right about the social media effect. IT made people into irrational childish idiots. Over reaction to over reaction. The best point is this year was not last year, and they need to play more together to get better.. They had very little practice together this preseason. So 4 games in we will know whether there is something brewing or not.
I said it back in the day about TC, when the team figures it out it will be a monster.. can they figure it out this time because i see something coming together.. that Seattle game and the Tampa Game were not flukes neither were the games against Washington..
the offense is not aggressive. they don't ever stretch the field vertically. they don't take shot plays. the way they run their offense, the goal seems to be 14-15 play drives and not chunk plays. it's like they don't even have chunk plays in their playbook. and do you know what happens when teams are forced to go on 14-15 play drives? mistakes. a holding call, a sack, etc which derail the drive. this team plays not to lose and not to make mistakes rather than trying to win. it's painfully obvious to see.
as for joe judge, we all gave him one year. it was clear the offense was a huge problem last year. it was too conservative and bland and outdated. they did not fire the coordinator in the offseason. we saw judge hire numerous offensive coaches this off-season with the hope that together they would improve the play design and play-calling. it certainly appears that didn't happen as so far it appears to be same old same old. perhaps even more conservative. so yes the honeymoon is over. yes people are impatient with judge now because the coaches on offense haven't made the required adjustments.
I don’t want to put words in Eric’s mouth, but I think he’s saying that (as far as the Denver game goes) the offense was behind the 8-ball because the defense was on the field for so long a time and made it a very difficult come-from-behind situation for the offense.
how about the offense does it's job then and pick up the defense and go put up points. RB is a #2 pick. QB is a #6 pick. LT is a #4 pick. Shep over 10M. Golloday over 17M. toney first round pick. etc. give me a break with this behind the 8-ball.
the offense is not aggressive. they don't ever stretch the field vertically. they don't take shot plays. the way they run their offense, the goal seems to be 14-15 play drives and not chunk plays. it's like they don't even have chunk plays in their playbook. and do you know what happens when teams are forced to go on 14-15 play drives? mistakes. a holding call, a sack, etc which derail the drive. this team plays not to lose and not to make mistakes rather than trying to win. it's painfully obvious to see.
as for joe judge, we all gave him one year. it was clear the offense was a huge problem last year. it was too conservative and bland and outdated. they did not fire the coordinator in the offseason. we saw judge hire numerous offensive coaches this off-season with the hope that together they would improve the play design and play-calling. it certainly appears that didn't happen as so far it appears to be same old same old. perhaps even more conservative. so yes the honeymoon is over. yes people are impatient with judge now because the coaches on offense haven't made the required adjustments.
I don’t want to put words in Eric’s mouth, but I think he’s saying that (as far as the Denver game goes) the offense was behind the 8-ball because the defense was on the field for so long a time and made it a very difficult come-from-behind situation for the offense.
how about the offense does it's job then and pick up the defense and go put up points. RB is a #2 pick. QB is a #6 pick. LT is a #4 pick. Shep over 10M. Golloday over 17M. toney first round pick. etc. give me a break with this behind the 8-ball.
SB first game back in 12 months after a horrific injury with a very, very limited pre-season, Golladay missed last 11 (?) games of last year with virtually no pre-season due to the hamstring injury, Toney virtually no pre-season due to a multitude of factors and the LT played pretty solid in this game. But yeah, the former 3 players mentioned above should just be able to instantly develop chemistry and start burning defenses given the circumstances I mentioned. OK. Let's not get into the poor protection from the right side of the OL either.
but for me it is more aggressive in style, formation etc. When you decide to run a lot out of Shotgun you are then taking a passive running stance, running scheme and tone (or perhaps finesse is the better term). That does not lead to dominance or physically wearing people down and makes your more Hog Mollie OL play a game they just are not suited for.
Too many of our plays require perfection or perfect situations to actually work. Bring Rudolph in motion to block the backside LB is a lot to ask of a guy who is coming off the PUP, has not had much work period and has to get around our less than stellar RT to get to the backside pursuit. That doesn't even take into account our guards moving laterally to block and what happens if they give up penetration at the snap possibly crashing into the motioning across TE...
Where are our actual power plays designed to smash into the defense and create some feeling, some identity of power. Where are our outside designed runs with our Gold Jacket RB? Why do we do all this motion, all this "trickery" in our yet to be established running game. Trickery, finesse works so much better when you have already established that you can run and will run. Without that setup, everything else is counting on perfection in our play and assuming the defense doesn't win any battles.
If the offense doesn’t have the ball it can’t score. I was saying this during the last game, as well. Additionally, the margin for error from the offense is also very small if they don’t have many opportunities to move the football and score. It comes down to taking advantage of almost every opportunity on offense and we know that’s not going to happen. Opponent ToP is generally killing us. Defense has to get off the field and get the ball back to the offense.
Eric's stringing together games comment is spot on...
depends on the offensive line. The question is, will playing together over the next several games show significant improvement? If so, it will be somewhat remarkable given that two of the starters (Bredeson and Price) will be castoffs from other fairly mediocre teams. If Bredeson and Price prove to be adequate, it will be confirmation that Gettleman is incompetent. Sure, he made the trades, but his hand was forced by the disaster that he created.
As I’ve perused the site this week, I’ve found the regular pessimist suspects (me, Terps, Googs, BW, maybe JonC) are the most level headed about Graham and Judge.
