Banks take on Giants final possession, (most won t agree)

But why would anyone have thought he would get them? I think it was mentioned, if you take away his one big run, he averaged under 2 yards per carry. No bueno.

In comment 15375240 Thunderstruck27 said:

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But why would anyone have thought he would get them? I think it was mentioned, if you take away his one big run, he averaged under 2 yards per carry. No bueno.

That s a very valid pt.

My suggestion would be getting Shepard or Golladay on a stick route near the first down and let Penny do the rest; he converted a third-and-short or two during the game.

Unless of course Penny's dealing with a knee injury; he looked a bit gimpy after one of his runs.

I DO think that he's a RB who will get those big runs sometimes but also get stuffed a lot. This is who he was at PSU. There were concerns about it then, and there was a recent article that talked about him continuing the trend in the NFL.

This is not to say that the pick was a waste or that he won't be a great RB for us, but that I don't think you can expect him to get 6-7 yards every carry AND also run 70 yards for a TD in every game... although that would be nice. : )

did he watch the rest of the game? Barkley up the middle didn’t work all game, why would it work then?

Plenty of other options. High percentage, low-risk passes in the flat, bootlegs with Jones, heck get Barkley outside.

In comment 15375248 Marianne at PSU said:

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I DO think that he's a RB who will get those big runs sometimes but also get stuffed a lot. This is who he was at PSU. There were concerns about it then, and there was a recent article that talked about him continuing the trend in the NFL. This is not to say that the pick was a waste or that he won't be a great RB for us, but that I don't think you can expect him to get 6-7 yards every carry AND also run 70 yards for a TD in every game... although that would be nice. : )

That's the point. He's not a RB that you use when you want to put the game away, which means he's not a franchise RB. He's a gadget player that you scheme to get out into space.The times where we had Barkley split wide, that's more correct usage of him. Booker should be the primary grind it out back, and Barkley should be moved around the offense.

Not that Shurmur was a good head coach, but he is a good OC, and you'll note he often went away from Barkley in the 2nd half of games.

that's the issue, it's the bunched formation they used. They made WFT's job easy. Twice

Couldn’t help but think Wayne Gallman would have plowed his way into a first down or 3rd and short.

Banks must be saying that the blocking was adequate to get more yards. The Giants ended up with a third down and 7, how many more yards does Barkley get? This criticism of Barkley that he leaves a lot of yards on the field; I do not buy. I think we all know the Giants have not been acceptable at run blocking with Barkley in the backfield for most of his time here, interesting enough when he was injured and it was later in the year last season the OL was getting good movement, blocking we had not seen in a while, we all saw it. My POV will remain this until I see a good reason to change it: Barkley does dance, Barkley does leave some yards on the field, but it is mostly a result of poor run blocking. When or if the Giants actually get adequate movement in the run game that shows Barkley is hurting the team by not being an effective runner I will certainly change my mind.

I have said before that Barkley has more learning to do at the NFL level (ala Tiki), so he has some fault. I'm not absolving him. I am off my "fence sitter position".

In comment 15375251 KDavies said:

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did he watch the rest of the game? Barkley up the middle didn’t work all game, why would it work then? Plenty of other options. High percentage, low-risk passes in the flat, bootlegs with Jones, heck get Barkley outside.

Barkley up the middle wasn't working in early '20 before he got hurt.

In comment 15375255 FStubbs said:

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In comment 15375248 Marianne at PSU said: Quote: I DO think that he's a RB who will get those big runs sometimes but also get stuffed a lot. This is who he was at PSU. There were concerns about it then, and there was a recent article that talked about him continuing the trend in the NFL. This is not to say that the pick was a waste or that he won't be a great RB for us, but that I don't think you can expect him to get 6-7 yards every carry AND also run 70 yards for a TD in every game... although that would be nice. : ) That's the point. He's not a RB that you use when you want to put the game away, which means he's not a franchise RB. He's a gadget player that you scheme to get out into space.The times where we had Barkley split wide, that's more correct usage of him. Booker should be the primary grind it out back, and Barkley should be moved around the offense. Not that Shurmur was a good head coach, but he is a good OC, and you'll note he often went away from Barkley in the 2nd half of games.

