaced 3/5ths of their OL this offseason, while also losing an OL mid game last night. That passing attack put up 435 yards on a good Ravens D, it was refreshing some of the offensive scheming, especially the Waller game tying TD (everyone knew that's where they were going), and how open he was due to a great 3 man pattern.
Can you comment on how Jones appears to be doing at the LOS pre snap? I wonder if he’s getting better at reading NFL defenses and if he’s getting better at making checks in Garrett’s system.
I thought part of the attraction with Jones was that he was smart and had a high football IQ. But I just haven’t seen it - especially as a high IQ might translate to wins.
up to that game as well. The way they got the ball in space to Drake out of the backfield, would be how I'd love to mimic with Barkley. Lots of motioning him in and out of the backfield, and quick passes where often it was Drake 1 on 1 in space with a linebacker that he's too quick for. 5 catches for 59 yards was a nice night for him.
I was pretty much saying a lot of the same things.
I have been on the Daniel Jones bandwagon since we drafted him but this game really has me scratching my head. I cant keep making excuses for him. The OL was not the problem here. The fumble was just awful, it was 1st down no need to dive there. Slide and take a 6 yard gain. That one play cost us the opportunity to win this game in my opinion. If it was 3rd or 4th down you could understand but not on 1st down. No need to put your body in that situation. I like the kid and really want him to be the guy but the excuses are over. He doesnt seem to be getting better, hes the same guy.
I was pretty much saying a lot of the same things.
I have been on the Daniel Jones bandwagon since we drafted him but this game really has me scratching my head. I cant keep making excuses for him. The OL was not the problem here. The fumble was just awful, it was 1st down no need to dive there. Slide and take a 6 yard gain. That one play cost us the opportunity to win this game in my opinion. If it was 3rd or 4th down you could understand but not on 1st down. No need to put your body in that situation. I like the kid and really want him to be the guy but the excuses are over. He doesnt seem to be getting better, hes the same guy.
I was pretty much saying a lot of the same things.
I have been on the Daniel Jones bandwagon since we drafted him but this game really has me scratching my head. I cant keep making excuses for him. The OL was not the problem here. The fumble was just awful, it was 1st down no need to dive there. Slide and take a 6 yard gain. That one play cost us the opportunity to win this game in my opinion. If it was 3rd or 4th down you could understand but not on 1st down. No need to put your body in that situation. I like the kid and really want him to be the guy but the excuses are over. He doesnt seem to be getting better, hes the same guy.
The right side of the OLine was absolutely a problem. They were awful and the fumble was awful.
is blaming the offensive coordinator. I believe this has been done with every offensive coordinator going back 20 or 30 years.
OC's have to work with the personnel they have. It's not like Garrett, who was a qb and head coach in the League before getting this gig isn't familiar with offense. If you feel he isn't "creative" (whatever that is supposed to mean) or is "too conservative", take a look at the strengths and weaknesses of the players, and the strengths and weaknesses of the team units.
I disagree. That is too easy a blanket statement when Garrett was knocked for his scheme and plans with the Cowboys and all of their talent..
Garrett deserves a ton fo blame starting with the 1st down play at the Broncos 30 running a jet sweep to KT when everyone in the stands, on the field, back in Dallas knew when he went in motion he was getting the ball. That was a HORRIBLE call, horrible choice and even worse set up (no Barkley in at the time, 1st down after a long pass paly, short side of the field, towards Miller)... That set the tone for the day right there. We had a chance to dictate the game and we blew it!
Seriously, how can anyone defend Garrett when seeing that play. So many things wrong right from the start:
Shotgun- immediately limit your running options and is a passive running formation.
Players on the field- No Barkley, so right away I am not overly worried about Booker. KT is out wide, first appearance and knowing he hasn't played or practiced much you know this has a HIGH probability that he will get the ball. Two TE's - again you let them know you are running one way or another.
Direction of play- the play is to the short side of the field, towards their best defender and one of the best defenders in the league. Your lead blockers are a RT who didn't play last year and a TE who barely is off the PUP list.
Point in the Game- you have just made a big 42 yard play and it is early in the game. You have a chance to really put the Broncos on their heels. It is 1st down at their 30. The passive alignment, passive (in terms of physicality) play call all at a point where you should be dictating pace and strength.
