I think the Giants biggest downfall on Sunday, not being able to get off the field on 3rd down, was a direct result of their lack of pass rush.
Carter to me just doesn't have it as an EDGE rusher. He's too leggy in his stride to bend the EDGE and not strong enough to win with a bull rush. That gives him little in his repertoire to actually win 1v1 vs an NFL OT. Most of his sacks are plays where he is unblocked or chase downs/coverage sacks.
I wasn't impressed with Azeez either. His lone sack was a coverage sack. He is going to need to learn how to win with other counter moves as his cross-chop move by itself is not enough to beat NFL OT's consistently.
Ximines was a ghost. I still think he is this teams best pure pass rusher. But he seems to disappear when the games count.
Would love to see Roche incorporated more if these other 3 can't get it going. Same with Elerson Smith once he returns from IR.
Does anybody have any words of optimism for me? I am not feeling great about the OLB unit.
2 more: Dexter Lawrence
And getting held several times with no call in the process.
Agreed. very soft pass defense
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Was consistently overpowering his man
And getting held several times with no call in the process.
Yeah, I remember one that helped convert a third down or fourth down.
Yup. It's especially frustrating to see Holmes and Love out there and not Peppers
What is most annoying is the continued pattern of the giant defense in 3rd and long to have a receiver get wide open in the middle of the field and the opponent converts for a first down. I don’t know what’s the problem is but that disaster has been going on continuously for 5 years or more.
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Was consistently overpowering his man
And getting held several times with no call in the process.
From what I saw in the preseason and now in the first week I think the refs aren't going to call holding as much. I guess they'll just pick and choose which ones to call.
Agreed, it feels like Pep is getting phased out of the defense. Preparing for him to walk this offseason.
To me, Peppers is one of the 5 or 6 best players on this defense and should be on the field. Unfortunately, on running downs, it does not make sense to have a 3rd safety on the field. Peppers is essentially a money backer but he is not as stout against the run as someone like Ragland is.
What is most annoying is the continued pattern of the giant defense in 3rd and long to have a receiver get wide open in the middle of the field and the opponent converts for a first down. I don’t know what’s the problem is but that disaster has been going on continuously for 5 years or more.
Not being able to cover the middle of the field is a weakness for 90% of teams. It can also be offset with a strong pass rush and pocket push.
I don't think Peppers adds much beyond in the box run support and would prefer the Giants start McKinney and Ryan as 2 high safeties b/c they have more ball hawking skills.
1) Ojulari: Although he was active, I was concerned because he didn't "flash" to me. I didn't see the outstanding quickness and ability to disrupt plays you get from high echelon pass rushers. I'm not saying he sucks at all, but he didn't wow me. That has me concerned.
(I tend to think high level pass rushers "show" right away but maybe that is naive. I still remember Justin Tuck's performance during a preseason game vs the Jets. Believe he had barely practiced, and he literally almost took over the game.)
2) Carter: I think he is quite a decent football player but have really been wondering whether he isn't actually an MLB. He has the size and very good athletic traits and is not a bad football player. Wonder if he would be an asset there?
I'm still bullish on the personnel Graham has at his disposal and he'll dial up pressure more consistently as the season moves forward.
It may start Thursday against Heinicke...
Peppers should probably go the Mark Barron route.
Also, believe it or not we were on top for registered "pressures" in week 1. Our issue was we didn't close on a lot of sacks we should have had, but we got there.
The other problem is tackling. I've read a number of articles and a lot of them point to the fact that nobody likes to teach tackling; everyone wants to go for the big hit on the field or not wanting to hurt players off it.
Also, I was hoping that Carter Coughlin could step up as a Karl Mecklenburg-type who could play inside and outside, but I didn't see him much this game. It'll be an interesting rotation with the MLB spot opposite Martinez this year.
What is most annoying is the continued pattern of the giant defense in 3rd and long to have a receiver get wide open in the middle of the field and the opponent converts for a first down. I don’t know what’s the problem is but that disaster has been going on continuously for 5 years or more.
This is true. Sometimes the right piece just "fits" and makes the overall structure stronger. Tomlinson was never all world, but he was dependable and exactly the right "fit" with Lawrence and Williams in that scheme. He and Lawrence were guaranteed to collapse the middle and stop any runs coming there. They both said they knew each other's tendencies and would play off each other. Williams knew he could attack the edge viciously.
