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If the season spirals out of control

JoeyBigBlue : 9/14/2021 4:32 pm
And Gettleman is promptly fired, do you think Mara let’s Judge hire the GM. Someone Judge knows and trust, or do you rebuild completely with a new GM new Head Coach combination. I say this because a lot of Head coaches have chosen their GMs. Shannahan chose John Lynch. Pete Carroll chose John Schneider and etc. It’s a big trend among successful coaches.
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I'll have a heart attack from shock if Mara fires Gettleman mid season  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 9/14/2021 4:35 pm : link
.
*when  
KDavies : 9/14/2021 4:37 pm : link
sorry, had to
I agree with BR,  
Section331 : 9/14/2021 4:37 pm : link
I don't see them making any major changes mid-season. After the season, would they let Judge pick the GM? I think he'll be a voice in the room, but final decision will come down to the Mara's.
RE: I'll have a heart attack from shock if Mara fires Gettleman mid season  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/14/2021 4:37 pm : link
In comment 15366706 Bold Ruler said:
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He fired Reese midseason, and Gettleman is way less accomplished.
Nope.  
FranknWeezer : 9/14/2021 4:37 pm : link
It's going to be an in-house promotion of Abrams or O'Brien. They're family.
on a serious note, what in God's name has Judge done  
KDavies : 9/14/2021 4:38 pm : link
that he should have the power to name the GM? I like Judge, but come on.
Judge is not a successful coach  
AnnapolisMike : 9/14/2021 4:38 pm : link
.
If Judge is the mastermind  
GMen72 : 9/14/2021 4:39 pm : link
behind 2 terrible seasons, why would you let him pick anything related to longterm success? You mentioned successful HCs...Judge has done nothing to this point worthy of making organizational decisions.
if things fall apart  
KDavies : 9/14/2021 4:39 pm : link
is Judge not at least somewhat to blame? The Giants have enough talent to wear things should not fall completely apart.
I mention keeping Judge  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/14/2021 4:42 pm : link
Because I heard Mike Francesca say that Mara loves Judge.
RE: RE: I'll have a heart attack from shock if Mara fires Gettleman mid season  
Section331 : 9/14/2021 4:42 pm : link
In comment 15366712 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 15366706 Bold Ruler said:


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He fired Reese midseason, and Gettleman is way less accomplished.


That is true, but I think that was more about how Reese/McAdoo handled the Eli benching (and how John Mara tried to clean his fingerprints off the crime scene). Otherwise, I think they would have waited on firing both of them.
Judge was saddled with Gettleman and Jones  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/14/2021 4:43 pm : link
When he took the job. He also seems to have been saddled with Garrett, which is wasn’t his hire.
If they lose Thursday it could get ugly  
Go Terps : 9/14/2021 4:44 pm : link
.
if the season goes to shit, the key question will be why ?  
Spider56 : 9/14/2021 4:44 pm : link
If it’s the offense in general, then JG has to be the first to go.
If it’s mainly the OL or DJ, then these are squarely on Gettleman.
If it’s the team overall on both sides of the ball, then JJs honeymoon is over, though he’s probably not going anywhere for at least another year.

Regardless though, this is probably DGs last year and the record determines his legacy. Jones and Garrett however are the ones with the most to gain ... or lose.
RE: Judge is not a successful coach  
LTIsTheGreatest : 9/14/2021 4:46 pm : link
In comment 15366715 AnnapolisMike said:
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YET. No doubt in my mind he will be though
RE: If they lose Thursday it could get ugly  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/14/2021 4:50 pm : link
In comment 15366725 Go Terps said:
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If they get the doors blown off them by Tyler Heninke...100 percent agree with you.
September 16th on the calendar  
chick310 : 9/14/2021 4:50 pm : link
and it's already a make or break game for the season.

That didn't seem to take long.
Maybe Gettleman and Jones were saddled with Joe Judge  
ghost718 : 9/14/2021 4:50 pm : link
Putting things backwards can sometimes put the world back in order.
Well...if season spirals out of control,  
George from PA : 9/14/2021 4:55 pm : link
Wouldn't that be Judges fault?

