Critical 3rd down after getting ball after turnover by Logan.
Jones stares down Rudolph from snap of ball. Pocket intact.
Notice 19 (our very expensive new #1 receiver) at the bottom cutting across the middle with cornerback 8 yards off. Hit him in stride across the middle and his momentum carries him to sure first down. If he beats the corner, possible huge gain. Instead Jones never comes off Rudolph and delivers ball to a receiver running towards sideline with 2 defenders nearby with zero chance of making the first down.
Missed critical opportunity - (
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I see four Giants receivers running routes that stop or cut all at about 4 yards from the LOS. Who the fuck draws that up?
That is a staple of Garrett's offense, too many players running about the same distance from the LOS and roughly all horizontally in line with each other. It is without a doubt one of the biggest flaws we have and makes for turnover central.
Jones does his best work with receivers moving away from him, not stopping and coming back to him or just sitting down.. Garrett's scheme is flawed and works against the talent we have brought on board.
Dozens of people have criticized Garrett for the play call and still trying to do so, even though the first down play was there to be made.
Jones is the most important player on the team and his lack of feel at critical moments is his biggest problem, more so than holding on to the ball.
Great post.
I see four Giants receivers running routes that stop or cut all at about 4 yards from the LOS. Who the fuck draws that up?
That is a staple of Garrett's offense, too many players running about the same distance from the LOS and roughly all horizontally in line with each other. It is without a doubt one of the biggest flaws we have and makes for turnover central.
Jones does his best work with receivers moving away from him, not stopping and coming back to him or just sitting down.. Garrett's scheme is flawed and works against the talent we have brought on board.
I'm not a expert by any means, but I see a play designed to clear the right middle of the field to get Golladay the ball in space with momentum carrying him to first down.
Where is the imagination??
I see four Giants receivers running routes that stop or cut all at about 4 yards from the LOS. Who the fuck draws that up?
That is a staple of Garrett's offense, too many players running about the same distance from the LOS and roughly all horizontally in line with each other. It is without a doubt one of the biggest flaws we have and makes for turnover central.
Jones does his best work with receivers moving away from him, not stopping and coming back to him or just sitting down.. Garrett's scheme is flawed and works against the talent we have brought on board.
I don't disagree with your points about Garrett, but Garrett can design a bad play, and Jones can still execute it poorly. In this case, it at least appears that the patterns have cleared the middle of the field, where Golladay can get open. I have to think KG is the primary option, given how the play is designed. If he gets the ball, he has a first down.
Dozens of people have criticized Garrett for the play call and still trying to do so, even though the first down play was there to be made.
Jones is the most important player on the team and his lack of feel at critical moments is his biggest problem, more so than holding on to the ball.
Great post.
In fairness, there's a safety sitting over the top on Golladay, and since the slot on that side of the formation isn't doing anything up the field, so it's not going to be an easy throw, although if it's on time there's at least a chance to get a first down there. Jones never even looked at him.
Bigger question, what is Slayton doing, and what SHOULD he have been doing? If his route called for him to run 3 steps and stop without influencing any of the DBs over there, Jason Garrett shouldn't be coaching high school football.
Link - ( New Window )
Maybe Garrett was imagining the Offensive Line could reasonably run block once or twice, and help get the team deep out of its own end zone without a killer turnover.
In fairness, there's a safety sitting over the top on Golladay, and since the slot on that side of the formation isn't doing anything up the field, so it's not going to be an easy throw, although if it's on time there's at least a chance to get a first down there. Jones never even looked at him.
Bigger question, what is Slayton doing, and what SHOULD he have been doing? If his route called for him to run 3 steps and stop without influencing any of the DBs over there, Jason Garrett shouldn't be coaching high school football. Link - ( New Window )
Good points.
I think Slayton was trying to execute a rub/pick for Rudolph's benefit but the DBs didn't fall for it.
As you say, Jones never looked anywhere else, never looked to see if the rub was working as designed.
That's what struck me watching it live.
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and provide proof of point. Ok, let's look deeper at the problem:
I see four Giants receivers running routes that stop or cut all at about 4 yards from the LOS. Who the fuck draws that up?
