Kadarius Toney

holy crap.

that's all he's shown since mini-camp. Time to grow up and think of the team, champ.

Bust at this point, is incredibly premature.
That being said, after OBJ, Flowers, Apple, Baker...its shocking they may have drafted another guy in RD1 with questionable intangibles. Nothing about Toney seems encouraging to this point.

never improves.. I mean, this is what we are getting without even contributing yet, what happens when he gets a few positive plays or scores...

Really not liking this pick at all.

our scouting department and pro personnel department are a huge problem!! This kid is not off to a good start.

Link
Toney Frustrated - ( New Window )

especially its premium draft picks. so far, this draft pick is off to a very poor start. too early to make a final determination, but the early issues are concerning and extrapolating doesn't paint a rosy picture...

The way Shepard has been involved also makes the Toney pick look worse since they are similar type of players.

He’s an explosive guy so I’ll wait until he gets more reps before I judge him. I know that he is way behind in terms of time on the field.

But this has been a rough rough start.

#20 was always a reach for this kid. And now he is showing why he was rated behind the likes of Bateman, Marshall, Moore, etc.

terrible selection by an incredibly bad GM.

Seems like Olde Joka just ignored that and a lot of other stuff when drafting him

red flag on him coming out? Immature and childish? I still can't understand why we picked him, we really didn't need another WR after we signed Golladay. We have glaring needs on both lines and we pick a gadget player instead.

Any info on the series of plays that went on before he had the conversation with Judge that lead to him looking upset?

With all the media jumping on this I haven't seen anyone reference what happened on the field prior to this.

In comment 15373984 crick n NC said:

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Link Toney Frustrated - ( New Window )

Thanks. I don't know how to post a link after 10 plus years on the site.

and wont tell us about this kid lol

The gift that keeps on giving.

and that seems to fit. Wasted draft pick.

BBV also had an article on Toney.

Link - ( New Window )

That he can't take a few more snaps away from Slayton at this point.

DeAndre Baker had a rough start to his Giants career but has developed into an solid player for us.

when you're in a fantasy draft and you're only sort of paying attention and the 3 guys you were looking at just got picked? Then you're on the clock and scrambling through the list. And time is running out....and uhh... how about Chase Claypool... he's still available right?

The Toney pick kind of felt like that to me.

are huge for Judge. A lot to do.

Tension is very high - need to keep the team together. O-Line needs to get practice reps given the two brand-new starters. And Judge needs to self-scout his own tendencies and fucking improve.

who is not used to losing yet. The culture will catch up to him. Though I will have to admit that even though I have rooted for this team since the 1950s, being ahead when the clock at the end of the game reads 00:00 and still losing the game is new to me.

Can you imagine if this coaching staff starting with Judge was there for Super Bowl XXV? Buffalo would have had another chance, a shorter kick, to win that Super Bowl.

In comment 15374002 US1 Giants said:

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and that seems to fit. Wasted draft pick. BBV also had an article on Toney. Link - ( New Window )

Toney put up good numbers in college. Rocky Thompson didn’t. Toney’s problems might be between the ears.

I feel our team received some bad intel on our latest top pick.

shouldn't be arguing with Judge like that on the sideline during the game. Same for Golladay with Jones. Toney also shouldn't be posting his complaints on social media. Disagreements should be kept in house. But this is what happens when players get frustrated.

As I said, I didn't want Toney at #20. He's an electric player, but I thought he had too many character concerns. We nonetheless need to see what happens for at least the rest of the year. All of this will be forgotten if he starts to produce. He missed all of camp and is pretty far behind as a consequence.

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The Giants rookie was an afterthought in the offense on Thursday night, a brutal 30-29 loss to Washington, and he clearly wasn’t happy about it. The Giants hopped on a train and rode back to New Jersey late Thursday night, into Friday morning. On the ride home, Toney posted a message to his Instagram: “i don’t be mad, s—t just be lame to me.” What is it that Toney finds lame? The 0-2 start? His role? Judge’s lecture? Play-calling that hasn’t included him? Toney wasn’t available after the loss, and the rookie receiver has spoken to the media only twice since training camp started.

Toney frustrated - ( New Window )

Great pick by a great executive and the brilliant football mind that is Dave Gettleman.

I don't like players taking shit like this public (especially rookies, and I can't stand diva WRs), but I am as confused as he is by his usage.

The Giants liked him enough to draft him at #20. He played 17 plays and he didn't touch the ball once. It is perplexing.

In comment 15373981 NYG22 said:

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Bust at this point, is incredibly premature. That being said, after OBJ, Flowers, Apple, Baker...its shocking they may have drafted another guy in RD1 with questionable intangibles. Nothing about Toney seems encouraging to this point.

That's why I was surprised they took Toney. I thought they'd been burned too many times by players with character concerns. I was certain the pick would be Paye, or if a WR, then Bateman or Moore.

part deux.

