“When he does – and I don’t think it’s an if, it’s a when,” Dilfer said about the turnover problem. “When he does, and as they get more talented up front, they gotta get better up front. When those things happen, I think this is probably a next year thing to be honest with you. You’ll see flashes of it this year. But when he does, he’s going to be one of the better players in the NFL.
I'll have what he's having!
but at some point, you have to win. you have to outplay the teddy bridgewaters at home in your season opener.
the older i get, the more patience i have for players. the light can still come on for him - he's 24 years old. but i want to see more eli and less matt ryan. take control. even if you come up short, play winning football.
i would love to see the guy we saw in his debut. 18 points down! can you imagine that now? instead it's almost like he's afraid to make a mistake. he's not playing football, he's thinking football. he needs to get back to playing, and soon.
This, of course, would mean Garrett has to dramatically modify his offense. Frankly, I think Fred Kitchens could do this much better. Making it work with Jones is MUCH, MUCH better for the team going forward, then having to start all over again from scratch.
Don't look at stats.
Eye test.
We lost that game because Bridgewater was a much better QB.
Right now, Daniel Jones is not as good as Teddy Bridgewater.
That, is a fact.
That is a big problem.
For the here and now the Giants simply need to do absolutely anything it takes to try to turn back the clock and get him playing the way he did in 2019. Even if it means literally going back to plays more similar to that year. It's hard to believe that for a full year the majority consensus was behind Jones. Physically nothing has changed since then and the turnovers have actually gone down. Garrett owns the poor results for the offense.
I guess its good he changed his mind though.
For the here and now the Giants simply need to do absolutely anything it takes to try to turn back the clock and get him playing the way he did in 2019. Even if it means literally going back to plays more similar to that year. It's hard to believe that for a full year the majority consensus was behind Jones. Physically nothing has changed since then and the turnovers have actually gone down. Garrett owns the poor results for the offense.
Tannehill's "first act" was better than Jones, despite what people seem to be remembering about him.
Don't look at stats.
Eye test.
We lost that game because Bridgewater was a much better QB.
Right now, Daniel Jones is not as good as Teddy Bridgewater.
That, is a fact.
That is a big problem.
That is NOT a fact. That isn't even close to true. Go back and look at the game. Bridgewater would never have completed 40% of his passes if he and Jones switched teams and i think Jones would have beaten the Gmen if were the QB for the Broncos. We missed a TON of chances tackling Bridgewater. We missed a ton of tackles elsewhere. We didn't get "free" or easy rushes on Bridgewater like the Broncos got on Jones. Our run blocking was poor..
This whole idea that Bridgewater was better than Jones is only true via the Broncos played better than the Giants. Have the QB's Switch teams and the same result happens. No way Bridgewater escapes the rush for us. With no running game he isn't dinking and dunking in our offense down the field. Jones on the other hand, in Shurmurs offense would make plays against our defense and with our poor tackling from that game we probably lose by even more.
What’s the point
In a playoff game, teams clamp down on the few things a qb does well and makes them beat u with won’t they do t do well
Sorta like what has slowed down a Lamar jackson type in playoffs ( he may be actually improving in that aspect though)
Basically what people are saying is if jones has a good oline and real good weapons, he can be pretty good
Big deal. So can 1/2 or more the nfl qbs
I want a qb who can actually make his players better. Jones will probably never do that
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I might be wrong.
Don't look at stats.
Eye test.
We lost that game because Bridgewater was a much better QB.
Right now, Daniel Jones is not as good as Teddy Bridgewater.
That, is a fact.
That is a big problem.
That is NOT a fact. That isn't even close to true. Go back and look at the game. Bridgewater would never have completed 40% of his passes if he and Jones switched teams and i think Jones would have beaten the Gmen if were the QB for the Broncos. We missed a TON of chances tackling Bridgewater. We missed a ton of tackles elsewhere. We didn't get "free" or easy rushes on Bridgewater like the Broncos got on Jones. Our run blocking was poor..
This whole idea that Bridgewater was better than Jones is only true via the Broncos played better than the Giants. Have the QB's Switch teams and the same result happens. No way Bridgewater escapes the rush for us. With no running game he isn't dinking and dunking in our offense down the field. Jones on the other hand, in Shurmurs offense would make plays against our defense and with our poor tackling from that game we probably lose by even more.
Every game I wait for Jones to be the "GUY".
The team is banged up and the QB elevates his game and wins a game we should have lost.
Or.
It is late in the game and we have still have a chance to win despite mistakes. With a couple of perfect passes Jones could seize victory form defeat...
I continue to wait.
I thought that was supposed to be Judge's forte
For the here and now the Giants simply need to do absolutely anything it takes to try to turn back the clock and get him playing the way he did in 2019. Even if it means literally going back to plays more similar to that year. It's hard to believe that for a full year the majority consensus was behind Jones. Physically nothing has changed since then and the turnovers have actually gone down. Garrett owns the poor results for the offense.
What do you mean it's hard to believe the majority consensus was behind Jones?
You can't commit to a QB who is a one read QB. It will get exposed in the playoffs.
If he's singled up - let it rip
If he's doubled - look for Shep or EE
You know what my eyes told me?
IN denver you have an OC who EMPHASIZES the strengths of the QB, remember we saw that at one point too...same OC maybe? TB had nice easy throws to make and he made them. he often times had 1 or 2 reads to make and deliver. He is a savy vet who knew where to go with the ball.
IN NY, you have an OC who runs an old school style of play with ZERO creativity, zero ability to get guys open, and zero design to the skillset of the player.
Jones has talent, he is a duel threat and is tough as they come, but there is no way you can sit here and tell me our OC the last 2 years has done anything to cater to his strengths. He is a mover, roll him out, give him the option to run and pass. He isnt just a sit back there and pick your defense apart type of qb, gett him on the edge. Allow him to use his legs. Allow playactions to scheme guys open for him.
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I'm pretty confident in a good system Jones would have a second act better than Tannehill has. The previous Denver regime was high on Jones and with Shurmur now there, if Jones were to move on that's a situation/supporting cast I think he'd really thrive in.
For the here and now the Giants simply need to do absolutely anything it takes to try to turn back the clock and get him playing the way he did in 2019. Even if it means literally going back to plays more similar to that year. It's hard to believe that for a full year the majority consensus was behind Jones. Physically nothing has changed since then and the turnovers have actually gone down. Garrett owns the poor results for the offense.
What do you mean it's hard to believe the majority consensus was behind Jones?
Anecdotally I recall a pretty high % of the fanbase being optimistic about jones going into last year.
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In comment 15367442 Eric on Li said:
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I'm pretty confident in a good system Jones would have a second act better than Tannehill has. The previous Denver regime was high on Jones and with Shurmur now there, if Jones were to move on that's a situation/supporting cast I think he'd really thrive in.
For the here and now the Giants simply need to do absolutely anything it takes to try to turn back the clock and get him playing the way he did in 2019. Even if it means literally going back to plays more similar to that year. It's hard to believe that for a full year the majority consensus was behind Jones. Physically nothing has changed since then and the turnovers have actually gone down. Garrett owns the poor results for the offense.
What do you mean it's hard to believe the majority consensus was behind Jones?
Anecdotally I recall a pretty high % of the fanbase being optimistic about jones going into last year.
I was one of these. I thought Jones was looking very good. My concerns grew last season. I'm still open to him being the solution, but I see a lot of excuse making and not tangible analysis that would change my mind.
It's worked out great.
but at some point, you have to win. you have to outplay the teddy bridgewaters at home in your season opener.
the older i get, the more patience i have for players. the light can still come on for him - he's 24 years old. but i want to see more eli and less matt ryan. take control. even if you come up short, play winning football.
i would love to see the guy we saw in his debut. 18 points down! can you imagine that now? instead it's almost like he's afraid to make a mistake. he's not playing football, he's thinking football. he needs to get back to playing, and soon.
Less Matt Ryan? Guy has a SB ring if his coach isn't a moron.
That's actually kind of good point as it pertains to this. DJ is being hamstrung by the playcalling and the defense just letting people march down the field for 8 minute drives isn't helping. Then when we are down two score he starts to play hero ball, pretty similar to Wentz in that respect (althoug not as bad). You see him try to press too hard. Knock that out of him and you'll be left with a very good QB.
He looked about league average to be honest in the opener. People super hyper focus on every mistake he makes and its ridiculous. There are 21 other players out on the field as well. Garret should have been calling play action deep over the middle of the field by the way the safeties were crashing or at least running some read option. The coaches were abysmal Sunday.
