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Where do we go with this team...

kelsto811 : 9/17/2021 1:02 pm
I know it's week 2 but this is just another horrible start for the Giants that feels all too familiar.. God forbid the defense stays like this all year and the Giants win 4 games, 6 max...where would you go with this team from here? I honestly don't know anymore...
Gettleman is gone immediately.  
SirLoinOfBeef : 9/17/2021 1:13 pm : link
Retired, whatever I don't care. New GM is brought in ASAP from the outside and objectively diagnosis the organization's issues. Don't wait until after the season, they might not be there if we wait too long.

Judge and his staff are now auditioning for next year. So are players who have contracts that need to be addressed.

Never gonna happen.

Have you seen anything the first  
nygfaninorlando : 9/17/2021 1:15 pm : link
2 games that makes even 4-6 wins possible? Maybe Falcons? Maybe Bears? WFT and Eagles at home?

In a league tilted towards offense and where other teams play to win, the Giants are way too conservative on both sides of the ball and play not too lose. Not to mention continued mental mistakes and untimely penalties.

Playing for a first down after the INT was the way to go, not running Barkley twice into an 8 man line and throwing 3rd down pass short of the sticks. How do you get a false start/delay of game coming out of a timeout on 3rd and 2?
......  
Route 9 : 9/17/2021 1:16 pm : link
Get rid of Engram and all the other dead weight

(I guess the whole team)
Fire Gettleman of course  
Jerry in_DC : 9/17/2021 1:18 pm : link
The next GM will be an upgrade. It is not possible to find someone dumber than him.

If Jones is good, which is possible, but not likely, we're on a 2 year rebuild schedule.

If Jones is not good, its a complete teardown- keep guys like Thomas and some of the recent picks. Hope we're good in 3-4 years
I've felt right from the get-go that the 2021 team  
M.S. : 9/17/2021 1:22 pm : link

had 5-7 wins in it max.

So far, smells like the lower end of that range.

If the Giants  
Mike from SI : 9/17/2021 1:22 pm : link
wind up missing the playoffs, it's time to clean house. Not just Gettelman, but Abrams, all the other high-ranking front office people, and the entire coaching staff. Throw an ass-ton of money at someone from one of the good front offices like the Ravens or Chiefs. (I'd include Steelers but I'm sick of the Maras hiring people they're buddies with; I want someone totally new and independent.)
RE: Fire Gettleman of course  
M.S. : 9/17/2021 1:23 pm : link
In comment 15374331 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
The next GM will be an upgrade. It is not possible to find someone dumber than him.

If Jones is good, which is possible, but not likely, we're on a 2 year rebuild schedule.

If Jones is not good, its a complete teardown- keep guys like Thomas and some of the recent picks. Hope we're good in 3-4 years

Sounds about right.
They will likely be 1-6 or 2-7 or something like that.  
cosmicj : 9/17/2021 1:26 pm : link
At that point, Mara needs to initiate a league-wide GM search, a real one headed by a respected independent personnel executive, and assemble a short list of very talented assistant GMs. DG will retire with honor (life isn’t fair). The hired GM will be given unfettered decisionmaking.
.  
Go Terps : 9/17/2021 1:26 pm : link
1. Fire Gettleman and Abrams immediately and initiate a GM search informed primarily by Judge
2. Make every player on the roster available for trade; do everything possible to accumulate draft picks and take it on the chin with dead money sooner rather than later

We've got to clean up before rebuilding.
Fire DG and go outside the Mara Circle of Trust for a replacement.  
bceagle05 : 9/17/2021 1:28 pm : link
If Kevin Abrams get the job I'm gonna flip out - dude's been assistant GM here forever and has never sniffed a GM opening around the league, not even during the Super Bowl years when assistant GMs on such teams are always poached.
RE: .  
Mike from SI : 9/17/2021 1:29 pm : link
In comment 15374353 Go Terps said:
Quote:
1. Fire Gettleman and Abrams immediately and initiate a GM search informed primarily by Judge
2. Make every player on the roster available for trade; do everything possible to accumulate draft picks and take it on the chin with dead money sooner rather than later

We've got to clean up before rebuilding.


