Answering a question from a fan about Saquon’s production so in the NFL.
| The Giants’ running back is a home run threat without consistent yardage totals. |
He has some comps to Zeke and Taylor from college and the NFL which are interesting though not encouraging.
Breer Mailbag - (
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If we are 0-6 or even 1-5 or some horrible record, in a season going nowhere. Do we trade Barkley? We cannot POSSIBLY extend him with an offensive line as poorus as ours, you are just burning money that we need to put elsewhere.
What do you do in that scenario?
but...when Breer cites Elliott in the NFL and heralds him as a "two time rushing champ" or however he phrased it and doesn't at least acknowledge that he had by far the best OL in the NFL in that time he is either being lazy or intentionally omitting that.
Because when you look at Elliott in 2020 when the Cowboys OL started to degrade he surpassed the 100 yard mark just twice and was under 85 yards 10 times. That trend continued last week when Elliott had just ~30 yards.
Breer does at least mention there are a lot of factors involved in RB results, but says he is looking just at production trends, well just my opinion, but production without context is kind of irrelevant.
If we are 0-6 or even 1-5 or some horrible record, in a season going nowhere. Do we trade Barkley? We cannot POSSIBLY extend him with an offensive line as poorus as ours, you are just burning money that we need to put elsewhere.
What do you do in that scenario?
Nothing should be off the table if that’s our record. It means everything isn’t working and therefore parting with assets and starting over is a necessity.
So yeah, clean house and take what you can get.
If we are 0-6 or even 1-5 or some horrible record, in a season going nowhere. Do we trade Barkley? We cannot POSSIBLY extend him with an offensive line as poorus as ours, you are just burning money that we need to put elsewhere.
What do you do in that scenario?
They should trade as soon as he has a half decent game. An extension, the size he will want, will almost assuredly be a disaster for the team. So I fully expect him to get a massive second contract from this team
I do remember Shurmur talking about this issue SB's first year. Something along the lines of he has to stick his head in a get those 3-4 tough yards. Those yards are very important to get in setting up second down.
You dont take a ferrari and drive it like a prius..
If we are 0-6 or even 1-5 or some horrible record, in a season going nowhere. Do we trade Barkley? We cannot POSSIBLY extend him with an offensive line as poorus as ours, you are just burning money that we need to put elsewhere.
What do you do in that scenario?
The playbook would suggest you start trading marketable assets that aren't part of the core for how you want to rebuild. Money is a factor here too.
Barkley may be seen as a core player on the Giants but that doesn't mean it is correct.
You dont take a ferrari and drive it like a prius..
He's doing that himself by being a predictable runner. Show him a clogged up tackle box and he will always want to bounce it outside.
You dont take a ferrari and drive it like a prius..
If it's your main car and you still need to commute to work, you're going to have to drive the Ferrari in traffic sometimes.
If we are 0-6 or even 1-5 or some horrible record, in a season going nowhere. Do we trade Barkley? We cannot POSSIBLY extend him with an offensive line as poorus as ours, you are just burning money that we need to put elsewhere.
What do you do in that scenario?
Bottomline, is Barkley plays well, you pay him well. If they can't come to an agreement on an extension, let him play out the option year (which is guaranteed). If you still can't come to an agreement on an extension you tag him. On the other hand, if plays poorly, you move on.
There were plenty of instances where his offensive line was banged up over those years and Zeke still went nuts. He was a perfect fit for what Garrett wants to do. McCarthy on the other hand does not utilize running backs in nearly the same fashion. Just reference those packer teams for how the position was used.
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Yes he should get those tough 3 to 4 yards, but youbalso dont want to take away his ability to create something out of nothing..
You dont take a ferrari and drive it like a prius..
He's doing that himself by being a predictable runner. Show him a clogged up tackle box and he will always want to bounce it outside.
No one is going to change who he is. Why are people advocating for this. This is the type of player he is, you are not changing him. Blame this organization for not building a balanced Run attack.
BB has over the years jettisoned big name, star players for $$$ reasons.
SB is a talented back BUT, I do not see him ever being the Gold Jacket pick DG drooled over and his eventual cost (considering how much money we have spent elsewhere) , I could easily see him moved.
BUT- I am not ready to give up on the season yet!
The more prudent bottom-line approach should be all marketable assets that are not deemed part of a core to rebuild should be considered as an option to trade.
Even the play sunday, he got the tough yards because Gates and Bredeson were shoving him forward climbing on his back.
I like him, but there are things he could improve on. Tiki Barber wasn't a finished product either. He needed to learn to not fumble, and also be a much more patient runner than he was. Change isn't necessarily a negative.