Terps your posts about Jones use to infuriate me, but I tip my hat to you. I beginning to believe everything you say about him is correct.
Not sure where that previous consensus is these days though as the DJ conversations don't have them posting...
It's worked out great.
There were warning signs, but also some positive traits as well.
Those positives have barely shown itself since.
Look at that Tampa Bay game his rookie year. It's not the same quarterback.
Don't look at stats.
Eye test.
We lost that game because Bridgewater was a much better QB.
Right now, Daniel Jones is not as good as Teddy Bridgewater.
That, is a fact.
That is a big problem.
Bridgewater may be limited, but one thing he has always had, is poise, even going back to his Louisville days. He doesn't get flustered.
But if is gonna continue to be pretty good in spots and average at best in other spots plus untimely turnovers way too often, what’s the point?
In that case, try to draft someone good and if not , try your own reclamation project and draft well
Don’t want to blow our draft capital for another qb if talent isn’t there
We are becoming the jets
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There were warning signs in Jones's rookie season. Most opted to ignore them because he threw five TDs against Washington in a meaningless game.
It's worked out great.
There were warning signs, but also some positive traits as well.
Those positives have barely shown itself since.
Look at that Tampa Bay game his rookie year. It's not the same quarterback.
It is the same quarterback - the difference is everyone has film on him now.
My problem is he has no run game, a conservative OC, a poor offensive line and his weapons can’t stay healthy enough for him to get any kind of consistency with them. I firmly believe that if Jones was on one of the many other teams in the NFL who run the ball well, have a solid O-line and an innovative OC that he would be an ascending QB and would look a lot different.
The Giants need to do better for Jones to succeed.
It's worked out great.
I know you like to bury Jones, but you are usually pretty fair. I'd like your opinion of what the rest of the team played like compared to Denver?
In what aspect did we outperform Denver?
Our running game? Our passing game? Our Defense? Our specials?
Is it at all possible that Daniel Jones is just put in a position to fail since last year?
Does Jones need to be perfect to win?
Are the players around him excelling in spite of him?
Should he excel regardless of poor play around him?
Is he the reason other players are playing poor?
Not making excuses. Asking honest questions
This syncs up with my thinking that Jones is on a two year showcase, not one. And that's because Mara is going to give Jones EVERY chance to succeed. He's not giving up on Jones after three years. Which could set this franchise back another four years if Jones is not the answer after 2022.
This has potential disaster written all over it.
I'm at the point that even if Jones has a decent year in '21, there is just as much of a chance it's an outlier and not a sign of things to come...
THAT MATTERS!
Jones is battling for his career, we don't need to speculate, we will know everything we need to know in a few weeks unless we want to make excuses forever.
Not me.
I think Jones’ detractors here who watch every one of his games and have concluded he ll never be any good, are a more valid reading of Jones’ ability.
I normally hate these type of snarky posts, but I couldn’t help myself. I am a big fan of Jones, I m one of those arm chair viewers that see the potential of what he can be.
Nice to read someone with some actual expertise in the field, agrees with me.
You know what my eyes told me?
IN denver you have an OC who EMPHASIZES the strengths of the QB, remember we saw that at one point too...same OC maybe? TB had nice easy throws to make and he made them. he often times had 1 or 2 reads to make and deliver. He is a savy vet who knew where to go with the ball.
IN NY, you have an OC who runs an old school style of play with ZERO creativity, zero ability to get guys open, and zero design to the skillset of the player.
Jones has talent, he is a duel threat and is tough as they come, but there is no way you can sit here and tell me our OC the last 2 years has done anything to cater to his strengths. He is a mover, roll him out, give him the option to run and pass. He isnt just a sit back there and pick your defense apart type of qb, gett him on the edge. Allow him to use his legs. Allow playactions to scheme guys open for him.
I saw that.
And yet Garrett's offense is seemingly predicated on sticks. When it's 4th and 6 and the game is essentially on the line he runs all curls. Like a 5 year old clutching for his teddy bear.
That's what the league has film on and knows how to stop. And it's actually something they've known how to stop since 2012 when he got demoted from play calling the first time.
https://twitter.com/GiantsAlliance/status/1416392487401361414?s=20 - ( New Window )
Quote:
I might be wrong.
Don't look at stats.
Eye test.
We lost that game because Bridgewater was a much better QB.
Right now, Daniel Jones is not as good as Teddy Bridgewater.
That, is a fact.
That is a big problem.
Bridgewater may be limited, but one thing he has always had, is poise, even going back to his Louisville days. He doesn't get flustered.
Quote:
LOL bridgewater better than jones? What eye test tells you that?!
You know what my eyes told me?
IN denver you have an OC who EMPHASIZES the strengths of the QB, remember we saw that at one point too...same OC maybe? TB had nice easy throws to make and he made them. he often times had 1 or 2 reads to make and deliver. He is a savy vet who knew where to go with the ball.
IN NY, you have an OC who runs an old school style of play with ZERO creativity, zero ability to get guys open, and zero design to the skillset of the player.
Jones has talent, he is a duel threat and is tough as they come, but there is no way you can sit here and tell me our OC the last 2 years has done anything to cater to his strengths. He is a mover, roll him out, give him the option to run and pass. He isnt just a sit back there and pick your defense apart type of qb, gett him on the edge. Allow him to use his legs. Allow playactions to scheme guys open for him.
Bridgewater did not put the ball on the ground in the red zone when his team desperately needed a score.
I saw that.
Right, and Melvin Gordon is better than Barkley, and Von Miller is better than anyone on our Defense, and Shurmer is a better OC than Garrett, and....
And yet Garrett's offense is seemingly predicated on sticks. When it's 4th and 6 and the game is essentially on the line he runs all curls. Like a 5 year old clutching for his teddy bear.
That's what the league has film on and knows how to stop. And it's actually something they've known how to stop since 2012 when he got demoted from play calling the first time. https://twitter.com/GiantsAlliance/status/1416392487401361414?s=20 - ( New Window )
We need a hero. - ( New Window )
7 points. come on.
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There were warning signs in Jones's rookie season. Most opted to ignore them because he threw five TDs against Washington in a meaningless game.
It's worked out great.
I know you like to bury Jones, but you are usually pretty fair. I'd like your opinion of what the rest of the team played like compared to Denver?
In what aspect did we outperform Denver?
Our running game? Our passing game? Our Defense? Our specials?
Is it at all possible that Daniel Jones is just put in a position to fail since last year?
Does Jones need to be perfect to win?
Are the players around him excelling in spite of him?
Should he excel regardless of poor play around him?
Is he the reason other players are playing poor?
Not making excuses. Asking honest questions
Many players are playing poorly. I won't argue there. This roster is a disaster.
But Jones is one of those players playing poorly, and he is very much part of the disaster. He sets himself up to fail by being slow to see anything past his first read, by having no pocket presence, by having slow mechanics, and by not being careful with the football.
He's a very poor starting NFL quarterback. The signs were there his rookie year, they manifested themselves clearly during his horrendous second season, and we saw more of the same against Denver.
I hope you didn't buy a Jones jersey. If you did it's soon going to be stashed next to your Odell Beckham and Eli Apple jerseys.
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In comment 15367475 BleedBlue said:
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LOL bridgewater better than jones? What eye test tells you that?!
You know what my eyes told me?
IN denver you have an OC who EMPHASIZES the strengths of the QB, remember we saw that at one point too...same OC maybe? TB had nice easy throws to make and he made them. he often times had 1 or 2 reads to make and deliver. He is a savy vet who knew where to go with the ball.
IN NY, you have an OC who runs an old school style of play with ZERO creativity, zero ability to get guys open, and zero design to the skillset of the player.
Jones has talent, he is a duel threat and is tough as they come, but there is no way you can sit here and tell me our OC the last 2 years has done anything to cater to his strengths. He is a mover, roll him out, give him the option to run and pass. He isnt just a sit back there and pick your defense apart type of qb, gett him on the edge. Allow him to use his legs. Allow playactions to scheme guys open for him.
Bridgewater did not put the ball on the ground in the red zone when his team desperately needed a score.
I saw that.
Right, and Melvin Gordon is better than Barkley, and Von Miller is better than anyone on our Defense, and Shurmer is a better OC than Garrett, and....
As are his critics relentless. Not really any difference in the two camps. I guess it depends on whose Ox is getting gored.
