Yeah, show sucks, but had it on in the background while I'm doing some work. Not exact, but pretty much said what most of us have been saying all along. The most archaic offensive scheme in the NFL by far. Same offense for the last 15 years from Garrett, no innovation, not putting his players in a position to win. Watching tape of the Giants is painful and he feels bad for the players. Said if there is no improvement after tonight he should be fired immediately.
Bingo.
And of course the sample size is that small! That's the whole fucking point of this thread you nitwits! Garrett doesn't do anything towards DJ's strenghts.
stop touting Jones' arm. It isn't very good. Did you even watch Brees when he first came into the league. You sound like you only watched him since 2015.
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ball thrower up until 2018 when his arm started to crap on him by seasons end.
And of course the sample size is that small! That's the whole fucking point of this thread you nitwits! Garrett doesn't do anything towards DJ's strenghts.
stop touting Jones' arm. It isn't very good. Did you even watch Brees when he first came into the league. You sound like you only watched him since 2015.
Brees never had a strong arm, and I was the one here pointing it out he was starting to lase it late in the year circa 17 or 18 and it got earlier every year. Brees never had the arm strength that DJ did and became great through years of experience, touch, and accuracy. DJ could use some work on the underneath stuff, and a touch on the intermediate, but his deep ball is tremendous.
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In comment 15369001 Zeke's Alibi said:
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ball thrower up until 2018 when his arm started to crap on him by seasons end.
And of course the sample size is that small! That's the whole fucking point of this thread you nitwits! Garrett doesn't do anything towards DJ's strenghts.
stop touting Jones' arm. It isn't very good. Did you even watch Brees when he first came into the league. You sound like you only watched him since 2015.
Brees never had a strong arm, and I was the one here pointing it out he was starting to lase it late in the year circa 17 or 18 and it got earlier every year. Brees never had the arm strength that DJ did and became great through years of experience, touch, and accuracy. DJ could use some work on the underneath stuff, and a touch on the intermediate, but his deep ball is tremendous.
Brees had an excellent arm and quite good arm strength into his mid-30s. He was a better deep ball thrower than Jones will ever be.
Jones does not throw a tremendous deep ball. he is good at certain deep stuff, yes, but there are at least 12 QBs with better deep ball ability than Daniel Jones.
One is a HOF QB. With elite football IQ.
One is a HOF QB. With elite football IQ.
Yeah, but he didn't get there overnight. Every year you play, the football IQ goes up. These older QBs stick around in the league now because of the protections physically even with greatly diminished arm strength. I use him as an example, because DJ is a touch and accuracy thrower, not as good as Brees, but he also has a stronger arm.
One is a HOF QB. With elite football IQ.
Let's say you're right
Garrett=Payton?
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On Brees vs Jones arm strength.
One is a HOF QB. With elite football IQ.
Let's say you're right
Garrett=Payton?
One's a brilliant offensive mind that takes advantage of all his QBs strenghts, and the other can't. Which is the point of the thread.
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On Brees vs Jones arm strength.
One is a HOF QB. With elite football IQ.
Yeah, but he didn't get there overnight. Every year you play, the football IQ goes up. These older QBs stick around in the league now because of the protections physically even with greatly diminished arm strength. I use him as an example, because DJ is a touch and accuracy thrower, not as good as Brees, but he also has a stronger arm.
Drew Brees’ third full season as a starter he threw 27 touchdowns and 7 interceptions. You have faith that Jones puts up those type of numbers this year? He didn’t have Sean Payton in that year. Drew Brees would have been a very good quarterback without Sean Payton. Maybe not as prolific but there’s no career arc comparison between Jones and Brees.
If you can see that every DC can see that too. Which makes completing those deep shots much harder. The top offenses in the league attack downfield in an unpredictable manner. It doesnt matter what the down and istance is when the play starts, it matters when the play ends.
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In comment 15369020 ajr2456 said:
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On Brees vs Jones arm strength.
One is a HOF QB. With elite football IQ.
Let's say you're right
Garrett=Payton?
One's a brilliant offensive mind that takes advantage of all his QBs strenghts, and the other can't. Which is the point of the thread.