In comment 15374061 KDavies said:

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I don't like players taking shit like this public (especially rookies, and I can't stand diva WRs), but I am as confused as he is by his usage. The Giants liked him enough to draft him at #20. He played 17 plays and he didn't touch the ball once. It is perplexing.

I am guessing the coaches do not feel that he has a grasp of the offense yet, which seems reasonable.

The guy was not a polished player coming in and missed a ton of time. He also chose not to do things like participate in optional workouts with his QB or optional team practices, so he's far behind.

Every 1st round draft pick comes to any team thinking he knows more than the HC (or as much).

I am wondering if Toney has not seen more time because he is not discipline or knows the playbook?
Most NFL head coaches are always preaching hard work and discipline.

Some of these 1st round guys are so talented physically that they can get away with being lazy in college and still be successful but, that is because they are the 1% playing against the 99% that will not make it to the NFL. Now, Toney is playing against professionals and other 1 percenters.

There is going to be a growth curve for anybody that young coming to a new place where he is not GOD anymore.

Some guys come in and immediately dominate (LT). Some guys come in and it take 3-4 seasons to come into their own .... and others never make the transition no matter how high they are drafted.


Fingers crossed for you Kadarius. Rooting hard and hope you make it.

1 - we did need a WR. yes we signed golladay (who has a habit of missing games due to injury). shep is ALWAYS hurt and has never played as well as he has so far this year. if shep were to get hurt again this year we would be very thin at WR. also is anyone really in love w slayton anymore? he's had very suspect hands last year and now this year

2 - that being said, toney was not the WR we needed. he's not polished as a route runner or a savy player when it comes to reading defenses and knowing when to sit down vs move, etc. he's more of a gadget guy that you hope can learn the nuances of the position while giving value as the gadget guy (personally i feel like these guys never quite work out in the pros). expecting this coaching staff to maximize someone like that was foolish then and it's foolish now. he is also best suited in the slot, which is where shep is best suited (we should have learned this lesson when they had both tate and shep). the way this pick made sense is they thought the value was too good to pass up and viewed him as shep's replacement next year. but then they went and restructed shep's deal making it unlikely that he will be a cap casualty next year. so it doesn't make sense anymore

3 - toney should be mad. i was mad watching last night too. cj board (who SUCKS) was playing over him and playing over him in roles that toney is perfect for. they threw board a quasi screen / flare, which is toney's speciality. they even went so far as to use board on punt and kick returns over toney. i actually like that he's mad. he wants the ball and wants to play. i'd much prefer this to him sitting there quiet and content on the bench. he's also probably thinking he can make that catch slayton did not and wants his opportunity.

4 - once again this appears to be a wasted pick. the team doesn't have a plan for him. and this just goes to an organizational failure. i was against this pick right away in the draft thread. he just doesn't fit this team with these coaches. he had big time red flags coming out. he wasn't a can't miss prospect. they would have been much better off picking a safer prospect with less red flags that was more polished. the move there was to trade down again and target a dyami brown later on in the draft.

drove the narrative that he's a good guy and there's nothing to worry about. His college flags were explained away and he'd be a fine player to draft.

Teaches me that people media personalities just can't be believed. Our college connections must be shit, and we're listening to the wrong people.

I hated the Toney pick, he was the one WR I wanted to stay away from, but here he is.

In comment 15374066 crick n NC said:

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In comment 15374061 KDavies said: Quote: I don't like players taking shit like this public (especially rookies, and I can't stand diva WRs), but I am as confused as he is by his usage. The Giants liked him enough to draft him at #20. He played 17 plays and he didn't touch the ball once. It is perplexing. I am guessing the coaches do not feel that he has a grasp of the offense yet, which seems reasonable.

Then don't play him at all. 17 plays is not an insignificant number. That's about a quarter of the plays. I would understand not playing him at all, more than playing him about a quarter of the offensive plays and not putting the ball in his hands once.

It shouldn't be. Just look over the past 10-years drafts and see who we drafted. What makes it worse is when you look at who we could have drafted instead.

We signed Golladay to one of the largest WR contracts in the NFL this off-season. If we liked him so much we could have drafted him in 2017 in the second round, instead we took Davis Webb, who is long-gone and 4-years later we pay Golladay $72 million.

The list goes on and on, but this insanity starts at the top of the organization.The game last night didn't define the season, but an era of Giants football.

In comment 15374077 KDavies said:

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In comment 15374066 crick n NC said: Quote: In comment 15374061 KDavies said: Quote: I don't like players taking shit like this public (especially rookies, and I can't stand diva WRs), but I am as confused as he is by his usage. The Giants liked him enough to draft him at #20. He played 17 plays and he didn't touch the ball once. It is perplexing. I am guessing the coaches do not feel that he has a grasp of the offense yet, which seems reasonable. Then don't play him at all. 17 plays is not an insignificant number. That's about a quarter of the plays. I would understand not playing him at all, more than playing him about a quarter of the offensive plays and not putting the ball in his hands once.