Just because a team is ahead and wants to I guess use clock does not mean you have to run your running back into 9 man fronts, that seems like primative football. Barkley does not have a problem getting yards, if his weakness is running into stacked fronts, then wouldn't it be wise to use him differently?

In comment 15375258 Micko said:

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Couldn’t help but think Wayne Gallman would have plowed his way into a first down or 3rd and short.

He probably would have fumbled.

the read option on 2nd down. I wonder if they were concerned Jones would cough it up but it to me it no more risky then passing.

Eitherway we needed to attempt to score 6 instead of planning on the kick.

In comment 15375272 Dankbeerman said:

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the read option on 2nd down. I wonder if they were concerned Jones would cough it up but it to me it no more risky then passing. Eitherway we needed to attempt to score 6 instead of planning on the kick.

They got chunk yards with such ease running the read option, it mystifies why they wouldn't run it even once on such a consequential drive.

In comment 15375272 Dankbeerman said:

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the read option on 2nd down. I wonder if they were concerned Jones would cough it up but it to me it no more risky then passing. Eitherway we needed to attempt to score 6 instead of planning on the kick.

It certainly was working. If the coaches did not run something because they were afraid a player would fumble then that is on the coaches in my view. Jones did a good job of keeping a hold of the ball, show him you believe that he can do it at critical times.

Yeah - I’m tired of Banks at this point. All the guy does is talk about “executing the plays.” Hey - it’s time to call it like it is: there are certain plays and situational game management that just doesn’t fucking work.

In a situation it's designed to work because of player execution, it's 100% on the coaches for not making sure that play is perfected in practice.

In comment 15375240 Thunderstruck27 said:

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But why would anyone have thought he would get them? I think it was mentioned, if you take away his one big run, he averaged under 2 yards per carry. No bueno.

This is the point that I was also going to make after reading the OP. Yeah... if the team would execute the plays then each one would be a touchdown. There was no evidence over the past two weeks to suggest that handing the ball to Barkley in that scenario would be successful. Especially when Washington knows we want to run out the clock so they are also expecting a run call.

In comment 15375256 family progtitioner said:

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that's the issue, it's the bunched formation they used. They made WFT's job easy. Twice

This!!! And what was Banks smoking to think that a patchwork Offensive Line was all of a sudden going to power open holes at the end of the game in tight as they were? Again, you have to put Barkley in space for him to be effective right now, until we get some stability in the line.

would have, in my view, been a touchdown.

In comment 15375240 Thunderstruck27 said:

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But why would anyone have thought he would get them? I think it was mentioned, if you take away his one big run, he averaged under 2 yards per carry. No bueno.

Barkley should have more yards on practically every carry, but he refuses to turn a 2 yard run into a 4 yard run.

You can always bitch about execution, it’s up to the coaches to make it easier to execute for players and play to their strengths.

In comment 15375251 KDavies said:

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did he watch the rest of the game? Barkley up the middle didn’t work all game, why would it work then? Plenty of other options. High percentage, low-risk passes in the flat, bootlegs with Jones, heck get Barkley outside.

I completely agree with this. Heck, I would have rather they used Penny, it might have fooled WFT.

I think Barkley goes to the ground too easily rather than staying upright and driving forward. But, need to see the video.

Anyway, Barkley isn’t a back who gets the hard yards. Kind of odd for a guy touched by the hand of God. He doesn’t pass pro either which NFL backs always say is about attitude and willingness. Barkley plays like a fancy pants who doesn’t like to take contact. I’m sure Getty is busy trying to figure out some way to sign Barkley to a long term second contract.

but a 1st down would have iced the game. Without the benefit of rewatching that final possession, I will add that the turf was giving players problems all night, so it’s possible that Saquon had trouble with his footing on that initial carry.

That said, not getting the tough yards is one of the defining characteristics of Saquon’s game. He is always looking to break one off, sometimes you need to lower your head and get what you can, ESPECIALLY given those circumstances.

