I linked the audio below. For as polarizing as Lombardi is, I think he makes good points:
-The Giants can’t evaluate their talent
-Mara is a great guy, but he is far too loyal
-The Giants think Garrett is a good coach despite the fact he’s still running Norv Turner’s 1994 offense
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The Giants are stuck in time
A lot of truth here imo.
Link - (
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1. after ryan fumbel recovery, garrett called three BITCH MADE SOFT ASS plays. he was afraid to lose. previously, his excuse was poor OL play and no weapons. now what? The OL isnt good but they had only 2 instances where you were like omg block please. pass pro wasnt bad. and we def have weapons on offense now.
2. his redzone calls late in game when giants had chance to make it a one score game but ended up turning over on downs. there was ZERO creativity. he doesnt scheme ANYBODY open EVER. they were 4 dull ass calls that included to basic out routes, a run play, and curl. HORRIBLE fucking scheme in redzone with zero thought on how to get it done.
garrett officially sucks in my book.
1. after ryan fumbel recovery, garrett called three BITCH MADE SOFT ASS plays. he was afraid to lose. previously, his excuse was poor OL play and no weapons. now what? The OL isnt good but they had only 2 instances where you were like omg block please. pass pro wasnt bad. and we def have weapons on offense now.
2. his redzone calls late in game when giants had chance to make it a one score game but ended up turning over on downs. there was ZERO creativity. he doesnt scheme ANYBODY open EVER. they were 4 dull ass calls that included to basic out routes, a run play, and curl. HORRIBLE fucking scheme in redzone with zero thought on how to get it done.
garrett officially sucks in my book.
Coaching not to lose has lead to a high propensity of actual loses. That 3rddown to Rudolph swinging out instead of downfield with the zone cleared out,… oh boy🤮.
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yea. i think we have a lot of talent. I think jones could be good. but I really think we are hamstrung by garrett. I never felt this way but two things were last straw for me.
1. after ryan fumbel recovery, garrett called three BITCH MADE SOFT ASS plays. he was afraid to lose. previously, his excuse was poor OL play and no weapons. now what? The OL isnt good but they had only 2 instances where you were like omg block please. pass pro wasnt bad. and we def have weapons on offense now.
2. his redzone calls late in game when giants had chance to make it a one score game but ended up turning over on downs. there was ZERO creativity. he doesnt scheme ANYBODY open EVER. they were 4 dull ass calls that included to basic out routes, a run play, and curl. HORRIBLE fucking scheme in redzone with zero thought on how to get it done.
garrett officially sucks in my book.
Coaching not to lose has lead to a high propensity of actual loses. That 3rddown to Rudolph swinging out instead of downfield with the zone cleared out,… oh boy🤮.
I legit said after ryan take away, he comes 3 dogshit conservative calls and a punt
No. This is what his offense has become.
The biggest fallacy by fans of losing teams in any sport is that the players are all good enough and it's the coach that holds them back.
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yea. i think we have a lot of talent. I think jones could be good. but I really think we are hamstrung by garrett. I never felt this way but two things were last straw for me.
The biggest fallacy by fans of losing teams in any sport is that the players are all good enough and it's the coach that holds them back.
Yep. Especially since Coughlin, McAdoo & Shurmur were removed thinking it was a coaching issue. It’s far deeper.
That being said, the owner lacks vision or principles for the organization. The Giants are supposed to be built on defense - we've gone from 4-3 to 3-4 and now multiple D since TC left after 10+ years of 4-3 from Fassel to TC. We haven't drafted a top-end pass rusher in how many years. Just no backbone of an organization.
Yes, of course he is. What? Do you think Judge tells Garrett he wants something else run and Garret tells him to pound sand. Reakly?
These are easy words to print. Does he give any specific examples. Does he believe Judge is an idiot or Graham. Because that’s what this says. This staff has worked all over the NFL and college. Does that also make all the people who employed them idiots as well. Just asking for a friend.
These are easy words to print. Does he give any specific examples. Does he believe Judge is an idiot or Graham. Because that’s what this says. This staff has worked all over the NFL and college. Does that also make all the people who employed them idiots as well. Just asking for a friend.
As far as evaluating their own players, that holds at least a little water when you consider what's been going on at OL. The kindest thing you can say is that they are too rosy on the outlook for their own players, to the point of overconfidence.
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“The Giants organization can't evaluate their own coaches, and their coaches can't evaluate their own players. It's a mess.”
These are easy words to print. Does he give any specific examples. Does he believe Judge is an idiot or Graham. Because that’s what this says. This staff has worked all over the NFL and college. Does that also make all the people who employed them idiots as well. Just asking for a friend.
As far as evaluating their own players, that holds at least a little water when you consider what's been going on at OL. The kindest thing you can say is that they are too rosy on the outlook for their own players, to the point of overconfidence.
The OL actually got pretty good pass protection reviews. PFF gave them good run blocking grades as well (which I don’t believe) but anyway. But even if what you say is true that’s not close to what what Lombardi’s statement says. What Lombardi says I’d borderline absurd.