There’s still much more work to be done with the roster.
This wasn’t going to be a magical turn around. The talent they added got banged up and will need to ease in. There are also some big holes on this team along both lines, outside linebacker, and maybe QB.
Judge is coaching with a hand behind his back - bad QB he didn't pick, bad OC that was foisted on him, bad offensive line (and bad roster in general) assembled by the bad GM.
The absolute last thing you can say is "It's just one game." If the Giants had any delusions of how good they were, they just got tail-whipped out the window. Coaches and players. Big time reality check.
Kind of nice they have a quick turnaround game. Either they bite down and crank it up a notch or they really do suck. Put up or shut up time for all involved. Looking for a big effort and a pissed off team. Either way, this season is providing meaningful answers at HC and QB.
One of your best previews, Eric, and that's saying a lot.
To the critics, I'd emphasize how little real practice time we've had, after a season compromised by Covid AND with a short preseason. Even the best coach/teachers in the world need time, especially with so many 1st/2nd year guys in critical positions.
We'll improve a lot, though probably not before tomorrow night.
For me this is the comment that sums up a lot around here
“Fans don’t see the brief Joe Judge era (2020-present) as distinct from the sad end of the Tom Coughlin era (2012-2015), Ben McAdoo era (2016-2017), and Pat Shurmur era (2018-2019).”
And I get it. We’re all sick of this. But the above is true as well.
Judge is coaching with a hand behind his back - bad QB he didn't pick, bad OC that was foisted on him, bad offensive line (and bad roster in general) assembled by the bad GM.
My feeling is the rebuild has not yet even begun.
I've a strong feeling the next major re-build starts at the end of this season.
I've heard criticism that he's not aggressive enough (not just on offense, in general -- and yes I know eric addressed that) -- but it seems that everyone is still laying this at the feet of Garrett and DG.
the offense is not aggressive. they don't ever stretch the field vertically. they don't take shot plays. the way they run their offense, the goal seems to be 14-15 play drives and not chunk plays. it's like they don't even have chunk plays in their playbook. and do you know what happens when teams are forced to go on 14-15 play drives? mistakes. a holding call, a sack, etc which derail the drive. this team plays not to lose and not to make mistakes rather than trying to win. it's painfully obvious to see.
as for joe judge, we all gave him one year. it was clear the offense was a huge problem last year. it was too conservative and bland and outdated. they did not fire the coordinator in the offseason. we saw judge hire numerous offensive coaches this off-season with the hope that together they would improve the play design and play-calling. it certainly appears that didn't happen as so far it appears to be same old same old. perhaps even more conservative. so yes the honeymoon is over. yes people are impatient with judge now because the coaches on offense haven't made the required adjustments.
I don’t want to put words in Eric’s mouth, but I think he’s saying that (as far as the Denver game goes) the offense was behind the 8-ball because the defense was on the field for so long a time and made it a very difficult come-from-behind situation for the offense.
how about the offense does it's job then and pick up the defense and go put up points. RB is a #2 pick. QB is a #6 pick. LT is a #4 pick. Shep over 10M. Golloday over 17M. toney first round pick. etc. give me a break with this behind the 8-ball.
Can't forget Hernandez at #34
RE: For me this is the comment that sums up a lot around here
“Fans don’t see the brief Joe Judge era (2020-present) as distinct from the sad end of the Tom Coughlin era (2012-2015), Ben McAdoo era (2016-2017), and Pat Shurmur era (2018-2019).”
And I get it. We’re all sick of this. But the above is true as well.
The losing is a continuation, but IMO, there is a very distinctly different feeling from 17 on vs 12-15.
!6 was obviously an awesome year. At least in 12-15 they could score some points. This offense has been completely broken since 17. That alone separates it from 12-15 for me.
review. I'm trying to be optimistic but game one highlighted a lot of the same problems that have plagued this team for years that DG said he would fix:
Bad OL.
Bad play calling.
Jones still fumbling and locking on to receivers
Unimaginative play calling.
Defense that can't get off the field on third (and now fourth) down.
Missed tackles.
No edge rushers that scare anyone.
Stupid penalties.
We need to run the ball against the WFT and limit their possessions to win.
review. I'm trying to be optimistic but game one highlighted a lot of the same problems that have plagued this team for years that DG said he would fix:
Bad OL.
Bad play calling.
Jones still fumbling and locking on to receivers
Unimaginative play calling.
Defense that can't get off the field on third (and now fourth) down.
Missed tackles.
No edge rushers that scare anyone.
Stupid penalties.
We need to run the ball against the WFT and limit their possessions to win.
The offensive line is not good enough for that strategy. That's how you constantly end up in 3rd and 6+ and turn the ball over too quickly.
The team has a better shot throwing the ball on 1st down than they do running it.
On top of that, Garrett doesn't call plays that are downfield passes, compounding the problem.
Not sure if either of these guys posted on BBI. Nick writes for Sports Illustrated. Dan is a fantasy Sports Editor at CBS. Agreed that just because someone has a platform doesn't mean their knowledgeable. I believe Nick went to a scouting academy for training, anyway... they are both watching the all 22 film each week which is something that I don't do. My main point is there is a section of the fan base concerned about Garrett when he was hired and that some of this criticism is not new.
I'm pretty selective in what I read on BBI. There are my favorite posters who I enjoy reading their opinions and I read the game reviews and game previews. The draft rumors and coverage are also a lot of fun.
