Yeah, show sucks, but had it on in the background while I'm doing some work. Not exact, but pretty much said what most of us have been saying all along. The most archaic offensive scheme in the NFL by far. Same offense for the last 15 years from Garrett, no innovation, not putting his players in a position to win. Watching tape of the Giants is painful and he feels bad for the players. Said if there is no improvement after tonight he should be fired immediately.
It's a good offense when you have all the pieces, but we aren't invested like that. And I do like him as a playcaller, but his scheme is killing me and you are starting to hear that around the league everywhere. He's the wrong coordinator for this team IMO. We don't have that, not thrilled with what Kitchens has done, but if we lose tonight, and we see calls for Garrett's head will be loud.
If safeties are going to crash before Saquon touches the ball we need to open up the deep sell play-action or start running read option. Live with the sacks on the playaction but it will open up big pays for Saquon as well with guys cheating. Be more aggressive, we have the pieces now and its up to the defense to lock down considering how invested we are.
We need more threads like these...
Of course, I’m merely just thinking out loud. It is tough to judge Garrett seeing that so many key players missed practically all of preseason and the OL is going through a major shuffle.
I'm not sure how it changes, Garrett is who he is, but he has had top 10 offenses before. Guys need to execute.
I understand all the components of a good golf swing and how to help someone get better - doesn't mean I can physically execute them myself
I'm not sure how it changes, Garrett is who he is, but he has had top 10 offenses before. Guys need to execute.
section. I recall Norv's offense being productive in multiple stops across the league as an OC. I am not sure his offense required HOF'ers to be successful. Although this is not a defense of Garrett.
Because they understand the mechanics of the position, playbooks, coaching strategies, and defenses. Even if they weren't very good NFL QB's, they still have to know their shit to play at that level.
This.
section. I recall Norv's offense being productive in multiple stops across the league as an OC. I am not sure his offense required HOF'ers to be successful. Although this is not a defense of Garrett.
You're probably right, I'm likely letting his struggles as a HC influence how I view his offenses. He had one of the best O's in the league in Washington with Brad Johnson at QB, so he must have been doing something right.
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section. I recall Norv's offense being productive in multiple stops across the league as an OC. I am not sure his offense required HOF'ers to be successful. Although this is not a defense of Garrett.
You're probably right, I'm likely letting his struggles as a HC influence how I view his offenses. He had one of the best O's in the league in Washington with Brad Johnson at QB, so he must have been doing something right.
He certainly was not cut out to be a HC.
Regardless, I'm about removing all of these excuses right now. So jettison Garrett. And bring in another fall gu...errr...coordinator.
We need more threads like these...
OK, you got me to laugh..
The point of these shows is to say something that will get people talking. It is to provide a different narrative than the broadly accepted one, because nobody tunes in to here a take they have already heard and agree with.
The narrative is that Jones and the offensive line suck. That isn't wrong, but nobody is tuning into that. So what do you do? You blame the failure on something else.
Do I think Garret is a great offensive coordinator? No I sure don't. Do I think he is one of the main culprits to this offense being bad year in and year out? No. I don't see many teams with bad offensive lines and below average QBs moving the ball effectively.
Garret may be part of the problem, but he is certainly not the primary problem.
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and Dilfer and the like ... how come these shitty NFL QBs know so much after they quit playing?
Because they understand the mechanics of the position, playbooks, coaching strategies, and defenses. Even if they weren't very good NFL QB's, they still have to know their shit to play at that level.
Some of the worst baseball takes/commentary come from former players who got a tv/radio gig.
You realize changing your opinion based on new information is what smart people do. Didn’t like him before the draft, but has since changed his opinion. I can’t believe our political establishment has convinced the general public that “flip flopping” is an absolute negative.
Regardless, I'm about removing all of these excuses right now. So jettison Garrett. And bring in another fall gu...errr...coordinator.
Your continued stance is tiresome at best. Not many offenses run four fucking curls 8 yards from the LOS. Give me a fucking break.
Yeah I listened to that. He definitely is not high on Jones, said the offense isn't helping him at all (nor is the OL) but also said he needs the right offense to be a Kirk Cousins level QB. He still likes Darnold better.
Id agree his concepts are dated and on the opposite side of the spectrum from San Francisco and LA.