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The tide of excuses for Jones is endless.
As are his critics relentless. Not really any difference in the two camps. I guess it depends on whose Ox is getting gored.
There is a difference. One side is right and the other never knew what they were talking about.
If I know it, damn well D knows it
Just telegraphing stuff
Saquon is either overrated, not being used correctly, or probably a bit of both
KG is a guy u get going early and get him into the groove
They should probably give kitchens a shot as OC some point this yr
JG isn’t the problem but pretty sure he isn’t the solution either
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In comment 15367482 Go Terps said:
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There were warning signs in Jones's rookie season. Most opted to ignore them because he threw five TDs against Washington in a meaningless game.
It's worked out great.
I know you like to bury Jones, but you are usually pretty fair. I'd like your opinion of what the rest of the team played like compared to Denver?
In what aspect did we outperform Denver?
Our running game? Our passing game? Our Defense? Our specials?
Is it at all possible that Daniel Jones is just put in a position to fail since last year?
Does Jones need to be perfect to win?
Are the players around him excelling in spite of him?
Should he excel regardless of poor play around him?
Is he the reason other players are playing poor?
Not making excuses. Asking honest questions
Many players are playing poorly. I won't argue there. This roster is a disaster.
But Jones is one of those players playing poorly, and he is very much part of the disaster. He sets himself up to fail by being slow to see anything past his first read, by having no pocket presence, by having slow mechanics, and by not being careful with the football.
He's a very poor starting NFL quarterback. The signs were there his rookie year, they manifested themselves clearly during his horrendous second season, and we saw more of the same against Denver.
I hope you didn't buy a Jones jersey. If you did it's soon going to be stashed next to your Odell Beckham and Eli Apple jerseys.
I haven't spent money on this team since Coughlin got canned.
I just don't buy into the "coaches have film" bullshit you talk about.
It isn't just Jones they has shit the bed since his rookie year. The decline of Slayton and Hernandez really stand out. Barkley and Tate both had a pretty big 2019. None of our other running backs or WRs are putting up big games.
That can't be because of Jones and film.
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The tide of excuses for Jones is endless.
As are his critics relentless. Not really any difference in the two camps. I guess it depends on whose Ox is getting gored.
I can be anything, I can't be that, that behavior is destroying the world.
Ok. I appreciate your response. Now I just need to figure out why every other player other than Shep and Logan Ryan were shitty on Sunday. Progress
I keep hearing this about DJ - he needs a better line - better receivers - better O-co - better TE... wait until Barkley gets back... on and on and on about how all DJ needs is better players and coaches.
But this ignores all kinds of problems that are squarely with Jones. He locks on to receivers and forces throws and he's done this since he was a Duke. (I point this out too, when he was at Duke the excuse for Jones was always the players around him). His pre and post snap processing are not where they should be after two years in the NFL. What about that fumble against Denver? Would an All Pro line have made any difference there?
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Part of the reason is that Jones is a shitty quarterback. It's not the whole reason, but it's part of it.
Ok. I appreciate your response. Now I just need to figure out why every other player other than Shep and Logan Ryan were shitty on Sunday. Progress
Because it's a roster of poor players put together by an incompetent GM. And remember, that same incompetent GM saw fit to pick Jones #6 overall almost entirely on the basis of him looking and feeling like Eli Manning.
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I might be wrong.
Don't look at stats.
Eye test.
We lost that game because Bridgewater was a much better QB.
Right now, Daniel Jones is not as good as Teddy Bridgewater.
That, is a fact.
That is a big problem.
That is NOT a fact. That isn't even close to true. Go back and look at the game. Bridgewater would never have completed 40% of his passes if he and Jones switched teams and i think Jones would have beaten the Gmen if were the QB for the Broncos. We missed a TON of chances tackling Bridgewater. We missed a ton of tackles elsewhere. We didn't get "free" or easy rushes on Bridgewater like the Broncos got on Jones. Our run blocking was poor..
This whole idea that Bridgewater was better than Jones is only true via the Broncos played better than the Giants. Have the QB's Switch teams and the same result happens. No way Bridgewater escapes the rush for us. With no running game he isn't dinking and dunking in our offense down the field. Jones on the other hand, in Shurmurs offense would make plays against our defense and with our poor tackling from that game we probably lose by even more.
I watched the entire game, and I've watched Jones for 3 years. I'd trade him for Teddy Bridgewater tomorrow...but Denver wouldn't.
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In comment 15367559 Go Terps said:
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Part of the reason is that Jones is a shitty quarterback. It's not the whole reason, but it's part of it.
Ok. I appreciate your response. Now I just need to figure out why every other player other than Shep and Logan Ryan were shitty on Sunday. Progress
Because it's a roster of poor players put together by an incompetent GM. And remember, that same incompetent GM saw fit to pick Jones #6 overall almost entirely on the basis of him looking and feeling like Eli Manning.
I don't entirely disagree. But why give a pass to Judge? It's his job to make this look like an NFL team on Sundays. He failed. You can't tell me there is no talent...well maybe you can...it's just all on special teams, which barely saw the field.
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In comment 15367435 Thegratefulhead said:
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I might be wrong.
Don't look at stats.
Eye test.
We lost that game because Bridgewater was a much better QB.
Right now, Daniel Jones is not as good as Teddy Bridgewater.
That, is a fact.
That is a big problem.
That is NOT a fact. That isn't even close to true. Go back and look at the game. Bridgewater would never have completed 40% of his passes if he and Jones switched teams and i think Jones would have beaten the Gmen if were the QB for the Broncos. We missed a TON of chances tackling Bridgewater. We missed a ton of tackles elsewhere. We didn't get "free" or easy rushes on Bridgewater like the Broncos got on Jones. Our run blocking was poor..
This whole idea that Bridgewater was better than Jones is only true via the Broncos played better than the Giants. Have the QB's Switch teams and the same result happens. No way Bridgewater escapes the rush for us. With no running game he isn't dinking and dunking in our offense down the field. Jones on the other hand, in Shurmurs offense would make plays against our defense and with our poor tackling from that game we probably lose by even more.
I watched the entire game, and I've watched Jones for 3 years. I'd trade him for Teddy Bridgewater tomorrow...but Denver wouldn't.
I can tell you with certainty Denver was going to draft Jones if we didn't. Their FO has changed but not entirely and with Shurmur being there I'm confident they'd be interested if he were on the market.
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In comment 15367559 Go Terps said:
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Part of the reason is that Jones is a shitty quarterback. It's not the whole reason, but it's part of it.
Ok. I appreciate your response. Now I just need to figure out why every other player other than Shep and Logan Ryan were shitty on Sunday. Progress
Because it's a roster of poor players put together by an incompetent GM. And remember, that same incompetent GM saw fit to pick Jones #6 overall almost entirely on the basis of him looking and feeling like Eli Manning.
I agree with most of your takes on Jones, but this is BS. If you gave Andy Reid the weapons we have on offense, this would be a 10 win team, especially with this defense. Jones is mobile enough to be successful behind this line...he needs to roll out more, run more, at least make the defense gameplan for his athleticism.
On Dilfer...I guarantee he liked Winston, Darnold, Rosen, Sanchez, and most other NFL busts in at least one interview. Gotta cover his ass.
I can't believe the Giants are in this situation. Some of us truly feel Jones is not THE GUY. Some of us blame the lack of talent and poor game planning. But none of us know for sure either way. What's obvious is the offense we saw week one was not ready to play an NFL defense.
My own take? Jones seems to be one of these QBs who needs everything to be just right in order to succeed. That has worried me since day one. No matter what happens, I don't think things are going to be just right for the Giants' QB for a while.
There is nothing to support the idea that the previous Denver regime was high on Jones. There were reports that Denver would have taken him, but Peter King was in their draft room, and said Jones's name never came up. Now if people want to ding Peter King (I think he's a solid reporter with good contacts), that's fine, but I'll need to see something more concrete than Dave Gettleman saying Denver would have taken him.
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In comment 15367459 jvm52106 said:
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In comment 15367435 Thegratefulhead said:
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I might be wrong.
Don't look at stats.
Eye test.
We lost that game because Bridgewater was a much better QB.
Right now, Daniel Jones is not as good as Teddy Bridgewater.
That, is a fact.
That is a big problem.
