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1 catch 1 yard for SB, not close to being good enough

UberAlias : 9/15/2021 11:48 am
This team elected to spend the #2 overall pick on a RB, against most people's judgement. A big part of his game was supposed to be what he can do as a pass catcher, not just as a runner, and we saw that his rookie year when he had 91 receptions for 721 yards. I watched the Carolina game last week and you better believe CM was a huge part of the game plan with 9 receptions for 89 yards, in addition to his 21 carries. They were going to get him the ball, in may ways, and get the ball in his hand out in space.

I get it, SB is coming off of injury. But if he wasn't healthy enough, they should have rested up and made sure he was ready for divisional game on short week. I have to assume he was good to go outside of some rust, but then you have one measly catch for a single yard. Same number of catches as CJ Board, Booker, and Gary Brightwell. I'm sorry, but the running game was for shit, they needed to find ways to get SB out into space. That should be a game plan in every game that Barkley is wearing a jersey. Of the many, many, reasons Jason Garrett should not be calling plays for us, I present to you, exhibit A.
The man hasn't  
Beer Man : 9/15/2021 12:01 pm : link
Played in a game in over a year and missed all of the preseason. Lets give him some time to get his football legs back and to get back into the swing of things.
the problem with giving him some time is at the expense of  
MartyNJ1969 : 9/15/2021 12:05 pm : link
getting a win. IMO Saquon should be on the PUP list and continue rehab until he is really ready with his cuts on a dime. If he can't cut the way he did in year one, he really is no helping us until he can do that again.
Injury or not  
Essex : 9/15/2021 12:12 pm : link
with game changing players such as Nelson and Chubb at positions of high draft value and positions we needed, still there, drafting SB might have been the dumbest decision in NY Giant history. We had busts before and SB is far from a bust, but given the #2 overall pick and our needs, I will never understand that decision, ever.
I was unhappy with one play  
jvm52106 : 9/15/2021 12:14 pm : link
by Barkley and it was the dropped pass over the middle. For a threat out of the backfield he has dropped a decent number of passes in his career.
Would you even sign SB to an extension?  
Essex : 9/15/2021 12:15 pm : link
I know I wouldn't, even if he had a nice (1,000 yard rushing 500 receiving) season. The injury by itself would make me wary in tying any significant guaranteed money his way. He already by being the second pick is highly paid for his position (unlike other rookies) and the mere thought of compounding the error by tying up money in him would strike me as a bad decision,
This was always my defense of the Sb pick;  
Mike from SI : 9/15/2021 12:18 pm : link
that he could be used as a hybrid RB/WR or as a Ladianian-type pass-catching threat out of the backfield. He has not been utilized as much in this way to my liking. Last game was his first game back from injury so can't take much from that, but in general we've seen too little of him as a pass catcher.
If he is active for a game, he needs the ball  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/15/2021 12:26 pm : link
...enough with the kid gloves. We need wins NOW.

Saving him for later in the season makes no sense to me if it means losing games early in the season.
RE: the problem with giving him some time is at the expense of  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/15/2021 12:28 pm : link
In comment 15367395 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
getting a win. IMO Saquon should be on the PUP list and continue rehab until he is really ready with his cuts on a dime. If he can't cut the way he did in year one, he really is no helping us until he can do that again.


Because at this point it isn't being physically ready other than game conditioning. It's mental just as much, putting him on PUP doesn't solve either of those problems.
RE: Injury or not  
John In CO : 9/15/2021 12:29 pm : link
In comment 15367399 Essex said:
Quote:
with game changing players such as Nelson and Chubb at positions of high draft value and positions we needed, still there, drafting SB might have been the dumbest decision in NY Giant history. We had busts before and SB is far from a bust, but given the #2 overall pick and our needs, I will never understand that decision, ever.


I agree with you, and I really havent gotten past the selection of Jones over Allen yet, either; ill never understand why we picked a QB in what was fairly obviously not the greatest QB class when we still had Eli for another year. BUT...whats done is done. We have been over these decisions THOUSANDS of time of the past 3-4 years and its just really useless to continue discussing it. Like there isnt enough already to be angry about. We Cant go back in time..we got who we got. So we can only be hopeful (we can at least try) that the coaches can somehow figure out how to win some games with Barkley and DJ. If they cant, then the decision makers need to be changed out.
Unfortunately  
lax counsel : 9/15/2021 12:31 pm : link
Barkley was never going to live up this draft hype, especially given the position that Giants were in April of 2018. They needed a complete reset, and drafting a RB at #2 overall was doubling down on a failed premise. The position is dependent on so much else around it, that it could never single handedly lead the upswing of the franchise. Injuries, unfortunately, are also a significant factor in investing heavily in the position.

