And Gettleman is promptly fired, do you think Mara let’s Judge hire the GM. Someone Judge knows and trust, or do you rebuild completely with a new GM new Head Coach combination. I say this because a lot of Head coaches have chosen their GMs. Shannahan chose John Lynch. Pete Carroll chose John Schneider and etc. It’s a big trend among successful coaches.
He fired Reese midseason, and Gettleman is way less accomplished.
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He fired Reese midseason, and Gettleman is way less accomplished.
That is true, but I think that was more about how Reese/McAdoo handled the Eli benching (and how John Mara tried to clean his fingerprints off the crime scene). Otherwise, I think they would have waited on firing both of them.
If it’s mainly the OL or DJ, then these are squarely on Gettleman.
If it’s the team overall on both sides of the ball, then JJs honeymoon is over, though he’s probably not going anywhere for at least another year.
Regardless though, this is probably DGs last year and the record determines his legacy. Jones and Garrett however are the ones with the most to gain ... or lose.
YET. No doubt in my mind he will be though
If they get the doors blown off them by Tyler Heninke...100 percent agree with you.
That didn't seem to take long.
1st game was on the coaches...
The team has issues.....but talent wise is pretty close to other teams.
My fiancé has friends in Holly Springs. Small world.
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YET. No doubt in my mind he will be though
No doubt? None? 6-11 career record. No doubts? The bar around NY Giants football gets lower by the day!
RE: Thanks Sy’56
Sy'56 : 3:52 am : link : reply
In comment 15365261 M.S. said:
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Quick question: if Gettleman is retired/fired at end of season, should his replacement be given the power to jettison Joe Judge and his coaching staff if he so desires?
I strongly believe every Head Coach should get a minimum of 3 full seasons. Throw in Judge's first season was a pandemic-year AND this team has gotten better under his leadership...no, he should not be replaced if a new GM comes in.
The best GM candidate should be hired regardless of philosophical alignment with Judge. If Judge isn't replaced this year (assuming a bad year and DG is replaced), one more bad year (with a rookie QB), and Judge is gone too. Trying to keep the band together, and staying inside the organization, is why we're where we are.
get your lipstick ready...
So you think they DONT scout all of the prospects? You believe they only scout for need? Really?
Divert the scouts from scouting?
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YET. No doubt in my mind he will be though
sometimes I wish I could be this type of fan. Must be nice just being blindly optimistic all the time.
It’s clear Judge & Graham are close, but is this really Judge’s offense?
I never understood either the HC and GM being on the same level reporting to the owner or the HC reporting to the GM.
I never understood either the HC and GM being on the same level reporting to the owner or the HC reporting to the GM.
Excellent post. The Head Coach should be the CEO of the team. I think Judge has the personality and temperament to be a successful CEO.
I never understood either the HC and GM being on the same level reporting to the owner or the HC reporting to the GM.
Agreed 100%. I wonder with Judge though, is it more challenging since he doesn’t “run” the offense? Meaning, any good young OC who may eventually come in will just leave for a head gig eventually. That’s the challenge with having a HC who doesn’t specialize in either side of the ball. The Niners never have to worry about the offense with Shanahan.
Agree. Judge is hear to stay most likely, and I’d like his influence on the next QB.
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Gettleman is fired or retires and Judge is retained I think Mara will control the recruitment process but will have the final prospects meet with Judge to ensure they are philosophically aligned. Mara sees Judge as a Mini Belichick/Saban but Mara is very much about the traditional division of powers.
The best GM candidate should be hired regardless of philosophical alignment with Judge. If Judge isn't replaced this year (assuming a bad year and DG is replaced), one more bad year (with a rookie QB), and Judge is gone too. Trying to keep the band together, and staying inside the organization, is why we're where we are.
But, assuming they would keep him in this scenario, wouldn't the best GM candidate have some philosophical alignment with Judge?
Mara probably loves his wife, but he's not letting her pick the next GM, either.
