Watching this team it’s obvious to me:
1) This team is closer (but maybe not that close) to prolonged relevance than any time since 2012
2) So many of the mistakes from the last several years still haunt them
This is why I want the Giants to upgrade management. You have to get most of your moves right. Even if they don’t pay dividends right away.
Judge is a young coach, who is learning. He’s learning how to manage games, manage teams, and architect teams. He needs a better co-pilot on the latter. I want him to be the principal, but he needs a more help.
I watch this team and it’s so clear where the big holes are. The Giants have big trouble on the right side of the offensive line. They have big trouble at arguably 3 of the 4 linebacker positions. They have big trouble at nose tackle.
And it’s so damn frustrating because they’ve invested in those areas, only to either fall flat or lose ground the last few years.
So next time anyone underplays resource management, draft pick hits and misses, losing good players, trading for bad players etc. — remember this what you get.
A team that’s almost there, but seemingly, perpetually, graining slow ground.
We have zero great players and a few good players. We're not in a great cap position. Are we close to challenging to .500? Maybe an argument could be constructed. Are we close to being good? No way.
We haven't even played a good team yet.
Not sure if we are that short of resources but we should divest from some this coming year.....
The defense play is mindboggling....which right I now blame the painter.
Some answers need to be determined.
The lack of correct talent evaluation at the field level is strange.
The defense and Saquon need to improve immediately in the next two weeks and DJ needs to hold the level of play he showed last night. If that happens, we can win. All the outside noise - the "look at the schedule," "look at Golladay and Toney being frustrated" - will be amplified or silenced based on the performance on the field.
Coughlin used to break the season into quarters. In my view, you now have the first four games - a glorified preseason - then the five games before the bye (@DAL, LAR, CAR, @KC, LV), which I think is where our season will be decided. If we can get it together in the next two games, 3-2 will be realistic in that stretch and 3-7 is the worst-case scenario at the bye.
The back half of the season gets a lot easier. There is only one seemingly impossible game (@TB). Otherwise, it's 4 division games and 3 beatable opponents (MIA, CHI, LAC).
in the first 2 weeks of this year, conservative strategies took away the players opportunity to win the game. Not being more aggressive on the drive that started on the 4 vs. Denver, not being more attack oriented on defense, and last night on the last 2 possessions.
If Judge is the right guy he will adjust and then we will see how good this roster is.
Jones has it in him to play at that level. The Giants need to figure out the combination of personal development, surrounding talent, and play calling to keep him there.
I’ve always maintained he has the talent to be a good, not great QB.
I’m not sure he’s a championship level QB, but they have 30+ games to make that determination.
This team has enough talent to win the division. Judge coached like a manager last night. Unfortunately what was missing was a leader and there is a very clear distinction between the two. So before adding a co-pilot I think he should add some wins imo.
The big positive is Jones performance. It made me at least think maybe he can be a legit starting QB.
He coached his 18th career game last night. I agree if by game 33 he’s still sloppy, it’s worrisome.
He’s encountering a lot of these scenarios as the decision maker for the first time ever in his career.
This is part of the cost of a guy in his 30s who has never been a head coach on any level.
I don’t think winning and adding a better general manger need to be tied. Are you saying if the Giants don’t win, they shouldn’t hire a better GM?
On offense, Judge and Garrett need to put Jones in a position to succeed like they did last night. Hopefully it’s a sign that he turned a corner as he made big plays and didn’t turn the ball over.
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This team has enough talent to win the division. Judge coached like a manager last night. Unfortunately what was missing was a leader and there is a very clear distinction between the two. So before adding a co-pilot I think he should add some wins imo.
I don’t think winning and adding a better general manger need to be tied. Are you saying if the Giants don’t win, they shouldn’t hire a better GM?
I think his point is that before adding another voice into the equation (whoever that might be) it would be helpful to see where there's progress and where there isn't.
Consider these 2 different hypotheticals:
1. Judge wins 10 games with this roster and a few of Andrew Thomas/McKinney/Toney/Ojulari are stars.
2. Judge wins 5 games or less and 1 or more of the recent high picks go the way of Deandre Baker.
in either scenario wouldn't there potentially be different solutions required? In the first maybe more of a supporting voice that won't get in the way of the current group and in the latter perhaps a stronger voice that would potentially reduce some of Judge's involvement in personnel?