I expect Barkley to have a solid season, but likely not markedly better than what you would get from a running back whom the franchise did not invest its highest draft pick in a couple of decades. At this point, signing him to a long term contract is a mistake.

Except he did live up to the draft hype  
giantBCP : 9/15/2021 12:35 pm : link
He was every bit of the player that we drafted him to be in his rookie season.
.  
Go Terps : 9/15/2021 12:43 pm : link
I think the bigger issue was Golladay only having six targets. If I had to choose a guy to get the ball going his way the most, it's him. I think he needs to be getting 10+ a game and finishing the season around 180 targets. That's our best avenue to scoring points. And those targets should be coming on early downs, not just in prescribed passing situations.

That's the thing Garrett doesn't seem to understand - EVERYTHING is a passing situation. In a 17 game season we should be throwing the ball 650 times, and the higher the ADOT the better.

I think you can bet money on the Giants being one of the 8 lowest scoring teams in the league. They just don't get it.
RE: Except he did live up to the draft hype  
lax counsel : 9/15/2021 12:43 pm : link
In comment 15367418 giantBCP said:
Quote:
He was every bit of the player that we drafted him to be in his rookie season.


No, not really.
RE: Except he did live up to the draft hype  
Go Terps : 9/15/2021 12:45 pm : link
In comment 15367418 giantBCP said:
Quote:
He was every bit of the player that we drafted him to be in his rookie season.


Not really. Accumulating 2000 yards on nearly 400 plays isn't nearly as impressive or as effective as the Giants would want you to believe.
our 2 biggest playmakers barely touched the ball in the first half  
Dr. D : 9/15/2021 12:45 pm : link
Golladay wasn't targeted until (seemed like) late 2nd Q. Most of KG's 6 targets didn't come until the game was way out of hand. I don't know who's at fault, but it's got to change fast.
I was against choosing him as a draft pick ....  
Fishmanjim57 : 9/15/2021 12:47 pm : link
Since then he has shown glimpses of what he COULD become, but he is very prone to getting injured. The coaching staff has handled him like a f**king porcelain doll rather than put him out there to play his position. He's a NFL player! It's a tough game, if he's so fragile that the coaches are afraid he's going get injured.........again, maybe he should be traded.
RE: RE: Except he did live up to the draft hype  
lax counsel : 9/15/2021 12:48 pm : link
In comment 15367431 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15367418 giantBCP said:


Quote:


He was every bit of the player that we drafted him to be in his rookie season.



Not really. Accumulating 2000 yards on nearly 400 plays isn't nearly as impressive or as effective as the Giants would want you to believe.


I'll also add that the draft hype for a #2 overall pick is to be the cornerstone of a franchise for a decade plus, at an impactful position. Not a single quality season. Right now, it would be a mistake to sign Barkley to a second contract, let along mention of Barkley being a cornerstone for a decade.
The team has never did even close to a good enough job  
Walker Gillette : 9/15/2021 12:49 pm : link
using Saquon as a weapon in the passing game. Shurmur was ok with him in 19 but sine they have completely failed. When you have a guy who strikes fear (your only guy) into the opposing defense you have to make sure you give him opportunities to do just that. Beyond his ability to make things happen, the fear of him doing so will open up opportunities for other players to make plays. If they have to worry about him on screens, out in the flat and running routes they can't overcompensate for the other guys. This is something that needs to happen ASAP. In my opinion it is the biggest indictment against the offensive paly calling and a complete waste of his talents! You want to open up the offense this is the lowest hanging fruit by a mile!
RE: RE: RE: Except he did live up to the draft hype  
Walker Gillette : 9/15/2021 12:52 pm : link
In comment 15367438 lax counsel said:
Quote:
In comment 15367431 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15367418 giantBCP said:


Quote:


He was every bit of the player that we drafted him to be in his rookie season.