To Garrett's credit sometimes he calls a hell of game, like he did last year in our loss to the Eagles. My biggest fear is that Daniel Jones is a coach killer for lack of a better description. He doesn't process things fast enough for Garrett's offense to really click.
It seems like those guys know their business. They also don't belittle people who disagree with the organization.
The idea that the fan base has turned on Joe Judge
address is the WHY fans (including myself) turned against Judge so quickly. I think it’s because of how they lost, what we saw. You can’t preach “putting players in position to succeed” and then turn around and ask your two high priced FA CBs to play loose zone, when their reputations are they are better at press coverage. That’s one example, and there were others. Fans are tired of seeing the team “appear” to
Be unprepared and virtually non- competitive. That’s on management and the coaches. The vitriol is now being directed at Judge because he’s the only one of that group we haven’t wailed on yet l
The Giants were defeated last week by a team that was 5 and 11
last year in the AFC West. Fans are upset because it looked liked the team was totally unprepared to play that game last Sunday. Also the Broncos best defensive player Chubb did not play.
I'm tired of excuses being made for last week. The Broncos manhandled the Giants last week..it wasn't close....
Even at halftime with the score 10 to 7 I never felt confident we would win that game as we were dominated in the first half.
Shameful performance that both the players and coaches share responsibility for...
Having said all of that...it is a new week and I am rooting for a win against WFT.
last year in the AFC West. Fans are upset because it looked liked the team was totally unprepared to play that game last Sunday. Also the Broncos best defensive player Chubb did not play.
I'm tired of excuses being made for last week. The Broncos manhandled the Giants last week..it wasn't close....
Even at halftime with the score 10 to 7 I never felt confident we would win that game as we were dominated in the first half.
Shameful performance that both the players and coaches share responsibility for...
Having said all of that...it is a new week and I am rooting for a win against WFT.
the offense is not aggressive. they don't ever stretch the field vertically. they don't take shot plays. the way they run their offense, the goal seems to be 14-15 play drives and not chunk plays. it's like they don't even have chunk plays in their playbook. and do you know what happens when teams are forced to go on 14-15 play drives? mistakes. a holding call, a sack, etc which derail the drive. this team plays not to lose and not to make mistakes rather than trying to win. it's painfully obvious to see.
as for joe judge, we all gave him one year. it was clear the offense was a huge problem last year. it was too conservative and bland and outdated. they did not fire the coordinator in the offseason. we saw judge hire numerous offensive coaches this off-season with the hope that together they would improve the play design and play-calling. it certainly appears that didn't happen as so far it appears to be same old same old. perhaps even more conservative. so yes the honeymoon is over. yes people are impatient with judge now because the coaches on offense haven't made the required adjustments.
A more concise way to describe the offense is 3 plays to get a first down. That’s how Garrett calls the game. It’s an old school mentality of controlling the clock that’s outdated. You need shot plays which can result in PI and defensive holding calls. A huge part of the game, that fans won’t like or admit to, is putting pressure on refs to make calls against a defense. The rule changes make it clear as day the way to win is no longer having a true balance between run and pass. Too many first down runs by Garrett. Let’s see if this changes today
There are seasons where the Giants D looked like they had 12 or 13 people playing on defense and many more games where it looked like just what it is. However, there are also games where it looks like they have 9 or 10 people on defense.
When, as Eric points out, we can't get off the field on third or even fourth down; that is when it looks like we have 9 or 10 on defense.
I thought that this defense would bring us back to the days when we thought we had 12 or 13.
But as Eric says....trends not snapshots.
Heinicke is average at best. Let's make him look that way tonight.
I'm not taking any solace from the fact that we're facing
Which has nothing to do with the Giants historic bad performances against 2nd and 3rd string QBs who are forced into action.
This guy was mighty impressive in Washington's play-off loss to the eventual Super Bowl Champion. He threw for 300 yards and he looked very mobile in the pocket.
RE: The Giants were defeated last week by a team that was 5 and 11
last year in the AFC West. Fans are upset because it looked liked the team was totally unprepared to play that game last Sunday. Also the Broncos best defensive player Chubb did not play.
I'm tired of excuses being made for last week. The Broncos manhandled the Giants last week..it wasn't close....
Even at halftime with the score 10 to 7 I never felt confident we would win that game as we were dominated in the first half.
Shameful performance that both the players and coaches share responsibility for...
Having said all of that...it is a new week and I am rooting for a win against WFT.
what will their excuses be?
I'm tired of seeing the Giants lose, but that's what I anticipate every time they play.
Mara hired Gettleman,then they hired Joe Judge as their head coach. Instead of allowing JJ to hire his staff Gettleman and Mara hired Garrett to become the Offensive Coordinator, and the offence has been wishy-washy during the entire time Garrett has been here.
Their superstar player is as fragile as a porcelain doll, and the QB has a difficult time handling the ball.
The point I'm getting to is that the Giants have been a bad team for a decade, and through the bad decisions from the meddling owner and his hand picked friend who is acting as GM, this team is still going to be bad for several more years.
Mara should sit in his office and let the football people run his team, the only thing he should do is sign their checks.
