for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

My Observations About the Washington Game

gidiefor : Mod : 9/17/2021 8:20 am
First of all, it was a heart-breaker and there were definitely a bunch of negatives, but there were also bunch of positives that came out of last night's game:

on the plus side:
1. Daniel Jones stepped up and had a pretty decent game agains a very good defense.
- He had no turnovers
- He hit Rudolph for a big time chain-mover
- He ran smart
- He was passing with authority and accuracy, and spread the ball around
- He limited his foolish decisions
2. Shep continued his torrid streak last night
3. The Oline had a decent game especially in passing sets after Gates went out -- they marched down the the field and scored, took them a few sets to settle in, but I thought they had a decent game
4. Barkley broke a big run, after having a nothing burger game last week
5. Booker showed he belongs out there
6. Ojulari had another sack - that's one in each game he's played so far
7. Martinez had a better game than last week
8. Bradberry did give us a chance to win the game at the end

on the down side:
A. The chemistry isn't happening with both of the Giants big time free agents this year - Golladay and Jackson. I mean it really isn't happening. Those two need to figure out how to be vital pieces of this team or this season will be a lost cause and those moves will be stains on Gettleman and the FO.

B. The defense as a whole is not improved over last year. Did giving up Tomlinson hurt us more than adding Jackson and Shelton? That's the question I am asking. Both tHe Giants run defense and pass defense seems to have taken a step backwards this year, and it really doesn't make sense to me at all. Jackson should definitely be an improvement over any corner opposite Bradberry, but it just doesn't appear to be so right now. For the second game in a row a running back gashed the Giants and a perennial backup QB gashed the secondary.

C. Ron Rivera Out-Coached the Giants Coaching staff at the end of the game. The Giants possession may have yielded possible winning points, but they took less than 30 seconds off the clock, and turned the ball back to Washington with 2 minutes left and couldn't figure out a way to stop them. That's a bunch of bull right there. Did anyone have a doubt that Washington couldn't march the ball down the field and get into scoring position -- that part was frikken heart breaking. What was the point of running three straight plays up the middle and leaving 2 minutes on the clock? That was not playing to win. Jones had been having success all night moving the ball. You have the put the ball in the QBs hands and make some plays and run the clock down. An whats the point of using Barkley to run up the middle there? Those were very bad decisions by the coaching staff in my view.

D. Both moving Gates and then losing him with a broken leg -- yeesh -- I thought is was a bad move to change his position. The new center however did do a pretty good job there, and the line still held up -- but I can't help wondering if that particular bit of tinkering was just bad juju.

Sure there were  
mittenedman : 9/17/2021 8:24 am : link
some "positives", it's a 60 minute football game. It's not going to be 100% bad.

However, the Giants are comical losers, per usual.
Bradberry and Jackson are both press cover corners. They get  
Victor in CT : 9/17/2021 8:26 am : link
paid big $$ because of it. So WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY PLAYING 10+ YARDS OFF THE LOS??

Don't give me the bullshit that its lack of pass rush. They get push up the middle, but the QB always WRs running free. Take that away and maybe the edge guys get there more often
Gidi  
hassan : 9/17/2021 8:28 am : link
Your post should read, Saquon Barkley had a 41 yard run, and is a nothingburger outside of that again this week. Who loves to dance waaaaay too much. Otherwise spot on.
Ojulari  
bc4life : 9/17/2021 8:28 am : link
2 sacks already.
There were positives but this team doesn't appear ready for primetime  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 9/17/2021 8:29 am : link
It was another gut wrenching loss for this franchise. 0 - 2 for the fifth straight year.

What sticks with me from last night...
TD drop by Slayton
False start
False start

Won the game on a FG miss
Offsides
Lose the game on a FG.

This team knows how to demoralize and brutalize a fan base. One week we are worried if Jones is the guy or not, the next week the supposed strength of this team (The D) comes up SOFT and the tide of public opinion is starting to turn on Judge.
Good synopsis, gidiefor  
GeofromNJ : 9/17/2021 8:29 am : link
I think the loss of Tomlinson will haunt the Giants this entire year. I think teams will run on us at will unless Graham and Judge figure out a scheme using current players, and they may not be able to.
RE: Sure there were  
Jints in Carolina : 9/17/2021 8:30 am : link
In comment 15373190 mittenedman said:
Quote:
some "positives", it's a 60 minute football game. It's not going to be 100% bad.

