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Coaching blunders

Dukie Dimes : 9/18/2021 12:51 am
I just rewatched the game and was stunned to see all of the coaching blunders committed by the giants staff.

1. Ridiculous use of timeouts throughout the game. Only one was used to strategically stop the clock. The rest were used due to the confusion of the unit on the field.

2. Misalignment on Washington TD run AFTER A TIMEOUT right before the half. An elephant could have gone untouched through that hole.

3. Final drive - Washington calls a timeout on third and five. Incredibly, coming out of the timeout, giants have too many men on the field and TWO PLAYERS are running off when Wash is ready to snap. Giants need to use their own timeout right after Washington’s. WTF??

4. Lack of discipline - false start/delay of game after timeout on 3rd and 2 in the first half after Barkley run. Two false starts in a row after Slayton drop. Carter offsides on the final drive. And of course, Lawrence offsides on the game winning FG.

5. The one time they actually needed a timeout, it was not called. On 4TH AND ONE ON THE FINAL DRIVE, the giants were totally confused. Some players’ backs were to the ball when it was snapped. Instead of contesting what could have been the final play of the game by stopping the run or forcing an incomplete pass, giants gave up an easy rushing first down. Not enough was made of this play. IMO, it’s one of the ugliest of the game.


Those were the worst. The following is a list of strategic mistakes that could be counted as blunders as well (depending on who you ask).

6. Soft zone throughout the game against a young backup QB who did not have great accuracy. Bridgewater was lethal last week. Heineke was so so. It’s just that he had so much time to throw (absolutely no pass rush) and the receivers were so open that a throw in the vicinity of the WR/TE/RB was good enough. Add to this the fact that the Washington receivers were absolutely OUTSTANDING this game (they caught EVERYTHING), and you have a recipe for disaster. Giants should have been blitzing all game with tight man coverage. It might have allowed a couple big plays, but Heineke was not accurate enough to seriously hurt them.

7. Two SB runs after the interception. In today’s NFL, it’s too easy for teams to March down for a FG when given four downs and two minutes. Because of the significant amount of time left on the clock (2+ mins), it’s irrelevant whether Washington has its timeouts or not. The game would be won for the giants only if they could make a fourth down stop or turnover. Since Washington’s TOs didn’t matter, giants should have passed on first down because the defense was expecting a run. A first down would have sealed the game.

8. Not going for 2 points after the Slayton TD with only a few minutes left in the third quarter in order to go up by 7 instead of 6.

9. Settling for too many FGs on 4th and short.

10. Punting on 4th down and long from Washington 38 yard line. A 55 yard FG was within Gano’s range (as proven throughout the game).


There are probably more. Bottom line: the coaching lost this game for the giants. Not all the players played great. But they did enough to win. Washington’s coaching was far superior, and that made all the difference.
Good post  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/18/2021 12:56 am : link
The confusion coming out of timeouts was infuriating. That is on the coaches. You shouldn't be confusing your team more than the other
The worst thing i could say about Joe Judge  
Red Right Hand : 9/18/2021 1:07 am : link
is he doesn't know how to make war, doesn't know how to break the other teams back, or their will to fight. Soft.
He's not a killer.
Agree with most....  
GMen72 : 9/18/2021 1:15 am : link
but this idea that we should've been a lot more aggressive on offense in FG range is stupid. We have one of the most turnover prone QBs in the NFL, who played well last night, but it's still Judge's job to coach with what he knows (DJ is a turnover machine). After the INT, you call it conservatively, don't let DJ give the game away (like he has multiple times in the past), take the FG, and let the best part of your team (defense) try to win the game. This idea that just because DJ is finally playing well...so you turn him lose, is F'ing ridiculous.