In comment 15375296 EricJ said:

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In comment 15375240 Thunderstruck27 said: Quote: But why would anyone have thought he would get them? I think it was mentioned, if you take away his one big run, he averaged under 2 yards per carry. No bueno. This is the point that I was also going to make after reading the OP. Yeah... if the team would execute the plays then each one would be a touchdown. There was no evidence over the past two weeks to suggest that handing the ball to Barkley in that scenario would be successful. Especially when Washington knows we want to run out the clock so they are also expecting a run call.

This is correct. They made it easy for WFT with options regarding passing or DJ running it himself that were both working better. Play to win and control the final outcome.

In comment 15375284 ryanmkeane said:

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Yeah - I’m tired of Banks at this point. All the guy does is talk about “executing the plays.” Hey - it’s time to call it like it is: there are certain plays and situational game management that just doesn’t fucking work.

of all the ex-players in local media, Banks might be the worst at his current job.

.

I think it's more indicative of the coaches and their belief in Jones.

Collectively all giants fans thought dont F this up right after the interception, and this is not a bash thread on Daniel Jones--he had a great game.

Unfortunately, until the player has some consistency and shows better decision-making, the offense will likely be more cautious and take the points.

We had trouble running all game, aftertge INT everyone knew we were going to run.

Should have trusted Jones to throw on first down.

Last in yards expected according to talkin giants podcast which cited next gen stats. He doesn’t and never gets the tough yardage. He looks to hit a homerun on every play. He’s needs to do less dancing and needs to hit the hole when it’s there. It isn’t his style end it’s something that likely won’t change. He isn’t an aggressive runner. He’s a 225lbs finesse runner

You have to consider the situation of the game and how poor the defense had been playing. Then a TNG which that late gives the advantage to the offense. So it seems if you don't get the TD you are really in a poor spot especially considering WFT would only need a FG.

Based on above whether SB could have gotten a few more yards I still take issue with the actual call. To me you are saying you do not trust your offense and especially DJ.

if you are a head coach in the NFL, that type of situation cannot be screwed up. It just can't be.

Pat Shurmur, as downright bad as he was, would have gone for the score there.

but after the INT, perhaps the better choice to get those tough yards between the tackles for a first down was Booker. He's got better body lean and knows how to finish a run.

Kind of disappointing, too, that he only got two carries in the game.

for Jones running the read-option at the end. It was clearly the most successful play call of the night so why not use it when you absolutely needed a first down.

Jints really need to develop a short pass off of the read-option to give defenses more to think about.

In comment 15375425 bw in dc said:

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but after the INT, perhaps the better choice to get those tough yards between the tackles for a first down was Booker. He's got better body lean and knows how to finish a run. Kind of disappointing, too, that he only got two carries in the game.

I would say the best choice was Jones threatening the edge, while Barkley threatened the inside. For Barkley being such an ineffective inside runner, he certainly garners much attention from the defense when he looks to run inside.

In comment 15375438 ChicagoMarty said:

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for Jones running the read-option at the end. It was clearly the most successful play call of the night so why not use it when you absolutely needed a first down. Jints really need to develop a short pass off of the read-option to give defenses more to think about.

✅

In comment 15375258 Micko said:

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Couldn’t help but think Wayne Gallman would have plowed his way into a first down or 3rd and short.

Ya. He's the kind of running back they need at times. They dumped him because he can't catch and blocks poorly. Menawhile he's the best runner of the football between the tackles we've had in the last few years, and better than anyone we have now.

I feel like if the strategy was to run out the clock then they shouldn't have thrown on third down. It the strategy was to get a first down then they should not have given the ball to Barkley to run inside twice. It may be a little bit of an over-simplification but I think they tried to accomplish both and ended up with the worst of both worlds.

In comment 15375456 Red Right Hand said:

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In comment 15375258 Micko said: Quote: Couldn’t help but think Wayne Gallman would have plowed his way into a first down or 3rd and short. Ya. He's the kind of running back they need at times. They dumped him because he can't catch and blocks poorly. Menawhile he's the best runner of the football between the tackles we've had in the last few years, and better than anyone we have now.

