Thinking ahead here with the Giants and Bears if they finish 1 and 2 draft order. What would Giants do in this situation.
First thought: I am guessing if Jones can average 21 points the rest of this season per game this season his job would be safe because that would mean the soft zone defense crap killed the team this year and it wasn't jones. Also, there isn't a College QB worthy of top 10 pick this year IMO.
Second Thought: I am guessing giants would go DL and OT with those picks in lieu of how the defense played against powerhouse Old Dominion qb and this is a harboring of things to come.
Third Thought. We find our next Kerry Collins in FA to play QB and draft DL and OT with those top two picks.
Fourth Thought" We trade the picks for a huge package on offense and defense whether is draft picks and players or something else.
Fifth thought: Trade one of the high no 1 draft picks for a current winning Head coach like Sean Payton or Sean Mcvie. Give them GM responsibilities to entice them to come here.
the D guy from Oregon
the D guy from Oregon
Great minds…
Assuming Jones isnt the answer- isnt that we just did with him in 2019? Why make the same mistake twice?
Spencer Rattler would probably be one of those two picks but it's too early in the CFB season to tell.
If the staff somehow isn't turned over, then I agree with the posters above that you got OT/DE from Bama and Oregon or even double up and go Evan Neal and Kenyon Green and really make an effort to solidify this OL for the next 5-7 years.
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Assuming Jones isnt the answer- isnt that we just did with him in 2019? Why make the same mistake twice?
The game within the game in the NFL is to acquire an elite QB by any means necessary. Andy Reid knew it when he took Mahomes, even though he had a solid vet. Shanny Jr knew it when he traded up to get Lance, even though he had a QB who took him to a Super Bowl. If we don't learn that lesson, the pain will continue for another decade. We don't have an elite QB yet with Jones. Without one of the elite 8 to 10, you have almost no shot to win a Super Bowl in today's NFL. This is game theory.
the D guy from Oregon
Yep, would be the two easiest selections of all time.
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In comment 15374202 Producer said:
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Assuming Jones isnt the answer- isnt that we just did with him in 2019? Why make the same mistake twice?
The game within the game in the NFL is to acquire an elite QB by any means necessary. Andy Reid knew it when he took Mahomes, even though he had a solid vet. Shanny Jr knew it when he traded up to get Lance, even though he had a QB who took him to a Super Bowl. If we don't learn that lesson, the pain will continue for another decade. We don't have an elite QB yet with Jones. Without one of the elite 8 to 10, you have almost no shot to win a Super Bowl in today's NFL. This is game theory.
But the Qbs in this year crop arent sure fire picks. Lot of questions with all of them.
You take the QB when he is there for you. You don't wait. Buffalo liked Allen, even though they were an incomplete team, and they took him. Likewise, the Ravens spent a first on Lamar even though they had a vet in place.
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Assuming they are still ranked where they are now come April. They mentioned it on the broadcast yesterday, but the way you build a successful team is to look at what Buffalo and Baltimore did. You build the offensive and defensive lines, then find the QB that fits what you are looking to accomplish.
You take the QB when he is there for you. You don't wait. Buffalo liked Allen, even though they were an incomplete team, and they took him. Likewise, the Ravens spent a first on Lamar even though they had a vet in place.
You know Baltimore took a TE before taking Lamar, right?>
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In comment 15374208 GNewGiants said:
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In comment 15374202 Producer said:
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Assuming Jones isnt the answer- isnt that we just did with him in 2019? Why make the same mistake twice?
The game within the game in the NFL is to acquire an elite QB by any means necessary. Andy Reid knew it when he took Mahomes, even though he had a solid vet. Shanny Jr knew it when he traded up to get Lance, even though he had a QB who took him to a Super Bowl. If we don't learn that lesson, the pain will continue for another decade. We don't have an elite QB yet with Jones. Without one of the elite 8 to 10, you have almost no shot to win a Super Bowl in today's NFL. This is game theory.
But the Qbs in this year crop arent sure fire picks. Lot of questions with all of them.
well let's see how they rate out by end of the year. The Sporting News has QBs at 3, 4 and 5 (Rattler-Willis-Howell). If they suck, then we may need to sign or trade for a vet (Rodgers/Watson?).