That is a staple of Garrett's offense, too many players running about the same distance from the LOS and roughly all horizontally in line with each other. It is without a doubt one of the biggest flaws we have and makes for turnover central.
Jones does his best work with receivers moving away from him, not stopping and coming back to him or just sitting down.. Garrett's scheme is flawed and works against the talent we have brought on board.
I'm not a expert by any means, but I see a play designed to clear the right middle of the field to get Golladay the ball in space with momentum carrying him to first down.
That said, it does look like Golladay would come open, but he is also just coming out of his break in that still.The S looks poised to converge.
Denver's played it well and it was a poor call with the depth of Rudolph's route and the personnel running those routes. To me, if Rudolph is a few yards deeper and Golladay is the WR to that side drawing the CB and S, it might work.
I don't really think success from the 2021 season is going to come from our coaches really outsmarting the other coaches. It's going to come from the NY Giant players playing better football.
If the primary option was Golladay and Jones never looks at him, then bad on Jones.
If Rudolph is the primary option and Jones hits him, then Jones did what he should have.
In fairness, there's a safety sitting over the top on Golladay, and since the slot on that side of the formation isn't doing anything up the field, so it's not going to be an easy throw, although if it's on time there's at least a chance to get a first down there. Jones never even looked at him.
Bigger question, what is Slayton doing, and what SHOULD he have been doing? If his route called for him to run 3 steps and stop without influencing any of the DBs over there, Jason Garrett shouldn't be coaching high school football. Link - ( New Window )
Thanks for posting that. Couldn't see the safety in the still photo, and you're right, he could have made that play. So the play could have been intended for Rudolph, but Slayton screwed up the spacing. Still, Jones birddogged Rudolph the whole way. That's a really bad habit he has to be broken of.
I mean Golladay is your number 1, and is wide open. If he fails to get to the sticks - that’s in design but we have our best WR whose wide open.
Instead he’s focusing on a slow TE running a one yard pattern.
Jones brain was suppose to be his strength but with each game he misses wide open WRs and fixates on guys who are covered.
If the primary option was Golladay and Jones never looks at him, then bad on Jones.
If Rudolph is the primary option and Jones hits him, then Jones did what he should have.
If Rudolph is the primary, it is a bad indictment of Garrett's playcalling that he opts for a 4 yard route on 3rd and 8. He did the same thing on a 3rd down during the Giants 1st TD drive, calling a 5 yd slant on 3rd and 8, but he got bailed out by a Broncos PI.
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Only the Giants know.
If the primary option was Golladay and Jones never looks at him, then bad on Jones.
If Rudolph is the primary option and Jones hits him, then Jones did what he should have.
If Rudolph is the primary, it is a bad indictment of Garrett's playcalling that he opts for a 4 yard route on 3rd and 8. He did the same thing on a 3rd down during the Giants 1st TD drive, calling a 5 yd slant on 3rd and 8, but he got bailed out by a Broncos PI.
100% agree. Someone screwed the pooch here and hopefully it gets corrected.
Thanks for posting that. Couldn't see the safety in the still photo, and you're right, he could have made that play. So the play could have been intended for Rudolph, but Slayton screwed up the spacing. Still, Jones birddogged Rudolph the whole way. That's a really bad habit he has to be broken of.
I wouldn't put it on Slayton because sometimes the DBs are prepared for the pick play and there's nothing he can do to make it work.
Things are happening fast but it's on the QB to see that. Play had no chance when he let the ball go.
If the primary option was Golladay and Jones never looks at him, then bad on Jones.
If Rudolph is the primary option and Jones hits him, then Jones did what he should have.
That's not entirely true. The QB needs to see the coverage and decide which receiver is going to be the best option. Maybe that's the read Jones made at the line, but coming out the huddle he's shouldn't be thinking "okay when the ball is snapped I have to look at Rudolph first".
The idea is to have a successful play, simply completing the pass to the "primary option" doesn't make the play a success.
I see four Giants receivers running routes that stop or cut all at about 4 yards from the LOS. Who the fuck draws that up?
That is a staple of Garrett's offense, too many players running about the same distance from the LOS and roughly all horizontally in line with each other. It is without a doubt one of the biggest flaws we have and makes for turnover central.
