The Pink Elephant in the room -

In comment 15366080 McNally's_Nuts said:

Quote:

In comment 15366066 Racer said: Quote: ...who claimed in front of a microphone he didn't understand why it took so long to figure out that Sinorice Moss "could play" after the guy's one and only productive game? That was Jerrell Jernigan.

Finally somebody responds to one of my posts and I fail on the player ID.........

In comment 15366098 Kanavis said:

Quote:

In comment 15366048 UberAlias said: Quote: Point is, yes there are problems. But it is not an all hope is lost situation with him. You can win with Mara. At this point, we just need a better GM. It is Mara's fault that we have our current GM. The organization is arrogant. The think there is some 'Giant's Way' and that they know better. That is how you end up with former Giant Accorsi as a consultant to pick the next GM. That is how the consultant picks another former Giant as GM. One of the requirements for the job was that the new hire agree to continue with the all time 'Giant' Eli Manning. That is how we have an OC who runs an outdated offense, but who loves the organization and is a former 'Giant.' And yes, the Judge hire was out of the box and we were all optimistic about it. But the jury is out. In the NFL, teams perhaps move too quickly and those that are patient, in some cases (like Pitt) can be rewarded. But the NFL moves faster now. There is no external critic in the building. In watching this team/organization for the past few years.....it seems like no aspects of the team, from the field and scheme, to the way they play, to the front office are modern. Owners shouldn't be involved in these decisions - especially one that buys into the mythology of a franchise that has had some incredible history....but also some epic stretches of embarrassment.

Great post here. The Giants are like the Michigan Wolverines of the NFL. Stuck with wanting 'their guys' doing things 'their way' when the game has passed them by.

In comment 15366116 eric2425ny said:

Quote:

I think we are paying back the football gods for those two awesome runs that each concluded with us beating the greatest QB of all time.

I was going to post something about not having sustained success for over 3 decades but then i looked back on the Coughlin era and form '05 to '12 we had winning records with 2 8-8 seasons mixed in. My general recollection during that period was we were never a DOMINANT team. We were always in a game as long as Eli wasn't having a bad day. We had TC as head coach, a couple of different DC two different GMs but we found players and found ways to win. Funny what 9 years of bad football will do to a memory.

You need the right mentality from ownership, but then also fortunate timing for availability of HCs and GMs.

Then the QB situation has to work out. But this part is more critical for championship winning than just regular winning.

In comment 15366182 Enzo said:

Quote:

John Mara has flat out botched in a relatively short period of time is staggering. He simply cannot get out of his own way. Where are the Tisch brothers in all this?

The Tisch brothers are busy checking the P/L statements

that Chris Mara, VP of player personell IS and OWNER, Tim MacDonald, ASSt and future CEO, IS and OWNER. Situation ain't getting any better in my lifetime. These guys have been running the personell dept since 2011. Notice anything about the date? We've sucked donkey balls since then.

In comment 15366245 NINEster said:

Quote:

You need the right mentality from ownership, but then also fortunate timing for availability of HCs and GMs. Then the QB situation has to work out. But this part is more critical for championship winning than just regular winning.

This is 100% correct. It all has to come together. That’s why some of the best QB’s in league history enjoyed great success but never won a SB. Dan Marino and Jim Kelly are the first two that come to mind. Then you look at the guys who won once like Brees and Rodgers that could have won several with the right coach/GM.

In comment 15366099 BillT said:

Quote:

I’d give them back to get new ownership.

The Giants have great success. And no one is overlooking suoerbowls. But remember what led to the first 2. The league had to step in and force George Young on then. Mara took his position in 2011. And he has acted as those 4 Lombardis are validation. But the team has been terrible since then. And he is involved and responsible. No one is asking for perfect owners. Just those that stay out of football decisions.

He is often pointed out as a bogeyman feeding our poor GMs and coaches bad information, but in reality I think it's just the Maras picking and sticking with bad personnel people (GMs on down) because they want to avoid the awkwardness of working with people they don't already know.

before falling off the map in 2017. There's a lot of factors to consider, but if we're distilling it down to one simple thing it's likely that the team just hasn't had the right QB since 2017.

It's only (essentially) been two QBs starting for this team since 2004 ‐ so the continuity there is about the same as it is with the team's ownership. And really we're talking about just the offense, as the Giants defense has had spurts of success throughout that time. More specifically, over the last 5 years an aging Eli Manning and a young Daniel Jones may not have been right catalyst for success.

