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Saquon is still not 100%....Yet

Kev in Cali : 9/15/2021 5:38 pm
Like an armchair QB, I mentioned this in some other SB threads a week ago, BUT most of his runs in his first game were to the left, and on his "healthy" leg to cut on -- he didn't make any hard cuts on the "recovering" left leg and ran straight ahead on the plays to the right.

He's got to be a few weeks away from 100%, no???

I'm really hoping the NYGs don't wreck him for late season or long term if they rush him back from his injury. He's gonna be a key piece for our playoff push.

Blame the OL,
Go Giants!

he wouldnt be playing unless doctors said he healthy  
CGiants07 : 9/15/2021 5:40 pm : link
... whn you have a major injury there is a mental wound to heel as much as physical one
i remember a specific play  
nygiants16 : 9/15/2021 5:41 pm : link
he ran to the right and was close to the sideline and made a hard cut on his right leg..

If he wasnt 100% he wouldnt be out there
RE: i remember a specific play  
UConn4523 : 9/15/2021 5:52 pm : link
In comment 15367831 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
he ran to the right and was close to the sideline and made a hard cut on his right leg..

If he wasnt 100% he wouldnt be out there


He also had the big cut on the screen pass and then slipped. He's gotta just get used to it, especially with virtually no contact all offseason.

If he isn't breaking big plays after a few weeks I'll be concerned but for now its hard to gauge.
Penn St rbs and USC qbs overrated  
Giants73 : 9/15/2021 5:53 pm : link
Has always happened . He had a great rookie season. Guy cannot block, dances constantly. Every run and catch he skips instead of just running. Rookie year bounced everything outside. League figured it out. He is a 20 carry for 25 yard running back with a garbage time 60 yarder. It’s sad when Alfred Morris and Gallman provide more confidence.
Low lights....and  
Kev in Cali : 9/15/2021 5:53 pm : link
Agree that he has a mental wound for now, no doubt that takes a little time to build confidence.

BUT, he never really pushed off the right side on these plays:
SQ can't cut to the left YET - ( New Window )
you have to remember to there is scar tissue  
nygiants16 : 9/15/2021 5:55 pm : link
when that breaks up it is painful as well, i am sure there is still some of that..

He also has to get to thr point where he is not thinking qbout what mpve he is going to make..

Ot is going to take a few games
RE: Penn St rbs and USC qbs overrated  
Tuckrule : 9/15/2021 5:55 pm : link
In comment 15367842 Giants73 said:
Quote:
Has always happened . He had a great rookie season. Guy cannot block, dances constantly. Every run and catch he skips instead of just running. Rookie year bounced everything outside. League figured it out. He is a 20 carry for 25 yard running back with a garbage time 60 yarder. It’s sad when Alfred Morris and Gallman provide more confidence.


This is the dumbest post I’ve seen on bbi in quite some time.
Saquon just needs to stop dancing and hit the hole going forward.  
Spider56 : 9/15/2021 5:55 pm : link
He should watch Gallman’s tape from last year... He’d slash into the line and have 5-10-15 yard gains that SB has the ability to break big time....
RE: Penn St rbs and USC qbs overrated  
nygiants16 : 9/15/2021 5:57 pm : link
In comment 15367842 Giants73 said:
Quote:
Has always happened . He had a great rookie season. Guy cannot block, dances constantly. Every run and catch he skips instead of just running. Rookie year bounced everything outside. League figured it out. He is a 20 carry for 25 yard running back with a garbage time 60 yarder. It’s sad when Alfred Morris and Gallman provide more confidence.


i sense a troll or you are just a moron..

It wasnt just his rookie year, his 2nd year he had 1,000 yards, mkssed 3 games with a high anklr sprain, averaged 4.6 an attempt, had 52 catches for 500 yards..