Gettleman should be fired immediately. Garrett should be fired immediately. Joe Judge should be allowed to run his team the way he wants to run them, without the meddling control of the owner and his friends.
last year in the AFC West. Fans are upset because it looked liked the team was totally unprepared to play that game last Sunday. Also the Broncos best defensive player Chubb did not play.
I'm tired of excuses being made for last week. The Broncos manhandled the Giants last week..it wasn't close....
Even at halftime with the score 10 to 7 I never felt confident we would win that game as we were dominated in the first half.
Shameful performance that both the players and coaches share responsibility for...
Having said all of that...it is a new week and I am rooting for a win against WFT.
I don't think that's accurate. Maybe there are some loud voices, but I think people are frustrated with the offense more than anything.
Otherwise, kind of a weird "preview". It seemed like half the article was spent on ripping fans for criticizing the offensive line, and the other half was excusing the offense's poor showing against Denver on the offensive line. So yeah...
RE: Do the majority of fans really want Judge gone?
I don't think that's accurate. Maybe there are some loud voices, but I think people are frustrated with the offense more than anything.
Otherwise, kind of a weird "preview". It seemed like half the article was spent on ripping fans for criticizing the offensive line, and the other half was excusing the offense's poor showing against Denver on the offensive line. So yeah...
the problem is the way they got here. they have the coach on a different timeline than the GM. if the GM brought in judge, you would think they would have the same fate and then the organization would start over with new people at both positions.
instead it seems like DG gets fired and then what? do they do what they always do and promote from within? abrams sounds clueless to me when it comes to being a GM. i heard his interview with ranaan and was not impressed. they need to hire from completely outside the organization. i mean really just hire someone from the ravens or bucs or SF front office and give that a chance.
and if they do hire a GM from outside the organization, i think it would be fair to give said GM the option to hire his own coach if he so chooses assuming the giants stink this year. i mean if the giants stink this year, what will joe judge really have proven to where he should be kept ob board no matter what?
RE: RE: Do the majority of fans really want Judge gone?
I don't think that's accurate. Maybe there are some loud voices, but I think people are frustrated with the offense more than anything.
Otherwise, kind of a weird "preview". It seemed like half the article was spent on ripping fans for criticizing the offensive line, and the other half was excusing the offense's poor showing against Denver on the offensive line. So yeah...
the problem is the way they got here. they have the coach on a different timeline than the GM. if the GM brought in judge, you would think they would have the same fate and then the organization would start over with new people at both positions.
instead it seems like DG gets fired and then what? do they do what they always do and promote from within? abrams sounds clueless to me when it comes to being a GM. i heard his interview with ranaan and was not impressed. they need to hire from completely outside the organization. i mean really just hire someone from the ravens or bucs or SF front office and give that a chance.
and if they do hire a GM from outside the organization, i think it would be fair to give said GM the option to hire his own coach if he so chooses assuming the giants stink this year. i mean if the giants stink this year, what will joe judge really have proven to where he should be kept ob board no matter what?
I think they should let Judge pick his preferred GM. They should share a vision.
I don't think that's accurate. Maybe there are some loud voices, but I think people are frustrated with the offense more than anything.
Otherwise, kind of a weird "preview". It seemed like half the article was spent on ripping fans for criticizing the offensive line, and the other half was excusing the offense's poor showing against Denver on the offensive line. So yeah...
the problem is the way they got here. they have the coach on a different timeline than the GM. if the GM brought in judge, you would think they would have the same fate and then the organization would start over with new people at both positions.
instead it seems like DG gets fired and then what? do they do what they always do and promote from within? abrams sounds clueless to me when it comes to being a GM. i heard his interview with ranaan and was not impressed. they need to hire from completely outside the organization. i mean really just hire someone from the ravens or bucs or SF front office and give that a chance.
and if they do hire a GM from outside the organization, i think it would be fair to give said GM the option to hire his own coach if he so chooses assuming the giants stink this year. i mean if the giants stink this year, what will joe judge really have proven to where he should be kept ob board no matter what?
I think they should let Judge pick his preferred GM. They should share a vision.
agreed. and the GM and coach should be on the same length of contract too.
To summarize the rest, we need to run for 5 yards on 1st down, and the defense needs to win games for us.
Is it 1990 or 2021? Good Lord.
Then you haven't been on BBI the past few days.
Secondly, there are still teams who win by running the ball and playing good defense, including the Giants during their 4-game winning streak last year.
is a quote from Chase Young about Jones and his fumbling:
“Yeah, we’ve been talking about that for the past few days,” defensive end Chase Young said. “Obviously, he struggled holding the ball in the past, and that’s a big emphasis. Going in on Thursday, that’s definitely something that’s on our radar.”
To summarize the rest, we need to run for 5 yards on 1st down, and the defense needs to win games for us.
Is it 1990 or 2021? Good Lord.
Then you haven't been on BBI the past few days.
Secondly, there are still teams who win by running the ball and playing good defense, including the Giants during their 4-game winning streak last year.
Yes that 4-game winning streak is obviously the blueprint for success around the NFL. Grinding out a 23-20 and 19-17 wins over backup QBs is definitely something to shoot for. As enjoyable as the 17-12 win in Seattle was, that's not really a sustainable plan either.
There's a reason the 2020 Giants led the league in third and long situations... because they were near the top of the league in running the ball on first down.
If the guy running the ball is Daniel Jones (our best running threat), I'm fine with that approach. Otherwise, this offense needs to start throwing the ball on first down as much as possible.