However, the Giants are comical losers, per usual.


this
RE: Ojulari  
Greg from LI : 9/17/2021 8:31 am : link
In comment 15373210 bc4life said:
Quote:
2 sacks already.


Not generating consistent pressure at all, though. I loved the pick and I have high hopes for him, but the first two games from him are a bit disappointing IMO
RE: Bradberry and Jackson are both press cover corners. They get  
crick n NC : 9/17/2021 8:31 am : link
In comment 15373199 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
paid big $$ because of it. So WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY PLAYING 10+ YARDS OFF THE LOS??

Don't give me the bullshit that it's lack of pass rush. They get push up the middle, but the QB always WRs running free. Take that away and maybe the edge guys get there more often


Victor, I do not know enough about x's and o's, but I would be interested in hearing what the defense is hoping to accomplish with their approach. From my layman point of view they do not seem to be playing to their strenghts.
hassan  
bc4life : 9/17/2021 8:31 am : link
He's coming off a big time injury.
The biggest negatives  
5BowlsSoon : 9/17/2021 8:31 am : link
Judge
Graham
Garrett (last 2 minutes)

Dexter’s lack of self control
Ref for calling holding on Board
Slayton’s drop, although he did make a great catch on his TD
Saquon all game safe one play (he looks real bad)
RE: Good synopsis, gidiefor  
GeofromNJ : 9/17/2021 8:32 am : link
In comment 15373216 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
I think the loss of Tomlinson will haunt the Giants this entire year. I think teams will run on us at will unless Graham and Judge figure out a scheme using current players, and they may not be able to.
Should have added that without Tomlinson, it will not be easy to pressure the quarterback.
Does not matter bc  
hassan : 9/17/2021 8:33 am : link
Same tendency he’s had. Long run. Then soft inside the box. Don’t think its the injury….this is who he is.
RE: RE: Bradberry and Jackson are both press cover corners. They get  
Victor in CT : 9/17/2021 8:33 am : link
In comment 15373221 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 15373199 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


paid big $$ because of it. So WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY PLAYING 10+ YARDS OFF THE LOS??

Don't give me the bullshit that it's lack of pass rush. They get push up the middle, but the QB always WRs running free. Take that away and maybe the edge guys get there more often



Victor, I do not know enough about x's and o's, but I would be interested in hearing what the defense is hoping to accomplish with their approach. From my layman point of view they do not seem to be playing to their strenghts.


Agreed. They are trying to prevent 20+ yard plays in the air, but they give them up anyway on YAC because the middle of the field is open
Booker  
pjcas18 : 9/17/2021 8:33 am : link
had two rushes for 9 yards and one catch for 2 yards and that was enough to show you he belongs out there?

I get trying to search for positives in a sea of negative, but when you add things like this is cheapens any legitimate points you make.
Adoree Jackson is already 10,000% better than whoever  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/17/2021 8:33 am : link
the Giants had opposite Bradberry last season. I don’t get that criticism.
RE: Gidi  
UConn4523 : 9/17/2021 8:34 am : link
In comment 15373208 hassan said:
Quote:
Your post should read, Saquon Barkley had a 41 yard run, and is a nothingburger outside of that again this week. Who loves to dance waaaaay too much. Otherwise spot on.


I actually didn't see him "dance" much lastnight. I did see another lackluster run game design though. 2 games down, maybe 2 routes run by Barkley? Any motion?
RE: Ojulari  
Beer Man : 9/17/2021 8:34 am : link
In comment 15373210 bc4life said:
Quote:
2 sacks already.
Yes he has two sacks, but both were coverage sacks. I am still waiting for this team to produce consistent pressure on opposing QBs. Yet again the D made a journey man QB look all-pro because they failed to make it uncomfortable for him.
RE: hassan  
crick n NC : 9/17/2021 8:35 am : link
In comment 15373222 bc4life said:
Quote:
He's coming off a big time injury.


Yeah, I do not get the POV that Barkley should be Barkley of 2018, or Barkley of 2019 before his HAS. Major reconstructive knee surgery is a factor. Think about how he looked trying to come back from his HAS, and that was minor compared to this surgery. It is not unusual for players at his position to not be effective right away after sustaining that much tissue trauma. And to be honest, it is possible he may never be the same.
RE: There were positives but this team doesn't appear ready for primetime  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/17/2021 8:35 am : link
In comment 15373215 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
It was another gut wrenching loss for this franchise. 0 - 2 for the fifth straight year.

What sticks with me from last night...
TD drop by Slayton
False start
False start

Won the game on a FG miss
Offsides
Lose the game on a FG.