If Sean Payton was the coach of the Giants, Daniel Jones wouldn't be our QB.
If Sean Payton was the coach of the Giants, Daniel Jones wouldn't be our QB.
Doesn't the QB of the Saints have the record for most Ints in a season? Massive football knowledge and moxie there
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In comment 15369034 Zeke's Alibi said:
If Sean Payton was the coach of the Giants, Daniel Jones wouldn't be our QB.
Doesn't the QB of the Saints have the record for most Ints in a season? Massive football knowledge and moxie there
He also threw for 5000 yards and 33 tds that year. Jones hasn’t sniffed those numbers. Would the Saints trade Winston for Jones straight up? No
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In comment 15369034 Zeke's Alibi said:
If Sean Payton was the coach of the Giants, Daniel Jones wouldn't be our QB.
Doesn't the QB of the Saints have the record for most Ints in a season? Massive football knowledge and moxie there
I'm not a Winston guy, but he's a much more talented passer than Jones.
Drew Brees’ third full season as a starter he threw 27 touchdowns and 7 interceptions. You have faith that Jones puts up those type of numbers this year? He didn’t have Sean Payton in that year. Drew Brees would have been a very good quarterback without Sean Payton. Maybe not as prolific but there’s no career arc comparison between Jones and Brees.
In this offense? I'm not so sure, which once again, is the point of the thread. Garrett seems to be stuck in the past where down and distance matters as much. We run the ball too much on first down and we don't take shots at all at the expense of bad plays or zero gainers. It's a relic. I'm hoping the light goes on because there's definetly pressure there. I'm not sure Kitchens is the answer either considering his stint in Cleveland, but at least the one game we saw from him last year showed more modern concepts.
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In comment 15369032 Zeke's Alibi said:
Drew Brees’ third full season as a starter he threw 27 touchdowns and 7 interceptions. You have faith that Jones puts up those type of numbers this year? He didn’t have Sean Payton in that year. Drew Brees would have been a very good quarterback without Sean Payton. Maybe not as prolific but there’s no career arc comparison between Jones and Brees.
In this offense? I'm not so sure, which once again, is the point of the thread. Garrett seems to be stuck in the past where down and distance matters as much. We run the ball too much on first down and we don't take shots at all at the expense of bad plays or zero gainers. It's a relic. I'm hoping the light goes on because there's definetly pressure there. I'm not sure Kitchens is the answer either considering his stint in Cleveland, but at least the one game we saw from him last year showed more modern concepts.
Brees did that with 50 less passing attempts than Jones that season on one of the top 6 rushing teams in terms of attempts and yards, but sure buddy.
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In comment 15369032 Zeke's Alibi said:
Drew Brees’ third full season as a starter he threw 27 touchdowns and 7 interceptions. You have faith that Jones puts up those type of numbers this year? He didn’t have Sean Payton in that year. Drew Brees would have been a very good quarterback without Sean Payton. Maybe not as prolific but there’s no career arc comparison between Jones and Brees.
In this offense? I'm not so sure, which once again, is the point of the thread. Garrett seems to be stuck in the past where down and distance matters as much. We run the ball too much on first down and we don't take shots at all at the expense of bad plays or zero gainers. It's a relic. I'm hoping the light goes on because there's definetly pressure there. I'm not sure Kitchens is the answer either considering his stint in Cleveland, but at least the one game we saw from him last year showed more modern concepts.
C'mon Zeke.. stop comparing Daniel Jones to Drew Brees. You have no basis for this comparison. it is not good enough to say Drew Brees once sucked (yr 2) and so did Jones, therefore they are similar. Daniel Jones is not Drew Brees, only with a stronger arm.
And to the point of the thread, QBs overcome their coordinators ALL THE TIME. If Jones can't figure out what works in this system, or can't appeal to the coach for what will work for him, then he is not the guy. He's not the only QB who ever had a dud OC. Stop making excuses for subpar play. Don't you want the Giants to have an elite QB? Don't you want us to have a talent like Herbert? Why do the Giants always have to overcome with inferior talent?
