“When he does – and I don’t think it’s an if, it’s a when,” Dilfer said about the turnover problem. “When he does, and as they get more talented up front, they gotta get better up front. When those things happen, I think this is probably a next year thing to be honest with you. You’ll see flashes of it this year. But when he does, he’s going to be one of the better players in the NFL.
I'll have what he's having!
but at some point, you have to win. you have to outplay the teddy bridgewaters at home in your season opener.
the older i get, the more patience i have for players. the light can still come on for him - he's 24 years old. but i want to see more eli and less matt ryan. take control. even if you come up short, play winning football.
i would love to see the guy we saw in his debut. 18 points down! can you imagine that now? instead it's almost like he's afraid to make a mistake. he's not playing football, he's thinking football. he needs to get back to playing, and soon.
This, of course, would mean Garrett has to dramatically modify his offense. Frankly, I think Fred Kitchens could do this much better. Making it work with Jones is MUCH, MUCH better for the team going forward, then having to start all over again from scratch.
Don't look at stats.
Eye test.
We lost that game because Bridgewater was a much better QB.
Right now, Daniel Jones is not as good as Teddy Bridgewater.
That, is a fact.
That is a big problem.
For the here and now the Giants simply need to do absolutely anything it takes to try to turn back the clock and get him playing the way he did in 2019. Even if it means literally going back to plays more similar to that year. It's hard to believe that for a full year the majority consensus was behind Jones. Physically nothing has changed since then and the turnovers have actually gone down. Garrett owns the poor results for the offense.
I guess its good he changed his mind though.
For the here and now the Giants simply need to do absolutely anything it takes to try to turn back the clock and get him playing the way he did in 2019. Even if it means literally going back to plays more similar to that year. It's hard to believe that for a full year the majority consensus was behind Jones. Physically nothing has changed since then and the turnovers have actually gone down. Garrett owns the poor results for the offense.
Tannehill's "first act" was better than Jones, despite what people seem to be remembering about him.
Don't look at stats.
Eye test.
We lost that game because Bridgewater was a much better QB.
Right now, Daniel Jones is not as good as Teddy Bridgewater.
That, is a fact.
That is a big problem.
That is NOT a fact. That isn't even close to true. Go back and look at the game. Bridgewater would never have completed 40% of his passes if he and Jones switched teams and i think Jones would have beaten the Gmen if were the QB for the Broncos. We missed a TON of chances tackling Bridgewater. We missed a ton of tackles elsewhere. We didn't get "free" or easy rushes on Bridgewater like the Broncos got on Jones. Our run blocking was poor..
This whole idea that Bridgewater was better than Jones is only true via the Broncos played better than the Giants. Have the QB's Switch teams and the same result happens. No way Bridgewater escapes the rush for us. With no running game he isn't dinking and dunking in our offense down the field. Jones on the other hand, in Shurmurs offense would make plays against our defense and with our poor tackling from that game we probably lose by even more.
What’s the point
In a playoff game, teams clamp down on the few things a qb does well and makes them beat u with won’t they do t do well
Sorta like what has slowed down a Lamar jackson type in playoffs ( he may be actually improving in that aspect though)
Basically what people are saying is if jones has a good oline and real good weapons, he can be pretty good
Big deal. So can 1/2 or more the nfl qbs
I want a qb who can actually make his players better. Jones will probably never do that
Quote:
I might be wrong.
Don't look at stats.
Eye test.
We lost that game because Bridgewater was a much better QB.
Right now, Daniel Jones is not as good as Teddy Bridgewater.
That, is a fact.
That is a big problem.
That is NOT a fact. That isn't even close to true. Go back and look at the game. Bridgewater would never have completed 40% of his passes if he and Jones switched teams and i think Jones would have beaten the Gmen if were the QB for the Broncos. We missed a TON of chances tackling Bridgewater. We missed a ton of tackles elsewhere. We didn't get "free" or easy rushes on Bridgewater like the Broncos got on Jones. Our run blocking was poor..
This whole idea that Bridgewater was better than Jones is only true via the Broncos played better than the Giants. Have the QB's Switch teams and the same result happens. No way Bridgewater escapes the rush for us. With no running game he isn't dinking and dunking in our offense down the field. Jones on the other hand, in Shurmurs offense would make plays against our defense and with our poor tackling from that game we probably lose by even more.
Every game I wait for Jones to be the "GUY".