Design in execution- just like Baldy says, is the play just blown or is it designed poorly but either way the design and execution are crap. If Rudolph did what he was supposed to (meaning if that is what he was supposed to do) then Solder clearly didn't know what he was doing. But, the design, like many of our plays is overly complicated where guys are engaging on one, then moving off to engage another (but solely, not one double to another double), leaving the chance open that the blocker might not get off the first block in time to be the lead elsewhere...
The whole thing was pure crap. It isn't whining after a game about the play calls, it is 100% the wrong call, the wrong time and with everyone on the field knowing it was coming because you made it so freaking obvious!
is blaming the offensive coordinator. I believe this has been done with every offensive coordinator going back 20 or 30 years.
OC's have to work with the personnel they have. It's not like Garrett, who was a qb and head coach in the League before getting this gig isn't familiar with offense. If you feel he isn't "creative" (whatever that is supposed to mean) or is "too conservative", take a look at the strengths and weaknesses of the players, and the strengths and weaknesses of the team units.
This is lazy. The Shurmur offense with a rookie Daniel Jones and arguably worse personnel ranked 19th in 2019. The Giants were nearly dead last in a year where offenses were breaking records last year. This isn't just a Giants fan thing either, it's a pretty common opinion when you get outside the Giants bubble. Hell, just watch another game or throw on the 2019 Giants offense with Jones. Just off the top of my head look at the MNF game last night. Gruden isn't this creative forward-thinking offensive mind but they won the game on a walk-off kill shot in OT when everybody thought they were trying to get 3 yards. Earlier in the game they ran a double move in the redzone with Hunter Renfrow against a zero blitz where most corners are expecting a quick pass that netted a key PI that resulted in a score. He's throwing in a wrinkle every now and then. What is Garrett doing on every single 3rd down? Stick routes at the first down markers.
We do have other problems - mainly the QB and some other talent. When taking into account the competition, the defense may have been worse if we're just looking at week 1 as well. They earned a little bit of slack last year though. However, my focus is on Garrett and Judge as relates to the scheme because so far it looks like nothing was done there to fix an offense that was completely broken last year. In terms of personnel, their attention may have been misguided but they at least made an attempt there. In terms of player development, additional coaches were brought on to develop the players. They identified some problems and put in a plan of action. So far in terms of the scheme and overall philosophy? It doesn't look like they did anything. It's preseason and 1 week but that's all we have to talk about right now so it's fair game. Just banking on a splash signing, a RB returning from a major injury and offensive progression is a little arrogant and very foolish. It wasn't going to fix an offense that was so far behind the rest of the league.
It was an observation based on long experience on this site. Fans think there is some magic scheme that will fix everything. Forget 2019. Jones was a surprise and Barkley was healthy. The surprise was over starting last season after DC's had an opportunity to dissect his game. He now must show that he can overcome what the DC's have rigged up against him. So far, he hasn't and his career as a starter is at stake.
Graham may have the same issue. He was canned in Miami after one season yet the narrative about him was that he was the second coming of Phil Bengsten. A capable OC, and Shurmur is a capable OC, was able to spot opportunities in Graham's dispositions. You can bet other teams are going to try the same things- can Graham adjust?
Just banking on a "splash" signing?? The narrative was that the receivers stunk, and Jones needed "weapons", including Barkley. So, they signed a top free agent receiver and had the second choice in the whole draft coming back. Were they supposed to just ignore those players? Did you want journeyman Booker to play the majority of snaps. You think DC's are in fear of CJ Board?
Your Raider examples are nothing more than a species of "the play not called definitely would have worked." We took a "kill shot" against the Broncos which resulted in a 43 yard gain. We run double moves. Frankly, all the signs point to the offense being limited by a) the qb, b) the lack of multiple good receiving options and c) a rust laden #1 back. Let's hope a game or two improves all three areas.
Hard to blame the offense when it felt like they had the ball 4 times...
Quick question: if Gettleman is retired/fired at end of season, should his replacement be given the power to jettison Joe Judge and his coaching staff if he do desires?
Peppers was downright awful yesterday.
Or, as I said, same shit different season.