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In comment 15369048 Producer said:
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In comment 15369034 Zeke's Alibi said:
If Sean Payton was the coach of the Giants, Daniel Jones wouldn't be our QB.
Doesn't the QB of the Saints have the record for most Ints in a season? Massive football knowledge and moxie there
He also threw for 5000 yards and 33 tds that year. Jones hasn’t sniffed those numbers. Would the Saints trade Winston for Jones straight up? No
Fair enough. But he also had offensive genius Bruce Arians as his coach and running the offense. Think he won the Super Bowl last year
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In comment 15369064 Thunderstruck27 said:
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In comment 15369048 Producer said:
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In comment 15369034 Zeke's Alibi said:
If Sean Payton was the coach of the Giants, Daniel Jones wouldn't be our QB.
Doesn't the QB of the Saints have the record for most Ints in a season? Massive football knowledge and moxie there
He also threw for 5000 yards and 33 tds that year. Jones hasn’t sniffed those numbers. Would the Saints trade Winston for Jones straight up? No
Fair enough. But he also had offensive genius Bruce Arians as his coach and running the offense. Think he won the Super Bowl last year
Or maybe Winston has always been a more talented passer than Jones.
We went out and spend all this money on Golladay and we don't take any shots down the field with him until it's essentially garbage time. Garrett needs to do better, this isn't crazy talk. The whole NFL is talking about this and ironically it's our QBs best strength. So of course it's limiting his potential, which once again, is the point of the thread. Onwards and upwards!
We went out and spend all this money on Golladay and we don't take any shots down the field with him until it's essentially garbage time. Garrett needs to do better, this isn't crazy talk. The whole NFL is talking about this and ironically it's our QBs best strength. So of course it's limiting his potential, which once again, is the point of the thread. Onwards and upwards!
Well I agree, of course Golladay needs more targets. This might be a problem Jones needs to get over. Golladay doesn't get open, generally, rather his game is he wins contested catches. Jones might be shy to throw to a guy who is covered. We'll see what happens tonight. I expect he is going to force a bit to Golladay. But for that to work, Jones needs to throw to the right shoulder.
One of the big differences btwn Brees and jones is Brees was a great anticipation passer and Jones is a see it / throw it passer. For a guy who you say is a touch passer, not being a very good anticipation passer might be a fatal liability.
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and Dilfer and the like ... how come these shitty NFL QBs know so much after they quit playing?
I understand all the components of a good golf swing and how to help someone get better - doesn't mean I can physically execute them myself
Don't sell yourself short. You most definitely can execute a golf swing.
He was gifted. You're comparing Corollas to McLarens.
All you guys complain about is how guys aren’t wide open enough. The video thread from the other day is a perfect example. That was a tight window that he should have thrown at and completed, but he wasn’t wide open enough to you. Which is it?
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Is that serious, ton of stats out there that say differently. In fact the biggest coaching point last year was to dial it back a bit. They gave him a guy that is perfect for him, but Garrett can't seem to get him the ball. DJ is clearly not a guy that is shy about taking shots, but can't take em, if you don't call em. Which once again, is the point of the thread. This isn't just Orlovsky either, he's getting blasted league wide, and yet your still here trying to pin it on the QB. Big brain move I tell ya.
All you guys complain about is how guys aren’t wide open enough. The video thread from the other day is a perfect example. That was a tight window that he should have thrown at and completed, but he wasn’t wide open enough to you. Which is it?
There's a difference between throwing contested catches in man coverage and scheming guys open vs zone. Garrett's offense is easily defendable by many zone concepts and it actively makes it risky because defenders can gamble more (which is why we are so reliant on getting the run game going which was very disappointing we couldn't last week - hopefully that improves tonight with the changes)
The goalposts have been moved to Tom’s River.
The goalposts have been moved to Tom’s River.
Are you thick? The whole point with Jason Garrett's offense is everything needs to be perfect. The Cowboys had extremely talented offenses in his time there. We don't have that luxury, we have a below average line and above average skill players. Garrett needs to learn passing concepts that work when the run game ISN"T working. The whole point of this thread is Garrett is doing very little to play to Jones's strengths. It's all just sticks concepts. You notice how the Broncos had people streaking wide open all over the field against our zones even without their run game really working? When the hell have we ever seen that from Garrett?