You  
Straw Hat : 9/15/2021 5:58 pm : link
Can’t deny the talent, but Saquon needs to stop running like a wuss. He has the most powerful legs on the team, time to truck someone.
RE: RE: Penn St rbs and USC qbs overrated  
BMac : 9/15/2021 5:59 pm : link
In comment 15367845 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
In comment 15367842 Giants73 said:


Quote:


Has always happened . He had a great rookie season. Guy cannot block, dances constantly. Every run and catch he skips instead of just running. Rookie year bounced everything outside. League figured it out. He is a 20 carry for 25 yard running back with a garbage time 60 yarder. It’s sad when Alfred Morris and Gallman provide more confidence.



This is the dumbest post I’ve seen on bbi in quite some time.


++++++++++++++++++++++++
RE: Saquon just needs to stop dancing and hit the hole going forward.  
nygiants16 : 9/15/2021 6:00 pm : link
In comment 15367846 Spider56 said:
Quote:
He should watch Gallman’s tape from last year... He’d slash into the line and have 5-10-15 yard gains that SB has the ability to break big time....


he did that a few times on sunday, he saw a holr and just hit it...
RE: Penn St rbs and USC qbs overrated  
GeofromNJ : 9/15/2021 6:13 pm : link
In comment 15367842 Giants73 said:
Quote:
Has always happened . He had a great rookie season. Guy cannot block, dances constantly. Every run and catch he skips instead of just running. Rookie year bounced everything outside. League figured it out. He is a 20 carry for 25 yard running back with a garbage time 60 yarder. It’s sad when Alfred Morris and Gallman provide more confidence.

Well said.
Not to play semantics  
j_rud : 9/15/2021 6:17 pm : link
but being 100% physically and being in physical/mental football shape aren't quote the same thing. We saw some hesitancy and we saw him being patient with his blocks on one outside ru . We saw him cut hard, we also saw him lose his balance. Essentially we're talking about rust. Though I'm still firmly in the "bad pick" camp he's here at the moment and I'm confident he'll improve.
The injury is certainly healed, or  
Bill in UT : 9/15/2021 6:29 pm : link
he wouldn't be playing. Now it's about getting into football shape and whether he can overcome the mental aspect of trying to protect the knee.
Dumbest post  
Giants73 : 9/15/2021 6:30 pm : link
Because I’m not a blind fanboy. Watch the tape, how many times does the guy stop in the backfield and not trust a hole will be there. It’s not college not playing Kent at where there are holes you can drive a truck through. Take what’s there lower his damn shoulders and run.
I love these threads  
UConn4523 : 9/15/2021 6:38 pm : link
we should definitely trade for Gallman
RE: I love these threads  
Bill in UT : 9/15/2021 6:55 pm : link
In comment 15367882 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
we should definitely trade for Gallman


I think he was cut. We could get him for nothing
Gallman  
Giants73 : 9/15/2021 6:57 pm : link
Was traded to Atlanta
RE: RE: Saquon just needs to stop dancing and hit the hole going forward.  
KeoweeFan : 9/15/2021 6:57 pm : link
In comment 15367852 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15367846 Spider56 said:


Quote:


He should watch Gallman’s tape from last year... He’d slash into the line and have 5-10-15 yard gains that SB has the ability to break big time....



he did that a few times on sunday, he saw a holr and just hit it...

There were hints of your observation in their respective college careers.

Gallman out performed all RBs in college (including Saquan) for yards after contact. Wayne's shortcoming that kept him from being elite was lack of breakaway speed; eventually a gang of defenders would bring him down. But he was money in short yardage.

In the pros he was like the long tenured Colonel, not good enough to promote but too good to retire - until his price went up.

In addition to not playing specials, there must have been something else that kept him in the NYG doghouse.

Atlanta looks like his last chance. (but he is close to Loganville where he grew up and 2 hours up I85 to Clemson; there's that.)