That is NOT a fact. That isn't even close to true. Go back and look at the game. Bridgewater would never have completed 40% of his passes if he and Jones switched teams and i think Jones would have beaten the Gmen if were the QB for the Broncos. We missed a TON of chances tackling Bridgewater. We missed a ton of tackles elsewhere. We didn't get "free" or easy rushes on Bridgewater like the Broncos got on Jones. Our run blocking was poor..
This whole idea that Bridgewater was better than Jones is only true via the Broncos played better than the Giants. Have the QB's Switch teams and the same result happens. No way Bridgewater escapes the rush for us. With no running game he isn't dinking and dunking in our offense down the field. Jones on the other hand, in Shurmurs offense would make plays against our defense and with our poor tackling from that game we probably lose by even more.
I watched the entire game, and I've watched Jones for 3 years. I'd trade him for Teddy Bridgewater tomorrow...but Denver wouldn't.
I can tell you with certainty Denver was going to draft Jones if we didn't. Their FO has changed but not entirely and with Shurmur being there I'm confident they'd be interested if he were on the market.
After Sunday, and especially last year, I'm pretty certain they're happy they didn't get stuck with Jones in 2019. They already have DJ on their roster...he sits behind Teddy. Denver is smart enough to move on from mediocrity.
I watched the entire game, and I've watched Jones for 3 years. I'd trade him for Teddy Bridgewater tomorrow...but Denver wouldn't.
I can tell you with certainty Denver was going to draft Jones if we didn't. Their FO has changed but not entirely and with Shurmur being there I'm confident they'd be interested if he were on the market.
This has been discussed on site before and there is more evidence that Denver wasn't going with Jones, at least not in Rd 1. And they had Lock higher than Jones if they both made it to Rd 2.
And while it really doesn't matter anyway. If you want to post what was the "certainty" go ahead...
I can tell you with certainty Denver was going to draft Jones if we didn't. Their FO has changed but not entirely and with Shurmur being there I'm confident they'd be interested if he were on the market.
Uh, you can't. That's complete BS. Just like the speculation Gettleman tossed out there that he knew for "a fact" other teams would take Jones before the Giants 17th pick.
I feel very comfortable saying Denver had Lock much more highly rates than most teams. And got their man - at the time.
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I can tell you with certainty Denver was going to draft Jones if we didn't. Their FO has changed but not entirely and with Shurmur being there I'm confident they'd be interested if he were on the market.
Uh, you can't. That's complete BS. Just like the speculation Gettleman tossed out there that he knew for "a fact" other teams would take Jones before the Giants 17th pick.
I feel very comfortable saying Denver had Lock much more highly rates than most teams. And got their man - at the time.
I'm not speculating but you are free to believe whatever you want.
I can tell you with certainty Denver was going to draft Jones if we didn't. Their FO has changed but not entirely and with Shurmur being there I'm confident they'd be interested if he were on the market.
I'd like to see how you know that with such certainty? I'm more than willing to accept it is you have a legitimate source, but as I said, Peter King was in the room, and specifically stated that Jones's name never came up.
And while many will pile on King, that's fine, he has his faults, one thing I can't believe he would agree to is to lie about who Denver was looking at. Would he agree not to mention certain things? Absolutely, but that is not the case here. He was very clear, so the only explanation would be that he agreed to lie for Elway, and I do not believe he would do that.
Uh, you can't. That's complete BS. Just like the speculation Gettleman tossed out there that he knew for "a fact" other teams would take Jones before the Giants 17th pick.
I feel very comfortable saying Denver had Lock much more highly rates than most teams. And got their man - at the time.
I'm not speculating but you are free to believe whatever you want.
How is your information not speculative?
Just looking for his definition of great and naming comparable great QB's may help communicate his definition.
I suspect it will be with another team. I think he’d really benefit from a reset. Sit down a year and work out his flaws.
If I’m the Giants, and he’s still struggling this year, I make the call in the offseason to Tampa and see if I can get a 2nd round pick for him.
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In comment 15367461 Go Terps said:
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The tide of excuses for Jones is endless.
As are his critics relentless. Not really any difference in the two camps. I guess it depends on whose Ox is getting gored.
There is a difference. One side is right and the other never knew what they were talking about.
😄. Good one.
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I can tell you with certainty Denver was going to draft Jones if we didn't. Their FO has changed but not entirely and with Shurmur being there I'm confident they'd be interested if he were on the market.
I'd like to see how you know that with such certainty? I'm more than willing to accept it is you have a legitimate source, but as I said, Peter King was in the room, and specifically stated that Jones's name never came up.
And while many will pile on King, that's fine, he has his faults, one thing I can't believe he would agree to is to lie about who Denver was looking at. Would he agree not to mention certain things? Absolutely, but that is not the case here. He was very clear, so the only explanation would be that he agreed to lie for Elway, and I do not believe he would do that.
In addition to the King reports from inside their War Room, this article reports basically the same thoughts from a different source...
Report: Giants were wrong to think Broncos would draft Daniel Jones
Posted by Michael David Smith on April 28, 2019, 4:10 PM EDT
After Giants General Manager Dave Gettleman justified his decision to take Daniel Jones with the sixth overall pick in the draft by saying he knows for a fact two other teams would have taken Jones in the first half of Round 1, a report emerged that the two teams were Washington and Denver. But that may not be the case.
According to Mike Klis of 9 News, the Broncos would not have taken Jones in the first round. In fact, Klis (who is always plugged-in to Broncos General Manager John Elway) tweets that Drew Lock was Denver’s No. 1 quarterback. The Broncos eventually took Lock with the 42nd overall pick, but Denver passed on Lock in the first round.
That doesn’t mean Gettleman is wrong that someone would have taken Jones before the Giants got their next pick at No. 17 overall, but the report is that it definitely wasn’t the Broncos.
If Jones was Gettleman’s top-rated quarterback, taking him at No. 6 was probably smarter than sitting and waiting and hoping he would be there at No. 17. The Giants need a successor to Eli Manning and couldn’t risk missing out on their top choice. But few outside the Giants organization had Jones rated as highly.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/28/report-giants-were-wrong-to-think-broncos-would-draft-daniel-jones/
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The tide of excuses for Jones is endless.
Terps your posts about Jones use to infuriate me, but I tip my hat to you. I beginning to believe everything you say about him is correct.
Yeah, it's like Odell Beckham all over again. Like with him, I bet in two years everyone on the board will act like they always wanted Jones replaced and debates about his potential never happened.
That's what the league has film on and knows how to stop. And it's actually something they've known how to stop since 2012 when he got demoted from play calling the first time. https://twitter.com/GiantsAlliance/status/1416392487401361414?s=20 - ( New Window )
Well then we're screwed, because it sure seems like Garrett ain't going anywhere.
Maybe if we get rolled tomorrow night by a double-digit margin, but even then I imagine they'll focus on the positives and the signs of improvement.
Downfield interceptions are going to happen to any aggressive QB and they're not that different from a punt in terms of field position. Fumbles, however, are backbreakers. You not only surrender a possession, you flip field position. If Jones can't stop fumbling, he can't be an NFL quarterback. He's got a ton of talent but that's a deal-breaker.
The selection of Jones is a classic panic pick by a GM.
And the aftermath of telling the press that Jones was such a hot commodity that DG had to take him at #6, is classic CYA.
If Gettleman picked Jones at 6 because he thought he could be a good NFL quarterback — cool.
Running a draft out of fear of what others might do is the epitome of lame ass management. I hope that didn’t happen.
I don't think he would have been there at 17.
This, of course, would mean Garrett has to dramatically modify his offense. Frankly, I think Fred Kitchens could do this much better. Making it work with Jones is MUCH, MUCH better for the team going forward, then having to start all over again from scratch.
Yes, agreed. Design the offense (or defense) to the talent available. It's what good coaches do.
Also, they lost the game because the DEFENSE SUCKED. Denver had 3 drives with 10 or more plays, 2 of them over 8 minutes long. The final score should been worse. The Giants lucked out on the Ryan fumble recovery near the goal line, and that could have been overturned.
This is the year for that to show through, otherwise the DJ experiment AND the DG experiment should be over.
I posted the info about Denver because this has been gone thru in detail before and keeps coming around in questionable context...
OTOH, on short routes, he locks onto primary targets, doesn't look off the safety, probably because he is concerned with getting the ball out on time. So the obvious answer would be to call more intermediate to deep pass plays, right?
Until you get in the red zone. The RZ is where great QB's make their money, when every pass play is a short pass play. If DJ can't get that figured out, he will never be anything more than a marginal NFL QB.