Make Jones's life easier. Peyton Manning said it the other night during the broadcast - their philosophy was to not even get to third down.
Quote:Make Jones's life easier. Peyton Manning said it the other night during the broadcast - their philosophy was to not even get to third down.
Don't forget Peyton's other observation during the game...that Baltimore was daring LV to run the ball, and playing rush the passer/tight coverage.
That's going to be the response to the first point. The current game has changed from "run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer." because of all the rule changes.
Instead of "run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer", the NFL is now "pass the ball, stop the pass, rush the passer". There simply aren't enough competent Offensive Linemen coming out of college to establish a dominant running game for most teams; if you are a great athlete, you're more likely to be a WR/DL/LB than a CB/OL/RB.
The NFL is now looking closer to Arena Ball, because the defenses in Arena Ball were neutered as well to produce more "fan friendly" high scoring games. As in Arena Ball, the emphasis is more on pressuring the passer to create turnovers, since each possession is precious when you can't stop an offense otherwise.
Quote:Make Jones's life easier. Peyton Manning said it the other night during the broadcast - their philosophy was to not even get to third down.
Don't forget Peyton's other observation during the game...that Baltimore was daring LV to run the ball, and playing rush the passer/tight coverage.
That's going to be the response to the first point. The current game has changed from "run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer." because of all the rule changes.
Instead of "run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer", the NFL is now "pass the ball, stop the pass, rush the passer". There simply aren't enough competent Offensive Linemen coming out of college to establish a dominant running game for most teams; if you are a great athlete, you're more likely to be a WR/DL/LB than a CB/OL/RB.
The NFL is now looking closer to Arena Ball, because the defenses in Arena Ball were neutered as well to produce more "fan friendly" high scoring games. As in Arena Ball, the emphasis is more on pressuring the passer to create turnovers, since each possession is precious when you can't stop an offense otherwise.
Well, Gettleman didn't even get the gist on rush the passer for either plan. None of the edge guys we've brought in via free agency or the draft have been up to snuff, while trading JPP wound up shooting ourselves in the foot because JPP rebounded with the Buccaneers while the picks we got from that trade didn't amount to much.
I said it back in the day about TC, when the team figures it out it will be a monster.. can they figure it out this time because i see something coming together.. that Seattle game and the Tampa Game were not flukes neither were the games against Washington..
Quote:
the offense is not aggressive. they don't ever stretch the field vertically. they don't take shot plays. the way they run their offense, the goal seems to be 14-15 play drives and not chunk plays. it's like they don't even have chunk plays in their playbook. and do you know what happens when teams are forced to go on 14-15 play drives? mistakes. a holding call, a sack, etc which derail the drive. this team plays not to lose and not to make mistakes rather than trying to win. it's painfully obvious to see.
as for joe judge, we all gave him one year. it was clear the offense was a huge problem last year. it was too conservative and bland and outdated. they did not fire the coordinator in the offseason. we saw judge hire numerous offensive coaches this off-season with the hope that together they would improve the play design and play-calling. it certainly appears that didn't happen as so far it appears to be same old same old. perhaps even more conservative. so yes the honeymoon is over. yes people are impatient with judge now because the coaches on offense haven't made the required adjustments.
I don’t want to put words in Eric’s mouth, but I think he’s saying that (as far as the Denver game goes) the offense was behind the 8-ball because the defense was on the field for so long a time and made it a very difficult come-from-behind situation for the offense.
how about the offense does it's job then and pick up the defense and go put up points. RB is a #2 pick. QB is a #6 pick. LT is a #4 pick. Shep over 10M. Golloday over 17M. toney first round pick. etc. give me a break with this behind the 8-ball.
Quote:
In comment 15367671 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
the offense is not aggressive. they don't ever stretch the field vertically. they don't take shot plays. the way they run their offense, the goal seems to be 14-15 play drives and not chunk plays. it's like they don't even have chunk plays in their playbook. and do you know what happens when teams are forced to go on 14-15 play drives? mistakes. a holding call, a sack, etc which derail the drive. this team plays not to lose and not to make mistakes rather than trying to win. it's painfully obvious to see.
as for joe judge, we all gave him one year. it was clear the offense was a huge problem last year. it was too conservative and bland and outdated. they did not fire the coordinator in the offseason. we saw judge hire numerous offensive coaches this off-season with the hope that together they would improve the play design and play-calling. it certainly appears that didn't happen as so far it appears to be same old same old. perhaps even more conservative. so yes the honeymoon is over. yes people are impatient with judge now because the coaches on offense haven't made the required adjustments.
I don’t want to put words in Eric’s mouth, but I think he’s saying that (as far as the Denver game goes) the offense was behind the 8-ball because the defense was on the field for so long a time and made it a very difficult come-from-behind situation for the offense.
how about the offense does it's job then and pick up the defense and go put up points. RB is a #2 pick. QB is a #6 pick. LT is a #4 pick. Shep over 10M. Golloday over 17M. toney first round pick. etc. give me a break with this behind the 8-ball.
SB first game back in 12 months after a horrific injury with a very, very limited pre-season, Golladay missed last 11 (?) games of last year with virtually no pre-season due to the hamstring injury, Toney virtually no pre-season due to a multitude of factors and the LT played pretty solid in this game. But yeah, the former 3 players mentioned above should just be able to instantly develop chemistry and start burning defenses given the circumstances I mentioned. OK. Let's not get into the poor protection from the right side of the OL either.
