Cutting Zeitler (-12M ‘21), and re-doing Solder (-7M ‘21, -14M ‘22) saved the Giants 33M over two years.
The Giants then didn’t reallocate any guaranteed money to this unit until they traded for Price, with a guaranteed salary of 2M.
I still cannot believe the Giants didn’t add a legitimate starting interior lineman with any of the savings from those moves.
With one injury, the Giants went from a presumed starting group of:
Thomas/Lemieux/Gates/Hernandez/Peart to
Thomas/Gates/Price/Hernandez/Solder
So we are going down the same rabbit hole every week. Just what this place needs - redundant, perpetual posts.
So we are going down the same rabbit hole every week. Just what this place needs - redundant, perpetual posts.
I think you’ve misread this post, as I am addressing the lack of investment in the offensive line.
If the topic is not to your liking, please feel free to move on, thanks!
Quote:
signing Golladay, Adoree Jackson, and a couple others.
So we are going down the same rabbit hole every week. Just what this place needs - redundant, perpetual posts.
I think you’ve misread this post, as I am addressing the lack of investment in the offensive line.
If the topic is not to your liking, please feel free to move on, thanks!
They have invested in the OL. You have a 2nd round pick in Hernandez, a first round pick in Thomas, a third round pick in Peart, a great deal in Gates, and a high priced FA in Solder. You can't keep sinking money/picks into one area. At some point there needs to be results. This regime is hanging their hat on these players improving with experience and coaching. Will it work? We don't know. Was it what most would have done? Probably not. But it is what it is so be patient and give them some time to see if if works. The pass blocking was actually pretty good regardless of the lack of time they actually practiced/played together. This will never be a finished product. Everything in the NFL is always a work in progress.
But I felt the 3 moves they made at end of camp were decent....
Zeitler was overpaid. Solder was overpaid. Getting rid of Zeitler was good because we can replace him with someone bad who makes less. Solder had to take less or lose his job in the NFL because he was so grossly overpaid.
This is "building the OLine" in the era of Gettleman. Might as well get some talent somewhere else with that money if you are getting this kind of performance from the line.
Quote:
signing Golladay, Adoree Jackson, and a couple others.
So we are going down the same rabbit hole every week. Just what this place needs - redundant, perpetual posts.
I think you’ve misread this post, as I am addressing the lack of investment in the offensive line.
If the topic is not to your liking, please feel free to move on, thanks!
I did not miss anything. You did. They signed other players and that is where the money went. No they chose not to re-invest in the line. They chose to try to fix other holes in the roster. Is there any question that WR was a problem? 2nd CB? TE? or the need to keep LW?
There are only so many $$. They chose to spend it in a different place than you would have.
Should they have chased Thuney and let LW leave? Pass on Golladay or Jackson?
Not that I would have been upset if they spent money on OL, but who was worth it?
Maybe things will gel - one game a season does not make - or maybe it'll remain a seriously flawed unit.
Those were all moves preceding this offseason.
You look at the secondary going into this offseason. They had a high priced free agent in Bradberry, a former number one acquired via trade in Peppers, a 2nd round pick in McKinney, and high priced free agent in Ryan.
Instead of waiting on Yiadom or Holmes to develop, they added a high priced starter.
The Giants chose to continue “sinking” money into the secondary with Jackson. What’s the philosophical difference there?
Exactly.
To the other points though, they didn't put any emphasis either via FA or the draft on this position. Unless Zach Fulton was that which I hope not. I'm hogmolly baffled.
I won't say the OL had a horrible 1st game. Just worried that moving one of the two better 'pieces' to a new position is not typical the day of a game.
yes, they put resources into the line, mostly with dismal or meh results. That doesn't mean you just keep trotting out a bad OL. You have to figure out why the execution of the plan is so bad (easier said than done), fix it, and keep putting resources in until you get it right.
Not that I would have been upset if they spent money on OL, but who was worth it?
I think you can easily argue Thuney would have been a better investment than Jackson.
Jackson has a track record of being a good, but injured corner.
Thuney is an All Pro alternate type guard, who’s been dynamite from the get go.
Quote:
In comment 15369091 section125 said:
Quote:
signing Golladay, Adoree Jackson, and a couple others.
So we are going down the same rabbit hole every week. Just what this place needs - redundant, perpetual posts.
I think you’ve misread this post, as I am addressing the lack of investment in the offensive line.
If the topic is not to your liking, please feel free to move on, thanks!