I don't understand why you want to stick with Judge. The challenge flag costing us a timeout was unforgivable. Getting a delay of game after a timeout is embarrassing in pee-wee football. This team is not well-coached.
RE: .  
family progtitioner : 9/17/2021 1:29 pm : link
In comment 15374353 Go Terps said:
Quote:
1. Fire Gettleman and Abrams immediately and initiate a GM search informed primarily by Judge
2. Make every player on the roster available for trade; do everything possible to accumulate draft picks and take it on the chin with dead money sooner rather than later

We've got to clean up before rebuilding.


Why stick with Judge? Tear the whole thing down IMO
Judge has had a rough couple games  
Go Terps : 9/17/2021 1:33 pm : link
I'm not ready to throw him out yet based on that. He has been coaching with a hand tied behind his back with this roster. I want to see a project headed by him and a competent GM working in tandem. We haven't seen that yet.
We  
AcidTest : 9/17/2021 1:36 pm : link
could easily be 1-8 at the bye, and that's only because I give us a slight edge facing the Falcons at home. The rest of the schedule until the bye is brutal. After the bye we may beat the Eagles and the WFT at home, and perhaps one other game. But right now this looks like a team that will at best finish 5-12.

I agree if that happens everyone should be fired, perhaps including Judge. We are the worst team in the entire league since 2017, 18-48 I think.
The early returns are ugly  
Mike from Ohio : 9/17/2021 1:36 pm : link
but it is still only week 2. I am trying to keep myself hopeful at least until hockey season starts.

I don't expect the rest of the season to go well, but there is no point in firing everyone now. Begin compiling a list of potential GMs and start doing some background work.

If the season is still off the rails a couple of weeks before the trade deadline, you fire Gettleman and instruct Abrams to start exploring trades with an eye to a full rebuild. You leave Judge in place until after you hire a new GM who has full authority to keep or release him.
The problem with keeping Gettleman for now  
Go Terps : 9/17/2021 1:39 pm : link
What if someone approaches us about trading Barkley, or even Jones? We should jump at such an opportunity, but would Gettleman?
I'm absolutely on board with firing Gettleman  
kelsto811 : 9/17/2021 1:40 pm : link
But I have 0 faith in Mara to get the next guy right...how can I?
RE: The problem with keeping Gettleman for now  
kelsto811 : 9/17/2021 1:41 pm : link
In comment 15374388 Go Terps said:
Quote:
What if someone approaches us about trading Barkley, or even Jones? We should jump at such an opportunity, but would Gettleman?


No, he wouldn't. Also not sure if he should, Saquon's value is at an all time low and we may be better off waiting to see if he can get back to where he was, he showed flashes last night
RE: I'm absolutely on board with firing Gettleman  
Go Terps : 9/17/2021 1:42 pm : link
In comment 15374389 kelsto811 said:
Quote:
But I have 0 faith in Mara to get the next guy right...how can I?


That's part of the reason to keep Judge - I trust him to find a GM more than I do Mara. If Judge is at least in the room for that decision it's better than Mara on his own. His first fucking call would probably be to Accorsi.
RE: .  
Sean : 9/17/2021 1:43 pm : link
In comment 15374353 Go Terps said:
Quote:
1. Fire Gettleman and Abrams immediately and initiate a GM search informed primarily by Judge
2. Make every player on the roster available for trade; do everything possible to accumulate draft picks and take it on the chin with dead money sooner rather than later

We've got to clean up before rebuilding.

I agree with this. I’d give the interim job to Kyle O’Brien and immediately trade off any player you can for assets.
.  
Go Terps : 9/17/2021 1:43 pm : link
As for Barkley I'm no longer worried about waiting to see if he bounces back. If someone wants him, trade him.

It's time for a fresh perspective. Blank slate time.
It looks  
Joey in VA : 9/17/2021 1:48 pm : link
Like a 3-5 win team and has since training camp. We rob Peter (the DL) to pay Paul (the OL) because our idiot GM can't evaluate talent and instead of shoring up the OL, he takes an idiot WR. Then we move our best OL to a position he's unfamiliar with and he's lost for the year. The big $ FAs have done absolutely dick in two weeks and it's because they haven't practiced enough because they are injury prone players who we wildly overpaid. We are in dire cap straights and we have very little talent that can we can count on to be healthy. Gettleman is an absolute disaster as is the entire scouting department.
So move on from the current rebuilding plan and  
NYGgolfer : 9/17/2021 1:57 pm : link
start yet another one?