Also, they lost the game because the DEFENSE SUCKED. Denver had 3 drives with 10 or more plays, 2 of them over 8 minutes long. The final score should been worse. The Giants lucked out on the Ryan fumble recovery near the goal line, and that could have been overturned.
They lost because they played poorly on both sides of the ball. Scoring a single touchdown outside of garbage time isn't going to win you any games either.
And whether you hate or like Jones, I think we can all agree I would like to see Jones with someone other than Garrett. I dont care if our QB was Mahomes, Wilson, Murray, Brady or whoever - they probably would not reach their potential with Garrett as OC.
The people who still like Jones point to a few plays which show he can make big throws on occasion. But the bottom line is, if he's going to make one or two huge boneheaded plays a game, he's going to have throw three or four TDs to make up for it. he's not that productive. What we get instead is labored offense, eventually a great play or two, and just as many boneheaded plays. If the Giants put up 24 vs the Broncos and Jones had 3 TDs we would all feel a lot better. Instead the offense had few great moments, and Jones was unable to distinguish himself.
And whether you hate or like Jones, I think we can all agree I would like to see Jones with someone other than Garrett. I dont care if our QB was Mahomes, Wilson, Murray, Brady or whoever - they probably would not reach their potential with Garrett as OC.
Some had Jones rated as a 2nd or 3rd round talent. Gettleman reached. But that's ok if you have a conviction about a player. We have to say Gettleman did a gutsy thing. He liked a guy and made the pick. The problem is, however, that QB is not good. And he doesn't have the skills you want to see in a top QB pick, like Kyler, like Herbert, like Burrow, like Mahomes, like Allen...
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There were warning signs in Jones's rookie season. Most opted to ignore them because he threw five TDs against Washington in a meaningless game.
It's worked out great.
There were warning signs, but also some positive traits as well.
Those positives have barely shown itself since.
Look at that Tampa Bay game his rookie year. It's not the same quarterback.
I really wonder where that guy is.
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knows A LOT more than any of us here.
Also, they lost the game because the DEFENSE SUCKED. Denver had 3 drives with 10 or more plays, 2 of them over 8 minutes long. The final score should been worse. The Giants lucked out on the Ryan fumble recovery near the goal line, and that could have been overturned.
They lost because they played poorly on both sides of the ball. Scoring a single touchdown outside of garbage time isn't going to win you any games either.
Yes you have to score. But how do score when you don't touch the ball for more than 1 full quarter around half time?
Garrett is a problem, but he isnt the only problem.
Jones is a big problem. I think a different OC could spark this offense a little more, but they would still need a competent OL and they would need Jones to stop turning the ball over to have any chance.
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Uh, you can't. That's complete BS. Just like the speculation Gettleman tossed out there that he knew for "a fact" other teams would take Jones before the Giants 17th pick.
I feel very comfortable saying Denver had Lock much more highly rates than most teams. And got their man - at the time.
I'm not speculating but you are free to believe whatever you want.
How is your information not speculative?
there's not really a way for me to answer that so it's up to you to either believe it or not. ive never claimed to be an asshat but it's not hearsay or speculation.
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In comment 15367659 Victor in CT said:
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knows A LOT more than any of us here.
Also, they lost the game because the DEFENSE SUCKED. Denver had 3 drives with 10 or more plays, 2 of them over 8 minutes long. The final score should been worse. The Giants lucked out on the Ryan fumble recovery near the goal line, and that could have been overturned.
They lost because they played poorly on both sides of the ball. Scoring a single touchdown outside of garbage time isn't going to win you any games either.
Yes you have to score. But how do score when you don't touch the ball for more than 1 full quarter around half time?
Not fumbling in the redzone would have been a good start.
Think of it this way, the Giants defense played an extremely poor game. However, Daniel Jones had the chance to complete that drive with a TD that would have given the Giants a very good chance to win the game.
Daniel Jones COULD have been the hero on Sunday. All of his biggest fans COULD have come out of the game talking about how the defense played like shit but Daniel Jones rallied the Giants to victory with a couple of 2nd half scoring drives.
The implication that life just isn't fair for Daniel Jones because the defense didn't play well is ridiculous. Defenses league-wide play poorly every single week, and the league's best QBs win games in spite of it. Sometimes you're going to need to score nearly every time you touch the ball. Be a goddamn hero for once.
OTOH, on short routes, he locks onto primary targets, doesn't look off the safety, probably because he is concerned with getting the ball out on time. So the obvious answer would be to call more intermediate to deep pass plays, right?
Until you get in the red zone. The RZ is where great QB's make their money, when every pass play is a short pass play. If DJ can't get that figured out, he will never be anything more than a marginal NFL QB.
when multiple players run longer routes the whole defense expands.
when everyone runs short routes the whole defense contracts. That's what makes the RZ more difficult in the first place. more players in less space. Garrett's offense seems to turn every series into the RZ voluntarily. Or at least every 3rd down.
and again Daniel Jones had 13tds and 0 ints in the RZ as a rookie. At Duke he hadn't thrown a RZ int in multiple seasons (see link below for more numbers).
there is a clear difference between the results prior to Garrett and with Garrett. And the fact that year 2 after a full offseason started with many of the same issues, despite an OL that actually played decent and with almost all the weapons healthy seems ominous. If they got here at the same exact point in time this would be a chicken or the egg situation. But in this case the chicken got here first and had what is currently a fairly pessimistic fanbase optimistic. at least until the egg arrived.
Giants Now: Daniel Jones' numbers in red zone - ( New Window )
Not fumbling in the redzone would have been a good start.
Think of it this way, the Giants defense played an extremely poor game. However, Daniel Jones had the chance to complete that drive with a TD that would have given the Giants a very good chance to win the game.
Daniel Jones COULD have been the hero on Sunday. All of his biggest fans COULD have come out of the game talking about how the defense played like shit but Daniel Jones rallied the Giants to victory with a couple of 2nd half scoring drives.
The implication that life just isn't fair for Daniel Jones because the defense didn't play well is ridiculous. Defenses league-wide play poorly every single week, and the league's best QBs win games in spite of it. Sometimes you're going to need to score nearly every time you touch the ball. Be a goddamn hero for once.
There are certainly a handful of plays over the course of a game where a QB has a chance to bail out their team and great QB's make those plays.
But the majority of the game a QB needs to be playing within an effective system.
Had Jones not fumbled and completed that drive with a TD you are right it would have been the type of thing great QBs do. And it's all the more frustrating that he didn't because he was so close. But it wouldn't have changed the fact that the overall offensive system is outdated and ineffective.
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Not fumbling in the redzone would have been a good start.
Think of it this way, the Giants defense played an extremely poor game. However, Daniel Jones had the chance to complete that drive with a TD that would have given the Giants a very good chance to win the game.
Daniel Jones COULD have been the hero on Sunday. All of his biggest fans COULD have come out of the game talking about how the defense played like shit but Daniel Jones rallied the Giants to victory with a couple of 2nd half scoring drives.
The implication that life just isn't fair for Daniel Jones because the defense didn't play well is ridiculous. Defenses league-wide play poorly every single week, and the league's best QBs win games in spite of it. Sometimes you're going to need to score nearly every time you touch the ball. Be a goddamn hero for once.
There are certainly a handful of plays over the course of a game where a QB has a chance to bail out their team and great QB's make those plays.
But the majority of the game a QB needs to be playing within an effective system.
Had Jones not fumbled and completed that drive with a TD you are right it would have been the type of thing great QBs do. And it's all the more frustrating that he didn't because he was so close. But it wouldn't have changed the fact that the overall offensive system is outdated and ineffective.
Believe me, I'm not here to defend Jason Garrett or his ridiculous offense. I never wanted him here in the first place, and he does Jones no favors. The best time to fire him would have been in January. The current best time to fire him is today. The next best time to fire him will be Friday morning.
Nevertheless, whatever system is in place, the QB needs to make quick and correct decisions, and execute the throws far more often than Jones has.
Don't look at stats.
Eye test.
We lost that game because Bridgewater was a much better QB.
Right now, Daniel Jones is not as good as Teddy Bridgewater.
That, is a fact.
That is a big problem.
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I might be wrong.
Don't look at stats.
Eye test.
We lost that game because Bridgewater was a much better QB.
Right now, Daniel Jones is not as good as Teddy Bridgewater.
That, is a fact.
That is a big problem.
I AM using the eye test...I don't see it.
