Didn't see anything on this via search. Accrding to CBS.com, Toney came off the field in the 3rd Qtr. and had an animated discussion with JJ before storming off and sitting apart from his team mates. He didnt re enter the game afterwards. He then posted that “shit be lame to me” on Instagram after the game. Doesn't sound like he’s a happy camper.
That being said, after OBJ, Flowers, Apple, Baker...its shocking they may have drafted another guy in RD1 with questionable intangibles. Nothing about Toney seems encouraging to this point.
Really not liking this pick at all.
Toney Frustrated - ( New Window )
He’s an explosive guy so I’ll wait until he gets more reps before I judge him. I know that he is way behind in terms of time on the field.
But this has been a rough rough start.
With all the media jumping on this I haven't seen anyone reference what happened on the field prior to this.
Thanks. I don't know how to post a link after 10 plus years on the site.
BBV also had an article on Toney.
Link - ( New Window )
The Toney pick kind of felt like that to me.
Tension is very high - need to keep the team together. O-Line needs to get practice reps given the two brand-new starters. And Judge needs to self-scout his own tendencies and fucking improve.
Can you imagine if this coaching staff starting with Judge was there for Super Bowl XXV? Buffalo would have had another chance, a shorter kick, to win that Super Bowl.
BBV also had an article on Toney. Link - ( New Window )
Toney put up good numbers in college. Rocky Thompson didn’t. Toney’s problems might be between the ears.
As I said, I didn't want Toney at #20. He's an electric player, but I thought he had too many character concerns. We nonetheless need to see what happens for at least the rest of the year. All of this will be forgotten if he starts to produce. He missed all of camp and is pretty far behind as a consequence.
What is it that Toney finds lame? The 0-2 start? His role? Judge’s lecture? Play-calling that hasn’t included him? Toney wasn’t available after the loss, and the rookie receiver has spoken to the media only twice since training camp started.
Toney frustrated - ( New Window )
The Giants liked him enough to draft him at #20. He played 17 plays and he didn't touch the ball once. It is perplexing.
That being said, after OBJ, Flowers, Apple, Baker...its shocking they may have drafted another guy in RD1 with questionable intangibles. Nothing about Toney seems encouraging to this point.
That's why I was surprised they took Toney. I thought they'd been burned too many times by players with character concerns. I was certain the pick would be Paye, or if a WR, then Bateman or Moore.
The Giants liked him enough to draft him at #20. He played 17 plays and he didn't touch the ball once. It is perplexing.
I am guessing the coaches do not feel that he has a grasp of the offense yet, which seems reasonable.
I am wondering if Toney has not seen more time because he is not discipline or knows the playbook?
Most NFL head coaches are always preaching hard work and discipline.
Some of these 1st round guys are so talented physically that they can get away with being lazy in college and still be successful but, that is because they are the 1% playing against the 99% that will not make it to the NFL. Now, Toney is playing against professionals and other 1 percenters.
There is going to be a growth curve for anybody that young coming to a new place where he is not GOD anymore.
Some guys come in and immediately dominate (LT). Some guys come in and it take 3-4 seasons to come into their own .... and others never make the transition no matter how high they are drafted.
Fingers crossed for you Kadarius. Rooting hard and hope you make it.
2 - that being said, toney was not the WR we needed. he's not polished as a route runner or a savy player when it comes to reading defenses and knowing when to sit down vs move, etc. he's more of a gadget guy that you hope can learn the nuances of the position while giving value as the gadget guy (personally i feel like these guys never quite work out in the pros). expecting this coaching staff to maximize someone like that was foolish then and it's foolish now. he is also best suited in the slot, which is where shep is best suited (we should have learned this lesson when they had both tate and shep). the way this pick made sense is they thought the value was too good to pass up and viewed him as shep's replacement next year. but then they went and restructed shep's deal making it unlikely that he will be a cap casualty next year. so it doesn't make sense anymore
3 - toney should be mad. i was mad watching last night too. cj board (who SUCKS) was playing over him and playing over him in roles that toney is perfect for. they threw board a quasi screen / flare, which is toney's speciality. they even went so far as to use board on punt and kick returns over toney. i actually like that he's mad. he wants the ball and wants to play. i'd much prefer this to him sitting there quiet and content on the bench. he's also probably thinking he can make that catch slayton did not and wants his opportunity.
4 - once again this appears to be a wasted pick. the team doesn't have a plan for him. and this just goes to an organizational failure. i was against this pick right away in the draft thread. he just doesn't fit this team with these coaches. he had big time red flags coming out. he wasn't a can't miss prospect. they would have been much better off picking a safer prospect with less red flags that was more polished. the move there was to trade down again and target a dyami brown later on in the draft.
Teaches me that people media personalities just can't be believed. Our college connections must be shit, and we're listening to the wrong people.