The team is banged up and the QB elevates his game and wins a game we should have lost.
Or.
It is late in the game and we have still have a chance to win despite mistakes. With a couple of perfect passes Jones could seize victory form defeat...
I continue to wait.
I thought that was supposed to be Judge's forte
For the here and now the Giants simply need to do absolutely anything it takes to try to turn back the clock and get him playing the way he did in 2019. Even if it means literally going back to plays more similar to that year. It's hard to believe that for a full year the majority consensus was behind Jones. Physically nothing has changed since then and the turnovers have actually gone down. Garrett owns the poor results for the offense.
What do you mean it's hard to believe the majority consensus was behind Jones?
You can't commit to a QB who is a one read QB. It will get exposed in the playoffs.
If he's singled up - let it rip
If he's doubled - look for Shep or EE
You know what my eyes told me?
IN denver you have an OC who EMPHASIZES the strengths of the QB, remember we saw that at one point too...same OC maybe? TB had nice easy throws to make and he made them. he often times had 1 or 2 reads to make and deliver. He is a savy vet who knew where to go with the ball.
IN NY, you have an OC who runs an old school style of play with ZERO creativity, zero ability to get guys open, and zero design to the skillset of the player.
Jones has talent, he is a duel threat and is tough as they come, but there is no way you can sit here and tell me our OC the last 2 years has done anything to cater to his strengths. He is a mover, roll him out, give him the option to run and pass. He isnt just a sit back there and pick your defense apart type of qb, gett him on the edge. Allow him to use his legs. Allow playactions to scheme guys open for him.
Quote:
I'm pretty confident in a good system Jones would have a second act better than Tannehill has. The previous Denver regime was high on Jones and with Shurmur now there, if Jones were to move on that's a situation/supporting cast I think he'd really thrive in.
For the here and now the Giants simply need to do absolutely anything it takes to try to turn back the clock and get him playing the way he did in 2019. Even if it means literally going back to plays more similar to that year. It's hard to believe that for a full year the majority consensus was behind Jones. Physically nothing has changed since then and the turnovers have actually gone down. Garrett owns the poor results for the offense.
What do you mean it's hard to believe the majority consensus was behind Jones?
Anecdotally I recall a pretty high % of the fanbase being optimistic about jones going into last year.
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In comment 15367442 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
I'm pretty confident in a good system Jones would have a second act better than Tannehill has. The previous Denver regime was high on Jones and with Shurmur now there, if Jones were to move on that's a situation/supporting cast I think he'd really thrive in.
For the here and now the Giants simply need to do absolutely anything it takes to try to turn back the clock and get him playing the way he did in 2019. Even if it means literally going back to plays more similar to that year. It's hard to believe that for a full year the majority consensus was behind Jones. Physically nothing has changed since then and the turnovers have actually gone down. Garrett owns the poor results for the offense.
What do you mean it's hard to believe the majority consensus was behind Jones?
Anecdotally I recall a pretty high % of the fanbase being optimistic about jones going into last year.
I was one of these. I thought Jones was looking very good. My concerns grew last season. I'm still open to him being the solution, but I see a lot of excuse making and not tangible analysis that would change my mind.
It's worked out great.
but at some point, you have to win. you have to outplay the teddy bridgewaters at home in your season opener.
the older i get, the more patience i have for players. the light can still come on for him - he's 24 years old. but i want to see more eli and less matt ryan. take control. even if you come up short, play winning football.
i would love to see the guy we saw in his debut. 18 points down! can you imagine that now? instead it's almost like he's afraid to make a mistake. he's not playing football, he's thinking football. he needs to get back to playing, and soon.
Less Matt Ryan? Guy has a SB ring if his coach isn't a moron.
That's actually kind of good point as it pertains to this. DJ is being hamstrung by the playcalling and the defense just letting people march down the field for 8 minute drives isn't helping. Then when we are down two score he starts to play hero ball, pretty similar to Wentz in that respect (althoug not as bad). You see him try to press too hard. Knock that out of him and you'll be left with a very good QB.
He looked about league average to be honest in the opener. People super hyper focus on every mistake he makes and its ridiculous. There are 21 other players out on the field as well. Garret should have been calling play action deep over the middle of the field by the way the safeties were crashing or at least running some read option. The coaches were abysmal Sunday.
Terps your posts about Jones use to infuriate me, but I tip my hat to you. I beginning to believe everything you say about him is correct.