Not saying this is the case, but its possible Judge fully knows all of this and is trying his damndest.
Not saying this is the case, but its possible Judge fully knows all of this and is trying his damndest.
Seems a more reasonable take. And it’s still a very young team. I don’t know but this is pot stirring from Lombardi who is known to be that guy.
Lombardi is not someone I ever listen to. I didn't and won't listen to this. But what's he's saying is nothing new and I'm glad he's saying it. I wish more people around the league and in the media would.
The problem is John and Chris Mara. Until they turn the on field product over to competent people and get out of the way nothing will ever get better. People my age went through this with their father and this is the exact same thing.
It's been 4 HC's and 2 GM's and a f**king decade of this crap. The fish stinks from the head not the tail.
Yep hes usualy brutally wrong.. Remember what he said about TC Eli Strahan etc.
Maybe, or possibly Garrett was foisted on Judge by ownership. John Mara has had a boner for Garrett forever, it is quite the coinkydink that of all the OC candidates out there, Judge thought Mara's BFF was the best choice.
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for your truths you are crossing into the dark side
I know what you're saying, but setting the source of the statements aside, is any of it unfair, honestly?
I haven't read it and I won't read Lombardi -- as a rule I won't read the analysis of a profession lynch mob instigator -- it's bad juju
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And if he’s the problem then ultimately it’s Judge that is the problem. Blaming Garrett is just scapegoating.
Maybe, or possibly Garrett was foisted on Judge by ownership. John Mara has had a boner for Garrett forever, it is quite the coinkydink that of all the OC candidates out there, Judge thought Mara's BFF was the best choice.
Foisted on him or not Judge us still the boss. He approves what Garrett does. Garrett doesn’t run an offense Judge doesn’t sign off on.
Who’s decision do you think it was? It’s not rocket science here. Judges entire staff is made up mostly of guys he’s had some sort of connection with in the past. Garrett being one of the exceptions. You know who does have a connection with Garrett? John Mara. You can connect the dots or put your head in the sand, that’s your choice.
It's certainly speculation, but not completely unfounded. Mara has been pretty open about how much he likes Garrett, I just find it an odd coincidence that of all the people available, Joe Judge chooses a guy he has no personal experience with, who happens to be close to the owner.
Maybe it's all a coincidence, but I'm dubious.
Foisted on him or not Judge us still the boss. He approves what Garrett does. Garrett doesn’t run an offense Judge doesn’t sign off on.
Sure, but Judge has very little experience on the offensive side, so it is no surprise that he would lean heavily on his veteran OC. There was also zero chance he was going to demote Garrett as a rookie HC. I think he would be more inclined to do so this year, but certainly not after one game.
My guess is the Judge gives Garrett some things he wants to see, run/pass mix, # of downfield shots, etc, but leaves it up to Garrett to decide how to get it done. That could change if the offense continues to struggle.
1. after ryan fumbel recovery, garrett called three BITCH MADE SOFT ASS plays. he was afraid to lose. previously, his excuse was poor OL play and no weapons. now what? The OL isnt good but they had only 2 instances where you were like omg block please. pass pro wasnt bad. and we def have weapons on offense now.
2. his redzone calls late in game when giants had chance to make it a one score game but ended up turning over on downs. there was ZERO creativity. he doesnt scheme ANYBODY open EVER. they were 4 dull ass calls that included to basic out routes, a run play, and curl. HORRIBLE fucking scheme in redzone with zero thought on how to get it done.
garrett officially sucks in my book.
I can add a few more but we agree. There are some Garrett/play calling moments that are impossible to ignore. 2020 was one thing, young team, young rookie OL, but enough already. This is McAdoo redux. I can't fucking believe it's happening again. Fuck this franchise. Again.
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come from? Is there any facts behind this, or is this one of those things are posted on a BB and become generally accepted facts.
It's certainly speculation, but not completely unfounded. Mara has been pretty open about how much he likes Garrett, I just find it an odd coincidence that of all the people available, Joe Judge chooses a guy he has no personal experience with, who happens to be close to the owner.
Maybe it's all a coincidence, but I'm dubious.
It's not a coincidence. They wanted an experienced assistant to help a rookie head coach. As you said, Garrett has a familial relationship with the team.
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In comment 15365654 BleedBlue said:
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yea. i think we have a lot of talent. I think jones could be good. but I really think we are hamstrung by garrett. I never felt this way but two things were last straw for me.
The biggest fallacy by fans of losing teams in any sport is that the players are all good enough and it's the coach that holds them back.
Yep. Especially since Coughlin, McAdoo & Shurmur were removed thinking it was a coaching issue. It’s far deeper.
Friendly reminder that Mara fired Coughlin on the heels of that 2015 offense scoring 427 pts.
427 points!!!! That 2015 team had 2, count them, 2 pro talents. Eli. Beckham. And that's IT. 427 points. Fired.
We haven't come close since.
It's always the coaching.
Coughlin's offense (it wasn't McAdoo)
Shurmur's offense.
Those two guys have well earned reputations of running respectable offenses. That's why they did ok here.
