is ownership.
Somebody talk me off the ledge here, but I honestly don't know what else to think.
Since the Giants last winning season in 2011 Giants have had -
- New coaching staff, 3 times over,
- New GM,
- New players....
- New scouts.
Am I missing anything?
What is the 1 constant that hasn't changed since that time?
And please don't tell me, it's only game 1. We all know where this is headed. This Washington game could be a blip on the radar, but whether the Giants win or lose this game, nothing in my opinion has changed.
Point is, yes there are problems. But it is not an all hope is lost situation with him. You can win with Mara. At this point, we just need a better GM.
And use the proceeds to purchase the NY Giants from those wretched Maras.
Fire Gettlemen.
Fire Garrett.
Move to a zone read offense.
Trade DJ for peanuts and a milkshake (although hold the peanuts because why wife is allergic)
Trade Saquon to Baltimore for two first rounders.
Cluster draft OL and LBs.
If you have any other requests for future upper management, leave a line here.
Yes there are. Still, it's cold comfort. The team I root for has poor ownership.
Its the football part of their business they don't understand, it seems. I have no idea about Chris Mara or any other family connections to football personnel, but I KNOW John Mara hired Gettleman, kept Reese on and fired TC and I'm sure he had input if not solely his call on Shurmur. But it also goes to the scouting, both college and pro, player development and on a bit of an aside, the fan experience. My father had season tickets since the '60's. He gave them up when they asked for PSLs. Even before then he said the Mara's were cheap and Wellington was a horrible football 'person'. They seem to put the league first, their pockets second and fans last. Even the current stadium is ridiculous. they have that blue 'bunting' (not sure what else to call it) that covers the stadium when the giants play. For an original NFL team in the biggest city in the country to have to have a stadium 'out of state' and have to share it wiht another teams is laughable.
So, although i respect John Mara for his professional 'decorum', I am angered by his lack of football acumen, success and disregard for the fans.
"The arrogance of inherited, unearned wealth..."
That was Jerrell Jernigan.
Yes and how about his wondering about Jerel Jernigan and implicitly blaming Kevin Gilbride for holding Jernigan back?
That episode with Jernigan was an immense warning sign.
Mara could acknowledge that he isn't a football expert and simply write the checks. That ownership role is fine. A fool who knows their limitations isn't a risk; a fool who doesn't is an immense risk.
Jernigan well aware - ( New Window )
I might prefer Jones. Call me crazy.
In the past couple years we've heard rumblings here and there that they change some area scouts around and restructured their personnel departments, unfortunately I can't tell you whether or not these were the right changes because they're things that take years to show benefits.
Either way, if we want to win consistently again changes need to be made to the organization as a whole. This has to be supported and lead by ownership.
I know we had a bit of turnover in the scouting department, however it's not enough. It needs to be totally gutted. Furthermore Chris Mara needs to be removed from making any pro personnel decisions.
But they keep hiring the same people. Anyone who says "we're going to be tough in the trenches" or "we're going to be fundamentally sound" gets an interview. The game has passed them by.
We need better talent evaluation, better management of resources (like draft picks) and coaching that brings new ideas for the offense (or defense, but this is an offense league now).
It is Mara's fault that we have our current GM. The organization is arrogant. The think there is some 'Giant's Way' and that they know better. That is how you end up with former Giant Accorsi as a consultant to pick the next GM. That is how the consultant picks another former Giant as GM. One of the requirements for the job was that the new hire agree to continue with the all time 'Giant' Eli Manning. That is how we have an OC who runs an outdated offense, but who loves the organization and is a former 'Giant.' And yes, the Judge hire was out of the box and we were all optimistic about it. But the jury is out.
In the NFL, teams perhaps move too quickly and those that are patient, in some cases (like Pitt) can be rewarded. But the NFL moves faster now. There is no external critic in the building. In watching this team/organization for the past few years.....it seems like no aspects of the team, from the field and scheme, to the way they play, to the front office are modern.
Owners shouldn't be involved in these decisions - especially one that buys into the mythology of a franchise that has had some incredible history....but also some epic stretches of embarrassment.
Where are you going with this...you want to interview new Owners this next offseason?
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Point is, yes there are problems. But it is not an all hope is lost situation with him. You can win with Mara. At this point, we just need a better GM.
It is Mara's fault that we have our current GM. The organization is arrogant. The think there is some 'Giant's Way' and that they know better. That is how you end up with former Giant Accorsi as a consultant to pick the next GM. That is how the consultant picks another former Giant as GM. One of the requirements for the job was that the new hire agree to continue with the all time 'Giant' Eli Manning. That is how we have an OC who runs an outdated offense, but who loves the organization and is a former 'Giant.' And yes, the Judge hire was out of the box and we were all optimistic about it. But the jury is out.
In the NFL, teams perhaps move too quickly and those that are patient, in some cases (like Pitt) can be rewarded. But the NFL moves faster now. There is no external critic in the building. In watching this team/organization for the past few years.....it seems like no aspects of the team, from the field and scheme, to the way they play, to the front office are modern.
Owners shouldn't be involved in these decisions - especially one that buys into the mythology of a franchise that has had some incredible history....but also some epic stretches of embarrassment.