Not really. Accumulating 2000 yards on nearly 400 plays isn't nearly as impressive or as effective as the Giants would want you to believe.



I'll also add that the draft hype for a #2 overall pick is to be the cornerstone of a franchise for a decade plus, at an impactful position. Not a single quality season. Right now, it would be a mistake to sign Barkley to a second contract, let along mention of Barkley being a cornerstone for a decade.


While I hate to disagree with anyone using Lax in their handle he was fantastic in 2018, absolutely fantastic!
People keep saying Barkley strikes fear in opponents  
Go Terps : 9/15/2021 12:53 pm : link
No he doesn't. He inspires confidence in defenders to rush the quarterback.
Teams respect Barkley  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/15/2021 1:06 pm : link
but they also know how to play him. He doesn't want to get dirty inside. The defense can dictate where he goes. He wins on superior athletic ability. If that's affected by his injury he's an ordinary, impatient runningback.
RE: If he is active for a game, he needs the ball  
Bill in UT : 9/15/2021 1:09 pm : link
In comment 15367408 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...enough with the kid gloves. We need wins NOW.

Saving him for later in the season makes no sense to me if it means losing games early in the season.


If Barkley doesn't play, do you think Booker, Penny or Brightwell are going to be a game changers?
Pretty sure the book on Barks is to blitz him…  
trueblueinpw : 9/15/2021 1:11 pm : link
If it’s a pass he won’t hold up in pass pro and if it’s a run you’ll hope to meet him in the backfield. He’s not a plus route runner either.
RE: RE: If he is active for a game, he needs the ball  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/15/2021 1:16 pm : link
In comment 15367477 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
In comment 15367408 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


...enough with the kid gloves. We need wins NOW.

Saving him for later in the season makes no sense to me if it means losing games early in the season.



If Barkley doesn't play, do you think Booker, Penny or Brightwell are going to be a game changers?


All I am saying is if he is active for the game, feed him the ball.
Lunatics  
allstarjim : 9/15/2021 1:17 pm : link
He's not even in game shape, he was on a pitvh count (a modest one), and he'll be on one again tomorrow night.

Saquon is going to ball out around week 4. Guy had his knee destroyed and put back together. Give it a few games and give it a rest.

And yes, 2000 yards from a RB is outstanding.
RE: The man hasn't  
UberAlias : 9/15/2021 1:18 pm : link
In comment 15367390 Beer Man said:
Quote:
Played in a game in over a year and missed all of the preseason. Lets give him some time to get his football legs back and to get back into the swing of things.
If he's not healthy enough to catch some screens and passes out of the backfield, then he shouldn't have been out there. They should have rested him for WFT instead of asking him to play two games in five days.
RE: Lunatics  
UberAlias : 9/15/2021 1:21 pm : link
In comment 15367490 allstarjim said:
Quote:
He's not even in game shape, he was on a pitvh count (a modest one), and he'll be on one again tomorrow night.

Saquon is going to ball out around week 4. Guy had his knee destroyed and put back together. Give it a few games and give it a rest.

And yes, 2000 yards from a RB is outstanding.
Ok, then he should not have been out there and asked to play twice in 5 days. And a guy can still be on a pitch count (which the coach outright denied, btw) --that doesn't stop you from making a point to get him the ball in space. Catching a screen or dump off is a lot less on the body than asking him to run unto a pile of 300+ lb men.
Barkley on 2 games in 5 days  
crick n NC : 9/15/2021 1:26 pm : link
"I don't think the schedule is ideal for coming back off a major knee injury to have two games back-to-back, but that's what it is," Barkley said today. "That's what's in front of me and that's the challenge I have to face. To the question of my workload and how much can I handle, it's easier for me to stay up here and say, 'I don't know, just listen to the coaches.' When you're in the game and your adrenaline's going and you start getting a rhythm and you start feeling yourself again, that can go from less reps or more reps, I don't know, to be honest. I'm not in that decision, I don't make that decision, I'm just playing my role by showing up on Thursday and the plays that I do get, try to help my team to the best of my capability."