1st game was on the coaches...

The team has issues.....but talent wise is pretty close to other teams.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/14/2021 4:57 pm : link
This place could be really dark come Thursday night.
RE: ...  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/14/2021 4:59 pm : link
In comment 15366746 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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This place could be really dark come Thursday night.


My fiancé has friends in Holly Springs. Small world.
RE: RE: Judge is not a successful coach  
GMen72 : 9/14/2021 5:00 pm : link
In comment 15366731 LTIsTheGreatest said:
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In comment 15366715 AnnapolisMike said:


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YET. No doubt in my mind he will be though


No doubt? None? 6-11 career record. No doubts? The bar around NY Giants football gets lower by the day!
See this answer from Sy'56  
M.S. : 9/14/2021 5:04 pm : link


RE: Thanks Sy’56
Sy'56 : 3:52 am : link : reply
In comment 15365261 M.S. said:
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Quick question: if Gettleman is retired/fired at end of season, should his replacement be given the power to jettison Joe Judge and his coaching staff if he so desires?


I strongly believe every Head Coach should get a minimum of 3 full seasons. Throw in Judge's first season was a pandemic-year AND this team has gotten better under his leadership...no, he should not be replaced if a new GM comes in.
If  
Les in TO : 9/14/2021 5:04 pm : link
Gettleman is fired or retires and Judge is retained I think Mara will control the recruitment process but will have the final prospects meet with Judge to ensure they are philosophically aligned. Mara sees Judge as a Mini Belichick/Saban but Mara is very much about the traditional division of powers.
RE: If  
GMen72 : 9/14/2021 5:10 pm : link
In comment 15366753 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Gettleman is fired or retires and Judge is retained I think Mara will control the recruitment process but will have the final prospects meet with Judge to ensure they are philosophically aligned. Mara sees Judge as a Mini Belichick/Saban but Mara is very much about the traditional division of powers.


The best GM candidate should be hired regardless of philosophical alignment with Judge. If Judge isn't replaced this year (assuming a bad year and DG is replaced), one more bad year (with a rookie QB), and Judge is gone too. Trying to keep the band together, and staying inside the organization, is why we're where we are.
The only question I have is:  
bluewave : 9/14/2021 5:12 pm : link
Are they planning on scouting the top college quarterbacks this season? I have no idea how the scouting process works but I have to imagine you have a finite amount of resources to do that sort of work. Do you divert such resources into looking at this year's class?
RE: If they lose Thursday it could get ugly  
EricJ : 9/14/2021 5:17 pm : link
In comment 15366725 Go Terps said:
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get your lipstick ready...
RE: The only question I have is:  
EricJ : 9/14/2021 5:18 pm : link
In comment 15366759 bluewave said:
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Are they planning on scouting the top college quarterbacks this season? I have no idea how the scouting process works but I have to imagine you have a finite amount of resources to do that sort of work. Do you divert such resources into looking at this year's class?


So you think they DONT scout all of the prospects? You believe they only scout for need? Really?
RE: The only question I have is:  
Jimmy Googs : 9/14/2021 5:18 pm : link
In comment 15366759 bluewave said:
Quote:
Are they planning on scouting the top college quarterbacks this season? I have no idea how the scouting process works but I have to imagine you have a finite amount of resources to do that sort of work. Do you divert such resources into looking at this year's class?


Divert the scouts from scouting?
RE: RE: Judge is not a successful coach  
Enzo : 9/14/2021 5:20 pm : link
In comment 15366731 LTIsTheGreatest said:
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In comment 15366715 AnnapolisMike said:


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YET. No doubt in my mind he will be though

sometimes I wish I could be this type of fan. Must be nice just being blindly optimistic all the time.
"do you think Mara let’s Judge hire the GM"  
shadow_spinner0 : 9/14/2021 5:22 pm : link
You reference Shanahan but Judge hasn't done anything in this league to earn that kind of pull. If the GM goes, then most likely we get a new head coach unless they like Judge. Ideally I hope for a GM who embraces analytics and seems to live in the 2020's
The thing to keep in mind with Judge..  
Sean : 9/14/2021 5:22 pm : link
He doesn’t specialize on either side of the ball, so he is dependent on strong coordinators. If Mara forces Garrett or Judge continues to stick with him, he could blow up his chance at being a head coach.