1st: -6 yards reverse to Toney
2nd: -2 yards Booker up the middle
3rd: incompletion 6 yards to Shepard
4th: intentional delay of game followed by punt for touchback
Pathetic dogshit. A first possession to set the tone for the season.
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Has never thrown less than 22 TDS or more than 13 INTs.
The goalposts have been moved to Tom’s River.
Are you thick? The whole point with Jason Garrett's offense is everything needs to be perfect. The Cowboys had extremely talented offenses in his time there. We don't have that luxury, we have a below average line and above average skill players. Garrett needs to learn passing concepts that work when the run game ISN"T working. The whole point of this thread is Garrett is doing very little to play to Jones's strengths. It's all just sticks concepts. You notice how the Broncos had people streaking wide open all over the field against our zones even without their run game really working? When the hell have we ever seen that from Garrett?
It’s not Garrets offense that needs everything to be perfect it’s the QB. You’re so dug in on Jones being the guy that you can’t see that. If the QB can’t execute the simple sticks concepts the offense won’t go far.
You really think that if it was simple as call more deep plays that Garrett and Judge wouldn’t just do it? We have spent resources on offensive line, Barkley, Slayton, Golladay, Tate etc but still not talented enough - that’s a damning indictment on the GM and QB.
Maybe Garrett should just call the touchdown play.
1st: -6 yards reverse to Toney
2nd: -2 yards Booker up the middle
3rd: incompletion 6 yards to Shepard
4th: intentional delay of game followed by punt for touchback
Pathetic dogshit. A first possession to set the tone for the season.
I hate to agree with Terps...but this is it in a nutshell. Shitty scheme, shitty play calls, shitty execution. Result...shit
First Shurmur was the problem so we got rid of him. Gotta fix the oline, so we did that. Needs more weapons! Did that. The offense is still bad.
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In comment 15369197 ajr2456 said:
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Has never thrown less than 22 TDS or more than 13 INTs.
The goalposts have been moved to Tom’s River.
Are you thick? The whole point with Jason Garrett's offense is everything needs to be perfect. The Cowboys had extremely talented offenses in his time there. We don't have that luxury, we have a below average line and above average skill players. Garrett needs to learn passing concepts that work when the run game ISN"T working. The whole point of this thread is Garrett is doing very little to play to Jones's strengths. It's all just sticks concepts. You notice how the Broncos had people streaking wide open all over the field against our zones even without their run game really working? When the hell have we ever seen that from Garrett?
It’s not Garrets offense that needs everything to be perfect it’s the QB. You’re so dug in on Jones being the guy that you can’t see that. If the QB can’t execute the simple sticks concepts the offense won’t go far.
You really think that if it was simple as call more deep plays that Garrett and Judge wouldn’t just do it? We have spent resources on offensive line, Barkley, Slayton, Golladay, Tate etc but still not talented enough - that’s a damning indictment on the GM and QB.
Maybe Garrett should just call the touchdown play.
Why do we run the ball so much on first down? Especially when the run game isn't working? That just isn't modern-day football. Why do we insist on running all these stick concepts when that isn't really playing to your QB's strenghts? It's fine when the run game is going and they are forced to go man, but gets dicey when they sit in zone.
The whole NFL is killing Garrett (shit I heard them on Pat McAfee's show grilling the guy, which goes to show you what the players think of him) and many are saying Jones is the goods, but YOU can't seem to reconcile that. It's the average fan at home that thinks DJ is a laughingstock because he's been middling overall in primetime on the way to a bunch of losses for the most part and tripped on an 80-yard run. And the turnovers. All I hear about is the CAREER turnovers and not what we've seen overall. He had one turnover last week, not great, not terrible. The problem is we don't call an offense that actually gives you explosive plays UNLESS the run game is going. Can't operate like that in NFL.
I don't expect Garrett to change his ways, so I"m clinging onto the hope with Gates next to Thomas we actually run the ball behind them and can make his offense work. If not, I don't have much hope.
First Shurmur was the problem so we got rid of him. Gotta fix the oline, so we did that. Needs more weapons! Did that. The offense is still bad.