DJ played well for the first time in 2 years...but he's a long way from someone Judge should trust to carry this team to wins. FGs are better than giving games away and DJ has to prove he deserves the benefit of the doubt.
RE: Agree with most....  
Dukie Dimes : 9/18/2021 1:22 am : link
In comment 15375101 GMen72 said:
Quote:
but this idea that we should've been a lot more aggressive on offense in FG range is stupid. We have one of the most turnover prone QBs in the NFL, who played well last night, but it's still Judge's job to coach with what he knows (DJ is a turnover machine). After the INT, you call it conservatively, don't let DJ give the game away (like he has multiple times in the past), take the FG, and let the best part of your team (defense) try to win the game. This idea that just because DJ is finally playing well...so you turn him lose, is F'ing ridiculous.

DJ played well for the first time in 2 years...but he's a long way from someone Judge should trust to carry this team to wins. FGs are better than giving games away and DJ has to prove he deserves the benefit of the doubt.


I would agree with this but for the fact that the exact opposite was happening in this game. If the defense was having a great game and Jones wasn’t moving the ball, then you would have a point. But not in this game you don’t. Besides, when I said pass after the INT, I didn’t mean into triple coverage in the end zone. I meant a simple play action pass to Shepherd in the flat for 7-8 yards. Washington was selling out so hard on the run that it would almost surely have worked.
Great thread  
dslayton86 : 9/18/2021 1:28 am : link
Pretty much agree with everything you said. It was undoubtable Judge's worst game in terms of game management. I am willing to give Judge a bit of a pass because last year I think he did a solid job in terms of time out and game management especially as a rookie coach. Where he doesn't get a pass... is the general conservativeness that we have had offensively, running too much on early downs, not going for it on 4th downs. That to me is the bigger worry that's been constant since Judge took over, and it was a limp **** mistake to settle for the field goal with no fight for at least a first down.
Great Post  
Grizz99 : 9/18/2021 1:29 am : link
Factual, reasoned and unlike the agenda driven diatribe we are forced to endure.
Disagree on some points though... I thought The WAsh QB was accurate. I remember Foles in the superbowl, he played lights out and was never able to duplicate the effort. Not sure that's not what we saw the other night.
Re: The TD in the endzone, he threw that ball (in a pressure spot) as perfectly as it could be thrown. And the receiver went up and made an incredible catch. With all the emotions flowing there still should be time to appreciate football at it's finest.
I don't know if there's any coming back from this. Judge looks like an inexperienced high school coach. With all the bad coaches we've had, I don't recall anything like the debacle from the other night.
And why the reliance on a zone? The personnel seems equipped to handle a man to man pressing type of pass defense. And, against a non running QB, isn't one of the advantages of a zone nullified? Bradberry seemed man up on a receiver that was beating him and they didn't switch up and offer help at any point.
I've been wrong. I Believed that something very special was happening, I suppose, in one sense at least, that I'm right, something was happening, only it's not positive, it's comically nightmarish.
A final note (and maybe an attempt to find a positive),
Solder and Andrew were very good when matched up against the best in the game. The interior lost it's best player (by far) and stepped up and offered just enough room for Jones to step up into the pocket. All the yearlong dirge of the destructionists notwithstanding, this loss was not on the offensive line.
I am starting to think that Barklay has lost it and its time to sit him. Gallup made yardage and had 100 yard games with this line.
Never thought I'd be writing the words that has so easily flowed this night. Just hoping i'm as wrong tonight as I seem to have been all along.
It's a helluva a thing when that's my most comforting thought LOL.
RE: Great Post  
Dukie Dimes : 9/18/2021 1:48 am : link
In comment 15375104 Grizz99 said:
Quote:
Factual, reasoned and unlike the agenda driven diatribe we are forced to endure.
Disagree on some points though... I thought The WAsh QB was accurate. I remember Foles in the superbowl, he played lights out and was never able to duplicate the effort. Not sure that's not what we saw the other night.
Re: The TD in the endzone, he threw that ball (in a pressure spot) as perfectly as it could be thrown. And the receiver went up and made an incredible catch. With all the emotions flowing there still should be time to appreciate football at it's finest.
I don't know if there's any coming back from this. Judge looks like an inexperienced high school coach. With all the bad coaches we've had, I don't recall anything like the debacle from the other night.
And why the reliance on a zone? The personnel seems equipped to handle a man to man pressing type of pass defense. And, against a non running QB, isn't one of the advantages of a zone nullified? Bradberry seemed man up on a receiver that was beating him and they didn't switch up and offer help at any point.
I've been wrong. I Believed that something very special was happening, I suppose, in one sense at least, that I'm right, something was happening, only it's not positive, it's comically nightmarish.
A final note (and maybe an attempt to find a positive),
Solder and Andrew were very good when matched up against the best in the game. The interior lost it's best player (by far) and stepped up and offered just enough room for Jones to step up into the pocket. All the yearlong dirge of the destructionists notwithstanding, this loss was not on the offensive line.
I am starting to think that Barklay has lost it and its time to sit him. Gallup made yardage and had 100 yard games with this line.
Never thought I'd be writing the words that has so easily flowed this night. Just hoping i'm as wrong tonight as I seem to have been all along.
It's a helluva a thing when that's my most comforting thought LOL.