Gallman never sees boxes or defenses like Barkley does, and I that’s because he’s not good. I’m tact teams were pretty comfortable just sitting in zone waiting for pass plays because they didn’t fear him at all on second level. Safeties never crashed until visually seeing him with ball in his hands. This Gallman crap needs to stop.

Barkley hasn’t been good so far but Jesus. Running him in tight formations when teams know they are running is not his strength and it’s certainly not the OLs right. They were awful run blocking this week. Gallman was able to run between the tackles because no one respected him as a runner and our OL was able to run block. Gallman does jack shit on that last drive.

Everyone was killing Barkley for kicking runs outside instead of going for the hole. Now, he hardly ever kicks it out and everyone is still mad. I think he just is not 100% and our line is not run blocking well.

In comment 15375444 crick n NC said:

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In comment 15375425 bw in dc said: Quote: but after the INT, perhaps the better choice to get those tough yards between the tackles for a first down was Booker. He's got better body lean and knows how to finish a run. Kind of disappointing, too, that he only got two carries in the game. I would say the best choice was Jones threatening the edge, while Barkley threatened the inside. For Barkley being such an ineffective inside runner, he certainly garners much attention from the defense when he looks to run inside.

I could have lived with, too. But I'm talking about the better RB to use. And Booker is just better between the tackles - IMV.

In comment 15375586 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15375444 crick n NC said: Quote: In comment 15375425 bw in dc said: Quote: but after the INT, perhaps the better choice to get those tough yards between the tackles for a first down was Booker. He's got better body lean and knows how to finish a run. Kind of disappointing, too, that he only got two carries in the game. I would say the best choice was Jones threatening the edge, while Barkley threatened the inside. For Barkley being such an ineffective inside runner, he certainly garners much attention from the defense when he looks to run inside. I could have lived with, too. But I'm talking about the better RB to use. And Booker is just better between the tackles - IMV.

Gotcha 👍

In comment 15375539 Zeke's Alibi said:

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In comment 15375456 Red Right Hand said: Quote: In comment 15375258 Micko said: Quote: Couldn’t help but think Wayne Gallman would have plowed his way into a first down or 3rd and short. Ya. He's the kind of running back they need at times. They dumped him because he can't catch and blocks poorly. Menawhile he's the best runner of the football between the tackles we've had in the last few years, and better than anyone we have now. Gallman never sees boxes or defenses like Barkley does, and I that’s because he’s not good. I’m tact teams were pretty comfortable just sitting in zone waiting for pass plays because they didn’t fear him at all on second level. Safeties never crashed until visually seeing him with ball in his hands. This Gallman crap needs to stop. Barkley hasn’t been good so far but Jesus. Running him in tight formations when teams know they are running is not his strength and it’s certainly not the OLs right. They were awful run blocking this week. Gallman was able to run between the tackles because no one respected him as a runner and our OL was able to run block. Gallman does jack shit on that last drive.

EXACTLY!

You all are confusing exciting running for good nfl running. I’ve seen Gallman run it right up the gut on goal line plays and score TDs. I’ve seen him run 3rd and short and blast 5 yards up the middle. Something I have NEVER seen before Barkley do. He just does not want contact . Some guy at a bar was pointing it out to me his rookie year. Giants fan for decades. He cares more about how his hair looks and he’s a pussy. Bar giants fan got it right.It’s not effective in the nfl. Sure in college with slower players and bad tackling you could get away with it. Not in this league.

Every time someone points out that di and Saquon sucks someone has to blame garret; the o line; or bad receivers. How about maybe they ain’t nfl material and were over drafted ? Like oj said about di same applies to Barkley .... it quacks like a duck; if it walks like a duck ; then guess what ii is?