Even the play sunday, he got the tough yards because Gates and Bredeson were shoving him forward climbing on his back.
I like him, but there are things he could improve on. Tiki Barber wasn't a finished product either. He needed to learn to not fumble, and also be a much more patient runner than he was. Change isn't necessarily a negative.
Does he not get the tough yards because he isn't powerful/strong enough? Does he not want to get hit? A combination of both? Something els perhaps?
That was OJ's point. He doesn't have to do that all the time to break off big runs. The opportunities will still present themselves if he's moving the chains with moderate yard runs.
That was OJ's point. He doesn't have to do that all the time to break off big runs. The opportunities will still present themselves if he's moving the chains with moderate yard runs.
That is certainly a fair post Greg, thanks.
this offense is not made for dancing.
and if they want him to dance and probe they need to get Jones involved in the running game more.
it would be nice to see a creative passing game with him- if that is the best way to get him into space.
this offense is not made for dancing.
and if they want him to dance and probe they need to get Jones involved in the running game more.
it would be nice to see a creative passing game with him- if that is the best way to get him into space.
Hitdog, I don't think Barkley would have danced as much with the blocking that Gallman got, which makes me think that perhaps teams treat the Giants differently with Barkley. I think a few fans were wondering what the run game would have looked last year with that kind of blocking with Barkley in the backfield. That does not seem unreasonable to me, although the point still remains that Barkley needs to grind it out more.
You dont take a ferrari and drive it like a prius..
Blame Gettlemen for buying a Ferrari when you don't have the luxury to afford one.
this offense is not made for dancing.
and if they want him to dance and probe they need to get Jones involved in the running game more.
it would be nice to see a creative passing game with him- if that is the best way to get him into space.
I am absolutely perplexed at why Jones isn't getting 5-7 designed runs per game. The only things I can think of are:
1. His fumbling issues are something they don't want to test
2. They are worried about an injury
3. Garrett is in over his head without an elite OL
I suspect its a combination of the above but #2 would annoy me if true because Jones needs to be an impact player and if he isn't, he might as well be injured. They can't coach/gameplan scared for injuries and nows the time to go all in.
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hit holes hard and had a productive 2020 season. this line blocks that style well.
this offense is not made for dancing.
and if they want him to dance and probe they need to get Jones involved in the running game more.
it would be nice to see a creative passing game with him- if that is the best way to get him into space.
I am absolutely perplexed at why Jones isn't getting 5-7 designed runs per game. The only things I can think of are:
1. His fumbling issues are something they don't want to test
2. They are worried about an injury
3. Garrett is in over his head without an elite OL
I suspect its a combination of the above but #2 would annoy me if true because Jones needs to be an impact player and if he isn't, he might as well be injured. They can't coach/gameplan scared for injuries and nows the time to go all in.
It also would open up the game for Barkley
Hate to say it but Zeke is a better all around back
Hate to say it but Zeke is a better all around back
Zeke has been but what would Barkley do behind an all time great offensive line?
Zeke had a terrible line and sucked
He just played his first game in a year. FFS he barely played in his first game. What, 29 offensive snaps? That's not even half the reps and he didn't really get any work with the offense in camp or preseason. He's trying to get in sync, football shape, and acclimate back to game speed.
And then tonight will be more of the same. If you didn't temper your expectations for Saquon greatly for the first two or three weeks of this season, you don't have any clue of what you're talking about and really don't have a worthwhile opinion. It was completely obvious there was going to be a ramp up period, not just in reps but in offensive cohesion and integration, and simply knocking off the rust. He's going to make a lot of you look extremely dumb pretty soon.
Peppers too.
Everything that has been said above about Elliot and the line he had in Dallas is true. But what hasn't been said and is also true is that Elliot was a physical punishing RB in his prime. Not a ballet dancer behind the line of scrimmage.
Elliot is already in the top 100 all time in the NFL in rushing attempts with 1424. He's got 12 million guaranteed for 2022 so he's probably got this year and next in Dallas to try to get into the top 50 which is about 1850 attempts. Barkley is at 507 coming off ligament injuries to his ankle and knee. It will probably take almost 1500 to get into the top 100 soon. Who takes the over for Barkley?
Catastrophic draft pick making this entire era of ineptitude.
Even the play sunday, he got the tough yards because Gates and Bredeson were shoving him forward climbing on his back.
I like him, but there are things he could improve on. Tiki Barber wasn't a finished product either. He needed to learn to not fumble, and also be a much more patient runner than he was. Change isn't necessarily a negative.
Tiki's talent was his ability to read the offensive line and then change direction without losing speed. Not sure SB has the same ability.