This team knows how to demoralize and brutalize a fan base. One week we are worried if Jones is the guy or not, the next week the supposed strength of this team (The D) comes up SOFT and the tide of public opinion is starting to turn on Judge.


Bold -- yeah -- I didn't include the miscues and lack of discipline - they were better than Washington in that department - but there were a bunch of untimely miscues - and Judge has told us his team wouldn't hurt themselves that way -- but they did it repeatedly last night

Part of that is that they were playing a division team. Division games tend to be uglier - but that's a bad look for a Coach that preaches he was going to put a fundamentally sound team out there that won't hurt themselves.
Well said, buddy.  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 9/17/2021 8:37 am : link
.
RE: Booker  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/17/2021 8:38 am : link
In comment 15373228 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
had two rushes for 9 yards and one catch for 2 yards and that was enough to show you he belongs out there?

I get trying to search for positives in a sea of negative, but when you add things like this is cheapens any legitimate points you make.


Booker plays fundamentally sound football - and knows his assignments. He kept heat off of the QB when he was in there. He ran well with the ball in his hands.
I thought Adoree played well yesterday  
Jim in Forest Hills : 9/17/2021 8:38 am : link
He blanketed Dyami Brown who is quite fast. That TD catch I just tip my hat to Seals Jones. Its hard to outrun Adoree when he makes the right read. Last week vs the Broncos you could see his speed when Gordon was loose, only Adoree caught him.
Beyond the disappointing 0-2 start  
mittenedman : 9/17/2021 8:38 am : link
I'd say the top 2 picks aren't looking too hot yet, either.

Toney is behind C.J. Board, and Ojulari looks very angular and non-explosive. IMO.
Some good points Gidie  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/17/2021 8:40 am : link
but I don't see it as a DG/front office thing with Jackson/Galloday. Judge is extremely involved in the decision process imo.

The question I have is pretty simple:

Is Graham being told to play defense this way by Judge or is he maybe not so good at this DC thing?

For now I am giving Graham the benefit of the doubt. For now.
UConn/crick  
hassan : 9/17/2021 8:41 am : link
UConn, I believe I saw him try to break outside a couple of time when lower his shoulder and going straightforward would help.

Crick, you can give him the mulligan of injury, but his stat line sucks if you take a 41 yarder off and even with the 41 yarder his ypc is middling.

If he can explode for a long gain with speed (which he did), how much of his production challenge is his injury vs his historic tendency to break a long one then get several small yardage plays?

Tomlinson was a good player  
Dave on the UWS : 9/17/2021 8:43 am : link
NOT good enough to account for the lack of effectiveness inside. Johnson and Shelton should be enough on the nose. Chemistry on the line isn’t there yet
RE: UConn/crick  
crick n NC : 9/17/2021 8:44 am : link
In comment 15373258 hassan said:
Quote:
UConn, I believe I saw him try to break outside a couple of time when lower his shoulder and going straightforward would help.

Crick, you can give him the mulligan of injury, but his stat line sucks if you take a 41 yarder off and even with the 41 yarder his ypc is middling.

If he can explode for a long gain with speed (which he did), how much of his production challenge is his injury vs his historic tendency to break a long one then get several small yardage plays?


Hasaan, this issue here is you have never liked Barkley as a player, correct? I think the Barkley we got before the injuries was a fantastic player.

I don't think it is as simple as saying, "he made a long run here with speed, so the injury is not affecting him". You have data, player testimonies that coming back from this injury is difficult and takes time. If you are saying that Barkley looks the same as he did before the injuries then we can agree to disagree.
RE: Some good points Gidie  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/17/2021 8:45 am : link
In comment 15373253 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
but I don't see it as a DG/front office thing with Jackson/Galloday. Judge is extremely involved in the decision process imo.

The question I have is pretty simple:

Is Graham being told to play defense this way by Judge or is he maybe not so good at this DC thing?

For now I am giving Graham the benefit of the doubt. For now.


LoS -- I am really perplexed by this -- he seemingly did better with less talent in the secondary last year

You can't let a QB just march against the defense all game -- I think there were maybe four stops all game - and no stop where it counted -- that is a repeating factor through three separate coaching staffs -- no bueno!
besides  
crick n NC : 9/17/2021 8:45 am : link
Was that explosion the same explosion as before, does the Barkley pre-injury take that another twenty yards or even longer?
hassan  
UConn4523 : 9/17/2021 8:47 am : link
he was getting stone walled up the middle all game. Yes, of course he's going to try and bounce one now and then. But that doesn't mean he "danced" - such a cliched term.