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I think the one credible fear and gripe NYG fans can yell from their balconies if they feel the need to do so revolves around the fact that it really seems like we are watching the same issues year after year. A vanilla offense, a shaky-at-best offensive line, minimal pass rush, and a defense that struggles in clutch scenarios.
Or, as I said, same shit different season.
My thoughts exactly. That’s what’s nauseating.
I get the sense that you don’t feel too confident in Gettleman nor Garrett, Even though you don’t explicitly state it? Do you think they are a huge crux of the issues we face? Or does the issue stem further into the FO?
I too am getting sick of the same shit different year, I appreciate all your write ups. Very discouraging take on Jones, I see some glimpses of brilliance, and then yeah lots of hesitancy and rookie like mistakes. I still am not seeing any improvements from where our offense left off last year, and with all the $ spent there if they don’t turn it around soon I would hope Garrett gets axed sooner than later.
barkley was the 2nd pick in the draft. jones the number 6 pick in the draft. thomas the number 4 pick. shep is making 10+M. golloday is making 17M. toney was drafted in the first round. rudolph was signed for 7M a year. the team has invested significat draft capital in the offensive line. and the expectation for the offense is this low? how absolutely pathetic. the offense is supposed to be complimentary to the defense this year and be able to put up points. the expectation for this unit is a joke and the front office should all be fired immediately if that is the expectation for this team
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I think the one credible fear and gripe NYG fans can yell from their balconies if they feel the need to do so revolves around the fact that it really seems like we are watching the same issues year after year. A vanilla offense, a shaky-at-best offensive line, minimal pass rush, and a defense that struggles in clutch scenarios.
Or, as I said, same shit different season.
+2.
Dexter Lawrence got held twice on one big fourth down conversion with no call.
Dexter Lawrence got held twice on one big fourth down conversion with no call.
I agree- that particular 4th and 2 was absolutely huge. I think there was like 1 minute left in the half and we are up 7-3. We stop them, who knows. That’s the way it was all day.
Where are all those people who bashed the Giants for not taking Becton over Thomas. Not only did Becton get hurt yet again he struggled mightily yesterday.
Where are all those people who bashed the Giants for not taking Becton over Thomas. Not only did Becton get hurt yet again he struggled mightily yesterday.
One game doesn't mean anything. He's the 4th pick in the draft. String together a few games and we can revisit it. The expectation for him is at minimum, solid starting left tackle. Let's see it.
limited practice, even more limited in preseason, and half of the skill players didnt even practice until last week.
I'm not saying the Giants are good or bad but I'm not sure how you can't take that in when making all your self entitled overly agitated opinions.
Lets see what a loss and a few days of practice brings Thursday.
I really think some of you should numb yourself for 4 weeks because there is no fucking way we know what this team is yet.
limited practice, even more limited in preseason, and half of the skill players didnt even practice until last week.
I'm not saying the Giants are good or bad but I'm not sure how you can't take that in when making all your self entitled overly agitated opinions.
Lets see what a loss and a few days of practice brings Thursday.
I really think some of you should numb yourself for 4 weeks because there is no fucking way we know what this team is yet.
I buy that for some elements, but the defense was not missing players all throughout camp. They were supposed to be ready to go, and they laid an egg. Considering that they're supposed to be the anchor the team can rely on knowing the offensive uncertainty, it's rightfully deeply disappointing.
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that this was the FIRST game the entire team played together.
limited practice, even more limited in preseason, and half of the skill players didnt even practice until last week.
I'm not saying the Giants are good or bad but I'm not sure how you can't take that in when making all your self entitled overly agitated opinions.
Lets see what a loss and a few days of practice brings Thursday.
I really think some of you should numb yourself for 4 weeks because there is no fucking way we know what this team is yet.
I buy that for some elements, but the defense was not missing players all throughout camp. They were supposed to be ready to go, and they laid an egg. Considering that they're supposed to be the anchor the team can rely on knowing the offensive uncertainty, it's rightfully deeply disappointing.
which goes to show you it takes more then just a few weeks of practices to really figure yourself out.
anyone who ever played modified sports knows this.
"A vanilla offense, a shaky-at-best offensive line, minimal pass rush, and a defense that struggles in clutch scenarios."