Jones does his best work with receivers moving away from him, not stopping and coming back to him or just sitting down.. Garrett's scheme is flawed and works against the talent we have brought on board.
I don't disagree with you. Personally not a fan of JG. In a similar situation, I see a lot of other teams quickly target the tight end running up the seam shielding the defender from the ball and let his momentum and power carry him to the first down. Instead we send two receivers laterally and one runs 3 yards and stops. In these kind of situations, even short passes are reasonable if the player's momentum at the time of the catch is headed in the right direction. Making him change directions after catching the ball gives the defenders more time to close space.
Nevertheless, what strikes me is that DJ must realize that Rudolph has no chance to make first down but stays with him anyway. That is not going to cut it for a 3rd year QB in today's offense happy NFL. I done with DJ. Too many flaws that he can't seem to correct.
To me, this is the problem. Rudolph is an easy completion there, but that play has no chance of getting a first down and Jones never looked anywhere else.
And if Jones either doesn't trust himself or can't be trusted to throw the ball to the sticks in that part of the field, what are we even doing here?
and you mean his "football smarts" had him lock in pre-snap on a guy running a 3 yard pattern on 3rd and 9?
that can't be true. this is daniel jones we're talking about!
BUT Golladay still had a better chance to make the first down than Rudolph.
I actually don't like the play design at all. Slayton is basically wasted on the play. His presence achieves nothing.
BUT Golladay still had a better chance to make the first down than Rudolph.
I actually don't like the play design at all. Slayton is basically wasted on the play. His presence achieves nothing.
yea awful play design. not a shock at all. garrett sucks.
I actually don't like the play design at all. Slayton is basically wasted on the play. His presence achieves nothing.
It's supposed to be rub play. But the DBs defeat it by switching instead of chasing.
The inside guy takes Slayton as he cuts in, instead of chasing Rudolph as he swings out, and the outside DB just waits for Rudolph to come to him.
It's on Jones to see that rather than mechanically throw the ball as if the design had worked as intended.
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I actually don't like the play design at all. Slayton is basically wasted on the play. His presence achieves nothing.
It's supposed to be rub play. But the DBs defeat it by switching instead of chasing.
The inside guy takes Slayton as he cuts in, instead of chasing Rudolph as he swings out, and the outside DB just waits for Rudolph to come to him.
It's on Jones to see that rather than mechanically throw the ball as if the design had worked as intended.
So you feel a post-snap awareness issue. At least on that play?
So you feel a post-snap awareness issue. At least on that play?
Yes, he had made up his mind where he was going for the ball, instead of giving himself a moment to see what the DBs were doing.
For anyone who saw D Smith's first TD for Philly vs Atlanta, that's the way the rub play is supposed to work.
What play would you like the tight end to make there, hemmed in by the sideline with 2 DBs right there and another approaching?
If you only saw one DB there, get your eyes checked.
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He threw the ball to his tight end and his TE didn't make a play. Couldn't beat one DB. Speaking of DBs if he turns and throws it to KG he hangs him out to dry. But yeah...I guess it's difficult bro tell considering you can't see all the DBs in a still photo
What play would you like the tight end to make there, hemmed in by the sideline with 2 DBs right there and another approaching?
If you only saw one DB there, get your eyes checked.
What do you think Slaytons responsibility is there?
I also find the assertion that Golladay is so much more wide open than than Rudolph and sheer momentum will automatically generate a 1st down to be laughable. Rudolph has about 6 yards of space, Golladay about the same though maybe 7. They've both got DBs already moving into position to make a play. We can't even tell where Golladay is in his break or what the final vector of his route is from this screenshot. He could be hitting a slant or flattening out at the 10. True, working towards the middle rather than the sideline gives him more room to work, but that S is still just waiting to close in, most likely before Golladay gets the 1st.
This play and drive sucked, no doubt about it. But we jerkoffs at home have no idea whose fault it is and attempting to assign blame based on a single screenshot is fruitless. DJ could be getting reamed for the exact reasons you state, or he could be getting praised for doing everything the coaching staff is telling him to do on this play. We'll never know.