I’m not going to argue that the TD pass in the 4th quarter wasn’t great. It absolutely was. He put that in aspot where only the WR could get it, and the WR made a fabulous catch. But I did think that Heineke was pretty inconsistent with his throws for much of the game. Passes were behind his targets and very few were 15+ yards. This offensive approach demanded that the giants respond with a tight man-to-man with frequent blitz packages coming from different spots. You try to confuse a young QB, not give him confidence by allowing him to make easy throws throughout the game.
First of all  
allstarjim : 9/18/2021 2:14 am : link
with the exception of the throw that Bradberry intercepted, Heinicke was brilliant. He completed 74% of his throws, and most importantly, he consistently made good choices with the football and delivered accurate passes. I've seen him play twice, and I've been impressed by him both times. I think he has a future in the league. I'm not going to say he's the next Russell Wilson...but he kind of reminded me of Doug Flutie. I think Heinicke had 7 pass completions over 15 yards or something. Either way, it doesn't matter. Graham's defense was in soft zone coverage so often, he was just taking what the Giants were giving. That's what you are supposed to do.

I wonder if Graham thought Heinicke was incapable of beating the Giants if he had to do it via "death by a thousand cuts."

But he was up to the task.

Moving past that, I draw zero conclusions about the first two weeks of football. All it is, it's just two games. All the games count, but in terms of a season narrative, that's yet to be written. I'm not changing my opinion on any players or coaches based on what I saw in the first two games, and especially Thursday night. And I don't think anyone should. A lot of things happened and a lot of players haven't had many reps or the chemistry yet that will develop.

And Price and Bredeson have barely been with the team.

Things are going to get better. Will it translate into wins? I don't know, but I think they will play better.
Here's a point that is going to come back to me again and again  
D HOS : 9/18/2021 2:16 am : link
Judge hired extra coaches for quality control, assistants and consultants. Well regarded bright football people.

If you can see those things, and I can see those things, the fans can see them... are those 6 extra expert coaches going to see those too and make sure that Judge and the whole staff is aware?

Feed that to the Judge who says "we are going to look at the tape, see what has to be fixed and we are going to fix it". Will he see those things and fix them?

If we don't see clear and obvious fixing going on and improvement going on, then it's all talk and they've all got to go.

The next time we play a young inexperienced QB, we're going to man up on his WR and play very aggressive, right? We're going to spread out the defense if we want 26 to run up the middle, not stack the box, right? KT is going to see the ball more than twice a game! And please lord no more jet sweeps. I don't care if it works once in a while. We just can't pull that off, often enough to make the 4 yard losses worth it.
...  
broadbandz : 9/18/2021 2:33 am : link
not going for 2 is something that cant be over stated enough. Being up 5 or 6 is meaningless. Every madden player knows this but somehow the coaches and the entire org cant figure this out over YEARS!
Dukie Dimes  
M.S. : 9/18/2021 4:45 am : link

Excellent, well thought out post!
Grizz and Jim  
Fred-in-Florida : 9/18/2021 5:03 am : link
I thought Heinicke was inaccurate in the beginning. But by playing soft it gave him time to get confident and he became more accurate as the game went on.