GROUNDHOGS DAY!
I got the same feeling after the last preseason game -
Meet the new Giants, same as the old Giants.
But they really need to win against Washington no matter what, sucks that it's on a short week.
With that said, you go on to mention
1-- How awful the OLine remains.
2-- How awful the Tight End Played.
3-- How rusty SB is.
If everything is this awful, and I assume when you have mentioned how Jones doesn’t seem to react well quickly in reading things so having him roll out and then try to make it play other than a quick 1st read pass or make a dash for it that Jones is not best suited to make plays on the run, then how can he ever sustain any ability to play well?
If his frontline sucks – he’s a dead duck, isn’t he? His strengths when going out of the pocket are only making a quick pass or quick run. SO for a young QB – with such an awful OLine you expect him to do well enough? How is that possible?
limited practice, even more limited in preseason, and half of the skill players didnt even practice until last week.
I'm not saying the Giants are good or bad but I'm not sure how you can't take that in when making all your self entitled overly agitated opinions.
Lets see what a loss and a few days of practice brings Thursday.
I really think some of you should numb yourself for 4 weeks because there is no fucking way we know what this team is yet.
Maybe this is your 1st year following Giants football?
But maybe others are reacting the way they are because the Giants have been this way 7 of the past 8 years, and why should they expect anything different? Because you say-so after watching your 1st year of Giants football?
Mom let you stay up late tonight?
I still think 8-9 is doable. We shall see.
Quick question: if Gettleman is retired/fired at end of season, should his replacement be given the power to jettison Joe Judge and his coaching staff if he do desires?
I strongly believe every Head Coach should get a minimum of 3 full seasons. Throw in Judge's first season was a pandemic-year AND this team has gotten better under his leadership...no, he should not be replaced if a new GM comes in.
Without having full knowledge of what goes on between closed doors, my opinion is yes, the scheme appears to vanilla compared to what I see across the league. In addition, situational play calling doesn't help either.
I think it is a product of NFL defenders being hesitant to truly go after a QB. Those were frustrating plays and while some credit does go to Bridgewater for playing on a Steve Young-type manner, it appears some guys just have that one second hesitation before going after the passer.
I get the sense that you don’t feel too confident in Gettleman nor Garrett, Even though you don’t explicitly state it? Do you think they are a huge crux of the issues we face? Or does the issue stem further into the FO?
I too am getting sick of the same shit different year, I appreciate all your write ups. Very discouraging take on Jones, I see some glimpses of brilliance, and then yeah lots of hesitancy and rookie like mistakes. I still am not seeing any improvements from where our offense left off last year, and with all the $ spent there if they don’t turn it around soon I would hope Garrett gets axed sooner than later.
I didn't like the Garrett hire. I think his scheme can always be "good enough" when everything is lined up for him, but he doesn't create much on his own and he won't ever create a bigger result than the sum of his parts. The best offensive minds do. Although I do think DG is a solid pro personnel guy and always has been. I think he he best reserved for that role only, however.
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In comment 15365604 Rory said:
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that this was the FIRST game the entire team played together.
limited practice, even more limited in preseason, and half of the skill players didnt even practice until last week.
I'm not saying the Giants are good or bad but I'm not sure how you can't take that in when making all your self entitled overly agitated opinions.
Lets see what a loss and a few days of practice brings Thursday.
I really think some of you should numb yourself for 4 weeks because there is no fucking way we know what this team is yet.
I buy that for some elements, but the defense was not missing players all throughout camp. They were supposed to be ready to go, and they laid an egg. Considering that they're supposed to be the anchor the team can rely on knowing the offensive uncertainty, it's rightfully deeply disappointing.
which goes to show you it takes more then just a few weeks of practices to really figure yourself out.
anyone who ever played modified sports knows this.
They can't afford a few weeks. This is a prison of their own making. People could lose their jobs with a bad first half of the season.
I'm confident the defense will bounce back, but offensively it all looked just so familiar. I can't see this OLine ever being any more than just okay, and to get the most out of Saquon, that's simply not good enough. Dave Gettleman arrived in New York full of talk about hog mollies, and he just hasn't sorted it out. I want him gone.
jive with Judge getting the team better?