I'm at the point where I really hope Judge relieves Garrett of his OC duties so we can eliminate another excuse.
Let Kitchens and this absurd OL-Coaching-by-Committee take a stab at designing plays for our mediocre franchise QB.
Because many of this board think Kitchens is the answer.
I'm at the point where I really hope Judge relieves Garrett of his OC duties so we can eliminate another excuse.
Let Kitchens and this absurd OL-Coaching-by-Committee take a stab at designing plays for our mediocre franchise QB.
Because many of this board think Kitchens is the answer.
Don't think Kitchens is the answer by any means, but the game he called last year at least involved more shot plays and less sticks - it was an upgrade in terms of route combinations. At this point I'm not looking for salvation, just some relief. Agreed that eliminating any and all excuses that impede the DJones evaluation would be a great thing.
With the Giants, with or w/o Lombardi’s opinion, I believe the Giants have one of the three worst w/l records over the past decade. The question then is not, are the Giants broken, but rather, what’s broken and how to fix it.
Can anyone really argue that he’s wrong? He’s been saying for a while now that Mara needs to clean house. And yet Mara continues change things incrementally and very slowly and only with insular or incestuous appointments. This said isn’t to kill Mara. No doubt that John Mara wants to win and he really is a good guy who appreciates the fans. He loves the Giants! But something isn’t working and the result on the field is pretty much the long and short of it.
The season is still just one game long. So, yeah, we’ll give a bit more time. But, if this is another 6 or 7 win season then I would absolutely clean house. Including Judge and Kevin Abrahams both of who seem like outstanding professionals. It’s a bottom line business. Win or be fired.
Saw this from USA Today/Giants Wire today
"The league is set up for losing teams to get better if they follow the script. By design, losing teams are afforded every advantage to improve and the majority of them do — if they stick to the script.
The Giants have not stuck to the script. They have drafted poorly and overpaid for veterans in free agency. They are not even close to being on the cutting edge. Heck, they’re not even copycatting the successful teams and keeping up with the trends. They’re just spinning their wheels making one dubious move after another. That is why they are on their way to another losing season, which would be their fifth straight. That is unheard of in the modern day NFL."
Stuck in time indeed.
These are easy words to print. Does he give any specific examples.
My guess he's referring to their overall trust in Jones and the fact they believed this strongly in the current OL that they didn't trade, sign or draft anyone for improvements.
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In comment 15365850 Gman11 said:
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In comment 15365654 BleedBlue said:
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yea. i think we have a lot of talent. I think jones could be good. but I really think we are hamstrung by garrett. I never felt this way but two things were last straw for me.
The biggest fallacy by fans of losing teams in any sport is that the players are all good enough and it's the coach that holds them back.
Yep. Especially since Coughlin, McAdoo & Shurmur were removed thinking it was a coaching issue. It’s far deeper.
Friendly reminder that Mara fired Coughlin on the heels of that 2015 offense scoring 427 pts.
427 points!!!! That 2015 team had 2, count them, 2 pro talents. Eli. Beckham. And that's IT. 427 points. Fired.
We haven't come close since.
It's always the coaching.
What that team didn't have was a defense. We spent wild in 2016 and our defense was good while our Offense collapsed. Maybe our offense would have been better in 2016 had we not fired TC.
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these issues many times. And he's spot on every time.
I'm at the point where I really hope Judge relieves Garrett of his OC duties so we can eliminate another excuse.
Let Kitchens and this absurd OL-Coaching-by-Committee take a stab at designing plays for our mediocre franchise QB.
Because many of this board think Kitchens is the answer.
Don't think Kitchens is the answer by any means, but the game he called last year at least involved more shot plays and less sticks - it was an upgrade in terms of route combinations. At this point I'm not looking for salvation, just some relief. Agreed that eliminating any and all excuses that impede the DJones evaluation would be a great thing.
I've said many times that I'm neutral on Garrett. He's had success as a HC and consistently steered offenses to the top of the league in PPG. He's obviously a bright guy and, I assume, he understands how the league's rules dictate offenses. So if his offense isn't working, I place more of that on the players and their failure to execute.
But if shaking things up might jumpstart the offense with a new voice, concepts, etc than let's do it sooner rather than later. Turn it over to Kitchens on Friday - if we lay another egg on Thursday - and eliminate the Garrett target.
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The Giants are stuck in time. Their big decisions are informed by looking backwards in their own history rather than looking out at the league to determine current best practices.
Saw this from USA Today/Giants Wire today
"The league is set up for losing teams to get better if they follow the script. By design, losing teams are afforded every advantage to improve and the majority of them do — if they stick to the script.
The Giants have not stuck to the script. They have drafted poorly and overpaid for veterans in free agency. They are not even close to being on the cutting edge. Heck, they’re not even copycatting the successful teams and keeping up with the trends. They’re just spinning their wheels making one dubious move after another. That is why they are on their way to another losing season, which would be their fifth straight. That is unheard of in the modern day NFL."
Stuck in time indeed.
Oof!!