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Assuming they are still ranked where they are now come April. They mentioned it on the broadcast yesterday, but the way you build a successful team is to look at what Buffalo and Baltimore did. You build the offensive and defensive lines, then find the QB that fits what you are looking to accomplish.
You take the QB when he is there for you. You don't wait. Buffalo liked Allen, even though they were an incomplete team, and they took him. Likewise, the Ravens spent a first on Lamar even though they had a vet in place.
If there is a Burrow or Trevor Lawrence at the top then absolutely. Otherwise let's not try and convince ourselves into a QB and build the foundation for the next year.
houston and Atlanta will be looking for QBs soon!
It's like people don't think about timelines and contracts. That shit matters.
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In comment 15374225 Everyone Relax said:
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Assuming they are still ranked where they are now come April. They mentioned it on the broadcast yesterday, but the way you build a successful team is to look at what Buffalo and Baltimore did. You build the offensive and defensive lines, then find the QB that fits what you are looking to accomplish.
You take the QB when he is there for you. You don't wait. Buffalo liked Allen, even though they were an incomplete team, and they took him. Likewise, the Ravens spent a first on Lamar even though they had a vet in place.
You know Baltimore took a TE before taking Lamar, right?>
I will repeat, the Ravens spent a first round pick on Lamar even though they were a team that was already competitive playoff team with a vet in place. Wherever you think we are as a team in April 2022, if Jones is not absolutely playing at top-8 level, we need to get a QB if we have the #1 and #2 picks.
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In comment 15374225 Everyone Relax said:
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Assuming they are still ranked where they are now come April. They mentioned it on the broadcast yesterday, but the way you build a successful team is to look at what Buffalo and Baltimore did. You build the offensive and defensive lines, then find the QB that fits what you are looking to accomplish.
You take the QB when he is there for you. You don't wait. Buffalo liked Allen, even though they were an incomplete team, and they took him. Likewise, the Ravens spent a first on Lamar even though they had a vet in place.
If there is a Burrow or Trevor Lawrence at the top then absolutely. Otherwise let's not try and convince ourselves into a QB and build the foundation for the next year.
excuse me.. i'll take a Zach Wilson or Trey Lance as well.
And I'd bring in Mike McDaniel from San Fran as the new HC
I don't think you do get it.
You don't want to force a QB if there's not a great one to take. In that event, agree with bw that trading out of one of the picks for 2023 ammunition makes sense, but man how depressing is that to think about! Need impact pass rushers. Look for Front 7 picks to make up 2 of our first 3 picks.
Their first round picks got a lot better later that decade as they started drafting future HoFs almost every year.
Good start? He’s had one good game out of two
excuse me.. i'll take a Zach Wilson or Trey Lance as well.
Based on what they have done? They are still unknowns at this point.
No you don't. The question is do you pay him $30 million+/year because that's what the market is.
If you don't think he's worth that investment you need to think about moving on.
Or maybe fire Gettleman.
Take your pick
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Assuming Jones isnt the answer- isnt that we just did with him in 2019? Why make the same mistake twice?
Good point.
Let's stop trying to find the right guy so we can avoid picking the wrong guy along the way.
2. DC
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you've made it your goal to blast Jones every day for 2 years. Now that he's off to a good start to the season it'll be something else that you have with him.
No you don't. The question is do you pay him $30 million+/year because that's what the market is.
If you don't think he's worth that investment you need to think about moving on.
Totally different question, so if you honestly don't believe he's the guy, why the fuck would you move on from a cost controlled QB? Even the haters can admit he's worth much more than his contract right now. And then they'd be bitching about "forcing" a QB when the next guy isn't that good.
The other pick would absolutely need to be shopped to a QB-hungry team and see what they are willing to pay. If it is a haul (and it should be) then pull the trigger and add more talent all over the roster.
100% get a frachise LT and a franchise edge and prosper.
f*ck the QB....I want elite o-line and dline.
Go Terps' issue with Daniel Jones runs deeper than whether or not Jones is a good QB. Even if Jones develops into a top 10 QB, Go Terps wouldn't want Jones to get a 2nd contract. He views QBs as easily replaceable for some reason and doesn't even think "his boy" Lamar should get a 2nd contract.
Having said that, you telling other posters that they should "join another message board" or "root for another team" just because they disagree with you is actually the shit that's tiresome.