...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/15/2021 6:58 pm : link
I know each body is different, but this seems like a long freaking rehab in 2021 with all the advancements we've made in terms of science. He got injured over a year ago & he's still not 100%?
RE: Gallman  
Producer : 9/15/2021 6:58 pm : link
In comment 15367894 Giants73 said:
Quote:
Was traded to Atlanta


Gall man was released by the 49ers and then signed by the Falcs
RE: Penn St rbs and USC qbs overrated  
bLiTz 2k : 9/15/2021 6:59 pm : link
In comment 15367842 Giants73 said:
Quote:
Has always happened . He had a great rookie season. Guy cannot block, dances constantly. Every run and catch he skips instead of just running. Rookie year bounced everything outside. League figured it out. He is a 20 carry for 25 yard running back with a garbage time 60 yarder. It’s sad when Alfred Morris and Gallman provide more confidence.


Ladies and gents, your dumbest comment if the day.
Barry Sanders  
Ike#88 : 9/15/2021 7:12 pm : link
any Super Bowls? Adrian Peterson one win in 5 playoff games, no Super Bowls. Derrick Henry Jr, 6'3" 238lbs and a great runner any Super Bowls? Who has been the dominant runner on the Patriots over time? How about why are the Chiefs really good and a threat to win Super Bowls? It is a great QB and a pass rush that wins Super Bowls. Gettleman made a huge error. The real problem for us now is that SB is best used in a way that LeSean McCoy was used. Can Garrett find a way to get production out of him without running him up the middle or putting him out wide on the sideline. IMHO he should be more of a slotback in passing situations. He is not a tough between the tackles runner. He is an open field threat.
Saquon clearly didn’t show his sea-legs in game 1  
chick310 : 9/15/2021 7:13 pm : link
but would lying if I didn’t say I was disappointed he wasn’t a bigger part of an Offense that desperately needs him. Looks like he will need several more weeks before we can count on some impact type plays.
RE: RE: I love these threads  
UConn4523 : 9/15/2021 7:16 pm : link
In comment 15367893 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
In comment 15367882 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


we should definitely trade for Gallman



I think he was cut. We could get him for nothing


He’s a Falcon now. I’d give them a 2nd.
Anyone who has had an ACL reconstruction will tell you....  
Kanavis : 9/15/2021 7:21 pm : link
That they don't quite feel the same during the first year. Only in the second year does the leg totally feel like the other one. He may be 100% physically healed in terms of the surgery and the graft healing...but there is a lot more to it than that.

They haven't quite figured out what exactly happens over time but people who have ACL reconstruction probably lose some proprioception. There are a lot of receptors that get disrupted during surgery. Also, you have to remember that none of the grafts come free...they take a good chuck of your patellar tendon (or hamstring) for the replacement. Also...he had other injuries that caused a delay in surgery. They waited at least a month post injury. Many athletes (Peterson excepted) don't return to full form in the first year after.

Saquon is a really interesting player. He has all word talent. Even Sunday, there was one lateral movement that had a defender jumping out of his shoes...but then he slipped. With his work ethic, his drive, his personality, he was really set to become a player that could transcend the sport. I think some of us have forgotten just how hyped he was coming out of college ('best prospect in 10 years'). I don't think he lacks toughness at all. But if you were on that trajectory, to be all word, and every single play you get the ball could result in a career ending hit...I think it has to be there in the back of the mind until the 2nd contract. It is a tough position to be rise to stardom in these days. None of the current running backs are the face of the NFL.

I would have delayed his return a bit (and some true experts have also indicated as much). But either way, I have always thought he should be used in space and outside. He is not the best between the tackles runner (even in year 1). Of course, last year, I could not help thinking about him after Gallman got nipped at the ankle and went down with 20 yards in front of him. This is the paradox. Doesn't power through the holes as much as we would like...but if he does get through, he could be gone. I just don't think it happens enough to spend all of that money on the second contract. But...I hope he proves us wrong.
Interesting that the Giants went back  
mittenedman : 9/15/2021 7:23 pm : link
to a zone run scheme for Barkley too (it's what he excelled at in college).