It’s clear Judge & Graham are close, but is this really Judge’s offense?
I'll  
BigBlueinDE : 9/14/2021 5:27 pm : link
Go find something else to do. Not going to let the results of a game or direction of a football team control my life.
I'm a big proponent...  
bw in dc : 9/14/2021 5:28 pm : link
of the 49ers/Shanahan model. The HC should be the CEO of the football team with the GM catering to his player needs and a cap guru handling contracts and cap management. And in terms of delegation of authority, the HC has final say on ALL football matters.

I never understood either the HC and GM being on the same level reporting to the owner or the HC reporting to the GM.

McAdoo came off the books last year; We still paying Shurmur I believe  
Mike in ramapo college : 9/14/2021 5:31 pm : link
I don't see us paying dead money with Judge only having 2 yrs under his belt unless he makes a public disgrace of himself.
RE: I'm a big proponent...  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/14/2021 5:32 pm : link
In comment 15366773 bw in dc said:
Quote:
of the 49ers/Shanahan model. The HC should be the CEO of the football team with the GM catering to his player needs and a cap guru handling contracts and cap management. And in terms of delegation of authority, the HC has final say on ALL football matters.

I never understood either the HC and GM being on the same level reporting to the owner or the HC reporting to the GM.



Excellent post. The Head Coach should be the CEO of the team. I think Judge has the personality and temperament to be a successful CEO.
RE: I'm a big proponent...  
Sean : 9/14/2021 5:34 pm : link
In comment 15366773 bw in dc said:
Quote:
of the 49ers/Shanahan model. The HC should be the CEO of the football team with the GM catering to his player needs and a cap guru handling contracts and cap management. And in terms of delegation of authority, the HC has final say on ALL football matters.

I never understood either the HC and GM being on the same level reporting to the owner or the HC reporting to the GM.

Agreed 100%. I wonder with Judge though, is it more challenging since he doesn’t “run” the offense? Meaning, any good young OC who may eventually come in will just leave for a head gig eventually. That’s the challenge with having a HC who doesn’t specialize in either side of the ball. The Niners never have to worry about the offense with Shanahan.
RE: McAdoo came off the books last year; We still paying Shurmur I believe  
Sean : 9/14/2021 5:40 pm : link
In comment 15366776 Mike in ramapo college said:
Quote:
I don't see us paying dead money with Judge only having 2 yrs under his belt unless he makes a public disgrace of himself.

Agree. Judge is hear to stay most likely, and I’d like his influence on the next QB.
RE: RE: If  
middleground : 9/14/2021 5:40 pm : link
In comment 15366757 GMen72 said:
Quote:
In comment 15366753 Les in TO said:


Quote:


Gettleman is fired or retires and Judge is retained I think Mara will control the recruitment process but will have the final prospects meet with Judge to ensure they are philosophically aligned. Mara sees Judge as a Mini Belichick/Saban but Mara is very much about the traditional division of powers.



The best GM candidate should be hired regardless of philosophical alignment with Judge. If Judge isn't replaced this year (assuming a bad year and DG is replaced), one more bad year (with a rookie QB), and Judge is gone too. Trying to keep the band together, and staying inside the organization, is why we're where we are.


But, assuming they would keep him in this scenario, wouldn't the best GM candidate have some philosophical alignment with Judge?
RE: I mention keeping Judge  
Bill in UT : 9/14/2021 5:42 pm : link
In comment 15366719 JoeyBigBlue said:
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Because I heard Mike Francesca say that Mara loves Judge.