I did not miss anything. You did. They signed other players and that is where the money went. No they chose not to re-invest in the line. They chose to try to fix other holes in the roster. Is there any question that WR was a problem? 2nd CB? TE? or the need to keep LW?
There are only so many $$. They chose to spend it in a different place than you would have.
Should they have chased Thuney and let LW leave? Pass on Golladay or Jackson?
Not that I would have been upset if they spent money on OL, but who was worth it?
They should have passed on Golladay and Jackson both. Neither was a smart signing.
The reason threads like these feel repetitive is that smart posters like christian have been warning about this for months. Now, here we are.
The Gettleman era has been a slow motion car crash that BBI has been able to basically narrate. It would be sort of interesting if it weren't so frustrating as a fan.
Quote:
They have invested in the OL. You have a 2nd round pick in Hernandez, a first round pick in Thomas, a third round pick in Peart, a great deal in Gates, and a high priced FA in Solder. You can't keep sinking money/picks into one area.
Those were all moves preceding this offseason.
You look at the secondary going into this offseason. They had a high priced free agent in Bradberry, a former number one acquired via trade in Peppers, a 2nd round pick in McKinney, and high priced free agent in Ryan.
Instead of waiting on Yiadom or Holmes to develop, they added a high priced starter.
The Giants chose to continue “sinking” money into the secondary with Jackson. What’s the philosophical difference there?
The point is that the Giants invested in the OL. You can't pick and choose certain years. You have to look at it holistically. This isn't about DB or OL. This is about what was available. The Giants weren't in the corner market for a high priced FA but when Jackson became available they went after the talent. You also act like the Giants haven't brought in vets along the OL like Fulton who retired? Why is Yiadom any different tham Price? I fail to see your point.
I did not miss anything. You did. They signed other players and that is where the money went. No they chose not to re-invest in the line. They chose to try to fix other holes in the roster. Is there any question that WR was a problem? 2nd CB? TE? or the need to keep LW?
We could have lived without re-signing LW. I would have hedged by keeping Tomlinson, who ate up a lot of space with Lawrence, and used most of that money to sign Thuney or Linsey or both.
I'd feel a helluva lot better right now with an OL of:
Thomas, Thuney, Linsey, Gates, Slater.
Ooops. Sorry, I forgot we didn't draft Slater. ;)
But you get the point sans Slater...
Good call. What I intended to convey is the reshuffle was not only about injury, but about also about quality.
That one has Mara stench all over it. A free agent golden domer? It's like an open bar at an Irish wedding.
NFL free agency is what Chris Mara claims is his area of expertise. After all he wrote a newsletter almost 3 decades ago about them. A f**king newsletter.
12 million dollars well spent who needs a veteran guard anyway.
Quote:
In comment 15369091 section125 said:
Quote:
signing Golladay, Adoree Jackson, and a couple others.
So we are going down the same rabbit hole every week. Just what this place needs - redundant, perpetual posts.
I think you’ve misread this post, as I am addressing the lack of investment in the offensive line.
If the topic is not to your liking, please feel free to move on, thanks!
I did not miss anything. You did. They signed other players and that is where the money went. No they chose not to re-invest in the line. They chose to try to fix other holes in the roster. Is there any question that WR was a problem? 2nd CB? TE? or the need to keep LW?
There are only so many $$. They chose to spend it in a different place than you would have.
Should they have chased Thuney and let LW leave? Pass on Golladay or Jackson?
Not that I would have been upset if they spent money on OL, but who was worth it?
Section125 is accurate. The front office went in the above noted directions with their free agent signings instead of OL. And then they passed on all selecting an OL in the Draft. They concluded the OL unit they had was adequate and used the offseason to find/determine their reserves.
They made their bed with these decisions, it now they have to sleep in it.
Hopefully things go relatively smooth but if they don't maybe Leonard Williams, Adoree Jackson, Kenny Golladay, Kyle Rudolph, Kadarius Toney and Azeez Ojulari will play so outstanding that they will make up for the poor OL and more.
My point simple: the Giants saved money that was earmarked on the offensive line and invested it in another area. They gave Fulton zero guaranteed dollars.
Your view seems to be: at some point to let their offensive line investments play it out. I question why that shouldn’t pertain to the secondary?
Quote:
You also act like the Giants haven't brought in vets along the OL like Fulton who retired? Why is Yiadom any different tham Price? I fail to see your point.