Unfortunately, the Giants OL performs better in a gap scheme, as they showed last year. A case of rearranging things for Saquon rather than playing to overall team strength. It's painful watching these guys zone block - it magnifies the edge blocking problem.

You need the huge ROI from Saquon to justify it. Otherwise these players are better off in a gap scheme.
RE: Interesting that the Giants went back  
Bill in UT : 9/15/2021 7:29 pm : link
In comment 15367931 mittenedman said:
Quote:
to a zone run scheme for Barkley too (it's what he excelled at in college).

Unfortunately, the Giants OL performs better in a gap scheme, as they showed last year. A case of rearranging things for Saquon rather than playing to overall team strength. It's painful watching these guys zone block - it magnifies the edge blocking problem.

You need the huge ROI from Saquon to justify it. Otherwise these players are better off in a gap scheme.


Did he excell because of a run zone, or because he was just so much better than the defenses he played against?
Not an X/O guy  
State Your Name : 9/15/2021 7:36 pm : link
But he looked incredibly hesitant to bump it outside on some of those runs
Per Albert Breer  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/15/2021 7:55 pm : link
Barkley’s played 32 NFL games and has rushed for fewer than 50 yards on more occasions (13) than he has rushed for more than 100 yards (11)

The OL carries a lot of freight for this, but this was supposed to be a hall of fame level player.
RE: Per Albert Breer  
Bill in UT : 9/15/2021 8:01 pm : link
In comment 15367972 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Barkley’s played 32 NFL games and has rushed for fewer than 50 yards on more occasions (13) than he has rushed for more than 100 yards (11)

The OL carries a lot of freight for this, but this was supposed to be a hall of fame level player.


I get this, but his value isn't just as a runner but also as a receiver. But he needs to be doing 100 yards combined every game.
It might be a while till he feels  
prdave73 : 9/15/2021 9:12 pm : link
Back to normal, meanwhile the Giants have crap for backup running backs.. They will be in the same situation if DJ gets hurt.. This team is just built wrong.. sad really..
Of all the things I was critical of on Sunday, Barkley was not one  
Matt M. : 9/15/2021 9:45 pm : link
How many times the last 3 years did people here complain about him trying to bounce everything outside and having no patience? Now, in his limited snaps after recovering from surgery, he is being criticized for NOT bouncing it outside and being too patient. Unbelievable.

RE: Not to play semantics  
Chocco : 9/15/2021 10:10 pm : link
In comment 15367862 j_rud said:
Quote:
but being 100% physically and being in physical/mental football shape aren't quote the same thing. We saw some hesitancy and we saw him being patient with his blocks on one outside ru . We saw him cut hard, we also saw him lose his balance. Essentially we're talking about rust. Though I'm still firmly in the "bad pick" camp he's here at the moment and I'm confident he'll improve.

^This ^
I think he will look better in a couple weeks. Would be nice to see him get the ball with some open space to help build some confidence.
RE: Per Albert Breer  
Jim in Tampa : 9/16/2021 6:56 am : link
In comment 15367972 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Barkley’s played 32 NFL games and has rushed for fewer than 50 yards on more occasions (13) than he has rushed for more than 100 yards (11)

The OL carries a lot of freight for this, but this was supposed to be a hall of fame level player.

Stats don't always tell the whole story.

Given that the Giants have been a bad team during all of Barkley's tenure it's reasonable to assume that the Giants would be behind in the 2nd half of most games. And when a team is behind in the 2nd half (especially late in the game) they will choose to pass rather than run the ball to try and score quickly.