Just restructured a bunch of deals earlier this month. Abrams noted that things were going to be tough with their cap in 2022.
RE: So move on from the current rebuilding plan and  
Mike from SI : 9/17/2021 1:58 pm : link
In comment 15374424 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
start yet another one?

Just restructured a bunch of deals earlier this month. Abrams noted that things were going to be tough with their cap in 2022.


Yes. If you start building a house and the foundation is cracked and you know the building can never stand up, you don't keep going just for the sake of it.
RE: So move on from the current rebuilding plan and  
Go Terps : 9/17/2021 1:59 pm : link
In comment 15374424 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
start yet another one?

Just restructured a bunch of deals earlier this month. Abrams noted that things were going to be tough with their cap in 2022.


This isn't a plan.
There has never been a plan here..  
Sean : 9/17/2021 2:00 pm : link
Everything has been reactionary under Gettleman. It has been an extension of the later part of Reese’s tenure.
If we're talking about  
Jerry in_DC : 9/17/2021 2:03 pm : link
actually being a good team - the kind that wins playoff games - 2022 is not happening. Might as well take the hit there.

But We don't have to cut everyone. Even Among the many foolish things Gettleman did, was running decent players out of town. Guys like Okwara, Kennard, even Goodson have been NFL contributors and they were cheap. The next GM should find a few guys who can play on this team. But don't get your hopes up for actual success for a few years.
Check out this Lions interview of O’Brien.  
cosmicj : 9/17/2021 2:04 pm : link
You be the judge. Right now, the FA signings that have O’Briens stamp on them (Golladay, Ragland, the two Vikes players) haven’t been exciting.

When O’Brien was hired, I thought he was a Judge insider candidate and seeing he went to Harvard I was expecting an obviously smart individual. (I need to rid myself of this bias, I know, I know…) Then I sat through this interview. I don’t want to make any final judgement but I am really concerned about this development now.
Kyle O’brien interview - ( New Window )
Instead of being the same old chicken hawk organization  
Route 9 : 9/17/2021 2:21 pm : link
Make a move. Fire Judge right now lol

What are we really missing out on here? I thought Shurmhr should have been fired after the Eagles game in 2018.

It's not like this team doesn't like to waste money and everybody else's time.

"Not gonna sign him to trade him" or pay a 40 year old to play three games after drafting a new QB.

What a bunch of bullshit.
I expect them to ride it out  
JonC : 9/17/2021 2:25 pm : link
and if they're out of the playoff chase by trade deadline time, start trying to move talent (contracts) for draft picks and cap space. Get as lean as you can, and load up for the next offseason. The expensive contracts given to the top signings (and their injury histories) only run two more years each, and there's probably enough cap space ahead where they could cut bait and eat some cap mistakes.

The drafting is where I smh, the top prospects have got to ascend on gameday and show more. Build off this performance, as ugly as some aspects where, there was a sense of attack and confidence we had not seen in awhile.

Here's the rub though, I highly doubt NYG moves on from Jones after this season. I just doubt they look at the situation and decide two years for this coaching staff plus Jones is fair, unless it becomes obvious (eg, Shumur and Bettcher) they're in way over their heads and it's time for changes. NYG is invested in Jones and their other draft picks and who they are as young men. 2021 remains a crucial season of let's see what they've got.
JonC  
Sean : 9/17/2021 2:30 pm : link
Any thoughts on what will shake out with GM? I can’t imagine Gettleman is back.
Nothing yet based on any intel  
JonC : 9/17/2021 2:34 pm : link
I just hope if they decide it's time for a GM change they do not elevate from within. Suspect they need external voices from outside the echo chamber, especially with regards to college scouting.
More games like last night from Jones with also continuing  
NYGgolfer : 9/17/2021 2:36 pm : link
improvement in some of his key areas and they shouldn't need to move on from him.