Too many of our plays require perfection or perfect situations to actually work. Bring Rudolph in motion to block the backside LB is a lot to ask of a guy who is coming off the PUP, has not had much work period and has to get around our less than stellar RT to get to the backside pursuit. That doesn't even take into account our guards moving laterally to block and what happens if they give up penetration at the snap possibly crashing into the motioning across TE...
Where are our actual power plays designed to smash into the defense and create some feeling, some identity of power. Where are our outside designed runs with our Gold Jacket RB? Why do we do all this motion, all this "trickery" in our yet to be established running game. Trickery, finesse works so much better when you have already established that you can run and will run. Without that setup, everything else is counting on perfection in our play and assuming the defense doesn't win any battles.
That is what I mean by being agressive.
Hernandez looks good in his preseason snaps and now he is hot garbage again.
Threads were recently created on desire to extend Peppers, and he just got benched.
Adoree Jackson solves our 2nd corner problems, and now he is a bum.
Thursday night will undoubtedly flip more of the typical scripts around here...
There’s still much more work to be done with the roster.
This wasn’t going to be a magical turn around. The talent they added got banged up and will need to ease in. There are also some big holes on this team along both lines, outside linebacker, and maybe QB.
Judge is a good, young coach who is learning.
My feeling is the rebuild has not yet even begun.
Kind of nice they have a quick turnaround game. Either they bite down and crank it up a notch or they really do suck. Put up or shut up time for all involved. Looking for a big effort and a pissed off team. Either way, this season is providing meaningful answers at HC and QB.
We'll improve a lot, though probably not before tomorrow night.
And I get it. We’re all sick of this. But the above is true as well.
My feeling is the rebuild has not yet even begun.
I've a strong feeling the next major re-build starts at the end of this season.
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In comment 15367671 GiantsFan84 said:
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the offense is not aggressive. they don't ever stretch the field vertically. they don't take shot plays. the way they run their offense, the goal seems to be 14-15 play drives and not chunk plays. it's like they don't even have chunk plays in their playbook. and do you know what happens when teams are forced to go on 14-15 play drives? mistakes. a holding call, a sack, etc which derail the drive. this team plays not to lose and not to make mistakes rather than trying to win. it's painfully obvious to see.
as for joe judge, we all gave him one year. it was clear the offense was a huge problem last year. it was too conservative and bland and outdated. they did not fire the coordinator in the offseason. we saw judge hire numerous offensive coaches this off-season with the hope that together they would improve the play design and play-calling. it certainly appears that didn't happen as so far it appears to be same old same old. perhaps even more conservative. so yes the honeymoon is over. yes people are impatient with judge now because the coaches on offense haven't made the required adjustments.
I don’t want to put words in Eric’s mouth, but I think he’s saying that (as far as the Denver game goes) the offense was behind the 8-ball because the defense was on the field for so long a time and made it a very difficult come-from-behind situation for the offense.
how about the offense does it's job then and pick up the defense and go put up points. RB is a #2 pick. QB is a #6 pick. LT is a #4 pick. Shep over 10M. Golloday over 17M. toney first round pick. etc. give me a break with this behind the 8-ball.
And I get it. We’re all sick of this. But the above is true as well.
!6 was obviously an awesome year. At least in 12-15 they could score some points. This offense has been completely broken since 17. That alone separates it from 12-15 for me.
Bad OL.
Bad play calling.
Jones still fumbling and locking on to receivers
Unimaginative play calling.
Defense that can't get off the field on third (and now fourth) down.
Missed tackles.
No edge rushers that scare anyone.
Stupid penalties.
We need to run the ball against the WFT and limit their possessions to win.
Bad OL.
Bad play calling.
Jones still fumbling and locking on to receivers
Unimaginative play calling.
Defense that can't get off the field on third (and now fourth) down.
Missed tackles.
No edge rushers that scare anyone.
Stupid penalties.
We need to run the ball against the WFT and limit their possessions to win.
The team has a better shot throwing the ball on 1st down than they do running it.
On top of that, Garrett doesn't call plays that are downfield passes, compounding the problem.
I'm pretty selective in what I read on BBI. There are my favorite posters who I enjoy reading their opinions and I read the game reviews and game previews. The draft rumors and coverage are also a lot of fun.
To Garrett's credit sometimes he calls a hell of game, like he did last year in our loss to the Eagles. My biggest fear is that Daniel Jones is a coach killer for lack of a better description. He doesn't process things fast enough for Garrett's offense to really click.
It seems like those guys know their business. They also don't belittle people who disagree with the organization.
Be unprepared and virtually non- competitive. That’s on management and the coaches. The vitriol is now being directed at Judge because he’s the only one of that group we haven’t wailed on yet l
I'm tired of excuses being made for last week. The Broncos manhandled the Giants last week..it wasn't close....
Even at halftime with the score 10 to 7 I never felt confident we would win that game as we were dominated in the first half.
Shameful performance that both the players and coaches share responsibility for...
Having said all of that...it is a new week and I am rooting for a win against WFT.
with practically all long-term losing football teams.
They never seem to be able to overcome adversity and/or bad breaks.
And they also put on film miserable games in which the assumption going in was that they would at least be competitive.
That was the New York Giants last Sunday against Denver.