We're all guessing anyway, right?
I can't believe the Giants are in this situation. Some of us truly feel Jones is not THE GUY. Some of us blame the lack of talent and poor game planning. But none of us know for sure either way. What's obvious is the offense we saw week one was not ready to play an NFL defense.
I think DJ needs consistency from our OL. Right now there is none. He has not played with any of the new weapons except for week 1. Garrett stopped calling plays back in 2012. Dallas potent offense had more talent.
My own take? Jones seems to be one of these QBs who needs everything to be just right in order to succeed. That has worried me since day one. No matter what happens, I don't think things are going to be just right for the Giants' QB for a while.
I would add that if there was some consistency up front that would help DJ. Garrett stopped calling plays for Dallas after 2012. Linnehan and Moore have done a good job with opening up their offense. DJ has added weapons but they missed all of training camp so there is a learning curve issue. Giant fans have lost their patience with the losing. So many of the comments on BBI are knee jerk reactions. Gotten toxic.
This, of course, would mean Garrett has to dramatically modify his offense. Frankly, I think Fred Kitchens could do this much better. Making it work with Jones is MUCH, MUCH better for the team going forward, then having to start all over again from scratch.
Just had this exact discussion with a co-worker yesterday. When Judge was hired he said that was his coaching philosophy. Garrett's insistence on emphasizing things he doesn't excel at is mind boggling. Let him sling.
How is your information not speculative?
there's not really a way for me to answer that so it's up to you to either believe it or not. ive never claimed to be an asshat but it's not hearsay or speculation.
Why?
Elway has a pattern when drafting QBs in the upper rounds. He has favored big, strong armed prospects. Brock Osweiler, Paxton Lynch, Drew Lock. Jones did not fit that profile. Lock did.
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How is your information not speculative?
there's not really a way for me to answer that so it's up to you to either believe it or not. ive never claimed to be an asshat but it's not hearsay or speculation.
Why?
Elway has a pattern when drafting QBs in the upper rounds. He has favored big, strong armed prospects. Brock Osweiler, Paxton Lynch, Drew Lock. Jones did not fit that profile. Lock did.
you can believe in whatever patterns you see. all i can tell you is that in this rarest of cases i happen to know for a fact that you are not correct and im not just guessing at that based on a pattern or a media report.
We want a winner, not a saint. If he's a great kid give him a job on the sidelines or in the front office. We Giants fans deserve an elite talent at QB to root for.
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and again Daniel Jones had 13tds and 0 ints in the RZ as a rookie. At Duke he hadn't thrown a RZ int in multiple seasons (see link below for more numbers).
And the immortal Jacoby Brissett threw 15 TD’s and 0 picks that year. I am not going to defend Garrett, I hated the hiring and have been very vocal here about how he is a big part of the problem. That said, a number of QB’s have had a lot of success under his offenses, so maybe he isn’t the only problem.
you are right. He seems like a decent kid. There was that one play in the first Q when the Broncos went offsides and he hit Slayton deep on the sidelines in a *free shot*. It was a beauty. Smart and well executed. I thought wow. ok... give us this, 90% of the time and you are the man. But we get it 10% of the time, and it's not enough.
Why?
Elway has a pattern when drafting QBs in the upper rounds. He has favored big, strong armed prospects. Brock Osweiler, Paxton Lynch, Drew Lock. Jones did not fit that profile. Lock did.
you can believe in whatever patterns you see. all i can tell you is that in this rarest of cases i happen to know for a fact that you are not correct and im not just guessing at that based on a pattern or a media report.
Whatever you say. I'm not asking for whatever source you have, I'm curious how you know...
Well it certainly appears you, Peter King, John Elway, and Mike Klis absolutely don't have the same set of facts as Eric on LI & Dave Gettleman.
And as mentioned, Daniel Jones is a NY Giant no matter who is calling bullshit...
Is DJ staring at one WR, or is his head turned in one direction?
There is a huge difference.
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In comment 15367666 Section331 said:
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and again Daniel Jones had 13tds and 0 ints in the RZ as a rookie. At Duke he hadn't thrown a RZ int in multiple seasons (see link below for more numbers).
And the immortal Jacoby Brissett threw 15 TD’s and 0 picks that year. I am not going to defend Garrett, I hated the hiring and have been very vocal here about how he is a big part of the problem. That said, a number of QB’s have had a lot of success under his offenses, so maybe he isn’t the only problem.
he's not the only but when an entire offense of players regresses you have to look to the common link, no? Was Slayton not previously a promising WR? Engram's production last year was laughable compared to previous seasons (which were already considered disappointing).
Jones 100% needs to do better too but asking any individual player (even a QB) to make a difference in this offense is like thinking any individual was going to make James Bettcher's defense all of a sudden work.
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In comment 15367730 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 15367666 Section331 said:
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and again Daniel Jones had 13tds and 0 ints in the RZ as a rookie. At Duke he hadn't thrown a RZ int in multiple seasons (see link below for more numbers).
And the immortal Jacoby Brissett threw 15 TD’s and 0 picks that year. I am not going to defend Garrett, I hated the hiring and have been very vocal here about how he is a big part of the problem. That said, a number of QB’s have had a lot of success under his offenses, so maybe he isn’t the only problem.
he's not the only but when an entire offense of players regresses you have to look to the common link, no? Was Slayton not previously a promising WR? Engram's production last year was laughable compared to previous seasons (which were already considered disappointing).
Jones 100% needs to do better too but asking any individual player (even a QB) to make a difference in this offense is like thinking any individual was going to make James Bettcher's defense all of a sudden work.
The QB touches the ball on every play. You can see the talent even under the worst circumstances. The top 10 QBs would show more than Jones has, imo. But now we have more around him, and the protection was good last week. And still mistakes and just 7 points. I can't believe you look at Jones in year three and see a guy as good as Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, Allen, Brady, Stafford, Herbert, Lamar, Prescott, or Murray. He's not a baller like those guys.
It was discussed a month BEFORE the draft that the Broncos were exploring getting out of the 10th spot in that 2019 draft. So the trade was not some sort of panic move by Elway because Jones was suddenly gone at #6.
I stand firm - any attempt to suggest that Denver wanted Jones in the first round is simply trying to feel better that the Giants weren't the only team that viewed Jones so highly...
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Wasn’t taking Jones. I can say that with 100% certainty
It was discussed a month BEFORE the draft that the Broncos were exploring getting out of the 10th spot in that 2019 draft. So the trade was not some sort of panic move by Elway because Jones was suddenly gone at #6.
I stand firm - any attempt to suggest that Denver wanted Jones in the first round is simply trying to feel better that the Giants weren't the only team that viewed Jones so highly...
I agree. This isn't to say that teams didn't have Jones on their radar and may have been considering him at some point...just nobody close to #6. Even Belichick made some very public comments if he was there late in Rd 1 that he would have been in the conversation. The Broncos as well in early Rd 2 and if Lock was gone.
This is CYA kind of stuff that is very transparent...
I'm not asking for whatever source you have, I'm curious how you know...
a source you're not asking me about said so. im just another guy at a keyboard who likes the giants. you can believe whatever you want but i've got no reason to make this or anything else ive ever posted up. it's actually somewhat illuminating to see how easy it is for someone to be completely sure about the wrong thing just because they want to believe it.
also it's not like what I said is breaking any news. Vacchiano reported this long before I knew anything. I'll say 2 things re: where my info came from, it was not dave gettleman and I can tell you with a high degree of certainty it's from someone closer to the decisions than wherever Ralph got his info.
@RVacchianoSNY
Why didn't Dave Gettleman wait until 17 to take Daniel Jones?
"I know for a fact there were tei teams that would've taken him in front of 17,” he said. “I know that for a fact"
(The two teams, according to NFL sources: The Redskins and Broncos)
7:22 PM · Apr 27, 2019
but sure. there's no way 2 teams who ended up taking QBs, 1 of whom traded down from their first round pick right after the NYG selected Jones, and both of whom who have already moved on from those players, would have taken Jones. Totally inconceivable.
There’s a great book called the Scout Mindset about how we make decisions and how sure we are of ourselves. A fun trick in it discusses how we should practice giving percentages to things we believe and should seriously examine anything we believe 100%.
I’ll play first and say I’m 20% sure Daniel Jones can be a great QB who makes his teammates better.