It seems to fit the scenario of a player that is behind from what I have seen over the years.

In comment 15374074 ATL_Giants said:

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drove the narrative that he's a good guy and there's nothing to worry about. His college flags were explained away and he'd be a fine player to draft. Teaches me that people media personalities just can't be believed. Our college connections must be shit, and we're listening to the wrong people. I hated the Toney pick, he was the one WR I wanted to stay away from, but here he is.

to be very clear joe judge was loud and proud for toney. went on and on how they met him in person and were extremely impressed and wanted him in our program. honeymoon is over for judge. he owns every failure from here on out

In comment 15374010 bceagle05 said:

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DeAndre Baker had a rough start to his Giants career but has developed into an solid player for us.

well done

In comment 15374061 KDavies said:

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I don't like players taking shit like this public (especially rookies, and I can't stand diva WRs), but I am as confused as he is by his usage. The Giants liked him enough to draft him at #20. He played 17 plays and he didn't touch the ball once. It is perplexing.

he's not an incredible talent. He's a gadget receiver. If we were going for a WR, Bateman was the obvious choice.

Gets a new toy doesn’t know how to use it. Thinks he is the smartest person in the room. Doesn’t know how to use Golladay or Jackson either. All the other first round healthy WR have a role on their team. The guy is electric with the ball in his hands, and the use him for one stupid gadget play. And he needs to earn his first team reps, so we can see more of Board or have Slayton continue his 30% catch rate.

that Dyami Brown was all over the field last night. A third round pick. Toney should have gone in the third round as well. Gettleman and Jints Central reaches are almost as bad as Mayock and the Raiders.

Being so raw, he desperately needed to be on the field during those times.

In comment 15374092 Producer said:

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In comment 15374061 KDavies said: Quote: I don't like players taking shit like this public (especially rookies, and I can't stand diva WRs), but I am as confused as he is by his usage. The Giants liked him enough to draft him at #20. He played 17 plays and he didn't touch the ball once. It is perplexing. he's not an incredible talent. He's a gadget receiver. If we were going for a WR, Bateman was the obvious choice.

I watched a lot of him in college. He is quite talented. Being a gadget WR and being talented are not mutually exclusive.

Whether the Giants/Garrett use him right remains to be seen, as to whether he develops or not.

Bateman is on IR. Fans would be bitching about him too.

I agree with those who would have gone Paye. I wanted Paye/Darrisaw.

But it is perplexing that they didn't use him at all. WTF did they draft him for. A gadget guy like that can still get a few touches even if he missed camp. And if he's not ready for touches, why are you even playing him at all at this point?

But I'd fire whoever made that pick

to label this kid a bust. The coaches most likely don't trust him yet grasping the playbook. Not uncommon for someone who missed so much time. I believe players have to earn reps. That said not having a few hip pocket plays for him is unfortunate.

I have been around a lot of players and coaches. I won't side with Toney but a lot of times these type of blowups stem from a lack of respect Judge needs to win games fast imv.

In comment 15374107 KDavies said:

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In comment 15374092 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15374061 KDavies said: Quote: I don't like players taking shit like this public (especially rookies, and I can't stand diva WRs), but I am as confused as he is by his usage. The Giants liked him enough to draft him at #20. He played 17 plays and he didn't touch the ball once. It is perplexing. he's not an incredible talent. He's a gadget receiver. If we were going for a WR, Bateman was the obvious choice. I watched a lot of him in college. He is quite talented. Being a gadget WR and being talented are not mutually exclusive. Whether the Giants/Garrett use him right remains to be seen, as to whether he develops or not. Bateman is on IR. Fans would be bitching about him too. I agree with those who would have gone Paye. I wanted Paye/Darrisaw. But it is perplexing that they didn't use him at all. WTF did they draft him for. A gadget guy like that can still get a few touches even if he missed camp. And if he's not ready for touches, why are you even playing him at all at this point?

Bateman is a complete WR and will be a factor for the Ravens. Toney never put together a whole season of solid production. But I agree with you, I would have drafted Darrisaw or Paye or traded back again.

Always irked me. And I’ve been a bit pissed at this team since the draft (my favorite picks of the draft Robinson and Smith on IR hasn’t helped). But the Toney pick really bothered me because it was nothing Joe Judge preaches. I felt Toney missed the mark of several of the things Judge claims to be about, AND HE WAS OUR 1st ROUNDER!

we have to find away to get him on the field and the ball in his hands. Let him return kicks at least. 8 outta 10 are touchbacks anyway

I really think using him as a RB with the RPO's could be effective. Even Jones continues to pull it 93% of the time