Let's stop trying to find the right guy so we can avoid picking the wrong guy along the way.
You dont have to find the guy with your top 2 pick, especially if he is not worth the value. Thats the point. We did that with Jones in 2019 when clearly he wasnt a top 10 pick. Why force a pick on a QB if there are better prospects at postion of need?
I mean do we not need an edge rusher and an OT? Those two position seem to be quite valuable in the league.
If the Giants are that poor he was not even close to being good enough.
The criticism I had of Gettleman in 2019 is that I didn't think there was truly an elite QB talent in that draft. People are going to say Kyler Murray, and I suppose that's the one guy, but he went #1 overall and we picked 6th. And to be honest, I don't like QBs that are 5'8". I watch Murray and I just think he's going to break. I hope I'm wrong. The one guy I liked was Drew Lock. But I greatly softened on him after reports came out that his teammates didn't really like him. Still not sure what's up with him, but I liked him, perhaps not enough to draft at #6, because you have to check all the boxes at the top of the draft.
So for me, the play was to get the best two players you could and get a QB in 2020, when you had Burrow, Tua, and Herbert coming out. Obviously, nobody was really on Burrow in April of 2019, who could've predicted what he was about to do, but I digress. There was also a chance that Trevor Lawrence was going to come out in that draft as well.
So I thought Gettleman should've gone with Josh Allen and BPA at 17, perhaps still Dexter Lawrence.
If something similar happens this year, I would trade down to acquire draft capital in 2023, because I want to be able to target my QB in a draft where I can get a really good one. I don't see yet the elite guy I want as my franchise QB in the 2021 draft. So the worst thing you can do is force it. Get some extra draft picks, just make sure you get a top pass rusher in this draft while doing it (Thibodeaux?)
Well at least he s consistent. But have to admit, seems odd to double down on his take following last night s performance by Jones.
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Terps - we get it man. Just go join another message board at this point. Shit is so tiresome.
Well at least he s consistent. But have to admit, seems odd to double down on his take following last night s performance by Jones.
How so when performances like last night have been the exception not the rule his whole career?
Yes I get that. But the third season hasn’t played out yet and in my opinion there were indications that maybe a light went on for Jones last night
Perhaps Terps should temper his remarks with, baring continued improvement as we saw last night, they should draft a quarterback
Unless I m misunderstanding, I get the idea Terps wasn’t too impress with the performance of Jones last night.
That would seem to be unfair.
I think Jones has really improved In Spite of the poor coaching and play calling.
Think of it this way. It took Phil Simms 5 years to prove he was a starting QB. Daniel Jones is way more talented and gifted at his age and experience now in year 3 then Phil was in Year 5. I am trying to say Daniel Jones is way ahead of Phil Simms in his development curve and it would be foolish to throw that away. We just need better coaching and playcalling.
I think even Phil Simms would agree with what I said.
I think Jones has really improved In Spite of the poor coaching and play calling.
Think of it this way. It took Phil Simms 5 years to prove he was a starting QB. Daniel Jones is way more talented and gifted at his age and experience now in year 3 then Phil was in Year 5. I am trying to say Daniel Jones is way ahead of Phil Simms in his development curve and it would be foolish to throw that away. We just need better coaching and playcalling.
I think even Phil Simms would agree with what I said.
please refrain from comparing today's NFL to the league 40 years ago. While you are waiting for a middling QB to become something, other teams seize the opportunity to snag elite QBs and do fast turnarounds. If you are babying a QB in 2021, you are losing.
The closest Simms to DJ in age are Phil's grandkids.
The development of Phil Simms has zero relevance to the modern NFL. It would be like comparing Phil to players in the 1940s
There is no comparison. Phil Simms had a rocket arm and was an elite passer.
It took Phil Simms his first 5 GAMES to prove he was a high level NFL starting QB. He won all 5 of them on a team that finished with 6 total wins and started out 0-5 sound familiar?
What took 5 years was for the Giants to find an OL to protect him. He got the crap beat out of him early in his career. That's about all Daniel Jones has in common with Phil Simms.
I felt bad for Jones last night. He played his ass off and had 2 TD's that somehow stayed out fo the end zone on phantom hold and a pass a couples of inches too far to a guy with bad hands, that the high level NFL receivers catch easily.