Did anyone ever accuse Shurmur of stifling the offense? He was a terrible game manager
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Garrett can not be a great coordinator and Jones can also not be a good QB.
First Shurmur was the problem so we got rid of him. Gotta fix the oline, so we did that. Needs more weapons! Did that. The offense is still bad.
Did anyone ever accuse Shurmur of stifling the offense? He was a terrible game manager
The offense wasn’t anything to write home about. They were under 20 points in half of Shurmurs games here.
You’re ignoring the point. They’ve changed everything around Jones and he still has the same issues. And you guys keep making the same excuses, “now we have to change this!”
It’s the end of the Eli era all over again.
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Shurmur the HC was the problem.
You’re ignoring the point. They’ve changed everything around Jones and he still has the same issues. And you guys keep making the same excuses, “now we have to change this!”
It’s the end of the Eli era all over again.
You need to wake up dude. Garrett is getting eviscerated league wide because of how hard he makes it on the QB and yet you are saying it's DJ. I'm going to take a wild guess and say you hated the pick at the time. I had no idea what to make of the pick and really did question his arm strength until I saw him throwing in camp. Last year I saw what they were doing with him, but wanted to see it click by end of year or move on. I saw that in the second half of the TB game.
Now it's clear our offensive scheme absolutely needs the run game or we are sunk. Why? Because we insist on running the ball on first down all the time and we don't have passing concepts that really work well against disguised zones. It was telling when Kitchens took over, it was like a breath of fresh air (and I honestly don't think much of the guy). Use the pass to set up the run, especially with a RB as talented as Saquon in space. We seem to be intent on doing things the opposite.
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In comment 15369265 Zeke's Alibi said:
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Shurmur the HC was the problem.
You’re ignoring the point. They’ve changed everything around Jones and he still has the same issues. And you guys keep making the same excuses, “now we have to change this!”
It’s the end of the Eli era all over again.
You need to wake up dude. Garrett is getting eviscerated league wide because of how hard he makes it on the QB and yet you are saying it's DJ. I'm going to take a wild guess and say you hated the pick at the time. I had no idea what to make of the pick and really did question his arm strength until I saw him throwing in camp. Last year I saw what they were doing with him, but wanted to see it click by end of year or move on. I saw that in the second half of the TB game.
Now it's clear our offensive scheme absolutely needs the run game or we are sunk. Why? Because we insist on running the ball on first down all the time and we don't have passing concepts that really work well against disguised zones. It was telling when Kitchens took over, it was like a breath of fresh air (and I honestly don't think much of the guy). Use the pass to set up the run, especially with a RB as talented as Saquon in space. We seem to be intent on doing things the opposite.
Eviscerated league wide or by the media? Those are two different things. It’s funny how you don’t take the media’s word when they have bad things to say about Jones.
Nobody on this thread said Garrett is doing a good job. But he’s not the only problem here.
I’ll continue to trust my instincts and eyes - which have been right the whole Gettleman era, and the people around the league I talk to. You can continue to be wrong if you wish, but you can still get out of Jones’ Fox hole before the grenade explodes.
Need to keep giving these WRs opportunities to make plays.
If you throw 1-2 deep shots per game, it's going to hurt more when players don't make catches, and it's unfair to expect perfection.
Just play football. If they lose, at least they go out swinging and know they gave themselves a chance to win. but whatever offense that was on Sunday was worse than watching a funeral on tape delay.
1st: -6 yards reverse to Toney
2nd: -2 yards Booker up the middle
3rd: incompletion 6 yards to Shepard
4th: intentional delay of game followed by punt for touchback
Pathetic dogshit. A first possession to set the tone for the season.
This post makes no sense. Especially with the marked improvement in the O last night.
What's your point?
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In comment 15369048 Producer said:
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In comment 15369034 Zeke's Alibi said:
If Sean Payton was the coach of the Giants, Daniel Jones wouldn't be our QB.
Doesn't the QB of the Saints have the record for most Ints in a season? Massive football knowledge and moxie there
I'm not a Winston guy, but he's a much more talented passer than Jones.
Gosh