Contrast that with a good team that leads in most games. They are more likely to be ahead late in a game and therefore running the ball more in the 4th Q.
Here’s more from the comments by Breer, courtesy of BBV.  
Spider56 : 9/16/2021 8:08 am : link
Like I said earlier ... he needs to just hit the hole like Gallman did. Interesting anecdote from Nick Gates in there too.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Here’s more from the comments by Breer, courtesy of BBV.  
penkap75 : 9/16/2021 8:16 am : link
In comment 15368251 Spider56 said:
Quote:
Like I said earlier ... he needs to just hit the hole like Gallman did. Interesting anecdote from Nick Gates in there too. Link - ( New Window )


When I commented on Saquon's tendency to dance in the backfield for a loss, I was skewered by the BBI experts here. I actually thought he danced much less last game, and just ran straight into the pile to gain 2-3 dirty yards, and didn't try to bounce it outside like in the past.
He needs to stop running as if he were Barry Sanders  
Greg from LI : 9/16/2021 8:45 am : link
Because he's not. He's a phenomenal athlete, but like Ottis Anderson said in the linked story, the big runs will still come eventually if he keeps hitting holes hard for 3 and 4 yard gains.
RE: He needs to stop running as if he were Barry Sanders  
section125 : 9/16/2021 8:49 am : link
In comment 15368281 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Because he's not. He's a phenomenal athlete, but like Ottis Anderson said in the linked story, the big runs will still come eventually if he keeps hitting holes hard for 3 and 4 yard gains.


Yep. Stop dancing, stick your nose in and push the pile. Guy is billed as a powerful runner along with his speed. If he ran like Ahmed Bradshaw the Giants would benefit and so would he.
He may be a bit leary right now.
RE: Penn St rbs and USC qbs overrated  
NYG22 : 9/16/2021 8:55 am : link
In comment 15367842 Giants73 said:
Quote:
Has always happened . He had a great rookie season. Guy cannot block, dances constantly. Every run and catch he skips instead of just running. Rookie year bounced everything outside. League figured it out. He is a 20 carry for 25 yard running back with a garbage time 60 yarder. It’s sad when Alfred Morris and Gallman provide more confidence.


This wins the "dumb post of the year".
regardless of the rest of that guy's post....  
Greg from LI : 9/16/2021 8:57 am : link
He's right about one thing - it's disappointing that Barkley's such a weak blocker given how big and strong he is. I really hope to see improvement there this year. If much smaller backs like Tiki and Bradshaw could make themselves become ace blockers, there's no reason why he can't too.
playoff push?  
JonC : 9/16/2021 9:02 am : link
Ok.

OL has to get the running game going. SB is missing holes and creases at times, but there's often nowhere for him to run. Garrett needs to figure out how to get him going in the passing game too, 90+ catches as a rookie informs your decision to mix it up.
RE: playoff push?  
Now Mike in MD : 9/16/2021 10:07 am : link
In comment 15368303 JonC said:
Quote:
Ok.

OL has to get the running game going. SB is missing holes and creases at times, but there's often nowhere for him to run. Garrett needs to figure out how to get him going in the passing game too, 90+ catches as a rookie informs your decision to mix it up.


It really does mystify me why he is not utilized as a pass catcher more. That was one of the big reasons we drafted him, ie he was more than just an RB.

On a related note, I have no idea why we never run RPO.
Penn State NFL Running Backs  
jacob12 : 9/16/2021 7:36 pm : link
The comments about PSU RBs are patently false. Penn State alumni are fifth in ALL-time NFL rushing yards with 78,832. Curt Warner, Larry Johnson, Saquon Barkley, Miles Sanders, Franco Harris, Lydell Mitchell, and Lenny Moore are their top RBs. Gary Brown had 4300 yards in the NFL. I am projecting Sanders to be a star.

Many PSU RBs have had debilitating ACL injuries that terminated their careers.

Daniel Jones is much more effective when Barkley is healthy.

After his rookie season GMs, scouts, and players were polled and named Saquon the best RB in the NFL. A GM said he could score from anywhere on the field, and players called Barkley the most explosive runner in football.

Saquon is not soft. He broke more tackles than any RB in his first season. The Giants have an abysmal OL, and they don't have many weapons. Barkley takes a lot of hard hits.

Saquon is a generational talent, and I hope he fully recovers from his injury.


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