But he has to score touchdowns. Regardless of the horrible play calling he has to get the ball in the end zone or he's not worth paying. 15 more chances to convince everyone.
Or maybe fire Gettleman.
Take your pick
OLs have the highest hit rate in the first round.
If you have a competent GM who can actually find the right OLs, you take OLs. Because it's clearer than ever you can't have enough good OLs at this point.
One
Two
I think this is getting lost in the noise. They are not that bad and neither are the Bears. I don't know how you watch last night and think this is not at least an NFL middling team, the coaching is killing it. Easily could be sitting at 1-1 (and yes I get it we aren't) but that game was lost much more than it was won by WFT. We got outcoached....again. Just not as bad as last week.
It's not touch football, DJ is being rushed and was hit on the play.
He sees Slayton breaking free but he still has to throw the pass where it's intended.
You act like Jones was back there, saw him 10 yards open, then winged it.
It means 2021 was an utter disaster and he should be canned.
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he isn't viewing the Giant's future through a 1 game prism. 1 game is great, but he hasn't yet been consistent to justify being part of the long term plans.
Yes I get that. But the third season hasn’t played out yet and in my opinion there were indications that maybe a light went on for Jones last night
If the light really went on last night, Giants aren't getting #1 or #2 with their own pick
Have you seen our defense make Teddy Bridgewater and Taylor Heinicke look like Pat Mahomes? What do you think will happen when they ACTUALLY play Pat Mahomes later this year?
Jones could play quite well and this team still finish with 1-2 wins this year at the rate the defense is going.
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No, they draft the two best special teams aces available! Preferably at least one of them will have been caught with a loaded bazooka in his trunk.
Our team now is alot of finess with a running QB.
It means 2021 was an utter disaster and he should be canned.
Afraid Gettleman might go Running Back and Fullback with the two picks?
I would trade too far back but either pick should get you at least 2 more first-round picks and some others in the 2nd-3rd rounds
I would trade too far back but either pick should get you at least 2 more first-round picks and some others in the 2nd-3rd rounds
Correction:
I wouldn't trade too far back
That said, even if Jones isn’t the guy I don’t see the point of force feeding a QB with a premium pick. Not a fan of the QBs in this class. I’d prefer to take the talent which will be at edge and OT, which the Giants desperately need.
The focus of this organization should be to win the line of scrimmage. They’ve burned enough resources on shiny toys on both sides of the ball.
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Available. Dont force a qb. If jones really sucks we can take one in 2023 where there is a better batch. That said, Giants will not be that bad. they will be drafting both picks in top 15 but not 1-2/
I think this is getting lost in the noise. They are not that bad and neither are the Bears. I don't know how you watch last night and think this is not at least an NFL middling team, the coaching is killing it. Easily could be sitting at 1-1 (and yes I get it we aren't) but that game was lost much more than it was won by WFT. We got outcoached....again. Just not as bad as last week.
That was an entertaining game between 2 of the worst 5-10 teams in the NFL. Broncos will get killed in their division...WTF is a bad team in a terrible division. The Bears will go as far as Fields take them, they're most likely going to have 2 wins (maybe CIN, and DET...the rest of their early schedule is a bitch other than LV) in their first 8 games.
I agree both are better than JAX, HOU, and DET...but 2 top 8 picks is very possible.
Stop pinning the Giants poor record on Jones. This team has been bad not just Jones.
Tight Ends
Guards/Tackles
Edge Rushers (4-3 ends, 3-4 rushbackers)
SAM linebacker (different kind of OLB that can play the run and jam/man cover tight ends, think Carl Banks)
Safeties
Of course, this is dependent on who leaves via free agency at the end of the season, with Evan Engram, Will Hernandez, Lorenzo Carter, and Jabrill Peppers not under contract after the 2021 season.
Jon, I don't think anybody is saying they should draft a QB no matter what, but there is a good chance that 2 or 3 of the QBs we are talking about are solidly in the top 5 to top-8 conversation. With QB being the most important position, by far, in football, taking a top QB, a legit high on the board player, makes sense. The problem with the Jones pick is that he was #100 on some boards. Many had him as a 2nd or 3rd round player. The reach was obvious. But Rattler, Willis, Howell will likely be rated much higher. And then if the decision makers love the player, then the QB trumps EDGE or OL - even though those positions are very valuable. No? Curious about your thoughts on this.