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Wasn’t taking Jones. I can say that with 100% certainty
It was discussed a month BEFORE the draft that the Broncos were exploring getting out of the 10th spot in that 2019 draft. So the trade was not some sort of panic move by Elway because Jones was suddenly gone at #6.
I stand firm - any attempt to suggest that Denver wanted Jones in the first round is simply trying to feel better that the Giants weren't the only team that viewed Jones so highly...
With respect, you stand firmly wrong.
There’s a great book called the Scout Mindset about how we make decisions and how sure we are of ourselves. A fun trick in it discusses how we should practice giving percentages to things we believe and should seriously examine anything we believe 100%.
I’ll play first and say I’m 20% sure Daniel Jones can be a great QB who makes his teammates better.
I'm not even sure what you are asking. Like what if Daniel Jones wasn't Daniel Jones? Or, what if he played like this for the Bears? I'd be laughing at the Bears, as I laughed at them over Trubisky. I feel it is a 5% chance Jones can be a great QB. With odds like that you look elsewhere, forthwith. But even if you think it is a 20% chance, then the Giants made a gigantic mistake not considering Fields or Mac Jones at 11.
Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
Why didn't Dave Gettleman wait until 17 to take Daniel Jones?
"I know for a fact there were tei teams that would've taken him in front of 17,” he said. “I know that for a fact"
(The two teams, according to NFL sources: The Redskins and Broncos)
7:22 PM · Apr 27, 2019
but sure. there's no way 2 teams who ended up taking QBs, 1 of whom traded down from their first round pick right after the NYG selected Jones, and both of whom who have already moved on from those players, would have taken Jones. Totally inconceivable.
You don't find it odd or peculiar that Gettleman felt the need to make that comment?
Why not simply say they liked Jones and thought he was worth taking at #6? Why the need to justify the pick by saying other teams had interest?
To me, that screams insecurity and CYA 101.
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Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
Why didn't Dave Gettleman wait until 17 to take Daniel Jones?
"I know for a fact there were tei teams that would've taken him in front of 17,” he said. “I know that for a fact"
(The two teams, according to NFL sources: The Redskins and Broncos)
7:22 PM · Apr 27, 2019
but sure. there's no way 2 teams who ended up taking QBs, 1 of whom traded down from their first round pick right after the NYG selected Jones, and both of whom who have already moved on from those players, would have taken Jones. Totally inconceivable.
You don't find it odd or peculiar that Gettleman felt the need to make that comment?
Why not simply say they liked Jones and thought he was worth taking at #6? Why the need to justify the pick by saying other teams had interest?
To me, that screams insecurity and CYA 101.
The whole Denver was picking Jones canard is desperate and laughable. Their evidence is that they traded with the Steelers after Jones was picked. yea ok.. that's not evidence, that's speculation. Maybe they traded down after Devin White, or Josh Allen. Or maybe they just wanted out of the 10 spot because they saw better value later.
You don't find it odd or peculiar that Gettleman felt the need to make that comment?
Why not simply say they liked Jones and thought he was worth taking at #6? Why the need to justify the pick by saying other teams had interest?
To me, that screams insecurity and CYA 101.
No I don't find it peculiar bc it's a pro forma statement every GM makes about their picks and because I don't get triggered by every comment the guy makes.
Either way it's beside the point. He isn't the GM of any other team so what he says doesn't have any bearing on the truth of the statement.
There’s a great book called the Scout Mindset about how we make decisions and how sure we are of ourselves. A fun trick in it discusses how we should practice giving percentages to things we believe and should seriously examine anything we believe 100%.
I’ll play first and say I’m 20% sure Daniel Jones can be a great QB who makes his teammates better.
If Jones was on WFT instead BBI absolutely would be laughing at them
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But if Jones played for another team and was a top 10 pick, who some considered a reach (whether you agree or not), or he was an older QB who had one decent season, what would your opinion be of him? People have a hard time reflecting on something they have an emotional investment in (I’m a therapist). You can’t escape it, even if you try! Emotions drive the brain. But pretending you could, would folks really think the QB they’ve watched the past two seasons inspires faith or is just the victim of a bad OC? If that’s the case, I wonder if they apply that logic elsewhere.
There’s a great book called the Scout Mindset about how we make decisions and how sure we are of ourselves. A fun trick in it discusses how we should practice giving percentages to things we believe and should seriously examine anything we believe 100%.
I’ll play first and say I’m 20% sure Daniel Jones can be a great QB who makes his teammates better.
If Jones was on WFT instead BBI absolutely would be laughing at them
a hundred percent.
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In comment 15367974 ajr2456 said:
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Wasn’t taking Jones. I can say that with 100% certainty
It was discussed a month BEFORE the draft that the Broncos were exploring getting out of the 10th spot in that 2019 draft. So the trade was not some sort of panic move by Elway because Jones was suddenly gone at #6.
I stand firm - any attempt to suggest that Denver wanted Jones in the first round is simply trying to feel better that the Giants weren't the only team that viewed Jones so highly...
With respect, you stand firmly wrong.
Why is it in America that people stand firm and defiant and confident about things that they either know to be untrue or they have no way of proving that these things are true?
Emotion rules the day.
The rest just doesn’t fit...
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In comment 15368060 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15367974 ajr2456 said:
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Wasn’t taking Jones. I can say that with 100% certainty
It was discussed a month BEFORE the draft that the Broncos were exploring getting out of the 10th spot in that 2019 draft. So the trade was not some sort of panic move by Elway because Jones was suddenly gone at #6.
I stand firm - any attempt to suggest that Denver wanted Jones in the first round is simply trying to feel better that the Giants weren't the only team that viewed Jones so highly...
With respect, you stand firmly wrong.
Why is it in America that people stand firm and defiant and confident about things that they either know to be untrue or they have no way of proving that these things are true?
Emotion rules the day.
Internet, bringin people together baby!
It's incredible how fucking stupid Gettleman was in that whole scenario.
It's incredible how fucking stupid Gettleman was in that whole scenario.
Yes. A clearer take on an ongoing debate that has no actual value...
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If they were going to take Jones in round 1 it's hardly a compliment. And if they had, so what? We had already committed to paying Eli by that point so drafting Jones was idiotic. We ended up paying Eli $23M for two starts whole the Giants were still in competition to make the playoffs.
It's incredible how fucking stupid Gettleman was in that whole scenario.
Yes. A clearer take on an ongoing debate that has no actual value...
People actually think Gettleman is the GM for this team, and Go Terps post is just another supporting argument that he absolutely is not based on an example from recent history.
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In comment 15368085 Eric on Li said:
You don't find it odd or peculiar that Gettleman felt the need to make that comment?
Why not simply say they liked Jones and thought he was worth taking at #6? Why the need to justify the pick by saying other teams had interest?
To me, that screams insecurity and CYA 101.
No I don't find it peculiar bc it's a pro forma statement every GM makes about their picks and because I don't get triggered by every comment the guy makes.
Either way it's beside the point. He isn't the GM of any other team so what he says doesn't have any bearing on the truth of the statement.
Let me add an actual fact to this because you are way over your skis and need to revisit what ever "reliable" information you think you have.
WFT was NOT drafting Jones. Snyder was taking Hopkins. It was signed, sealed, and delivered. Synder's son went to high school with Hopkins at The Bullis School in Potomac, MD. They played football together. The Snyders became friends with the Hopkins. So Snyder was very fond of DH and became more enamored with him when Hopkins had his breakout year at Ohio State. In fact, Snyder pulled rank and took Hopkins despite the fact Jay Gruden didn't want Hopkins.
This is without dispute and completely eliminates WFT as one of the two teams in Gettleman's fairy tale explanation...
This. And it's clear as day that Mara hand picked JG. So you can be sure before considering it a sunk cost Mara will make sure they continue to try and jam a square peg into a round hole and make it work.
He makes a lot of mistakes. Is that fixable? If so, he's be great.
He makes a lot of mistakes. Is that fixable? If so, he's be great.
If he's teachable, logic suggests that he would stop making the same mistakes repeatedly.
Very likeable guy, but every failed QB who's ever played had some, most, or all of those traits.
He makes a lot of mistakes. Is that fixable? If so, he's be great.
That’s exactly right and it’s why Joe Montana was never able to take the step up to the NFL.
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IF God was building the perfect QB he would make him about 6'4", athletic, strong armed, smart, hard-working, teachable, and with a desire to win. DJ has every one of those traits.
He makes a lot of mistakes. Is that fixable? If so, he's be great.
That’s exactly right and it’s why Joe Montana was never able to take the step up to the NFL.