Barkley - ( New Window )
So he's healthy enough to run into a pile of 300+ lb men 10 times  
UberAlias : 9/15/2021 1:27 pm : link
But calling a screen of dumping off to him in space where he has a chance to do something is too much? This post is not about limiting his use. It's about using him in intelligent ways. We could have asked Brightwell to run into a pile, with same results.
RE: So he's healthy enough to run into a pile of 300+ lb men 10 times  
ColHowPepper : 9/15/2021 1:54 pm : link
In comment 15367506 UberAlias said:
Quote:
But calling a screen of dumping off to him in space where he has a chance to do something is too much? This post is not about limiting his use. It's about using him in intelligent ways. We could have asked Brightwell to run into a pile, with same results.
Your thread and this comment what I and others have said, over and over. To run SB between the tackles over and over, Garrett in his head has to be thinking he has Dallas' OL of the 2010s and Ezekial as the RB. Played into Denver's hands, no change of pace, no misdirection.
RE: Except he did live up to the draft hype  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2021 1:58 pm : link
In comment 15367418 giantBCP said:
Quote:
He was every bit of the player that we drafted him to be in his rookie season.

He also lived up to the concerns:

RBs get hurt.
RE: People keep saying Barkley strikes fear in opponents  
Walker Gillette : 9/15/2021 1:59 pm : link
In comment 15367450 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No he doesn't. He inspires confidence in defenders to rush the quarterback.


Really Terps enough already. You portray yourself like someone that knows what he's talking about but then you say things like this. If you want to be part of the discussion and get your point across you would be taken a lot more seriously if you didn't just spout off negative all the time and talk in these absolutes. I know a bunch of people that read this site and they all just find you as am annoyance, even the ones that don't like Gettleman and Jones and think the Barkley pick was unwise.
 
christian : 9/15/2021 2:18 pm : link
I don’t want Barkley taking touches in the passing game away from the receivers. If there’s a guy to swing it out to, it’s Toney.
RE: RE: People keep saying Barkley strikes fear in opponents  
Go Terps : 9/15/2021 2:25 pm : link
In comment 15367574 Walker Gillette said:
Quote:
In comment 15367450 Go Terps said:


Quote:


No he doesn't. He inspires confidence in defenders to rush the quarterback.



Really Terps enough already. You portray yourself like someone that knows what he's talking about but then you say things like this. If you want to be part of the discussion and get your point across you would be taken a lot more seriously if you didn't just spout off negative all the time and talk in these absolutes. I know a bunch of people that read this site and they all just find you as am annoyance, even the ones that don't like Gettleman and Jones and think the Barkley pick was unwise.


That breaks my heart.
RE: RE: RE: People keep saying Barkley strikes fear in opponents  
UberAlias : 9/15/2021 2:34 pm : link
In comment 15367602 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15367574 Walker Gillette said:


Quote:


In comment 15367450 Go Terps said:


Quote:


No he doesn't. He inspires confidence in defenders to rush the quarterback.



Really Terps enough already. You portray yourself like someone that knows what he's talking about but then you say things like this. If you want to be part of the discussion and get your point across you would be taken a lot more seriously if you didn't just spout off negative all the time and talk in these absolutes. I know a bunch of people that read this site and they all just find you as am annoyance, even the ones that don't like Gettleman and Jones and think the Barkley pick was unwise.



That breaks my heart.
They manufactures 2 plays for Toney and he lost yards. We have no idea what he can do yet. And it doesn’t have to take away throws tio WRs. It’s how you get a weapon like Barkley involved when unable to open up holes in run game. It seems many of you have forgotten what Barkley can do, when used properly.
Sorry that was reply to wrong post  
UberAlias : 9/15/2021 2:35 pm : link
Was in response to Christian, not Terps
Barkley  
WillVAB : 9/15/2021 2:46 pm : link
Was terrible even when he had a few opportunities to make plays last week.

Tired of the “get him the ball in space” mantra. You can say that for 100 other guys around the league. Bottom line either be what you were drafted to be or get out of the way and let another back play who at least won’t be a liability.
I am puzzled by how little they used Barkley as a receiver.  
81_Great_Dane : 9/15/2021 2:57 pm : link
I get that there are only so many targets to go around, and Barkley is their only home run hitter at RB, but to me it seems obvious that he needs to be targeted more. if for no other reason than it will probably cut down on wear-and-tear on his body.

If the book on Barkley is to blitz him, because he's not great in pass-pro and it often results in TFL, then the coaches need to put him in better positions to succeed.
 
christian : 9/15/2021 3:00 pm : link
I can take it or leave it with Barkley, but the Giants need to run the ball better. Whether that’s Barkley or someone else.