I hated the Toney pick, he was the one WR I wanted to stay away from, but here he is.
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I don't like players taking shit like this public (especially rookies, and I can't stand diva WRs), but I am as confused as he is by his usage.
The Giants liked him enough to draft him at #20. He played 17 plays and he didn't touch the ball once. It is perplexing.
I am guessing the coaches do not feel that he has a grasp of the offense yet, which seems reasonable.
Then don't play him at all. 17 plays is not an insignificant number. That's about a quarter of the plays. I would understand not playing him at all, more than playing him about a quarter of the offensive plays and not putting the ball in his hands once.
We signed Golladay to one of the largest WR contracts in the NFL this off-season. If we liked him so much we could have drafted him in 2017 in the second round, instead we took Davis Webb, who is long-gone and 4-years later we pay Golladay $72 million.
The list goes on and on, but this insanity starts at the top of the organization.The game last night didn't define the season, but an era of Giants football.
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In comment 15374061 KDavies said:
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I don't like players taking shit like this public (especially rookies, and I can't stand diva WRs), but I am as confused as he is by his usage.
The Giants liked him enough to draft him at #20. He played 17 plays and he didn't touch the ball once. It is perplexing.
I am guessing the coaches do not feel that he has a grasp of the offense yet, which seems reasonable.
Then don't play him at all. 17 plays is not an insignificant number. That's about a quarter of the plays. I would understand not playing him at all, more than playing him about a quarter of the offensive plays and not putting the ball in his hands once.
It seems to fit the scenario of a player that is behind from what I have seen over the years.
Teaches me that people media personalities just can't be believed. Our college connections must be shit, and we're listening to the wrong people.
I hated the Toney pick, he was the one WR I wanted to stay away from, but here he is.
to be very clear joe judge was loud and proud for toney. went on and on how they met him in person and were extremely impressed and wanted him in our program. honeymoon is over for judge. he owns every failure from here on out
well done
The Giants liked him enough to draft him at #20. He played 17 plays and he didn't touch the ball once. It is perplexing.
he's not an incredible talent. He's a gadget receiver. If we were going for a WR, Bateman was the obvious choice.
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I don't like players taking shit like this public (especially rookies, and I can't stand diva WRs), but I am as confused as he is by his usage.
The Giants liked him enough to draft him at #20. He played 17 plays and he didn't touch the ball once. It is perplexing.
he's not an incredible talent. He's a gadget receiver. If we were going for a WR, Bateman was the obvious choice.
I watched a lot of him in college. He is quite talented. Being a gadget WR and being talented are not mutually exclusive.
Whether the Giants/Garrett use him right remains to be seen, as to whether he develops or not.
Bateman is on IR. Fans would be bitching about him too.
I agree with those who would have gone Paye. I wanted Paye/Darrisaw.
But it is perplexing that they didn't use him at all. WTF did they draft him for. A gadget guy like that can still get a few touches even if he missed camp. And if he's not ready for touches, why are you even playing him at all at this point?
I have been around a lot of players and coaches. I won't side with Toney but a lot of times these type of blowups stem from a lack of respect Judge needs to win games fast imv.
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In comment 15374061 KDavies said:
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I don't like players taking shit like this public (especially rookies, and I can't stand diva WRs), but I am as confused as he is by his usage.
The Giants liked him enough to draft him at #20. He played 17 plays and he didn't touch the ball once. It is perplexing.
he's not an incredible talent. He's a gadget receiver. If we were going for a WR, Bateman was the obvious choice.
I watched a lot of him in college. He is quite talented. Being a gadget WR and being talented are not mutually exclusive.
Whether the Giants/Garrett use him right remains to be seen, as to whether he develops or not.
Bateman is on IR. Fans would be bitching about him too.
I agree with those who would have gone Paye. I wanted Paye/Darrisaw.
But it is perplexing that they didn't use him at all. WTF did they draft him for. A gadget guy like that can still get a few touches even if he missed camp. And if he's not ready for touches, why are you even playing him at all at this point?
Bateman is a complete WR and will be a factor for the Ravens. Toney never put together a whole season of solid production. But I agree with you, I would have drafted Darrisaw or Paye or traded back again.
I really think using him as a RB with the RPO's could be effective. Even Jones continues to pull it 93% of the time
Agreed, this looks like a horrible pick right now. There were so many other directions they could have gone with that pick. Whenever a player is drafted in the first round and they indicate that the player is still learning his position it is concerning to me. Especially a WR. First rounders should be close to finished products.
David Wilson
Erick Flowers
Eli Apple
Evan Engram
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that Dyami Brown was all over the field last night. A third round pick. Toney should have gone in the third round as well. Gettleman and Jints Central reaches are almost as bad as Mayock and the Raiders.
Agreed, this looks like a horrible pick right now. There were so many other directions they could have gone with that pick. Whenever a player is drafted in the first round and they indicate that the player is still learning his position it is concerning to me. Especially a WR. First rounders should be close to finished products.