Barkley's name kept getting called to run up the gut behind a line giving no push. A perfect example is the Jones' run in the 2nd half where Young thought he crushed Barkley for a loss - that's what our RB's faced most of lastnight.

At what point do we change how we use him? This whole "hard yards" thing is such nonsense - being 2nd and 7 is no different than 2nd and 8, especially when you factor in what a 40 yard play can do for a team when it hits.
The defense not only hasn't improved from last year, it's not nearly  
Ira : 9/17/2021 8:49 am : link
as good.
RE: hassan  
crick n NC : 9/17/2021 8:49 am : link
In comment 15373290 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
he was getting stone walled up the middle all game. Yes, of course he's going to try and bounce one now and then. But that doesn't mean he "danced" - such a cliched term.

Barkley's name kept getting called to run up the gut behind a line giving no push. A perfect example is the Jones' run in the 2nd half where Young thought he crushed Barkley for a loss - that's what our RB's faced most of last night.

At what point do we change how we use him? This whole "hard yards" thing is such nonsense - being 2nd and 7 is no different than 2nd and 8, especially when you factor in what a 40 yard play can do for a team when it hits.


This is a good point. Teams are gravitating to barkley which is why Jones runs were open. The Giants are doing Barkley favors by continuing to get Jones on the outside. Teams will have to stop crashing inside.
Crick  
hassan : 9/17/2021 8:51 am : link
Incorrect, I liked Barkley as a player. Did not think he was a good pick but that is not to be held against him. Had a very good 2018, obviously special runs. But how is that going to be sustainable to explode jump and twist like he did that year at his weight? Ferraris break down.

I understand its not that simple. He is hurt, but in fact he probably will always be diminished and I do believe NYG has to find a different way to deploy him. Pass the ball to him more in space, etc. But I think he will always have issues with a high percentage of minimal gains if they use him like a traditional back.

I do also agree the run design is not great.
RE: Crick  
crick n NC : 9/17/2021 8:54 am : link
In comment 15373312 hassan said:
Quote:
Incorrect, I liked Barkley as a player. Did not think he was a good pick but that is not to be held against him. Had a very good 2018, obviously special runs. But how is that going to be sustainable to explode jump and twist like he did that year at his weight? Ferraris break down.

I understand its not that simple. He is hurt, but in fact he probably will always be diminished and I do believe NYG has to find a different way to deploy him. Pass the ball to him more in space, etc. But I think he will always have issues with a high percentage of minimal gains if they use him like a traditional back.

I do also agree the run design is not great.


Fair post. I do not think his issues with "dirty run" are as much of an issue as fans make it out to be. A decent run blocking OL would help, it does not have to be even close to perfect for him to succeed as a "traditional back. He has tremendous power, he doesn't shy from contact. He probably needs to learn a little more about running at the NFL level (ala Tiki)
The calls on defense are getting old  
JonC : 9/17/2021 8:56 am : link
There's zero pass rush and the tell they expect it is all the soft, big cushion zone being played by our corners who excel in man and hunting the football. El Stinko. The front seven isn't getting it done and a lot of it has to do with the lack of talent across the board at LB.

Undisciplined, dumb football team not paying attention to detail, cost them in penalties and breakdowns. Hell, the OL played better after Gates broke his leg because they got some new blood in there!

Giants should've won the game, but deserved to lose. This is a trend with bad football teams. And, the overall coaching looks like a young bunch trying to learn how to win in the NFL, same as the players.

Bredeson and Price need to play, leave them in there and let's see if the OL continues to play better. Golladay showed some hustle out there, but needs to shut up and not start yelling at the QB on the bench. I said it for the past year, the defense isn't finished, it needs more talent up front in the seven. Martinez and LW can't do it alone.

Theme of the game was mistakes and lack of discipline, but if it helps the team/coaches figure out how to attack and start finding ways to win instead of BEAT THEMSELVES, then it will be worth it down the road.