Not sure where that previous consensus is these days though as the DJ conversations don't have them posting...
It's worked out great.
There were warning signs, but also some positive traits as well.
Those positives have barely shown itself since.
Look at that Tampa Bay game his rookie year. It's not the same quarterback.
Don't look at stats.
Eye test.
We lost that game because Bridgewater was a much better QB.
Right now, Daniel Jones is not as good as Teddy Bridgewater.
That, is a fact.
That is a big problem.
Bridgewater may be limited, but one thing he has always had, is poise, even going back to his Louisville days. He doesn't get flustered.
But if is gonna continue to be pretty good in spots and average at best in other spots plus untimely turnovers way too often, what’s the point?
In that case, try to draft someone good and if not , try your own reclamation project and draft well
Don’t want to blow our draft capital for another qb if talent isn’t there
We are becoming the jets
Quote:
There were warning signs in Jones's rookie season. Most opted to ignore them because he threw five TDs against Washington in a meaningless game.
It's worked out great.
There were warning signs, but also some positive traits as well.
Those positives have barely shown itself since.
Look at that Tampa Bay game his rookie year. It's not the same quarterback.
It is the same quarterback - the difference is everyone has film on him now.
My problem is he has no run game, a conservative OC, a poor offensive line and his weapons can’t stay healthy enough for him to get any kind of consistency with them. I firmly believe that if Jones was on one of the many other teams in the NFL who run the ball well, have a solid O-line and an innovative OC that he would be an ascending QB and would look a lot different.
The Giants need to do better for Jones to succeed.
It's worked out great.
I know you like to bury Jones, but you are usually pretty fair. I'd like your opinion of what the rest of the team played like compared to Denver?
In what aspect did we outperform Denver?
Our running game? Our passing game? Our Defense? Our specials?
Is it at all possible that Daniel Jones is just put in a position to fail since last year?
Does Jones need to be perfect to win?
Are the players around him excelling in spite of him?
Should he excel regardless of poor play around him?
Is he the reason other players are playing poor?
Not making excuses. Asking honest questions
This syncs up with my thinking that Jones is on a two year showcase, not one. And that's because Mara is going to give Jones EVERY chance to succeed. He's not giving up on Jones after three years. Which could set this franchise back another four years if Jones is not the answer after 2022.
This has potential disaster written all over it.
I'm at the point that even if Jones has a decent year in '21, there is just as much of a chance it's an outlier and not a sign of things to come...
THAT MATTERS!
Jones is battling for his career, we don't need to speculate, we will know everything we need to know in a few weeks unless we want to make excuses forever.
Not me.
I think Jones’ detractors here who watch every one of his games and have concluded he ll never be any good, are a more valid reading of Jones’ ability.
I normally hate these type of snarky posts, but I couldn’t help myself. I am a big fan of Jones, I m one of those arm chair viewers that see the potential of what he can be.
Nice to read someone with some actual expertise in the field, agrees with me.
You know what my eyes told me?
IN denver you have an OC who EMPHASIZES the strengths of the QB, remember we saw that at one point too...same OC maybe? TB had nice easy throws to make and he made them. he often times had 1 or 2 reads to make and deliver. He is a savy vet who knew where to go with the ball.
IN NY, you have an OC who runs an old school style of play with ZERO creativity, zero ability to get guys open, and zero design to the skillset of the player.
Jones has talent, he is a duel threat and is tough as they come, but there is no way you can sit here and tell me our OC the last 2 years has done anything to cater to his strengths. He is a mover, roll him out, give him the option to run and pass. He isnt just a sit back there and pick your defense apart type of qb, gett him on the edge. Allow him to use his legs. Allow playactions to scheme guys open for him.
I saw that.
And yet Garrett's offense is seemingly predicated on sticks. When it's 4th and 6 and the game is essentially on the line he runs all curls. Like a 5 year old clutching for his teddy bear.
That's what the league has film on and knows how to stop. And it's actually something they've known how to stop since 2012 when he got demoted from play calling the first time.
https://twitter.com/GiantsAlliance/status/1416392487401361414?s=20 - ( New Window )
Quote:
I might be wrong.
Don't look at stats.
Eye test.
We lost that game because Bridgewater was a much better QB.
Right now, Daniel Jones is not as good as Teddy Bridgewater.
That, is a fact.
That is a big problem.
Bridgewater may be limited, but one thing he has always had, is poise, even going back to his Louisville days. He doesn't get flustered.