In comment 15375666 Debaser said:

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You all are confusing exciting running for good nfl running. I’ve seen Gallman run it right up the gut on goal line plays and score TDs. I’ve seen him run 3rd and short and blast 5 yards up the middle. Something I have NEVER seen before Barkley do. He just does not want contact . Some guy at a bar was pointing it out to me his rookie year. Giants fan for decades. He cares more about how his hair looks and he’s a pussy. Bar giants fan got it right.It’s not effective in the nfl. Sure in college with slower players and bad tackling you could get away with it. Not in this league. Every time someone points out that di and Saquon sucks someone has to blame garret; the o line; or bad receivers. How about maybe they ain’t nfl material and were over drafted ? Like oj said about di same applies to Barkley .... it quacks like a duck; if it walks like a duck ; then guess what ii is?

Never, like including earlier in the game when he picked up a short yardage conversion by moving the pile?

Is and will be. Even that long run. He just isn’t the same player. And his liabilities in running up the gut and pass blocking are now magnified.

In comment 15375666 Debaser said:

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You all are confusing exciting running for good nfl running. I’ve seen Gallman run it right up the gut on goal line plays and score TDs. I’ve seen him run 3rd and short and blast 5 yards up the middle. Something I have NEVER seen before Barkley do. He just does not want contact . Some guy at a bar was pointing it out to me his rookie year. Giants fan for decades. He cares more about how his hair looks and he’s a pussy. Bar giants fan got it right.It’s not effective in the nfl. Sure in college with slower players and bad tackling you could get away with it. Not in this league. Every time someone points out that di and Saquon sucks someone has to blame garret; the o line; or bad receivers. How about maybe they ain’t nfl material and were over drafted ? Like oj said about di same applies to Barkley .... it quacks like a duck; if it walks like a duck ; then guess what ii is?

Nice, calling Barkley a pussy. You are a quality guy.

as a runner in a better way than that. No one's gonna agree with that comment put that way.


Nobody that plays RB for a living is soft or a pussy.

isn't an NFL player...

In comment 15375680 Dave on the UWS said:

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Is and will be. Even that long run. He just isn’t the same player. And his liabilities in running up the gut and pass blocking are now magnified.

It's been two games. Pro athletes current and past often talk about how it takes time after an ACL reconstruction to really feel comfortable again doing the things they did previously. I expect the same thing here.

In comment 15375680 Dave on the UWS said:

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Is and will be. Even that long run. He just isn’t the same player. And his liabilities in running up the gut and pass blocking are now magnified.

I'm not sure about that, it takes time mentally to get over an ACL injury like that. Pretty much every athelte and Dr. says the same thing. That the recovery the year after is more mental than physical. If he looks like this at the end of the year, well that will be mighty damn concerning. But DCs clearly still respect the shit out of him if week 1 and 2 are any indication. Which opens up things for the whole offense. Gallman never did that. I don't know how the argument went from should never take a RB number 2 to Gallman is just as good if not better than Saquon. It's pretty ridiculous.

In comment 15375251 KDavies said:

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did he watch the rest of the game? Barkley up the middle didn’t work all game, why would it work then? Plenty of other options. High percentage, low-risk passes in the flat, bootlegs with Jones, heck get Barkley outside.

I agree

The running plays had more yards there. It should have been 3rd and short with the pressure on the defense.

Whether those plays were the best shot they had is another story.
But the plays called offered a chance to get in position to make a first. Barkley did the norm on tight runs

In comment 15375694 Strahan91 said:

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In comment 15375680 Dave on the UWS said: Quote: Is and will be. Even that long run. He just isn’t the same player. And his liabilities in running up the gut and pass blocking are now magnified. It's been two games. Pro athletes current and past often talk about how it takes time after an ACL reconstruction to really feel comfortable again doing the things they did previously. I expect the same thing here.

He wasn't much running inside pre-injury either. I don't think that's why he's struggling on that point. Shurmur was calling him out for it two years ago.

that John Mara has no say in whether or not Barkley gets extended

After success with it in the 1st half, why did the Giants abandon the QB option and not call any running plays for Jones in the second half?

In comment 15375842 GruningsOnTheHill said:

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After success with it in the 1st half, why did the Giants abandon the QB option and not call any running plays for Jones in the second half?

My guess, they were winning. This conservative staff is always going to lean safe.

a first down and a field goal.