However, I’ve come around to the point that Dan Duggan has made repeatedly which is that Garrett (while running a totally unimaginative offense) is ultimately doing what Joe Judge wants. Judge thinks the Giants can win games with a “Take what the defense gives you” approach that doesn’t really focus on Daniel Jones’ few strengths.
Skill set not skillet, sorry for typo
"The play for Toney was part of the script that coaches devise leading into the game, so clearly the Giants believed it would work. But the Giants didn’t execute and the Broncos weren’t fooled.
Part of the problem was that Toney essentially came onto the field wearing a sandwich board that said, “We’re going to be creative now.” Creativity needs to be a fabric of the offense to be effective rather than having a designated player for gadget plays."
Link - ( New Window )
Kitchens called the plays last year against Arizona. Like most other games, it was ugly.
I disagree with BW and Terps a lot because their positions are rigid and don’t even entertain any new info as having any baring on their positions.
Where Jones is concerned, they both think he’s a complete waste of time. That’s been their position from day 1.
Now, from the standpoint of being a top QB, I think we’ve seen enough now to feel that will never be. That’s accumulation of more info. However, I think we’ve also seen enough indications that given the right system, that emphasizes his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses, he could perform at a Cousins or Dalton level.
As far as the organization as a whole, available info tells me they are SPOT ON.
Some of the worst baseball takes/commentary come from former players who got a tv/radio gig.
No doubt, some guys just aren't cut out for the job, whether they don't come across well on screen and/or mic, or if producers get them to dumb it down too much. My point is that former marginal pros can be good announcers because of their experience, but it doesn't guarantee it.
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He was on the Michael Kay Show just yesterday saying how limited he is - he's been consistent with that opinion since draft night, as have most other folks (except Trent Dilfer).
Yeah I listened to that. He definitely is not high on Jones, said the offense isn't helping him at all (nor is the OL) but also said he needs the right offense to be a Kirk Cousins level QB. He still likes Darnold better.
Exactly, both things can be true - DJ can be a limited QB who is held back by an unimaginative play caller.
I disagree with BW and Terps a lot because their positions are rigid and don’t even entertain any new info as having any baring on their positions.
Where Jones is concerned, they both think he’s a complete waste of time. That’s been their position from day 1.
Now, from the standpoint of being a top QB, I think we’ve seen enough now to feel that will never be. That’s accumulation of more info. However, I think we’ve also seen enough indications that given the right system, that emphasizes his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses, he could perform at a Cousins or Dalton level.
As far as the organization as a whole, available info tells me they are SPOT ON.
I mean my position on DJ has evolved since Day 1. At first I really questioned his arm strenght, but then saw him live. He takes heat off passes to throw with more touch. He doesn't have the strongest arm, but certainly not the worst. I saw what they did with him in the beginning of the year, but around week 5 he needed to start putting the pieces together by the end of the year or it was possible time to move on. A light went off in the second half of that Bucs game.
This year (so far) I see a solid QB who is trying to press because his team is getting the shit kicked out of it on both sides of the ball. And the worst we go down, the worst it gets, hopefully that gets better with experience. Garrett having an offense where everything needs to be perfect play after play after play isn't helping matters.
I was never a fan of the hire. To me it’s a classic Mara hire like so many others over the past decade of disappointment. Running this organization into the ground by hiring only familiar faces and people who have ties to this team from the past. I hope Judge has the freedom to fire him if he wants to and it isn’t a decision he has to get approval from Mara or Gettleman for, otherwise I fear Judge will go down with this ship as well.
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is changing your stance back and forth from week to week. Re/ evaluating is changing your position as you get more information. Somehow, the two have gotten merged in our society.
I disagree with BW and Terps a lot because their positions are rigid and don’t even entertain any new info as having any baring on their positions.
Where Jones is concerned, they both think he’s a complete waste of time. That’s been their position from day 1.
Now, from the standpoint of being a top QB, I think we’ve seen enough now to feel that will never be. That’s accumulation of more info. However, I think we’ve also seen enough indications that given the right system, that emphasizes his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses, he could perform at a Cousins or Dalton level.
As far as the organization as a whole, available info tells me they are SPOT ON.