The Giants system is built on play action, and I get the sense no one in the secondary is really all that concerned if the ball gets handed off.
Garrett has no idea how to use Barkley  
Giants in 07 : 9/15/2021 3:02 pm : link
It's clear as day.
RE: the problem with giving him some time is at the expense of  
UConn4523 : 9/15/2021 3:08 pm : link
In comment 15367395 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
getting a win. IMO Saquon should be on the PUP list and continue rehab until he is really ready with his cuts on a dime. If he can't cut the way he did in year one, he really is no helping us until he can do that again.


Couldn't disagree more. He showed he isn't afraid to cut on that knee, probably the biggest and most important takeaway when watching him on Sunday. He also took some shots and was fine.

This falls squarely on Garrett for not putting Barkley in more positions to exploit weaknesses in the opposing defense. Where is the motion? Where are the screens? Why isn't he he ever lining up at WR?

Put Garrett on PUP and let Kitchens go to work.
i saw a timid Barkley on Sunday afraid to bounce many of those inside  
MartyNJ1969 : 9/15/2021 3:17 pm : link
runs outside for concern of the knee. He is not planting like he used to which was like Barry sandersesque which made him different and explosive from the other RB's.
I agree that he should have been more of a weapon in the passing game  
Rudy5757 : 9/15/2021 3:50 pm : link
but I dont think giving a guy coming off injury a huge workload is the answer either. We have other backs on the roster for a reason, SB needs time to get back to the player he can be. Booker to me was the more disappointing player. yes he had a few blocks but he brings nothing to the table. I cant see how we couldnt sign a solid backup RB. Booker is slow and plodding.
Reading the posts about Barkley  
joe48 : 9/15/2021 4:00 pm : link
Drafted too high for a guy who cannot run behind this OL. He is not a possession back that runs between tackles. Garrett does not know how to utilize him. Too injury prone.
Do not resign to a new contract.
he doesnt have great hands  
hitdog42 : 9/15/2021 4:01 pm : link
he doesnt run great routes
they dont call great plays for him to run
jones doesnt throw a great short ball too him

they never really had the ball because the defense could not get off the field.
RE: Would you even sign SB to an extension?  
BigBlueinDE : 9/15/2021 4:02 pm : link
In comment 15367402 Essex said:
Quote:
I know I wouldn't, even if he had a nice (1,000 yard rushing 500 receiving) season. The injury by itself would make me wary in tying any significant guaranteed money his way. He already by being the second pick is highly paid for his position (unlike other rookies) and the mere thought of compounding the error by tying up money in him would strike me as a bad decision,


Not a chance.
Have to get him in space  
Giants73 : 9/15/2021 9:29 pm : link
Wouldn’t every player be better if they get them in space? This is the number 2 pick in the draft, gold jacket guy. He needs to be able to run wherever the hole is. McCaffery, Cook, Kamara, Chubb, all seem to have no problems breaking plays up the middle. Bottom line defense gets paid too, teams line up to stop your best player. What makes a superstar is they excel even when the other team try’s to take them out of the game. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. Too soft for that big of a frame.
RE: Have to get him in space  
PatersonPlank : 9/16/2021 12:53 am : link
In comment 15368056 Giants73 said:
Quote:
Wouldn’t every player be better if they get them in space? This is the number 2 pick in the draft, gold jacket guy. He needs to be able to run wherever the hole is. McCaffery, Cook, Kamara, Chubb, all seem to have no problems breaking plays up the middle. Bottom line defense gets paid too, teams line up to stop your best player. What makes a superstar is they excel even when the other team try’s to take them out of the game. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. Too soft for that big of a frame.


He did just fine his rookie year. Hurt most of year 2 (high ankle) and all of year 3. Give him a game or two tp shake off the rust. He is the one guy we have who has shown he can excel in the NFL. Also he was hitting the pile pretty good in the Broncos game with no blocking, even the announcers mentioned it. I remember one run he got hit at the LOS and pushed it 5 yards. I don't buy this soft crap.
RE: People keep saying Barkley strikes fear in opponents  
DannyDimes : 9/16/2021 8:06 am : link
In comment 15367450 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No he doesn't. He inspires confidence in defenders to rush the quarterback.


LOL watch football much...
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