However, if his season becomes indifferent then shouldn't assume he will continue to keep Judge's support. We won't hear anything like that publicly of course but Judge should be smart enough not to know he has to get a winner at QB, along with more on the roster. That will be his responsibility soon.
RE: I expect them to ride it out  
AcidTest : 9/17/2021 2:38 pm : link
In comment 15374485 JonC said:
Quote:
and if they're out of the playoff chase by trade deadline time, start trying to move talent (contracts) for draft picks and cap space. Get as lean as you can, and load up for the next offseason. The expensive contracts given to the top signings (and their injury histories) only run two more years each, and there's probably enough cap space ahead where they could cut bait and eat some cap mistakes.

The drafting is where I smh, the top prospects have got to ascend on gameday and show more. Build off this performance, as ugly as some aspects where, there was a sense of attack and confidence we had not seen in awhile.

Here's the rub though, I highly doubt NYG moves on from Jones after this season. I just doubt they look at the situation and decide two years for this coaching staff plus Jones is fair, unless it becomes obvious (eg, Shumur and Bettcher) they're in way over their heads and it's time for changes. NYG is invested in Jones and their other draft picks and who they are as young men. 2021 remains a crucial season of let's see what they've got.


I'm sure they will "ride out" this season, and start trying to sell at the trade deadline if they have no chance of making the playoffs. But isn't that the problem? That's what losing teams in almost all sports try and do before their respective trade deadline. It's a sign the team has given up on the season and is looking to "rebuild." That's the Giants. We're constantly "rebuilding" because we make terrible moves in the draft and FA.

This is a critical year for Jones. It's possible that he could play well even if the team finishes 4-13 or 5-12. But if he doesn't, then any "rebuilding" should include moving on from him as well. A new GM will probably also want his own QB.
Acid  
JonC : 9/17/2021 2:46 pm : link
Despite all the draft resources, all the pro personnel scouting, the UFA dollars spent, the time assessing, testing, assembling, building ... has all resulted in a team that lacks top players on offense, and its best defenders are off to slow starts.

They've got to overcome the personnel issues, be it the guys performing better, or improving all the self-scouting and external scouting. Right now, they have a number of key holes that have persisted for several years! The personnel scouting has to improve.
Organizational house cleaning  
jeff57 : 9/17/2021 2:49 pm : link
Top to bottom is what is needed. The Maras need to get out of the way and bring in a GM and president from outside the organization to run things. They need a new George Young.
cosmic  
JonC : 9/17/2021 2:52 pm : link
It's cringe worthy for sure, last thing we need is another frump they're familiar with who can't carry on a decent interview.
Monti Ossenfort could be a name to watch..  
Sean : 9/17/2021 2:55 pm : link
I also wouldn’t rule out Pioli or Dimitroff if they go outside (especially if they keep Judge).
there's only 1 path now - trust that Judge will make the right changes  
Eric on Li : 9/17/2021 2:59 pm : link
that's it right now. He is the leader. He was hired to be the leader. His fingerprints are all over the roster and coaching staff. This is the group they are riding with this season and the results will be whatever they will be.

if it makes you feel better he did make major adjustments to the offense in the span of 4 days. So cleaning up a few penalties (which they were relatively good at last year), and the defense (which they did last year), and coach a little more aggressive should be doable. Key word being "should". The guy's literal job is on the line so I think we can trust the motivation is there. Is he the real deal?
RE: More games like last night from Jones with also continuing  
kelsto811 : 9/17/2021 3:20 pm : link
In comment 15374502 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
improvement in some of his key areas and they shouldn't need to move on from him.

However, if his season becomes indifferent then shouldn't assume he will continue to keep Judge's support. We won't hear anything like that publicly of course but Judge should be smart enough not to know he has to get a winner at QB, along with more on the roster. That will be his responsibility soon.


I'm a huge Jones fan but I'm not sure about starting over with him again. It would be his 3rd offense in 4 seasons, he's never had a running game, his WRs have let him down (one year they had him throwing to CJ Board and Alex Bechman), he clrarly thrives when he can throw the deep ball and yet we have 2 straight years of Jason Garrett's 3 yard route tree offense. Every mistake he makes is amplified bc of his turnover problem year 1 and I think it is mentally draining...NY fans and media shit on him worse than Eli but Eli was a stone with that stuff + he constantly had a supporting cast. I'd almost rather see Jones go to the Steelers where they'll let him loose, rather than starting over with this franchise again
RE: Acid  
kelsto811 : 9/17/2021 3:25 pm : link
In comment 15374526 JonC said:
Quote:
Despite all the draft resources, all the pro personnel scouting, the UFA dollars spent, the time assessing, testing, assembling, building ... has all resulted in a team that lacks top players on offense, and its best defenders are off to slow starts.