Can't have them both be true.
When this team has tangible evidence of being turned around, I'll be a Judge believer. Until then, same shit, different season.
I think many are judging Peart's performance based on the one play where Von Miller ran by him. He clearly had the snap count wrong, as he never got out of his stance. A screw up he has to correct, no doubt, but hardly an indictment of his ability to play the position.
Here's my summary:
Broncos>Giants
Bridgewater>Jones
Fangio>Judge
Fangio>Graham
Shurmur>Garret
The Toney shit was just bizarre. Did he hear the calls to have more motion and be more creative and his idea was that? Putting an obvious gadget guy on the field, flashing a big neon sign on him running him around the backfield then getting him the ball right at the snap isn't creative. It's obvious. Why not have him on the field a little, put some looks on tape where you don't clearly go to him to set yourself up for later in the season? Maybe motion him in a little as a decoy to make a defender hesitate a little to create some space for Barkley? There are other ways to get him involved or set him up for later in the season than some bullshit sandlot gadget play.
The Toney shit was just bizarre. Did he hear the calls to have more motion and be more creative and his idea was that? Putting an obvious gadget guy on the field, flashing a big neon sign on him running him around the backfield then getting him the ball right at the snap isn't creative. It's obvious. Why not have him on the field a little, put some looks on tape where you don't clearly go to him to set yourself up for later in the season? Maybe motion him in a little as a decoy to make a defender hesitate a little to create some space for Barkley? There are other ways to get him involved or set him up for later in the season than some bullshit sandlot gadget play.
Exactly and this reminds me of a play in the first half. It was 3rd and 2 and they went empty backfield. I mean at least make the D think about the run?
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that this was the FIRST game the entire team played together.
limited practice, even more limited in preseason, and half of the skill players didnt even practice until last week.
I'm not saying the Giants are good or bad but I'm not sure how you can't take that in when making all your self entitled overly agitated opinions.
Lets see what a loss and a few days of practice brings Thursday.
I really think some of you should numb yourself for 4 weeks because there is no fucking way we know what this team is yet.
Maybe this is your 1st year following Giants football?
But maybe others are reacting the way they are because the Giants have been this way 7 of the past 8 years, and why should they expect anything different? Because you say-so after watching your 1st year of Giants football?
Mom let you stay up late tonight?
I still think 8-9 is doable. We shall see.
yup, first game ever. nailed it
OC's have to work with the personnel they have. It's not like Garrett, who was a qb and head coach in the League before getting this gig isn't familiar with offense. If you feel he isn't "creative" (whatever that is supposed to mean) or is "too conservative", take a look at the strengths and weaknesses of the players, and the strengths and weaknesses of the team units.
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In comment 15365611 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 15365604 Rory said:
Quote:
that this was the FIRST game the entire team played together.
limited practice, even more limited in preseason, and half of the skill players didnt even practice until last week.
I'm not saying the Giants are good or bad but I'm not sure how you can't take that in when making all your self entitled overly agitated opinions.
Lets see what a loss and a few days of practice brings Thursday.
I really think some of you should numb yourself for 4 weeks because there is no fucking way we know what this team is yet.
I buy that for some elements, but the defense was not missing players all throughout camp. They were supposed to be ready to go, and they laid an egg. Considering that they're supposed to be the anchor the team can rely on knowing the offensive uncertainty, it's rightfully deeply disappointing.
which goes to show you it takes more then just a few weeks of practices to really figure yourself out.
anyone who ever played modified sports knows this.
They can't afford a few weeks. This is a prison of their own making. People could lose their jobs with a bad first half of the season.
right but you do realize the NFLPA restricts practice time before and during the season, and injuries need to be managed so they don't become nagging.
OC's have to work with the personnel they have. It's not like Garrett, who was a qb and head coach in the League before getting this gig isn't familiar with offense. If you feel he isn't "creative" (whatever that is supposed to mean) or is "too conservative", take a look at the strengths and weaknesses of the players, and the strengths and weaknesses of the team units.