I mean I tend to think if God was making the perfect QB he'd give him all of those traits but also make him good at actually playing QB.
We have no way of knowing the answer.
It was a silly thing for DG to say in the first place.
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In comment 15368126 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15368085 Eric on Li said:
You don't find it odd or peculiar that Gettleman felt the need to make that comment?
Why not simply say they liked Jones and thought he was worth taking at #6? Why the need to justify the pick by saying other teams had interest?
To me, that screams insecurity and CYA 101.
No I don't find it peculiar bc it's a pro forma statement every GM makes about their picks and because I don't get triggered by every comment the guy makes.
Either way it's beside the point. He isn't the GM of any other team so what he says doesn't have any bearing on the truth of the statement.
Let me add an actual fact to this because you are way over your skis and need to revisit what ever "reliable" information you think you have.
WFT was NOT drafting Jones. Snyder was taking Hopkins. It was signed, sealed, and delivered. Synder's son went to high school with Hopkins at The Bullis School in Potomac, MD. They played football together. The Snyders became friends with the Hopkins. So Snyder was very fond of DH and became more enamored with him when Hopkins had his breakout year at Ohio State. In fact, Snyder pulled rank and took Hopkins despite the fact Jay Gruden didn't want Hopkins.
This is without dispute and completely eliminates WFT as one of
the two teams in Gettleman's fairy tale explanation...
I think you mean Haskins. But we know what you meant and indications were that was true. As far as other teams? Lots of guessing. Wouldn't surprise me either way. At this point doesn't matter IMO. Jones is getting this year at least to show what he has or doesn't have.
...just WOW?
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16 games, 415 attempts. 4 TD, 18INT.
So, you Googled Trent Dilfer for the sole purpose of discrediting him because he had something positive about DJ?
...just WOW?
No one thinks Dilfer was a good QB. There's nothing to discredit. It's simply an unbelievably funny stat line for a full season of football. He was ungodly terribly.
Here's another fun Dilfer fact. He is no longer at ESPN because one of his contract demands was use of a private jet.
Well...I think that worked out pretty well for Cincinnati. I would never have thought I'd say such a thing but the Bengals future looks a bit more rosy than ours.
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Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
Why didn't Dave Gettleman wait until 17 to take Daniel Jones?
"I know for a fact there were tei teams that would've taken him in front of 17,” he said. “I know that for a fact"
(The two teams, according to NFL sources: The Redskins and Broncos)
7:22 PM · Apr 27, 2019
but sure. there's no way 2 teams who ended up taking QBs, 1 of whom traded down from their first round pick right after the NYG selected Jones, and both of whom who have already moved on from those players, would have taken Jones. Totally inconceivable.
You don't find it odd or peculiar that Gettleman felt the need to make that comment?
Why not simply say they liked Jones and thought he was worth taking at #6? Why the need to justify the pick by saying other teams had interest?
To me, that screams insecurity and CYA 101.
This!!!
Let me add an actual fact to this because you are way over your skis and need to revisit what ever "reliable" information you think you have.
WFT was NOT drafting Jones. Snyder was taking Hopkins. It was signed, sealed, and delivered. Synder's son went to high school with Hopkins at The Bullis School in Potomac, MD. They played football together. The Snyders became friends with the Hopkins. So Snyder was very fond of DH and became more enamored with him when Hopkins had his breakout year at Ohio State. In fact, Snyder pulled rank and took Hopkins despite the fact Jay Gruden didn't want Hopkins.
This is without dispute and completely eliminates WFT as one of
the two teams in Gettleman's fairy tale explanation...
I think you mean Haskins. But we know what you meant and indications were that was true. As far as other teams? Lots of guessing. Wouldn't surprise me either way. At this point doesn't matter IMO. Jones is getting this year at least to show what he has or doesn't have.
Geesh - thanks. My dislike of Haskins is so deep I refused to spell his name correctly... ;)
he's not the only but when an entire offense of players regresses you have to look to the common link, no? Was Slayton not previously a promising WR? Engram's production last year was laughable compared to previous seasons (which were already considered disappointing).
Jones 100% needs to do better too but asking any individual player (even a QB) to make a difference in this offense is like thinking any individual was going to make James Bettcher's defense all of a sudden work.
Slayton was a flawed WR who had a promising rookie year, but let's not overstate his production. DC's also had a year of film on him, and saw that he could be disrupted by physical CB's. DC's also saw how DJ could be confused by post-snap changes in coverage.
As I said, I am far from a Garrett fan, and if he were fired or demoted today, I would pop open a bottle to celebrate, BUT a guy like Dak, a 4th round pick, as a rookie threw for 3,700 yds, 23 TD's and 4 picks running Garrett's offense, so it's not all on Garrett.
And it's not just stats. DJ fails the eye test. A really shaky pocket presence, locks onto WR's, especially on short routes, those are traits that should be solved after 25+ starts. Maybe he'll buck history and be a top starter, but I'll believe it when I see it.
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Let me add an actual fact to this because you are way over your skis and need to revisit what ever "reliable" information you think you have.
WFT was NOT drafting Jones. Snyder was taking Hopkins. It was signed, sealed, and delivered. Synder's son went to high school with Hopkins at The Bullis School in Potomac, MD. They played football together. The Snyders became friends with the Hopkins. So Snyder was very fond of DH and became more enamored with him when Hopkins had his breakout year at Ohio State. In fact, Snyder pulled rank and took Hopkins despite the fact Jay Gruden didn't want Hopkins.
This is without dispute and completely eliminates WFT as one of
the two teams in Gettleman's fairy tale explanation...
I think you mean Haskins. But we know what you meant and indications were that was true. As far as other teams? Lots of guessing. Wouldn't surprise me either way. At this point doesn't matter IMO. Jones is getting this year at least to show what he has or doesn't have.
Geesh - thanks. My dislike of Haskins is so deep I refused to spell his name correctly... ;)
something this year. The Giants can't wait until year 4
to truly find about him. Some of the issues haven't changed.
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he's not the only but when an entire offense of players regresses you have to look to the common link, no? Was Slayton not previously a promising WR? Engram's production last year was laughable compared to previous seasons (which were already considered disappointing).
Jones 100% needs to do better too but asking any individual player (even a QB) to make a difference in this offense is like thinking any individual was going to make James Bettcher's defense all of a sudden work.
Slayton was a flawed WR who had a promising rookie year, but let's not overstate his production. DC's also had a year of film on him, and saw that he could be disrupted by physical CB's. DC's also saw how DJ could be confused by post-snap changes in coverage.
As I said, I am far from a Garrett fan, and if he were fired or demoted today, I would pop open a bottle to celebrate, BUT a guy like Dak, a 4th round pick, as a rookie threw for 3,700 yds, 23 TD's and 4 picks running Garrett's offense, so it's not all on Garrett.
And it's not just stats. DJ fails the eye test. A really shaky pocket presence, locks onto WR's, especially on short routes, those are traits that should be solved after 25+ starts. Maybe he'll buck history and be a top starter, but I'll believe it when I see it.
That's a fair argument. Of all the complaints about Jones...I think the most valid one might be that he has David Carr syndrome.
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In comment 15368044 Eric on Li said:
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he's not the only but when an entire offense of players regresses you have to look to the common link, no? Was Slayton not previously a promising WR? Engram's production last year was laughable compared to previous seasons (which were already considered disappointing).
Jones 100% needs to do better too but asking any individual player (even a QB) to make a difference in this offense is like thinking any individual was going to make James Bettcher's defense all of a sudden work.
Slayton was a flawed WR who had a promising rookie year, but let's not overstate his production. DC's also had a year of film on him, and saw that he could be disrupted by physical CB's. DC's also saw how DJ could be confused by post-snap changes in coverage.
As I said, I am far from a Garrett fan, and if he were fired or demoted today, I would pop open a bottle to celebrate, BUT a guy like Dak, a 4th round pick, as a rookie threw for 3,700 yds, 23 TD's and 4 picks running Garrett's offense, so it's not all on Garrett.
And it's not just stats. DJ fails the eye test. A really shaky pocket presence, locks onto WR's, especially on short routes, those are traits that should be solved after 25+ starts. Maybe he'll buck history and be a top starter, but I'll believe it when I see it.
That's a fair argument. Of all the complaints about Jones...I think the most valid one might be that he has David Carr syndrome.
Just hope a mic doesn't pick him up saying he's seeing ghosts