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This team has enough talent to win the division. Judge coached like a manager last night. Unfortunately what was missing was a leader and there is a very clear distinction between the two. So before adding a co-pilot I think he should add some wins imo.
I don’t think winning and adding a better general manger need to be tied. Are you saying if the Giants don’t win, they shouldn’t hire a better GM?
I do not see where last night's was a GM issue and I am not even a big DG fan of his. So bringing in a GM won't mean much if you have the wrong HC which is why I said he needs to win more games. I put last night's game on Judge and I am a big fan of his. So before bringing in a new GM let's make sure we have the right coach.
I 100% agree. At the end of the year, I want the Giants to look at team architecture, pro personnel, and scouting and hire a better GM who compliments Judge in the areas he needs help.
I predict the Giants made some crucial errors in personnel this offseason (happy to look at this at the EOY).
I think whether the current GM is a big or small voice, I think he’s a shitty voice. Regardless of the volume Judge needs, I want it to be quality.
Can you clean up the bad penalties in big spots, dropped passes, and bad play calling.
This coaching staff need to look inward.
They did not do enough in the off-season to get this team ready to play.
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in either scenario wouldn't there potentially be different solutions required? In the first maybe more of a supporting voice that won't get in the way of the current group and in the latter perhaps a stronger voice that would potentially reduce some of Judge's involvement in personnel?
I 100% agree. At the end of the year, I want the Giants to look at team architecture, pro personnel, and scouting and hire a better GM who compliments Judge in the areas he needs help.
I predict the Giants made some crucial errors in personnel this offseason (happy to look at this at the EOY).
I think whether the current GM is a big or small voice, I think he’s a shitty voice. Regardless of the volume Judge needs, I want it to be quality.
I agree with this and actually share your concerns. I know Golladay never separates but he looks a little bigger and slower than he did in Detroit. And obviously Toney's start isn't encouraging.
But I do think again it all comes down to Judge. I think he has been the leading voice in the personnel the last 2 years. He's a first time head coach so it would be completely normal for him to learn some lessons. Nobody can be completely certain where their blindspots are until they get on the road. After any season there should be changes to address any areas that need them but I'm not sure we're in position right now to do anything more than suggest whatever we wanted to happen last offseason but didn't.
I think the Giants have the talent to beat a bad team like WFT, and this loss falls on Judge. We agree there.
I predict the Giants are really going to suffer from a lack of depth on both lines, and lose a bunch of games where Jones plays well.
That’s where I think the misses since 2018 will really fuck them.
But I agree. The investments have been made to help us score significantly more points and I think that's going to pay dividends this year. So I'm still more bullish than bearish for now. The way the OL held up in the second half will hopefully convey going forward. Plus, I think we are fortunate ATL is coming in next and that should help restore some order.
If we lose to ATL, however, the season will spiral completely out of control.
I think ultimately the most likely outcome is still a Judge/Abrams relationship going forward.
A good personnel organization would have many smart, hard working people contributing to detailed analysis, running scenarios, thinking through every last detail. Gentleman's approach seems to be "hey I like the way that guy looks. Let's get him!"
But I agree. The investments have been made to help us score significantly more points and I think that's going to pay dividends this year. So I'm still more bullish than bearish for now. The way the OL held up in the second half will hopefully convey going forward. Plus, I think we are fortunate ATL is coming in next and that should help restore some order.
If we lose to ATL, however, the season will spiral completely out of control.
It's crazy to think, but there is unbelievable pressure on the team going into ATL because of HOW they looked, not just because of 0-2. I could see a full-on mutiny if we lose to ATL eventually. You saw it cracking last night.
Because the next three games are at New Orleans, at Dallas, Rams.
Hard not to think it is then full mutiny and 0-6 would be staring everyone down.
- 1st round pick
- Golladay money
- Williams money
- Jackson money
And might of some how managed to get worse on both lines, without really upgrading the secondary or skill positions.
I am crossing my fingers the two late additions on the interior are miracles.
I think ultimately the most likely outcome is still a Judge/Abrams relationship going forward.
Based on what's been publicly shown, these two seem like really smart guys who are both ready for their respective chances.
I wish the Giants had either given Shurmur/Gettleman 3 years, or axed them together. The overlap gives too much cover for accountability to be lost.
I think by the end of the year, the consensus will be Judge is a good young coach, who is not immune to making costly mistakes like every other coach.