That being said, you can draw a direct line from the quarterbacks' failure to excel, to the GM who acquired/retained them, and up to the owner who hired the GM. But the owner isn't going to get "fired". So the hope is that we see a new GM sooner rather than later, who has a good eye for QB talent.

Needs an outsider to come in and make football decisions. No more "Giants Way" country club connections.

It’s only game 1

In comment 15366345 widmerseyebrow said:

Quote:

He is often pointed out as a bogeyman feeding our poor GMs and coaches bad information, but in reality I think it's just the Maras picking and sticking with bad personnel people (GMs on down) because they want to avoid the awkwardness of working with people they don't already know.

It's hard to know, but reportedly he puts together a shadow draft board and then the team drafts by "consensus". But good luck winning an argument with the owner.

Allegedly this is how we ended up with Davis Webb. Also, remember when Flowers was drafted and Reese's hot take was "I think he'll make a good guard" before praising him afterward.

On the flip side, the Maras apparently convinced Coughlin not to cut Victor Cruz.

It seems arbitrary. The randomness has me concerned. Could you elaborate on your choice of adjective, it would help me formulate a proper response. Pink isn't even a primary color.

sheesh.

He was loyal to a fault with Coughlin, Reese - and then for whatever reason refused to have a real GM search conducted, instead deciding to stick with comfort and hire Gettleman after a bogus search. The scouting department remained intact, along with his brother and nephew retaining senior titles. And the results have only gotten worse.

I feel like part of the reason he had a bogus GM search conducted that would definitely hire Gettleman was because I don't think he wanted to fire Reese. McAdoo absolutely had to go after his debacle handling the clubhouse, but firing Reese was the "placate the fans" move. If he actually thought the front office was a problem, he wouldn't have had tunnel vision on Gettleman and Kevin Abrams like he did. Like someone else said, he loves the team, there are far worse owners but he has a sense of stability and comfort and that is wrong

considering the only reason Cruz ever got a chance from Coughlin was because he was the last healthy guy left in 2011 maybe that's true.

Chris Mara's background bio talks about him being a Giants scout from 1979, the year the graduated college, until 1993.

I was lucky enough to be around the Giants on road game days quite a bit in the Parcells years. Chris Mara was as much of a scout as I was in those days. His real title was son of owner. The Tisch family bought 50% in 1991. Chris Mara was done being a "scout" two years later.

Quote:

Following his first stint with the Giants, Mara spent eight years (1994-2001) operating ProRate, Inc., an independent football scouting service contracted by as many as 15 NFL franchises. The service provided an evaluation of the free agent market in the NFL. Mara spent 2001-02 as the President/General Manager of the New Jersey Gladiators of the Arena Football League. He oversaw a myriad of responsibilities including ticket sales, operations, and the arena lease. Mara's primary focus was on player personnel and player contracts. He brought his extensive knowledge of professional football to the team and revived the struggling franchise in just one season. After a difficult first season, the Gladiators posted a 9-5 record in 2002 and a first-place finish in the Eastern Division of the National Conference. Posting the biggest turnaround in AFL history, the Gladiators finished the 2002 regular season with seven more victories than the previous year and qualified for the playoffs for the first time in franchise history.

That's from his official Giants bio. He wrote a pre internet NFL FA newsletter that some teams bought as a favor to his father and spent two years running a team in the indoor league. Explain to me how that qualifies someone to run an NFL personal department?

I agree that Mara and Tisch are a big part of the problem. Agree that DG was a "safe" and bad hire for the organization and that the coaching turnover has been evidence of some bad organizational moves. Drafts have been more miss than hit since DG came in and the gambles on Daniel Jones, Barkley, and the OL failures are proof of some very bad decisions on how to rebuild. But despite what all this means the Giants' last winning season was in 2016, not 2011.

In comment 15366099 BillT said:

Quote:

I’d give them back to get new ownership.

Stop being a shill and living in the past.

The Giants Way is about how they treat players and the community, but not how they approach the game.

This is ironic considering they are inter-married with the Steelers, who are the model of consistency. The Steelers will play a 3-4, run the football, value certain positions and draft to those strengths.

On the other hand, the Giants are all over the place. Their success was with Parcells and TC and tough physical running games and defense based on pass rush. Yet, since TC left they haven't draft a top pass rusher or been able to bring along a decent offensive lineman. They went from WCO to RPO with Shurmur now to whatever Garrett is running.

There's a lot to unpack since 2012 (including the stadium gutting the fan base), but you can boil it down to there simply isn't an organizational philosophy.