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I don't see us paying dead money with Judge only having 2 yrs under his belt unless he makes a public disgrace of himself.
Agree. Judge is hear to stay most likely, and I’d like his influence on the next QB.
If I had to guess, Judge would probably bring in a special teams ace to play QB
I would like to see thr Giants give the keys to Judge and get a GM that will work with him to build this team in his vision..
The problem with that is it will be hard to sell to the fans kf the Giants have a 4-13 year..
Jusge does have to start winning
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In comment 15366753 Les in TO said:
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Gettleman is fired or retires and Judge is retained I think Mara will control the recruitment process but will have the final prospects meet with Judge to ensure they are philosophically aligned. Mara sees Judge as a Mini Belichick/Saban but Mara is very much about the traditional division of powers.
The best GM candidate should be hired regardless of philosophical alignment with Judge. If Judge isn't replaced this year (assuming a bad year and DG is replaced), one more bad year (with a rookie QB), and Judge is gone too. Trying to keep the band together, and staying inside the organization, is why we're where we are.
But, assuming they would keep him in this scenario, wouldn't the best GM candidate have some philosophical alignment with Judge?
You'd hope so. But do you essentially see Mara giving Judge veto power over the next GM?
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In comment 15366706 Bold Ruler said:
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He fired Reese midseason, and Gettleman is way less accomplished.
That is true, but I think that was more about how Reese/McAdoo handled the Eli benching (and how John Mara tried to clean his fingerprints off the crime scene). Otherwise, I think they would have waited on firing both of them.
My sense was that Giant fans were going to go nuts at the home game following the Oakland trip and Mara was desperate to avoid the public relations nightmare that was set to occur.
I am more than certain that that is why he fired both Reese and McAdoo mid-season.
Front office and coaching staff
Hires the best GM out there who then selects his coach and staff
The only question mark with new coach is what to do with DJ and draft
If the season implodes, I want everyone gone including Judge. First, though, would be getting rid of DG and Jones.
I used to be sure the Giants were going to pay Barkley a 2nd contract, but now I’m not so sure. Lawrence Tynes has started to make some noise on Twitter and he is pretty close to team run media. He just isn’t moving the needle with wins & losses.
@lt4kicks
Saquon played his 32nd game in a Giants uniform on Sunday.
The Giants are 8-24 in those games.
#TogetherBlue
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In comment 15366757 GMen72 said:
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In comment 15366753 Les in TO said:
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Gettleman is fired or retires and Judge is retained I think Mara will control the recruitment process but will have the final prospects meet with Judge to ensure they are philosophically aligned. Mara sees Judge as a Mini Belichick/Saban but Mara is very much about the traditional division of powers.
The best GM candidate should be hired regardless of philosophical alignment with Judge. If Judge isn't replaced this year (assuming a bad year and DG is replaced), one more bad year (with a rookie QB), and Judge is gone too. Trying to keep the band together, and staying inside the organization, is why we're where we are.
But, assuming they would keep him in this scenario, wouldn't the best GM candidate have some philosophical alignment with Judge?
You'd hope so. But do you essentially see Mara giving Judge veto power over the next GM?
If the owner believes as much in the head coach as we assume he does, then veto power shouldn't be necessary, it should be implied that they would work together in the search for a new GM. If not, it would be best if they part ways.
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of the 49ers/Shanahan model. The HC should be the CEO of the football team with the GM catering to his player needs and a cap guru handling contracts and cap management. And in terms of delegation of authority, the HC has final say on ALL football matters.
I never understood either the HC and GM being on the same level reporting to the owner or the HC reporting to the GM.
Agreed 100%. I wonder with Judge though, is it more challenging since he doesn’t “run” the offense? Meaning, any good young OC who may eventually come in will just leave for a head gig eventually. That’s the challenge with having a HC who doesn’t specialize in either side of the ball. The Niners never have to worry about the offense with Shanahan.
I never thought of it that way, but that's a good point. Special teams are obviously important, but the expertise doesn't have the cachet as the expertise with building an offense or defense.