Mara probably loves his wife, but he's not letting her pick the next GM, either.
I believe in Judge  
Go Terps : 9/14/2021 5:45 pm : link
Before I'm going to be critical of him I need to see the shackles of Mara/Gettleman removed. Gettleman, Garrett, Jones, and Barkley...get them all out of here and let Judge operate his project his way.
RE: RE: McAdoo came off the books last year; We still paying Shurmur I believe  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/14/2021 5:46 pm : link
In comment 15366788 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 15366776 Mike in ramapo college said:


Quote:


I don't see us paying dead money with Judge only having 2 yrs under his belt unless he makes a public disgrace of himself.


Agree. Judge is hear to stay most likely, and I’d like his influence on the next QB.


If I had to guess, Judge would probably bring in a special teams ace to play QB
I like Judge  
nygiants16 : 9/14/2021 5:51 pm : link
I think he can be the CEO type of coach who takes the bullets for the franchise, kind of like Mike Tomlin..

I would like to see thr Giants give the keys to Judge and get a GM that will work with him to build this team in his vision..

The problem with that is it will be hard to sell to the fans kf the Giants have a 4-13 year..

Jusge does have to start winning
One game.  
Photoguy : 9/14/2021 5:52 pm : link
They've played one fucking game, and you people talking about spiraling out of control........God help me. This place sucks sometimes.
RE: RE: RE: If  
Bill in UT : 9/14/2021 5:52 pm : link
In comment 15366789 middleground said:
Quote:
In comment 15366757 GMen72 said:


Quote:


In comment 15366753 Les in TO said:


Quote:


Gettleman is fired or retires and Judge is retained I think Mara will control the recruitment process but will have the final prospects meet with Judge to ensure they are philosophically aligned. Mara sees Judge as a Mini Belichick/Saban but Mara is very much about the traditional division of powers.



The best GM candidate should be hired regardless of philosophical alignment with Judge. If Judge isn't replaced this year (assuming a bad year and DG is replaced), one more bad year (with a rookie QB), and Judge is gone too. Trying to keep the band together, and staying inside the organization, is why we're where we are.



But, assuming they would keep him in this scenario, wouldn't the best GM candidate have some philosophical alignment with Judge?


You'd hope so. But do you essentially see Mara giving Judge veto power over the next GM?
RE: RE: RE: I'll have a heart attack from shock if Mara fires Gettleman mid season  
Hammer : 9/14/2021 5:52 pm : link
In comment 15366720 Section331 said:
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In comment 15366712 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15366706 Bold Ruler said:


Quote:


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He fired Reese midseason, and Gettleman is way less accomplished.



That is true, but I think that was more about how Reese/McAdoo handled the Eli benching (and how John Mara tried to clean his fingerprints off the crime scene). Otherwise, I think they would have waited on firing both of them.


My sense was that Giant fans were going to go nuts at the home game following the Oakland trip and Mara was desperate to avoid the public relations nightmare that was set to occur.

I am more than certain that that is why he fired both Reese and McAdoo mid-season.
Clean house  
jeff57 : 9/14/2021 5:53 pm : link
Top to bottom. After the season. Most important thing is to bring in a GM with no Mara ties.
And let's not forget  
Bill in UT : 9/14/2021 5:55 pm : link
Judge says, at least publicly, that he enjoys working with Getty. If you can believe anything that anyone in the organization says publicly, lol. The only one I really trust is Dottino
Not making playoffs and sub 500 season  
Earl the goat : 9/14/2021 5:59 pm : link
Mara cleans house
Front office and coaching staff
Hires the best GM out there who then selects his coach and staff
The only question mark with new coach is what to do with DJ and draft
So let me get this straight..  
RUNYG : 9/14/2021 6:06 pm : link
If the season implodes (assuming by that you mean like 4-12 or worse), your solution is to fire the GM and give the current HC full control over hiring a new GM?

If the season implodes, I want everyone gone including Judge. First, though, would be getting rid of DG and Jones.
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