The Giants simply don't have the talent to overcome flaws on the sideline.
Imagine this, Saquon Barkley gains 10 yards on two carries and ices the game. That'd be pretty cool, and not so outlandish, right?
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And probably not fair considering his age/lack of experience. The silly thing is I know better or should know better about placing expectations on situations I may not know enough about or things that I cannot control.
I think by the end of the year, the consensus will be Judge is a good young coach, who is not immune to making costly mistakes like every other coach.
The Giants simply don't have the talent to overcome flaws on the sideline.
Imagine this, Saquon Barkley gains 10 yards on two carries and ices the game. That'd be pretty cool, and not so outlandish, right?
Christian, I have been more disappointed by the lack of discipline (penalties, guys not lining up correctly, time outs). But, I really need to take a step back from critiquing a coach, for one, and two a coach that would probably throughly embarrass me if I were to bring up my critiques to him.
My guess is you never imagined he’d be perfect, and I imagine he’ll meet your expectations of being pretty good at this stuff over the course of a year.
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Christian, I have been more disappointed by the lack of discipline (penalties, guys not lining up correctly, time outs). But, I really need to take a step back from critiquing a coach, for one, and two a coach that would probably throughly embarrass me if I were to bring up my critiques to him.
My guess is you never imagined he’d be perfect, and I imagine he’ll meet your expectations of being pretty good at this stuff over the course of a year.
👏🎉
- 1st round pick
- Golladay money
- Williams money
- Jackson money
And might of some how managed to get worse on both lines, without really upgrading the secondary or skill positions.
I am crossing my fingers the two late additions on the interior are miracles.
0 evidence they got worse on the OL, if any it's that they've gotten better, and if they did get worse it's because 2 starters are now down for the year.
Jackson and Williams have been pretty good.
The first round pick being traded down and turning into multiple future picks is literally exactly what everyone has wanted for more than a decade. So even if Toney decides to go oceans 11 with Deandre Baker there's still that.
Golladay has made some good catches and missed the 1 big play opportunity he had but it seems undeniable the overall WR core looks a lot more threatening than it has since OBJ.
When you start 0-2 very little is going to look good in that moment. Ironically the 2 biggest questions/concerns going into the season have looked good (Jones & Thomas).
Jackson and Williams have been pretty good.
The first round pick being traded down and turning into multiple future picks is literally exactly what everyone has wanted for more than a decade. So even if Toney decides to go oceans 11 with Deandre Baker there's still that.
Golladay has made some good catches and missed the 1 big play opportunity he had but it seems undeniable the overall WR core looks a lot more threatening than it has since OBJ.
When you start 0-2 very little is going to look good in that moment. Ironically the 2 biggest questions/concerns going into the season have looked good (Jones & Thomas).
Those are certainly your opinions, and a lot of words :)
- I am/was concerned about the frontline and depth talent on the offensive line, I believe Solder, Hernandez, and Price will not hold up, I’m happy to track this over the year
- I believe Jackson has been hit or miss, but more importantly overall the secondary has not done well these two games
- I believe the depth on the defensive line has taken a step back, and that Johnson and Shelton are below replacement players
- I can’t unpack all the things you just rattled off about Toney, but I believe Golladay still has a lot to prove, and the unquestionably best target on the team so far has been Shepard
- Jones and Thomas were certainly not my biggest questions going into the season
Blowing through coaching staffs every two years is an easy way to never turn it around.
I worry if the Giants have a 3-14 type season, Judge will be collateral damage in a full house cleaning.
Judge is now 6–12 as a head coach. I’d love to see him coach his ass off and see home wins here as the season goes on. It would be good for the franchise.
I don't know if I agree with this. I thought the 2016 Giants were going to have a sustained run to end Eli's career but was rapidly proven wrong.
I see the potential for long-term mediocrity. If we lose next week I think the wheels come off and we are looking at a 3-5 win season - a tear down situation where no one is safe. I still see huge questions on the building blocks of the team. I think offense is the most important unit. Jones played superbly Thursday night but has been bad the past year. If he's average, I think that sucks long-term. If he's below average, we're searching for another QB.
I don't see a contender anytime soon. Who are the building blocks that should be here in three years? Andrew Thomas. Leonard Williams. Bradberry will be 31.
I see the rebuilding cycle restarting as more likely than a playoff spot this year or next.