Yes, spirals come in all different sizes.
they won a superbowl 10 years ago, dear lord
Mara could be a fine owner if he accepted the fact that he’s not a football man. Just be an owner and get out of the way. This is something he did well in the first half of Eli’s career.
It appears he’s been meddling much more in football decisions since after the 2013 season.
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The issue with me...the fish rots from the head. I have no confidence-NONE-in Mara making the right call, be it firing DG & letting JJ run the show, which I think would be the best play. The Maras seem like good people, but their football acumen isn't exactly off the charts. Thank God for Rozelle back in the '70s or we could be looking at Detroit like incompetence.
they won a superbowl 10 years ago, dear lord
nygiants, I stand by the fact that I don't think Mara-or his old man-would be confused for football savants.
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In comment 15366789 middleground said:
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In comment 15366757 GMen72 said:
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In comment 15366753 Les in TO said:
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Gettleman is fired or retires and Judge is retained I think Mara will control the recruitment process but will have the final prospects meet with Judge to ensure they are philosophically aligned. Mara sees Judge as a Mini Belichick/Saban but Mara is very much about the traditional division of powers.
The best GM candidate should be hired regardless of philosophical alignment with Judge. If Judge isn't replaced this year (assuming a bad year and DG is replaced), one more bad year (with a rookie QB), and Judge is gone too. Trying to keep the band together, and staying inside the organization, is why we're where we are.
But, assuming they would keep him in this scenario, wouldn't the best GM candidate have some philosophical alignment with Judge?
You'd hope so. But do you essentially see Mara giving Judge veto power over the next GM?
If the owner believes as much in the head coach as we assume he does, then veto power shouldn't be necessary, it should be implied that they would work together in the search for a new GM. If not, it would be best if they part ways.
So, if the Giants win 5 games (hypothetically) this year. You're going to give an 11-22 HC the decision making power over the organization? Based on what? Great press conferences? Then we'll officially be the Houston Texans.
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In comment 15366850 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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The issue with me...the fish rots from the head. I have no confidence-NONE-in Mara making the right call, be it firing DG & letting JJ run the show, which I think would be the best play. The Maras seem like good people, but their football acumen isn't exactly off the charts. Thank God for Rozelle back in the '70s or we could be looking at Detroit like incompetence.
they won a superbowl 10 years ago, dear lord
nygiants, I stand by the fact that I don't think Mara-or his old man-would be confused for football savants.
Ok and who cares? owners are only as good as the people they hire, he has made the wrong hire the past 10 years but it doesnt make him a terrible owner..
for me a terrible owner is someone who doesnt care, just wants to make mpney and wont spend the money to make his team better..
Yeah, an owner who only wants to make money sucks. But an owner who also thinks he's the smartest guy in the room when he isn't...well, they suck too.
Yeah, an owner who only wants to make money sucks. But an owner who also thinks he's the smartest guy in the room when he isn't...well, they suck too.
but do we actually know this to be true? do we actually know Mara meddles? he hires guys he is familiar with that we know is true..
even Judge he was hired on the recomendation of Belichek
Yeah, an owner who only wants to make money sucks. But an owner who also thinks he's the smartest guy in the room when he isn't...well, they suck too.
If you can fault Mara, he’s probably too nice and far too loyal.
The terrible comes from other characters in this show...
The ENTIRE NFL knows that the Giants have a LOUSY OL, so the idea of this season going southbound and out of control is pretty much inevitable.
Gettleman should have been fired after the Denver game, actually, Gettleman should have never been hired in the first place.
The way Gettleman tries to gain players for the OL is through other team's cut lists.....that's not the way to improve a team.
Gettleman also drafted Daniel "butter-fingers" Jones, who will never be a qualified starting QB in the NFL.
It’s a very complicated and challenging to build a consistent team. If you hit on your QB and HC with a solid functional OL your a .500 team without significant injuries. Beyond that takes good consistent drafting with a little luck imv.
With Eli it was the OL. Right now it’s still the OL, probably the QB and Judge is a TBD.