Clean it up!
 
ryanmkeane : 9/17/2021 8:59 am : link
Even with a few sacks I think The pass blocking was the best we’ve seen in years. Other than Jones I think that’s the only positive I can think of. It seems Thomas may have turned a corner.
It's Simple  
Bernie : 9/17/2021 9:09 am : link
Bad teams find ways to lose.
 
ryanmkeane : 9/17/2021 9:14 am : link
honestly - trying to find positives with this game is just the same old bullshit. Until we can win games there’s no point.
Ojulari had a game like Chase Young did  
Mike from Ohio : 9/17/2021 9:21 am : link
occasional flashes, but disappearing for long stretches of the game. Getting sacks is nice, but Ojulari's was a coverage sack. He was not exactly in the in the backfield disrupting all night. Heinicke had the night he did because he played from a clean pocket.
RE: Tomlinson was a good player  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/17/2021 9:22 am : link
In comment 15373269 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
NOT good enough to account for the lack of effectiveness inside. Johnson and Shelton should be enough on the nose. Chemistry on the line isn’t there yet


The Giants didn’t get the ball run on them with their base personnel out there. They were gashed with nickel personnel out there, with either Holmes or Peppers as the 5th DB. Hell, they were in nickel personnel on the freaking goal line TD. Gotta get tighter out there and not allow so many natural running lanes. Also, the edges have to be better at the point of attack.
It's a fool's game  
madeinstars : 9/17/2021 9:22 am : link
To try and find positives and think they will be building on that. If the past few seasons have shown us anything, is that the same things/players that look good one week, will be terrible the next.
Ojulari has two sacks and  
bc4life : 9/17/2021 9:24 am : link
he is still a baby. When does E Smith come back?

I'm wondering if Coughlin should have stayed outside - if using him in the middle is square peg/round hole type of thing.

IMO, Tomlinson is missed. Not knocking the decision to not re-sign him, but still think he's missed. Not a main ingredient - but an important one
RE: hassan  
PatersonPlank : 9/17/2021 9:24 am : link
In comment 15373290 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
he was getting stone walled up the middle all game. Yes, of course he's going to try and bounce one now and then. But that doesn't mean he "danced" - such a cliched term.

Barkley's name kept getting called to run up the gut behind a line giving no push. A perfect example is the Jones' run in the 2nd half where Young thought he crushed Barkley for a loss - that's what our RB's faced most of lastnight.

At what point do we change how we use him? This whole "hard yards" thing is such nonsense - being 2nd and 7 is no different than 2nd and 8, especially when you factor in what a 40 yard play can do for a team when it hits.


When he puts his head down and plows into the pile of DL players waiting for him, then detracters yell he has no vision and can't find the hole. They make it so he can't win
Mike from Ohio  
bc4life : 9/17/2021 9:25 am : link
Fair enough but he's a rookie and he had a sack last week too.
The defense has been very disappointing  
GIANTS128 : 9/17/2021 9:27 am : link
The corners were literally playing 12 yards off. I mean how does that make sense when both corners excel at press coverage.
Then that play on the WASH TD where they only had 2 down lineman on the LS is a head scratcher. Ive never seen a team do that on basically a goal line stand. Then it appeared they ran it again late in the 4th. Gave up a crucial 1st down there. Time to rip that look out of the playbook
Paterson  
hassan : 9/17/2021 9:28 am : link
No one has said that. If he put his head down and pushed the pile more often it would be better. Even OJ Anderson said this. Stop with the broad statements. Barkley has vision for the cutback-if anything too often.

His line, the situation, etc. He is a soft runner inside the tackles….a knock that goes back to Penn State.
Missed the Golladay yelling at Jones part last night.  
chick310 : 9/17/2021 9:30 am : link
What happened and why?
Judge outcoached himself...  
BillKo : 9/17/2021 9:31 am : link
...Rivera did zero to influence that.
RE: Adoree Jackson is already 10,000% better than whoever  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/17/2021 10:03 am : link
In comment 15373230 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
the Giants had opposite Bradberry last season. I don’t get that criticism.


Because results.
RE: I thought Adoree played well yesterday  
islander1 : 9/17/2021 10:13 am : link
In comment 15373243 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
He blanketed Dyami Brown who is quite fast. That TD catch I just tip my hat to Seals Jones. Its hard to outrun Adoree when he makes the right read. Last week vs the Broncos you could see his speed when Gordon was loose, only Adoree caught him.


The receiver had 7 inches on him. There's not much Adoree can do on high balls unless he has the receiver in front of him there.
RE: Missed the Golladay yelling at Jones part last night.  
aGiantGuy : 9/17/2021 11:48 am : link
In comment 15373473 chick310 said:
Quote:
What happened and why?


Basically, Golladay was open but Slayton was wide open. Slayton goes on to drop the pass. Golladay is basically saying if the game is one the line, choose me.
Back to the Corner