My point simple: the Giants saved money that was earmarked on the offensive line and invested it in another area. They gave Fulton zero guaranteed dollars.
Your view seems to be: at some point to let their offensive line investments play it out. I question why that shouldn’t pertain to the secondary?
They brought in vets along the OL. They saw value along the OL. Not sure why you aren't getting this. There were rumors if we stayed at 11 we were taking Vera Tucker. We traded down and got another pick. If an OL was valued at that spot it made sense. The value was elsewhere. I don't think anybody truly believes they went into the season saying we are set anywhere. You are basically arguing for need over value. The same was said when we drafted Flowers and Pugh. We "addressed" the OL but they sucked. Well, Pugh wasn't terrible but he was always injured and never great. They were flat out need picks over value. So, what would you rather? Would you rather have value or need? I'm going for value.
Golladay was on the field for 52 of the 61 offensive snaps last week. If Jones doesn't throw him the ball, does that mean it is necessarily a result of Garret not using him?
You need three good corners in the NFL. Judge and Graham both saw heavy resources invested in the secondary. Judge spent 8 years with a franchise who has consistently built a OL with later draft picks. The Giants hope to follow that model.
I think the really like AT, SL and NG and feel Peart has the tools. Unfortunately SL got hurt. The rumored liking some OL in the draft was to replace WH and not adding a 10-12 million guard.
Judge was heavily involved this offseason and is looking at short and long term.
You have to let the draft come to you in most cases. If the guys they wanted dropped to their pick maybe they would have drafted one. But if you pass on a wr and edge rounds 1 or 2 you still are looking at a third round rookie ol.
Quote:
In comment 15369142 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
You also act like the Giants haven't brought in vets along the OL like Fulton who retired? Why is Yiadom any different tham Price? I fail to see your point.
My point simple: the Giants saved money that was earmarked on the offensive line and invested it in another area. They gave Fulton zero guaranteed dollars.
Your view seems to be: at some point to let their offensive line investments play it out. I question why that shouldn’t pertain to the secondary?
They brought in vets along the OL. They saw value along the OL. Not sure why you aren't getting this.
Robbie, I promise you there’s nothing I’m not getting.
I’m simply questioning why in the offseason of 2021 (independent of the past) the Giants decided to upgrade the secondary with a veteran UFA and not the offensive line.
I assume the reason is there wasn’t a player available who fit the bill.
Quote:
to use him and play both to his and your QBs strenghts. I understand why DG was all hot and bothered to get him, but the fuck is the point if Garrett isn't going to use him.
Golladay was on the field for 52 of the 61 offensive snaps last week. If Jones doesn't throw him the ball, does that mean it is necessarily a result of Garret not using him?
Garrett seems completely incapable of calling an offense when the run game isn't going. The Broncos weren't able to get their run game going and were still able to scheme guys open verse our zones. You see it league wide. Garrett though? It's an impossible task when we can't get the run game going because everything is based on down and distance. He needs to join the modern NFL with the way he calls plays and make it easier for the offense. Waaay too much running on first down. They are terrified of negative plays, well we went out and got skill players and have Saquon. Use the pass game to open things up for Saquon instead of having run into lines with crashing safeties on first down.
GT I fixed this for ya:
The reason threads like these feel repetitive is that smart posters like christian
posters I think are smart because they agree with me
have been warning about this for months. Now, here we are.
10 offensive lineman were drafted between our original first round pick at #11 and when we picked Ojulari at #50 in round two. Not suggesting that the Giants did not get good value in both of their trade downs, but did they really need to do both?
If there really were O-lineman that were part of their "short lists" with those picks and they missed out on them then that looks like a questionable decision. Or if they really thought their OL unit was capable as is and they weren't ever going OL early in the draft anyway then that looks like a questionable decision. Take your pick.
if the goal was to evaluate jones this year with no excuses, slater was a no brainer. guy could be our LT or RT this year, and if peart really impressed they might have been able to slide him in at OG or OC and moved gates to OG.
now we have a receiver who apparently is not good at running routes and a 1st round pick next year who if we're lucky will be almost as good as slater
they also should have traded engram and got whatever they could.
by making these moves that would be an additional 10+ mil to have improved then team
they also should have traded engram and got whatever they could.
by making these moves that would be an additional 10+ mil to have improved then team
They obviously see something in Engram that we do not. Of course, what they see doesn't show up very often during a game if at all.
that happened to Gates tonight?