The next few weeks will be really telling. I realize the defense played poorly the other day, but Garrett is the real problem in my opinion. He’s just not very creative. You can’t use the lack of weapons excuse when you have Golladay, Barkley, Rudolph, Shepard, Slayton, and Toney running around. A poster summed it up perfectly the other day when he said Mara likely pushed for the Garrett hire as training wheels for Judge being a new HC. What I found interesting last year is that Judge tagged Graham with the assistant HC title. You would have thought that would have went to Garrett with his experience as a HC. Probably because Judge didn’t want him as his OC to begin with.
at least the higher picks.
think about it this way, if we wanted to give eli a proper send off why wouldn't we go heavy on Oline in 2018 and 19?
the Mara's cracked over the backlash of not getting a QB successor in 2018 and reached in 2019.
even taking a wr in 2021 made no sense. they wanted a shiny new toy even after getting golladay. does it make sense that we as an org have been taking these small receivers early since sinorice moss? lol
Where are you going with this...you want to interview new Owners this next offseason?
No, but can a fan base get so angry with ownership, that they finally realize that they themselves are the sole reason for the systemic issues that plague the team?
Should we as fans, knowing that ownership is the problem, just sit silent because "there is nothing that can be done?"
I want to see the first four games this year before I freak out.
They were probably saying the same thing early 70s. "Those four NFL titles."
It's getting old.
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owns the checkbook.
Where are you going with this...you want to interview new Owners this next offseason?
No, but can a fan base get so angry with ownership, that they finally realize that they themselves are the sole reason for the systemic issues that plague the team?
Should we as fans, knowing that ownership is the problem, just sit silent because "there is nothing that can be done?"
Clams, I am all-in. What do you suggest we do?
Even if the Mara's agreed to hire someone like that, my concern would be that they'd hire someone with longstanding ties to the franchise.
at least the higher picks.
think about it this way, if we wanted to give eli a proper send off why wouldn't we go heavy on Oline in 2018 and 19?
the Mara's cracked over the backlash of not getting a QB successor in 2018 and reached in 2019.
even taking a wr in 2021 made no sense. they wanted a shiny new toy even after getting golladay. does it make sense that we as an org have been taking these small receivers early since sinorice moss? lol
Maybe on all of these.
And DG has been and is still a problem, particularly if he now isn't part of a solution...
Ok. Bad ownership. Then what? It didn't do the Knicks or Mets any favors to keep hammering the point. No amount of fan anger is going to change ownership.
Right in NY!
The Redskins are worth $4Bn. We know their owner sucks.
Point being franchise value is not a measure of acumen of the people running it.
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In comment 15366108 Jimmy Googs said:
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owns the checkbook.
Where are you going with this...you want to interview new Owners this next offseason?
No, but can a fan base get so angry with ownership, that they finally realize that they themselves are the sole reason for the systemic issues that plague the team?
Should we as fans, knowing that ownership is the problem, just sit silent because "there is nothing that can be done?"
Clams, I am all-in. What do you suggest we do?
Start a thread on BBI? Get people thinking about it? Tweet it out? Facebook it? Talk about it with other Giant fans?
Perhaps we will have some miniscule effect? Maybe people connected to the team read BBI? I dunno man...I jut don't know.
The Giants do not have bad ownership. In fact, even the worst ownership - e.g. Daniel Snyder - can improve their place on the team by stepping back.
It drives me crazy to hear John Mara playing to fans in his press conferences or otherwise undermining management or coaching. It would be hard to believe it is on purpose, but it is almost unavoidable when owners engage in press conferences. He and Bob Tisch should make it a policy to NOT do press and to limit his bottom line involvement to hiring and firing of General Managers. They should also be kept informed through routine, periodic updates.
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Bad ownership? Nope.
The Redskins are worth $4Bn. We know their owner sucks.
Point being franchise value is not a measure of acumen of the people running it.
Point being is that owners care about franchise value.
some of these takes are just comical. Do people really believe this crap?
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In comment 15366155 Bob in VA said:
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Bad ownership? Nope.
The Redskins are worth $4Bn. We know their owner sucks.
Point being franchise value is not a measure of acumen of the people running it.
Point being is that owners care about franchise value.
it's a legal monopoly. In the modern NFL, it's basically impossible to not turn a substantial profit.
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In comment 15366155 Bob in VA said:
Quote:
Bad ownership? Nope.
The Redskins are worth $4Bn. We know their owner sucks.
Point being franchise value is not a measure of acumen of the people running it.
Point being is that owners care about franchise value.
Sure. That's hardly the sole bar to clear for being a good owner. The Giants would very likely still be worth 4bn if you replace John Mara with a different millionaire just like any other team. The valuation of sports franchises almost never declines. I can't even think of an example of it.
Lay off the sauce clams, you're hallucinating.
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In comment 15366122 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
In comment 15366108 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
owns the checkbook.
Where are you going with this...you want to interview new Owners this next offseason?
No, but can a fan base get so angry with ownership, that they finally realize that they themselves are the sole reason for the systemic issues that plague the team?
Should we as fans, knowing that ownership is the problem, just sit silent because "there is nothing that can be done?"
Clams, I am all-in. What do you suggest we do?
Start a thread on BBI? Get people thinking about it? Tweet it out? Facebook it? Talk about it with other Giant fans?
Perhaps we will have some miniscule effect? Maybe people connected to the team read BBI? I dunno man...I jut don't know.
I don't tweet. But I will definitely try and be more pessimistic in my posts against Mngt/FO than I have been in the past.
:-)
Lay off the sauce clams, you're hallucinating.
Dude - It's right here! LOOK!
Lay off the sauce clams, you're hallucinating.
I want some of what Clams is drinking!