That has been the New York Giants year after year.
I know of only one way to break the black hole spiral -- significant personnel turnover on and off the field.
I'm tired of excuses being made for last week. The Broncos manhandled the Giants last week..it wasn't close....
Even at halftime with the score 10 to 7 I never felt confident we would win that game as we were dominated in the first half.
Shameful performance that both the players and coaches share responsibility for...
Having said all of that...it is a new week and I am rooting for a win against WFT.
Precisely. You nailed it.
as for joe judge, we all gave him one year. it was clear the offense was a huge problem last year. it was too conservative and bland and outdated. they did not fire the coordinator in the offseason. we saw judge hire numerous offensive coaches this off-season with the hope that together they would improve the play design and play-calling. it certainly appears that didn't happen as so far it appears to be same old same old. perhaps even more conservative. so yes the honeymoon is over. yes people are impatient with judge now because the coaches on offense haven't made the required adjustments.
A more concise way to describe the offense is 3 plays to get a first down. That’s how Garrett calls the game. It’s an old school mentality of controlling the clock that’s outdated. You need shot plays which can result in PI and defensive holding calls. A huge part of the game, that fans won’t like or admit to, is putting pressure on refs to make calls against a defense. The rule changes make it clear as day the way to win is no longer having a true balance between run and pass. Too many first down runs by Garrett. Let’s see if this changes today
People want to call it a must win game tonight, i dont think its must win, i think its aust dont look like crap type of game..
For as bad as the offense was they still moved the ball and had oppurtunities, they need to capitilize..
Defense cant give up a bunch of 3rd downs
When, as Eric points out, we can't get off the field on third or even fourth down; that is when it looks like we have 9 or 10 on defense.
I thought that this defense would bring us back to the days when we thought we had 12 or 13.
But as Eric says....trends not snapshots.
Heinicke is average at best. Let's make him look that way tonight.
QB Taylor Heinicke.
Which has nothing to do with the Giants historic bad performances against 2nd and 3rd string QBs who are forced into action.
This guy was mighty impressive in Washington's play-off loss to the eventual Super Bowl Champion. He threw for 300 yards and he looked very mobile in the pocket.
I'm tired of excuses being made for last week. The Broncos manhandled the Giants last week..it wasn't close....
Even at halftime with the score 10 to 7 I never felt confident we would win that game as we were dominated in the first half.
Shameful performance that both the players and coaches share responsibility for...
Having said all of that...it is a new week and I am rooting for a win against WFT.
spot on, Rick
I'm tired of seeing the Giants lose, but that's what I anticipate every time they play.
Mara hired Gettleman,then they hired Joe Judge as their head coach. Instead of allowing JJ to hire his staff Gettleman and Mara hired Garrett to become the Offensive Coordinator, and the offence has been wishy-washy during the entire time Garrett has been here.
Their superstar player is as fragile as a porcelain doll, and the QB has a difficult time handling the ball.
The point I'm getting to is that the Giants have been a bad team for a decade, and through the bad decisions from the meddling owner and his hand picked friend who is acting as GM, this team is still going to be bad for several more years.
Mara should sit in his office and let the football people run his team, the only thing he should do is sign their checks.
Gettleman should be fired immediately. Garrett should be fired immediately. Joe Judge should be allowed to run his team the way he wants to run them, without the meddling control of the owner and his friends.
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last year in the AFC West. Fans are upset because it looked liked the team was totally unprepared to play that game last Sunday. Also the Broncos best defensive player Chubb did not play.
I'm tired of excuses being made for last week. The Broncos manhandled the Giants last week..it wasn't close....
Even at halftime with the score 10 to 7 I never felt confident we would win that game as we were dominated in the first half.
Shameful performance that both the players and coaches share responsibility for...
Having said all of that...it is a new week and I am rooting for a win against WFT.
spot on, Rick
+2.
Otherwise, kind of a weird "preview". It seemed like half the article was spent on ripping fans for criticizing the offensive line, and the other half was excusing the offense's poor showing against Denver on the offensive line. So yeah...
Otherwise, kind of a weird "preview". It seemed like half the article was spent on ripping fans for criticizing the offensive line, and the other half was excusing the offense's poor showing against Denver on the offensive line. So yeah...
the problem is the way they got here. they have the coach on a different timeline than the GM. if the GM brought in judge, you would think they would have the same fate and then the organization would start over with new people at both positions.
instead it seems like DG gets fired and then what? do they do what they always do and promote from within? abrams sounds clueless to me when it comes to being a GM. i heard his interview with ranaan and was not impressed. they need to hire from completely outside the organization. i mean really just hire someone from the ravens or bucs or SF front office and give that a chance.
and if they do hire a GM from outside the organization, i think it would be fair to give said GM the option to hire his own coach if he so chooses assuming the giants stink this year. i mean if the giants stink this year, what will joe judge really have proven to where he should be kept ob board no matter what?
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I don't think that's accurate. Maybe there are some loud voices, but I think people are frustrated with the offense more than anything.