This is lazy. The Shurmur offense with a rookie Daniel Jones and arguably worse personnel ranked 19th in 2019. The Giants were nearly dead last in a year where offenses were breaking records last year. This isn't just a Giants fan thing either, it's a pretty common opinion when you get outside the Giants bubble. Hell, just watch another game or throw on the 2019 Giants offense with Jones. Just off the top of my head look at the MNF game last night. Gruden isn't this creative forward-thinking offensive mind but they won the game on a walk-off kill shot in OT when everybody thought they were trying to get 3 yards. Earlier in the game they ran a double move in the redzone with Hunter Renfrow against a zero blitz where most corners are expecting a quick pass that netted a key PI that resulted in a score. He's throwing in a wrinkle every now and then. What is Garrett doing on every single 3rd down? Stick routes at the first down markers.
We do have other problems - mainly the QB and some other talent. When taking into account the competition, the defense may have been worse if we're just looking at week 1 as well. They earned a little bit of slack last year though. However, my focus is on Garrett and Judge as relates to the scheme because so far it looks like nothing was done there to fix an offense that was completely broken last year. In terms of personnel, their attention may have been misguided but they at least made an attempt there. In terms of player development, additional coaches were brought on to develop the players. They identified some problems and put in a plan of action. So far in terms of the scheme and overall philosophy? It doesn't look like they did anything. It's preseason and 1 week but that's all we have to talk about right now so it's fair game. Just banking on a splash signing, a RB returning from a major injury and offensive progression is a little arrogant and very foolish. It wasn't going to fix an offense that was so far behind the rest of the league.
If our HC does not know what Jones is and what his maximum potential is he should not be the HC. He knows. Don’t listen to what he tells the media.
I thought part of the attraction with Jones was that he was smart and had a high football IQ. But I just haven’t seen it - especially as a high IQ might translate to wins.
I have been on the Daniel Jones bandwagon since we drafted him but this game really has me scratching my head. I cant keep making excuses for him. The OL was not the problem here. The fumble was just awful, it was 1st down no need to dive there. Slide and take a 6 yard gain. That one play cost us the opportunity to win this game in my opinion. If it was 3rd or 4th down you could understand but not on 1st down. No need to put your body in that situation. I like the kid and really want him to be the guy but the excuses are over. He doesnt seem to be getting better, hes the same guy.
I have been on the Daniel Jones bandwagon since we drafted him but this game really has me scratching my head. I cant keep making excuses for him. The OL was not the problem here. The fumble was just awful, it was 1st down no need to dive there. Slide and take a 6 yard gain. That one play cost us the opportunity to win this game in my opinion. If it was 3rd or 4th down you could understand but not on 1st down. No need to put your body in that situation. I like the kid and really want him to be the guy but the excuses are over. He doesnt seem to be getting better, hes the same guy.
It was 3rd down that play.
I have been on the Daniel Jones bandwagon since we drafted him but this game really has me scratching my head. I cant keep making excuses for him. The OL was not the problem here. The fumble was just awful, it was 1st down no need to dive there. Slide and take a 6 yard gain. That one play cost us the opportunity to win this game in my opinion. If it was 3rd or 4th down you could understand but not on 1st down. No need to put your body in that situation. I like the kid and really want him to be the guy but the excuses are over. He doesnt seem to be getting better, hes the same guy.
The right side of the OLine was absolutely a problem. They were awful and the fumble was awful.
OC's have to work with the personnel they have. It's not like Garrett, who was a qb and head coach in the League before getting this gig isn't familiar with offense. If you feel he isn't "creative" (whatever that is supposed to mean) or is "too conservative", take a look at the strengths and weaknesses of the players, and the strengths and weaknesses of the team units.
I disagree. That is too easy a blanket statement when Garrett was knocked for his scheme and plans with the Cowboys and all of their talent..
Garrett deserves a ton fo blame starting with the 1st down play at the Broncos 30 running a jet sweep to KT when everyone in the stands, on the field, back in Dallas knew when he went in motion he was getting the ball. That was a HORRIBLE call, horrible choice and even worse set up (no Barkley in at the time, 1st down after a long pass paly, short side of the field, towards Miller)... That set the tone for the day right there. We had a chance to dictate the game and we blew it!
https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1438177863132487680?s=20
https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1438177863132487680?s=20
Seriously, how can anyone defend Garrett when seeing that play. So many things wrong right from the start:
Shotgun- immediately limit your running options and is a passive running formation.