He lacks the skill set to be a top QB in the NFL. Being a nice guy, a hard worker and liked by his teammates is meaningless if you can't throw on the run, can't read the defense pre and post snap, can't set the protections, feel the rush or move in the pocket to find throwing lanes and space, can't look off safeties and LB's and lack an elite throwing arm. There's a reason no one in the NFL or the media that covers the NFL thought the Giants made a good choice on this player that early in the draft.
He has somewhere between 1 and 16 games left to prove everyone wrong or he's gone, the guy who picked him is gone and some if not all of the coaching staff will be gone too. Top 10 QB busts get people fired.
What I don’t know now though is where the hell all the other posters are that supported Daniel Jones in this third year. They have simply disappeared...some from talking about Jones or others just blaming Garret and even Judge now, and even others have just disappeared altogether.
Where are you guys?
They can arbitrarily observe matter at point B and by observing change the intrinsic nature of that matter from wave to particle. Then they can go back to point A (before point B) where's there's a recorder and the object is always what it turns into.
I'd go on, but I'd increasingly sound like you guys, flapping your gums and telling the world that you can tell more from an incomplete photo than the full time experts can from hours of game film, brilliant assistants and an limited databaze. "If only they'd listen to me
Moglwi on the Banderlog, "they say they are the smartest people in the jungle, and it must be so, because they all say it".
Anybody else still there for DJ...anybody?
But nothing on our QB...
But nothing on our QB...
No, its just that unlike you we don't like repeating ourselves over and over and over again, on thread after thread.
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but there is nothing. Just a bunch of guys that think that Dak, Jackson, Allen and Mayfield all losing is hilarious.
But nothing on our QB...
No, its just that unlike you we don't like repeating ourselves over and over and over again, on thread after thread.
I got to give Plank some credit. I think I have actually seen him with a fair amount of posting supporting DJ, just like Zeke.
And I will look into that whole repeating myself too...just for you!
But if that is their true objective opinions, then so be it...where are they?
I am not talking about the boring posters that sit on the fence. I am talking about the vocal regulars that will argue until the cows come home about anything and everything NY Giants. The ones that holler and are fine getting hollered at.
Crickets...
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I am guessing if they were to talk about Jones' issues in the first game they would be accused of abandoning Jones, if they share opinions that perhaps Jones played better than he looked they would get hollered at for being defenders.
But if that is their true objective opinions, then so be it...where are they?
I am not talking about the boring posters that sit on the fence. I am talking about the vocal regulars that will argue until the cows come home about anything and everything NY Giants. The ones that holler and are fine getting hollered at.
Crickets...
I think you called it before when you said that people are talking about other things like how Garrett needs to find a way for guys like Saquon and Jones to shine. We have seen them both produce before he got here.
What are you babbling about? I am asking where the DJ supporters are on the site, not keeping score of anything. It’s been one game for Pete’s sake...nothing has been decided.
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At people for keeping score of opinions on here?
What are you babbling about? I am asking where the DJ supporters are on the site, not keeping score of anything. It’s been one game for Pete’s sake...nothing has been decided.
Lol. You are literally calling them out.
And what have I not opined about that does not meet your standards?
DJ is going to put up some good games and he owns the WFT as well so it could be Thur. Why is that not being discussed...
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In comment 15367027 crick n NC said:
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I am guessing if they were to talk about Jones' issues in the first game they would be accused of abandoning Jones, if they share opinions that perhaps Jones played better than he looked they would get hollered at for being defenders.
But if that is their true objective opinions, then so be it...where are they?
I am not talking about the boring posters that sit on the fence. I am talking about the vocal regulars that will argue until the cows come home about anything and everything NY Giants. The ones that holler and are fine getting hollered at.
Crickets...
I think you called it before when you said that people are talking about other things like how Garrett needs to find a way for guys like Saquon and Jones to shine. We have seen them both produce before he got here.
Maybe some guys who have transitioned to bitching about Garrett moreso now. But still plenty of DJ supporters that seemed to have...moved on?
Maybe they come alive on Thurs night.
The second down play (or 1st down play) should have been the aggressive play to get out of a hole. You need to play to win, not play to not lose.
Instead, they played it safe and even though Denver needed a 4th down conversion at mid field, they got it and made the Giants pay for giving the ball back before the half.
To me, this was the turning point of the game.
Maybe he improves this season. One game down, 16 to go...