I think the defense game plan (Graham) was terrible. Should have blitzed and press covered to make him beat us.
I saw the Bobby Skinner game recap....  
No Where Man : 9/18/2021 5:43 am : link
During the game there were 8 instances that the NYG ran the ball on 1st and 10. Those 8 runs in total netted 1 yard !!! At the same time our best playmaker that night was DJ. So in the last 2 minutes of the game, they put their fate in the running game and not their best playmaker. Conservatively pathetic.
Going for two in the 3rd quarter or early 4th is dumb  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/18/2021 5:43 am : link
and will lose you games. Unless your team is down a massive amount of points, you should never go for two at that time. If you don’t get it, you end up having to chase those points the rest of the game.

As for the 2 Barkley runs, people apparently wanted the Giants to do what Washington did on their second to last drive. WFT aggressively tried to end the game by getting first downs as opposed to making the Giants call timeouts. Guess what happened?? They turned the ball over. I too wish the Giants had highly efficient plays they could call to gain at least 4 or 5 yards, but imaginative play-calling and efficiency aren’t hallmarks of the Jason Garrett NY offense. Avoiding a turnover is just as important as anything else in that situation.

The biggest mistake is one the OP vaguely mentions which is kicking a 55 yard FG to go up six with 5+ minutes left. THAT was the spot they needed to be aggressive because the goal should’ve been seven points. Being up six was worthless.
Overall there was a rush to judgement  
PhilSimms15 : 9/18/2021 6:02 am : link
Deciding that Judge was a great coach due to great press conferences. Definitely, the guy is smart and articulate. However, it is becoming more clear that he is a so-so coach.

Good post  
Les in TO : 9/18/2021 6:20 am : link
The shine is starting to come off Judge.
Awful game for Judge  
mattnyg05 : 9/18/2021 6:22 am : link
And I’m a big fan of his, but this is what it is. We didn’t take this win, we allowed ourselves to lose. So many chances beyond the drop and the offside penalty. Agree with the entire list in the OP.

And re: running the ball before our last fg… you can run it but why not line up like you were the entire game, in shotgun faking a handoff/running a bootleg, or pulling back and hitting an easy completion against a team thinking you are running? It was so silly. As soon as they lined up.
And also  
mattnyg05 : 9/18/2021 6:37 am : link
which has been said, Graham has had a horrendous first two games. This team on defense looks like it is just sitting back saying “we’re so good you’re not going to beat us” instead of actually playing defense. They need a wake up call desperately-hopefully the pathetic TD drive and the last two minute tissue paper style were enough to change things.
Great post  
greek13 : 9/18/2021 7:25 am : link
Unacceptable coaching performance

Don’t trust your defense for an early long fg attempt
Then trust them after they’ve played horribly with game on the line
Judge patronized the fans with his response to last drive yesterday
Then tries to call pass to shep going vertical

No timeout on 4th and one should be called out and I m not sure I’ve seen
It asked of him
Pathetic performance by the coach
RE: Grizz and Jim  
Dukie Dimes : 9/18/2021 7:36 am : link
In comment 15375117 Fred-in-Florida said:
Quote:
I thought Heinicke was inaccurate in the beginning. But by playing soft it gave him time to get confident and he became more accurate as the game went on.

I think the defense game plan (Graham) was terrible. Should have blitzed and press covered to make him beat us.


I agree with this.

Also, I agree with all star Jim’s take that we don’t know what we have, and that things should get better. They did last year. Let’s see if that translates to wins.
On the misaligned  
Simms11 : 9/18/2021 7:38 am : link
Defense, why didn't Martinez see that and shift the D? Doesn't he have the ability to do that as the Captain on the field? Or is that on the coaches? I would think the leader on D should have been able to make the proper adjustment?! That's something that A. Pierce used to be able to do and play chess with the QB. Maybe Martinez's hands are tied?!
item 6 is a Giants tradition. After they broke Theismann in 2,they sat  
Victor in CT : 9/18/2021 8:08 am : link
back and made Jay Schroeder into an overnight star. In SB 35 they sat back and let Trent Dilfer beat them. That's just 2 examples. They have done this in different decades, with great teams, bad teams, HOF coaches and middling coaches.
And the challenge flag  
jeff57 : 9/18/2021 8:18 am : link
.
Good post OP  
Metnut : 9/18/2021 8:19 am : link
The coaching staff has been the biggest disappointment so far for me this season.
The Giants gad an opportunity  
johnnyb : 9/18/2021 8:22 am : link
to win the game after the Bradbury interception. Not saying they score a TD but I would rather be aggressive in that spot. You paid Golladay a ton to win 50- 50 balls, you paid Rudolph a lot to be a redzone threat and Shepherd was having a great game. Take a shot at this point. I would rather lose being aggressive than lose being conservative. I guess Joe Judge disagrees.