The attached Valentine's Views has some interesting comments from Ottis Anderson. I think he is spot on, and also offers some good insights from his own experience:
"“When I was a rookie and I came into the league every play that I touched the ball I thought I could go the distance. Yeah, I was successful my first year (1,605 yards rushing, named an All-Pro), but the next year after that when people realized I was no longer a surprise it took me a long time to understand.
“What happens is when you have success making big plays out of nothing and you get to the point where every play you think you can go the distance, every play you try and you forget down and distance, you forget situations, all you want to do is make that big run. You have to learn that every play is not a big run but if you keep taking those 2 and 3-yard plays that big play will come.
“It just comes from him growing up, him understanding.”
Anderson said the Giants should “sit down and show him Wayne. Show him films of Wayne ... look at what Wayne did. Wayne took what the defense gave him and he didn’t try to get those home runs every time he touched the football, but you saw them come."
Do the Giants have a Saquon Barkley problem? - ( New Window )
Even the play sunday, he got the tough yards because Gates and Bredeson were shoving him forward climbing on his back.
So, without being pushed...he get's nothing...
...which is why he is looking for more on other occasions.
Everything that has been said above about Elliot and the line he had in Dallas is true. But what hasn't been said and is also true is that Elliot was a physical punishing RB in his prime. Not a ballet dancer behind the line of scrimmage.
Elliot is already in the top 100 all time in the NFL in rushing attempts with 1424. He's got 12 million guaranteed for 2022 so he's probably got this year and next in Dallas to try to get into the top 50 which is about 1850 attempts. Barkley is at 507 coming off ligament injuries to his ankle and knee. It will probably take almost 1500 to get into the top 100 soon. Who takes the over for Barkley?
I was a fan of Barkley in college and was excited we drafted him, but I agree with this. I said this a few years ago on here in other words. My comparison was Reggie Bush. Super athletic, could catch, not small by any means, but played small. Never hit the hole and was always trying to bounce outside for the home run. He never lived up to the hype and I fear Barkley is going down that same road. The knee injury certainly isn’t going to make him a more physical runner.
Unfortunately the disconnect between Front office and coaching ( which is the SINGLE biggest problem in this organization), has failed to use him that way. If the line stinks, then find creative ways to use his immense talent. Nope as Shurmur said “he’s got to get those tough 3-4 yards! Bull crap, that’s why this team continues to stink. If Garrett and Judge do the same thing with Barkley, then they are just as guilty as the previous staff at NOT putting players in the right position to succeed- something Judge promises every single week - just words?
Hi Jt, I have wondered how much of an impact Eli's ability to identify defenses pre-snap had on Barkley's production. This is not meant to criticize Jones; Eli, like his brother had a special skill.
Giants tried to compensate by sending Saquon out as a receiver on a majority of the pass plays but it was not that effective
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Think the big reason why Saquon numbers have dried up is the departure of Eli I would love to know how many times SB broke off huge runs based on Auibles and blocking calls coming from ELI reading the defense.
Hi Jt, I have wondered how much of an impact Eli's ability to identify defenses pre-snap had on Barkley's production. This is not meant to criticize Jones; Eli, like his brother had a special skill.
Eli was also in the league forever at that point. Regaradless, we saw the Broncos totally disguising looks, so it's not like there was much to be done (other than Garrett to call more aggressive plays to take advantage of their agressivenss moving post snap)
The big question then becomes
1) who is the first and second down back who can get you 4 YPC (especially to legitimize play action)
2) Is Barkley better in space than Toney, and which guy should get these touches
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In comment 15368499 jtfuoco said:
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Think the big reason why Saquon numbers have dried up is the departure of Eli I would love to know how many times SB broke off huge runs based on Auibles and blocking calls coming from ELI reading the defense.
Hi Jt, I have wondered how much of an impact Eli's ability to identify defenses pre-snap had on Barkley's production. This is not meant to criticize Jones; Eli, like his brother had a special skill.
Eli was also in the league forever at that point. Regaradless, we saw the Broncos totally disguising looks, so it's not like there was much to be done (other than Garrett to call more aggressive plays to take advantage of their agressivenss moving post snap)
Zeke, Jt and I were speaking more generally about Barkley, not just the bronco game. Although, I am guessing teams had to work a bit harder to disguise their defense pre-snap for a Manning than a Jones.
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Yes he should get those tough 3 to 4 yards, but youbalso dont want to take away his ability to create something out of nothing..
You dont take a ferrari and drive it like a prius..
He's doing that himself by being a predictable runner. Show him a clogged up tackle box and he will always want to bounce it outside.
A clogged tackle box so he should just run into the asses of his chronically underachieving linemen?