The Giants aren't collapsing the pocket right now. Right now Shelton and Johnson, injuries notwithstanding, aren't getting it done. That chemistry with Lawrence and Williams isn't there. Maybe coaching can improve that over time but to deny the groupthink when Tomlinson was here is to ignore the obvious.
BTW, I'm not saying the cost to keep Tomlinson was not an issue. The point is that it's not always "plug and play"... when you make a change like that you should consider how the change is going to fit so that nothing other than the individual skillsets are lost in transition. That did not happen here.
Whether you agree or not the Giants pass rush principles are about inside pressure.
The Giants blitzed their inside linebacker and safeties 19 of 66 snaps.
Shurmur threw into that knowing the middle of the field was vacated.
Peppers was terrible in coverage — he gave up 5 receptions on 5 targets.
You might be tired of hearing it, but if you watch him in the game, you will see he does his job and fills his gaps and creates pressure. Unfortunately on Sunday it didn't show up on the stat sheet.
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stoppng the run and it makes play action work much better. Would have been nice to have worked out a way to pay him and kept him as a dominating lineman. Shelton is not a worthy replacement nor is Johnson .
What is most annoying is the continued pattern of the giant defense in 3rd and long to have a receiver get wide open in the middle of the field and the opponent converts for a first down. I don’t know what’s the problem is but that disaster has been going on continuously for 5 years or more.
This is true. Sometimes the right piece just "fits" and makes the overall structure stronger. Tomlinson was never all world, but he was dependable and exactly the right "fit" with Lawrence and Williams in that scheme. He and Lawrence were guaranteed to collapse the middle and stop any runs coming there. They both said they knew each other's tendencies and would play off each other. Williams knew he could attack the edge viciously.
The Giants aren't collapsing the pocket right now. Right now Shelton and Johnson, injuries notwithstanding, aren't getting it done. That chemistry with Lawrence and Williams isn't there. Maybe coaching can improve that over time but to deny the groupthink when Tomlinson was here is to ignore the obvious.
BTW, I'm not saying the cost to keep Tomlinson was not an issue. The point is that it's not always "plug and play"... when you make a change like that you should consider how the change is going to fit so that nothing other than the individual skillsets are lost in transition. That did not happen here.
I've wondered why the Giants like Dexter at the 5T/DE spot more than they do as a NT. I originally thought the only reason for him not playing the nose was because Tomlinson was here.
Based on his body type and skillset, I'd think he'd be a better fit lined up as the 0.
Shelton and Johnson are older journeymen. I think there is a big drop in talent.
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In comment 15366577 plato said:
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stoppng the run and it makes play action work much better. Would have been nice to have worked out a way to pay him and kept him as a dominating lineman. Shelton is not a worthy replacement nor is Johnson .
What is most annoying is the continued pattern of the giant defense in 3rd and long to have a receiver get wide open in the middle of the field and the opponent converts for a first down. I don’t know what’s the problem is but that disaster has been going on continuously for 5 years or more.
This is true. Sometimes the right piece just "fits" and makes the overall structure stronger. Tomlinson was never all world, but he was dependable and exactly the right "fit" with Lawrence and Williams in that scheme. He and Lawrence were guaranteed to collapse the middle and stop any runs coming there. They both said they knew each other's tendencies and would play off each other. Williams knew he could attack the edge viciously.
The Giants aren't collapsing the pocket right now. Right now Shelton and Johnson, injuries notwithstanding, aren't getting it done. That chemistry with Lawrence and Williams isn't there. Maybe coaching can improve that over time but to deny the groupthink when Tomlinson was here is to ignore the obvious.
BTW, I'm not saying the cost to keep Tomlinson was not an issue. The point is that it's not always "plug and play"... when you make a change like that you should consider how the change is going to fit so that nothing other than the individual skillsets are lost in transition. That did not happen here.
I've wondered why the Giants like Dexter at the 5T/DE spot more than they do as a NT. I originally thought the only reason for him not playing the nose was because Tomlinson was here.
Based on his body type and skillset, I'd think he'd be a better fit lined up as the 0.
Probably something about quickness or something like that and think he'd be wasted as the nose.