With all the points the original poster made, all valid, we were still in position to win. And we should have at least tried.
Really good post putting this together  
cosmicj : 9/18/2021 8:30 am : link
Judge is having a bad couple of months. He needs to step it up.
Agree With This Take  
Jeffrey : 9/18/2021 8:43 am : link
Judge came in as the anti-Shurmur and McAdoo. He was apparently structured with a plan and discipline. It was welcomed by many of us. Only one thing was missing--even with all discipline and plans he still had zero head coaching experience. Not ready to throw him aside yet but it should be fair game to question him, his game strategy, personnel choices, his staff, particularly the OC and the DC. If this year goes south the ownership should not waste any more time changing directions starting with GM and the coaching staff.
RE: First of all  
gary_from_chester : 9/18/2021 8:43 am : link
In comment 15375109 allstarjim said:
Quote:


Moving past that, I draw zero conclusions about the first two weeks of football. All it is, it's just two games. All the games count, but in terms of a season narrative, that's yet to be written. I'm not changing my opinion on any players or coaches based on what I saw in the first two games, and especially Thursday night. And I don't think anyone should. A lot of things happened and a lot of players haven't had many reps or the chemistry yet that will develop.

And Price and Bredeson have barely been with the team.

Things are going to get better. Will it translate into wins? I don't know, but I think they will play better.


Best thoughts I’ve read on here in a long time. We’re only two games in. I believe adjustments will be made and play will improve. This is a decent roster and recent blunders notwithstanding, I have confidence in the coaches. Think we’re still looking at an 8-9 win season.

The most important thing to ‘root’ for and watch as a Giants fan is DJ. We’ll know after this year if he’s the guy or not. This last game was at least encouraging on that front.
Good OP Dukie Dimes  
NYGgolfer : 9/18/2021 8:47 am : link
New there were some coaching moments watching the game live, but didn’t realize how many there really were until reminded with your post. Judge learning how to become a head coach on game day in the NFL.

The soft play from the Secondary for now two weeks in a row is killing this team. And it’s not like they faced the more accomplished passers or even scrambling QBs so not sure why they aren’t manning-up far more.

Unprepared team in week one. Mistakes from sideline in game two. Players yelling at teammates on sideline. Rookies displaying their attitudes on public forums. Weakest unit on the team gets even thinner. 0-2 start yet again for a team that took some leeways this preaseason in playing starters.

Quite a start to new season.
RE: I saw the Bobby Skinner game recap....  
trueblueinpw : 9/18/2021 8:49 am : link
In comment 15375119 No Where Man said:
Quote:
During the game there were 8 instances that the NYG ran the ball on 1st and 10. Those 8 runs in total netted 1 yard !!! At the same time our best playmaker that night was DJ. So in the last 2 minutes of the game, they put their fate in the running game and not their best playmaker. Conservatively pathetic.


In the post game pressers Judge had some coach pablum about trusting the running game after the JBIV int with 2 minutes left in the game. But the running game was horrible all night. Everyone knew the Giants running game wasn’t working. Yet, two dives into the dirt by Barkley. A naked bootleg by Jones would have at least taken more time than Mr Future Gold Jacket jumping into the dirt. Pathetic coaching.
Good post thanks Dukie Dimes  
mittenedman : 9/18/2021 9:06 am : link
The overall disorganization of the team is what stands out in contrast to last year, when I thought they were surprisingly disciplined for a "new" team. Last year, the Giants tackled extremely well and seemed to know what they were doing.