They've got to overcome the personnel issues, be it the guys performing better, or improving all the self-scouting and external scouting. Right now, they have a number of key holes that have persisted for several years! The personnel scouting has to improve.


Absolutely and onviously the collegiate scouting has just not been on par with the rest of the league. I think they even fired most of their ssnior scouts recently if I'm not mistaken. Again. I know it's game 2 but it seems like picking a gadget WR when you were sitting at pick 11 may not have been the best idea? Baffling draft day decision after baffling draft day decision
RE: Judge has had a rough couple games  
BigBlueinDE : 9/17/2021 3:48 pm : link
In comment 15374372 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I'm not ready to throw him out yet based on that. He has been coaching with a hand tied behind his back with this roster. I want to see a project headed by him and a competent GM working in tandem. We haven't seen that yet.


Inclined to agree.
You guys can speculate all you want  
Dave on the UWS : 9/17/2021 6:30 pm : link
but Judge will be here for quite awhile yet. He will have a hand in picking the next GM.. which won’t be bad because it won’t be someone in house (probably).
RE: So move on from the current rebuilding plan and  
Section331 : 9/17/2021 6:40 pm : link
In comment 15374424 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
start yet another one?

Just restructured a bunch of deals earlier this month. Abrams noted that things were going to be tough with their cap in 2022.


If they win 5-6 games AND are up against the cap, what other argument for blowing it up do you need?
I agree that there are benefits  
santacruzom : 9/17/2021 6:43 pm : link
to removing Gettleman now. There's a risk that if he's still around during a rough stretch, he'll make decisions that harm our future (or won't make decisions to help it) for the sake of short term gains intended to improve this season.

We've heard rumors of, say, him declining high pick trades for Engram. Perhaps a new GM acts upon those trades.
RE: RE: So move on from the current rebuilding plan and  
nygiants16 : 9/17/2021 6:45 pm : link
In comment 15374813 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15374424 NYGgolfer said:


Quote:


start yet another one?

Just restructured a bunch of deals earlier this month. Abrams noted that things were going to be tough with their cap in 2022.



If they win 5-6 games AND are up against the cap, what other argument for blowing it up do you need?


They wont be up against the cap for long, it will start to go back up,every team is doing the same thing the giants are because of the low cap
RE: RE: Acid  
JonC : 9/17/2021 8:33 pm : link
In comment 15374602 kelsto811 said:
Quote:
In comment 15374526 JonC said:


Quote:


Despite all the draft resources, all the pro personnel scouting, the UFA dollars spent, the time assessing, testing, assembling, building ... has all resulted in a team that lacks top players on offense, and its best defenders are off to slow starts.

They've got to overcome the personnel issues, be it the guys performing better, or improving all the self-scouting and external scouting. Right now, they have a number of key holes that have persisted for several years! The personnel scouting has to improve.



Absolutely and onviously the collegiate scouting has just not been on par with the rest of the league. I think they even fired most of their ssnior scouts recently if I'm not mistaken. Again. I know it's game 2 but it seems like picking a gadget WR when you were sitting at pick 11 may not have been the best idea? Baffling draft day decision after baffling draft day decision


I would've picked Parsons. Hate the Toney pick.
JonC,  
Arnie D. : 9/18/2021 12:14 am : link
Do you know who was pushing the hardest for Toney?
only playing game 3  
xtian : 9/20/2021 7:14 pm : link
the first game was lousy offense and second was lousy defense. i expect them to get better. remember in 2007 they started off 0-2 and looked bad and was losing game 3 17-3 until they had a goal line stand that changed the momentum and the season. let's relax a bit and see how it plays out.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/20/2021 7:18 pm : link
If we lose vs. ATL, I'd fire Gettleman before sunset.
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