Otherwise, kind of a weird "preview". It seemed like half the article was spent on ripping fans for criticizing the offensive line, and the other half was excusing the offense's poor showing against Denver on the offensive line. So yeah...
the problem is the way they got here. they have the coach on a different timeline than the GM. if the GM brought in judge, you would think they would have the same fate and then the organization would start over with new people at both positions.
instead it seems like DG gets fired and then what? do they do what they always do and promote from within? abrams sounds clueless to me when it comes to being a GM. i heard his interview with ranaan and was not impressed. they need to hire from completely outside the organization. i mean really just hire someone from the ravens or bucs or SF front office and give that a chance.
and if they do hire a GM from outside the organization, i think it would be fair to give said GM the option to hire his own coach if he so chooses assuming the giants stink this year. i mean if the giants stink this year, what will joe judge really have proven to where he should be kept ob board no matter what?
I think they should let Judge pick his preferred GM. They should share a vision.
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In comment 15368404 sb from NYT Forum said:
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I don't think that's accurate. Maybe there are some loud voices, but I think people are frustrated with the offense more than anything.
Otherwise, kind of a weird "preview". It seemed like half the article was spent on ripping fans for criticizing the offensive line, and the other half was excusing the offense's poor showing against Denver on the offensive line. So yeah...
the problem is the way they got here. they have the coach on a different timeline than the GM. if the GM brought in judge, you would think they would have the same fate and then the organization would start over with new people at both positions.
instead it seems like DG gets fired and then what? do they do what they always do and promote from within? abrams sounds clueless to me when it comes to being a GM. i heard his interview with ranaan and was not impressed. they need to hire from completely outside the organization. i mean really just hire someone from the ravens or bucs or SF front office and give that a chance.
and if they do hire a GM from outside the organization, i think it would be fair to give said GM the option to hire his own coach if he so chooses assuming the giants stink this year. i mean if the giants stink this year, what will joe judge really have proven to where he should be kept ob board no matter what?
I think they should let Judge pick his preferred GM. They should share a vision.
agreed. and the GM and coach should be on the same length of contract too.
Is it 1990 or 2021? Good Lord.
Is it 1990 or 2021? Good Lord.
Then you haven't been on BBI the past few days.
Secondly, there are still teams who win by running the ball and playing good defense, including the Giants during their 4-game winning streak last year.
“Yeah, we’ve been talking about that for the past few days,” defensive end Chase Young said. “Obviously, he struggled holding the ball in the past, and that’s a big emphasis. Going in on Thursday, that’s definitely something that’s on our radar.”
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To summarize the rest, we need to run for 5 yards on 1st down, and the defense needs to win games for us.
Is it 1990 or 2021? Good Lord.
Then you haven't been on BBI the past few days.
Secondly, there are still teams who win by running the ball and playing good defense, including the Giants during their 4-game winning streak last year.
Yes that 4-game winning streak is obviously the blueprint for success around the NFL. Grinding out a 23-20 and 19-17 wins over backup QBs is definitely something to shoot for. As enjoyable as the 17-12 win in Seattle was, that's not really a sustainable plan either.
If the guy running the ball is Daniel Jones (our best running threat), I'm fine with that approach. Otherwise, this offense needs to start throwing the ball on first down as much as possible.
Make Jones's life easier. Peyton Manning said it the other night during the broadcast - their philosophy was to not even get to third down.
So many people are stuck in the past.
Make Jones's life easier. Peyton Manning said it the other night during the broadcast - their philosophy was to not even get to third down.
So many people are stuck in the past.
What's wrong with you? There are really only three tenets to winning football - run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer. Remember?
Seriously, I did find that point by Manning very interesting the way he said it.
Quote:Make Jones's life easier. Peyton Manning said it the other night during the broadcast - their philosophy was to not even get to third down.
Don't forget Peyton's other observation during the game...that Baltimore was daring LV to run the ball, and playing rush the passer/tight coverage.
That's going to be the response to the first point. The current game has changed from "run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer." because of all the rule changes.
Instead of "run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer", the NFL is now "pass the ball, stop the pass, rush the passer". There simply aren't enough competent Offensive Linemen coming out of college to establish a dominant running game for most teams; if you are a great athlete, you're more likely to be a WR/DL/LB than a CB/OL/RB.
The NFL is now looking closer to Arena Ball, because the defenses in Arena Ball were neutered as well to produce more "fan friendly" high scoring games. As in Arena Ball, the emphasis is more on pressuring the passer to create turnovers, since each possession is precious when you can't stop an offense otherwise.
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In comment 15369018 Go Terps said:
Quote:Make Jones's life easier. Peyton Manning said it the other night during the broadcast - their philosophy was to not even get to third down.
Don't forget Peyton's other observation during the game...that Baltimore was daring LV to run the ball, and playing rush the passer/tight coverage.
That's going to be the response to the first point. The current game has changed from "run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer." because of all the rule changes.
Instead of "run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer", the NFL is now "pass the ball, stop the pass, rush the passer". There simply aren't enough competent Offensive Linemen coming out of college to establish a dominant running game for most teams; if you are a great athlete, you're more likely to be a WR/DL/LB than a CB/OL/RB.
The NFL is now looking closer to Arena Ball, because the defenses in Arena Ball were neutered as well to produce more "fan friendly" high scoring games. As in Arena Ball, the emphasis is more on pressuring the passer to create turnovers, since each possession is precious when you can't stop an offense otherwise.
Well, Gettleman didn't even get the gist on rush the passer for either plan. None of the edge guys we've brought in via free agency or the draft have been up to snuff, while trading JPP wound up shooting ourselves in the foot because JPP rebounded with the Buccaneers while the picks we got from that trade didn't amount to much.