This year, on both sides of the ball, it looks like a Chinese fire drill pre-snap. The D in particular is having a difficult time getting lined up. It's a veteran D who was beating its chest all summer how good it was, and they can't even line up correctly and be ready for the snap.

And you're right - that 4th and 1 where everybody's just standing around was killer.
Hard to argue  
joeinpa : 9/18/2021 9:41 am : link
With your points, I only disagree with the idea of going for 2 in the 3 rd quarter.
Agreed  
Svengali : 9/18/2021 1:25 pm : link
I said to my depressed friends after the game that coaching lost that game for them. I was encouraged by our QB play.
Excellent Post!  
Rico : 9/19/2021 2:01 pm : link
I had the same thoughts, but you organized them better!
I’m seriously considering not watching this team anymore  
djm : 9/19/2021 2:23 pm : link
And it’s pretty much because of judge. No one liked this guy more than I did after his first year. I pray I’m wrong, I’ll be embarrassed to admit I wrote this guy off if he ever rights this ship, but this team looks so lost and flat out weird i just can’t see Judge fixing this mess. It’s one thing to be tough, it’s quite another to be a good NFL head coach. It takes a lot more than tough. This team is lost.

2017 didn’t shock me like this year has so far.
And good post  
djm : 9/19/2021 2:30 pm : link
I don’t necessarily agree with all of the bullet points, like kicking the FGs and eschewing the 2 pter was fine with me, but the rest are spot on.

I’d probably fire Garrett for not running the Jones keeper more often than they did in these last two games, but I’d bet Judge has more input on the playcalling anyway. And if he doesn’t that’s on him too.

The giants are afraid to win. It’s clear as day. And they have been since December of 2012. They makes moves they are obligated to make. They coach scared and play scared. Finally Jones looks like he’s ready to put on some big boy pants, carrying this offense most of Thursday night, and the giants neuter him in the 4th quarter.
RE: Agree with most....  
PatersonPlank : 9/19/2021 2:36 pm : link
In comment 15375101 GMen72 said:
Quote:
but this idea that we should've been a lot more aggressive on offense in FG range is stupid. We have one of the most turnover prone QBs in the NFL, who played well last night, but it's still Judge's job to coach with what he knows (DJ is a turnover machine). After the INT, you call it conservatively, don't let DJ give the game away (like he has multiple times in the past), take the FG, and let the best part of your team (defense) try to win the game. This idea that just because DJ is finally playing well...so you turn him lose, is F'ing ridiculous.

DJ played well for the first time in 2 years...but he's a long way from someone Judge should trust to carry this team to wins. FGs are better than giving games away and DJ has to prove he deserves the benefit of the doubt.


I believe Jones only has 1 int and 1 fumble in his last 8 games (I may have missed a fumble). That is really good. Hopefully he has learned
RE: Agree with most....  
Matt M. : 9/19/2021 5:33 pm : link
In comment 15375101 GMen72 said:
Quote:
but this idea that we should've been a lot more aggressive on offense in FG range is stupid. We have one of the most turnover prone QBs in the NFL, who played well last night, but it's still Judge's job to coach with what he knows (DJ is a turnover machine). After the INT, you call it conservatively, don't let DJ give the game away (like he has multiple times in the past), take the FG, and let the best part of your team (defense) try to win the game. This idea that just because DJ is finally playing well...so you turn him lose, is F'ing ridiculous.

DJ played well for the first time in 2 years...but he's a long way from someone Judge should trust to carry this team to wins. FGs are better than giving games away and DJ has to prove he deserves the benefit of the doubt.
The problem is they came out after the INT with the mindset of kicking the FG. The mi dste should be SCORE, not limited to. FG or settling for it before you even line up for a down.

You are worried about turnovers? How about a simple play action to o e side, with Ho es keeping it on a boot to the other? Not even a lass is required. But, the fake is almost certain to work. And, maybe once we can throw a pass past the sticks on 3rd down.
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