Or the athleticism has to be off the charts, like JPP. Rondale Moore went in the 2nd round and was rated higher by most experts than Toney. Plus Rondale is faster with a better vert. Honestly, the Toney pick was a head scratcher. Too high a pick. They should have waited on WR. They would have gotten better value in the draft.
If true, and he decided to keep it on his own that could explain him not getting touches this week.
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In comment 15374098 Producer said:
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that Dyami Brown was all over the field last night. A third round pick. Toney should have gone in the third round as well. Gettleman and Jints Central reaches are almost as bad as Mayock and the Raiders.
Agreed, this looks like a horrible pick right now. There were so many other directions they could have gone with that pick. Whenever a player is drafted in the first round and they indicate that the player is still learning his position it is concerning to me. Especially a WR. First rounders should be close to finished products.
Or the athleticism has to be off the charts, like JPP. Rondale Moore went in the 2nd round and was rated higher by most experts than Toney. Plus Rondale is faster with a better vert. Honestly, the Toney pick was a head scratcher. Too high a pick. They should have waited on WR. They would have gotten better value in the draft.
It really was a strange pick. I liked the two trades down. I thought it made a ton of sense once Smith was off the board. But all of that movement to draft a player who was projected by most to go in round 2? It just seemed odd. The tackle breaking ability you see in his college tape is unique, but all of the drops at the senior bowl practices, etc. were concerning and more or less confirmed that he was not close to being a polished receiver.
I had to look away when they started showing the Smith highlights last week because he’s looking like the exact player I thought he was going to be. Smooth, excellent route runner, fast, dynamic. Cowboys really screwed us with that trade. Now we have a guy who looks like Lil Wayne and OBJ combined with a matching attitude.
Barkley can’t run left and can’t run up the middle.
The fact that after two games Toney has 2 catches for -2 yards is sad. He’s not some developmental 5th round pick.
Also note that Toney had 1 season with over 25 catches, his Sr campaign where had 70. Sterling Shepherd by comparison notched 4 excellent campaigns for another big-time program when he came out ( his sr season was better than Toney’s sr season, too) and was picked in the 2nd.
The Toney pick kind of felt like that to me.
This is exactly what I thought. The Giants were not prepared for the draft properly. In fact, one of our resident experts let drop that they expected Vera-Tucker to be there at 20 and were taken by surprise when he was taken.
Good to see you posting again, Jerry.
Seems like the culture and mental focus of the team is pretty much the same as when McAdoo was here.
The guy may not know the offense. He may not understand the audible calls. He may not be running the correct routes. He may have violated team rules.
There are a myriad of reasons that COULD apply here but nobody outside of the locker room knows.
The only think that we can be sure if is this... based upon the way the guy speaks, it was a waste of a college education
Mara is lame, Gettleman is lamer. The league passed them by about a decade ago.
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when you're in a fantasy draft and you're only sort of paying attention and the 3 guys you were looking at just got picked? Then you're on the clock and scrambling through the list. And time is running out....and uhh... how about Chase Claypool... he's still available right?
The Toney pick kind of felt like that to me.
This is exactly what I thought. The Giants were not prepared for the draft properly. In fact, one of our resident experts let drop that they expected Vera-Tucker to be there at 20 and were taken by surprise when he was taken.
Good to see you posting again, Jerry.
This is a great analogy. It really did feel that way draft night.
(hopefully this situation turns around fast)
We have one already - Shepard (who might be Pro Bowl this year)
He's not an "X" - That's Slayton
He's not a big Possession - That's Galladay
I know he's not happy, but that's what he is right now - bench rider
He's not a bad dude, dumb dude, or bad player.
He just has bad judgement.
Nothing should be off the table when it comes to accumulating future picks. This whole thing is going to be blown up soon anyway.
Brutal.
So you have a pretty slow possession WR with some really good shake moves. Those moves are indeed impressive, but the only evidence we have of them working is at the NCAA level. Will they work in the NFL? So how do you scout this key part of the analysis of Toney? Do you look at only Gators footage of him escaping from high level NCAA players who are pro prospects? That had to be done carefully and there are almost certainly sample size problems. Meanwhile, he’s like the 20th rated prospect or something and may not be getting the targeted focus a pick like that should receive.
Let’s hope I’m all wet about this, but boy is this a risky pick before you even get to this guy’s behavior.
Nothing should be off the table when it comes to accumulating future picks. This whole thing is going to be blown up soon anyway.
Forgot about this angle - good point.
If you can’t make a trade, like I wrote earlier, you have to seriously consider cutting KT. Too much noise and I don’t see enough production on the horizon to justify the noise.
Number one — go home, call the police, lock the door
Number two — if you think you do got to get down, what the hell are you going to do with an air rifle?