The ENTIRE NFL knows that the Giants have a LOUSY OL, so the idea of this season going southbound and out of control is pretty much inevitable.
Gettleman should have been fired after the Denver game, actually, Gettleman should have never been hired in the first place.
The way Gettleman tries to gain players for the OL is through other team's cut lists.....that's not the way to improve a team.
Gettleman also drafted Daniel "butter-fingers" Jones, who will never be a qualified starting QB in the NFL.
gettleman hasnt drafted for the oline?
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In comment 15366797 Bill in UT said:
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In comment 15366789 middleground said:
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In comment 15366757 GMen72 said:
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In comment 15366753 Les in TO said:
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Gettleman is fired or retires and Judge is retained I think Mara will control the recruitment process but will have the final prospects meet with Judge to ensure they are philosophically aligned. Mara sees Judge as a Mini Belichick/Saban but Mara is very much about the traditional division of powers.
The best GM candidate should be hired regardless of philosophical alignment with Judge. If Judge isn't replaced this year (assuming a bad year and DG is replaced), one more bad year (with a rookie QB), and Judge is gone too. Trying to keep the band together, and staying inside the organization, is why we're where we are.
But, assuming they would keep him in this scenario, wouldn't the best GM candidate have some philosophical alignment with Judge?
You'd hope so. But do you essentially see Mara giving Judge veto power over the next GM?
If the owner believes as much in the head coach as we assume he does, then veto power shouldn't be necessary, it should be implied that they would work together in the search for a new GM. If not, it would be best if they part ways.
So, if the Giants win 5 games (hypothetically) this year. You're going to give an 11-22 HC the decision making power over the organization? Based on what? Great press conferences? Then we'll officially be the Houston Texans.
I wasn't saying anything about giving decision making power to Judge. I was attempting to say two things. That any organization undergoing a regime change would benefit from hiring a GM and a coach with congruent football philosophies and that, if Judge is kept over his GM (and presumably the current quarterback) Mara would more than likely involve the one remaining important figure in the search for a new GM. If the thinking is to clean house and then go about reorganization without consulting the most crucial figure left, then we're spinning our wheels again.
2? jesus its not even week 6 yet
100% he hired Garrett and his crap offense. Shurmer with equal or less talent got much more from Jones in his rookie year no less, and his superiority over JG running the offense was evident Sunday.
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behind 2 terrible seasons, why would you let him pick anything related to longterm success? You mentioned successful HCs...Judge has done nothing to this point worthy of making organizational decisions.
2? jesus its not even week 6 yet
The title of the thread is a hypothetical...yet, you're here to get butthurt over another?
However I really don't see Mara firing Gettelman until the end of the season.
I wonder if Olive Garden stole their “When you’re here your family” slogan from the Mara’s.
So, it’s always the coaches fault? Wouldn’t we learn by the third time around these issues run MUCH deeper than the head coach?
And if Daniel Jones, Saquon and the Defense show a little more then we have something better to talk about than this.
Right?
And if Daniel Jones, Saquon and the Defense show a little more then we have something better to talk about than this.
Right?
Right
I think he has made some aggressive and great moves in the last 2 years.
Maybe it will be the coaching staff .... AGAIN?
You are absolutely correct. I seriously doubt Judge would have drafted Barkley 2nd over and I'd like to think he's smart enough to have drafted a quarterback, specifically Josh Allen. I also doubt Judge would have hired Garrett as his OC. However, only after the Giants win more games than they lose will Judge be in a position to hire his own OC and possibly argue for a new QB if he's not able to put an end to DJ's fumbling.
They may turn it around, it is early in the season.
Thinking the season might spiral out of control is not an unreasonable take considering 7 out of the last 8 years of recent Giants history.
I like Judge, but he has been given a faulty OC due to the owner's input. Garret should have never been hired. Dave Gettleman also should've never been hired.
If Mara had taken a step back, instead of hiring his old friend, maybe this team would be in a different spot right now.