I mean my position on DJ has evolved since Day 1. At first I really questioned his arm strenght, but then saw him live. He takes heat off passes to throw with more touch. He doesn't have the strongest arm, but certainly not the worst. I saw what they did with him in the beginning of the year, but around week 5 he needed to start putting the pieces together by the end of the year or it was possible time to move on. A light went off in the second half of that Bucs game.
This year (so far) I see a solid QB who is trying to press because his team is getting the shit kicked out of it on both sides of the ball. And the worst we go down, the worst it gets, hopefully that gets better with experience. Garrett having an offense where everything needs to be perfect play after play after play isn't helping matters.
You should publish this Daniel Jones fan fiction; at least get paid for it.
A solid QB who is just pressing because everyone else stinks? Good grief.
Garrett’s offense doesn’t need every play to be perfect, but Jones needs every play to be perfect to be successful. Except that’s not the reality of the NFL. Open by half a step is pretty open in the NFL.
I disagree with BW and Terps a lot because their positions are rigid and don’t even entertain any new info as having any baring on their positions.
Where Jones is concerned, they both think he’s a complete waste of time. That’s been their position from day 1.
Now, from the standpoint of being a top QB, I think we’ve seen enough now to feel that will never be. That’s accumulation of more info. However, I think we’ve also seen enough indications that given the right system, that emphasizes his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses, he could perform at a Cousins or Dalton level.
As far as the organization as a whole, available info tells me they are SPOT ON.
What indications have you seen from Jones that he will be as good as Cousins? Cousins is not elite but he was 8th in QB Rate last season, he was 4th in 2019. If one was being objective you would say Jones is on the Trubisky track, not the Cousins track.
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is changing your stance back and forth from week to week. Re/ evaluating is changing your position as you get more information. Somehow, the two have gotten merged in our society.
I disagree with BW and Terps a lot because their positions are rigid and don’t even entertain any new info as having any baring on their positions.
Where Jones is concerned, they both think he’s a complete waste of time. That’s been their position from day 1.
Now, from the standpoint of being a top QB, I think we’ve seen enough now to feel that will never be. That’s accumulation of more info. However, I think we’ve also seen enough indications that given the right system, that emphasizes his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses, he could perform at a Cousins or Dalton level.
As far as the organization as a whole, available info tells me they are SPOT ON.
I mean my position on DJ has evolved since Day 1. At first I really questioned his arm strenght, but then saw him live. He takes heat off passes to throw with more touch. He doesn't have the strongest arm, but certainly not the worst. I saw what they did with him in the beginning of the year, but around week 5 he needed to start putting the pieces together by the end of the year or it was possible time to move on. A light went off in the second half of that Bucs game.
This year (so far) I see a solid QB who is trying to press because his team is getting the shit kicked out of it on both sides of the ball. And the worst we go down, the worst it gets, hopefully that gets better with experience. Garrett having an offense where everything needs to be perfect play after play after play isn't helping matters.
Daniel Jones does not have great or even good arm strength. He has passable arm strength. There are throws he cannot make that Herbert, Rodgers, Stafford and Mahomes, for instance, can make with regularity. If Jones had moxie, football smarts, ability to read and react, make quick decisions, and accuracy, then his arm strength wouldn't be an issue at all.
Daniel Jones was 12/14 with 214 yards, 1TD and 15.2 y/a when we had 2+ pass catchers running 15 yard+ routes.
Daniel Jones was 10/23 with 53 yards, 2 sacks and 2.3y/a with 1 or less WR running a 15 yard+ route
Another one - the Giants ran 11 personnel on 75% snaps. Which is high but understandable with Engram out, however they passed the 80%+ in this formation.
That's ridiculous, we're predictable. By deduction, I assume we were doing most of our running out of heavy sets. We're way overweight passing in passing looks and running in run looks. With no play-action or zone-read and redundant shallow routes was it any wonder that the Broncos safeties were able to crash the line when we wanted to run or clamp down on the short passing game when we went to throw? They weren't being challenged or forced into any sort of post snap decisions.
6/6 130 yards 1 td and 21.6 YPA w/2+ 15 yards or moreroutes
6/12 with 24 yards 1 sack and 2.0 y/a w/ 1+ 15 yards or less routes