Quote:
LOL bridgewater better than jones? What eye test tells you that?!
You know what my eyes told me?
IN denver you have an OC who EMPHASIZES the strengths of the QB, remember we saw that at one point too...same OC maybe? TB had nice easy throws to make and he made them. he often times had 1 or 2 reads to make and deliver. He is a savy vet who knew where to go with the ball.
IN NY, you have an OC who runs an old school style of play with ZERO creativity, zero ability to get guys open, and zero design to the skillset of the player.
Jones has talent, he is a duel threat and is tough as they come, but there is no way you can sit here and tell me our OC the last 2 years has done anything to cater to his strengths. He is a mover, roll him out, give him the option to run and pass. He isnt just a sit back there and pick your defense apart type of qb, gett him on the edge. Allow him to use his legs. Allow playactions to scheme guys open for him.
Bridgewater did not put the ball on the ground in the red zone when his team desperately needed a score.
I saw that.
Right, and Melvin Gordon is better than Barkley, and Von Miller is better than anyone on our Defense, and Shurmer is a better OC than Garrett, and....
And yet Garrett's offense is seemingly predicated on sticks. When it's 4th and 6 and the game is essentially on the line he runs all curls. Like a 5 year old clutching for his teddy bear.
That's what the league has film on and knows how to stop. And it's actually something they've known how to stop since 2012 when he got demoted from play calling the first time. https://twitter.com/GiantsAlliance/status/1416392487401361414?s=20 - ( New Window )
We need a hero. - ( New Window )
7 points. come on.
Quote:
There were warning signs in Jones's rookie season. Most opted to ignore them because he threw five TDs against Washington in a meaningless game.
It's worked out great.
I know you like to bury Jones, but you are usually pretty fair. I'd like your opinion of what the rest of the team played like compared to Denver?
In what aspect did we outperform Denver?
Our running game? Our passing game? Our Defense? Our specials?
Is it at all possible that Daniel Jones is just put in a position to fail since last year?
Does Jones need to be perfect to win?
Are the players around him excelling in spite of him?
Should he excel regardless of poor play around him?
Is he the reason other players are playing poor?
Not making excuses. Asking honest questions
Many players are playing poorly. I won't argue there. This roster is a disaster.
But Jones is one of those players playing poorly, and he is very much part of the disaster. He sets himself up to fail by being slow to see anything past his first read, by having no pocket presence, by having slow mechanics, and by not being careful with the football.
He's a very poor starting NFL quarterback. The signs were there his rookie year, they manifested themselves clearly during his horrendous second season, and we saw more of the same against Denver.
I hope you didn't buy a Jones jersey. If you did it's soon going to be stashed next to your Odell Beckham and Eli Apple jerseys.
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In comment 15367475 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
LOL bridgewater better than jones? What eye test tells you that?!
You know what my eyes told me?
IN denver you have an OC who EMPHASIZES the strengths of the QB, remember we saw that at one point too...same OC maybe? TB had nice easy throws to make and he made them. he often times had 1 or 2 reads to make and deliver. He is a savy vet who knew where to go with the ball.
IN NY, you have an OC who runs an old school style of play with ZERO creativity, zero ability to get guys open, and zero design to the skillset of the player.
Jones has talent, he is a duel threat and is tough as they come, but there is no way you can sit here and tell me our OC the last 2 years has done anything to cater to his strengths. He is a mover, roll him out, give him the option to run and pass. He isnt just a sit back there and pick your defense apart type of qb, gett him on the edge. Allow him to use his legs. Allow playactions to scheme guys open for him.
Bridgewater did not put the ball on the ground in the red zone when his team desperately needed a score.
I saw that.
Right, and Melvin Gordon is better than Barkley, and Von Miller is better than anyone on our Defense, and Shurmer is a better OC than Garrett, and....
As are his critics relentless. Not really any difference in the two camps. I guess it depends on whose Ox is getting gored.
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The tide of excuses for Jones is endless.
As are his critics relentless. Not really any difference in the two camps. I guess it depends on whose Ox is getting gored.
There is a difference. One side is right and the other never knew what they were talking about.
If I know it, damn well D knows it
Just telegraphing stuff
Saquon is either overrated, not being used correctly, or probably a bit of both
KG is a guy u get going early and get him into the groove
They should probably give kitchens a shot as OC some point this yr
JG isn’t the problem but pretty sure he isn’t the solution either