Players on the field- No Barkley, so right away I am not overly worried about Booker. KT is out wide, first appearance and knowing he hasn't played or practiced much you know this has a HIGH probability that he will get the ball. Two TE's - again you let them know you are running one way or another.
Direction of play- the play is to the short side of the field, towards their best defender and one of the best defenders in the league. Your lead blockers are a RT who didn't play last year and a TE who barely is off the PUP list.
Point in the Game- you have just made a big 42 yard play and it is early in the game. You have a chance to really put the Broncos on their heels. It is 1st down at their 30. The passive alignment, passive (in terms of physicality) play call all at a point where you should be dictating pace and strength.
Design in execution- just like Baldy says, is the play just blown or is it designed poorly but either way the design and execution are crap. If Rudolph did what he was supposed to (meaning if that is what he was supposed to do) then Solder clearly didn't know what he was doing. But, the design, like many of our plays is overly complicated where guys are engaging on one, then moving off to engage another (but solely, not one double to another double), leaving the chance open that the blocker might not get off the first block in time to be the lead elsewhere...
The whole thing was pure crap. It isn't whining after a game about the play calls, it is 100% the wrong call, the wrong time and with everyone on the field knowing it was coming because you made it so freaking obvious!
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is blaming the offensive coordinator. I believe this has been done with every offensive coordinator going back 20 or 30 years.
OC's have to work with the personnel they have. It's not like Garrett, who was a qb and head coach in the League before getting this gig isn't familiar with offense. If you feel he isn't "creative" (whatever that is supposed to mean) or is "too conservative", take a look at the strengths and weaknesses of the players, and the strengths and weaknesses of the team units.
This is lazy. The Shurmur offense with a rookie Daniel Jones and arguably worse personnel ranked 19th in 2019. The Giants were nearly dead last in a year where offenses were breaking records last year. This isn't just a Giants fan thing either, it's a pretty common opinion when you get outside the Giants bubble. Hell, just watch another game or throw on the 2019 Giants offense with Jones. Just off the top of my head look at the MNF game last night. Gruden isn't this creative forward-thinking offensive mind but they won the game on a walk-off kill shot in OT when everybody thought they were trying to get 3 yards. Earlier in the game they ran a double move in the redzone with Hunter Renfrow against a zero blitz where most corners are expecting a quick pass that netted a key PI that resulted in a score. He's throwing in a wrinkle every now and then. What is Garrett doing on every single 3rd down? Stick routes at the first down markers.
We do have other problems - mainly the QB and some other talent. When taking into account the competition, the defense may have been worse if we're just looking at week 1 as well. They earned a little bit of slack last year though. However, my focus is on Garrett and Judge as relates to the scheme because so far it looks like nothing was done there to fix an offense that was completely broken last year. In terms of personnel, their attention may have been misguided but they at least made an attempt there. In terms of player development, additional coaches were brought on to develop the players. They identified some problems and put in a plan of action. So far in terms of the scheme and overall philosophy? It doesn't look like they did anything. It's preseason and 1 week but that's all we have to talk about right now so it's fair game. Just banking on a splash signing, a RB returning from a major injury and offensive progression is a little arrogant and very foolish. It wasn't going to fix an offense that was so far behind the rest of the league.
Graham may have the same issue. He was canned in Miami after one season yet the narrative about him was that he was the second coming of Phil Bengsten. A capable OC, and Shurmur is a capable OC, was able to spot opportunities in Graham's dispositions. You can bet other teams are going to try the same things- can Graham adjust?
Just banking on a "splash" signing?? The narrative was that the receivers stunk, and Jones needed "weapons", including Barkley. So, they signed a top free agent receiver and had the second choice in the whole draft coming back. Were they supposed to just ignore those players? Did you want journeyman Booker to play the majority of snaps. You think DC's are in fear of CJ Board?
Your Raider examples are nothing more than a species of "the play not called definitely would have worked." We took a "kill shot" against the Broncos which resulted in a 43 yard gain. We run double moves. Frankly, all the signs point to the offense being limited by a) the qb, b) the lack of multiple good receiving options and c) a rust laden #1 back. Let's hope a game or two improves all three areas.