Still recovering so will cut some slack. That said, even before the injury, he was never your bell cow - the back you could count on to grind out those tough yards or carry the ball 25-30 times a game or close the game out with a big first down. He’s the Adam Dunn of running backs
maybe its a mental thing and he needs a number of games, but he is clearly just sticking to the run hole and not trying to create things like he used too. I don't think its fair to make determinations about a guy who sat out last year and is still rusty.
size/speed combo. And for a big back his cutting ability is truly unique. Probably the best in the game at his peak. But he's not that far ahead of peak Elliott, Chubb, Cook, for example, in that regard, AND those three backs have the added ability to put their foot down and stick it between the tackles and tough out yards between the tackles in traffic. Barkley doesn't seem to excel at that.
Having said that, spending the #2 on Barkley wasn't bad because Barkley is bad, he's not bad, Barkley is great. It was a bad pick because NO RB is worth the #2 pick in today's NFL. Not when you can get the likes of Cook, Chubb, Hunt, etc etc in later rounds.
Talking about how Shurmur wouldn't use Barkley in the second half of games. Seems like a smart move now. But I know people were livid when he was doing it
I had this argument with my friends in one of my FF league and they said the same thing, so I signed up for Statgeek and pulled every single carry from Reggie Bush's 2011 season on the Dolphins and Barkleys rookie year, when both had 5.0 YPC.
I did not look at receiving stats, so this is only about rushing the ball, and I'm not some sort of data scientist, but here's what I found.
Saquon had 262 rushes, Bush had I believe around 210.
The median yards gained of Barkleys rushes was 2, the median yards gained of Bushes was 3. The mode of yards gained for Saquon was 1, the mode for Bush was 3.
On his top 5% of carries (e.g. 13 carries with the most yards), Saquon gained 44% of his rushing total. Bush's number was 30%.
When you make it the top 10% of carries, Saquon gained 60% of his yardage total, while Bush gained 40%.
There's obviously a lot more to this picture -- bad offensive line (though I don't really remember the 2011 Dolphins being any good either), and I didn't dive into receiving stats which are obviously huge, but in terms of running the ball, I'd *rather* have the Reggie Bush of 2011 than Saquon of 2018 based on the stats, since he more consistently would pick up yards.
The mode of Barkleys runs was 1, so that was the most likely outcome for a run with him that year.
I think it’s in the best interest of everyone involved that he be
I had this argument with my friends in one of my FF league and they said the same thing, so I signed up for Statgeek and pulled every single carry from Reggie Bush's 2011 season on the Dolphins and Barkleys rookie year, when both had 5.0 YPC.
I did not look at receiving stats, so this is only about rushing the ball, and I'm not some sort of data scientist, but here's what I found.
Saquon had 262 rushes, Bush had I believe around 210.
The median yards gained of Barkleys rushes was 2, the median yards gained of Bushes was 3. The mode of yards gained for Saquon was 1, the mode for Bush was 3.
On his top 5% of carries (e.g. 13 carries with the most yards), Saquon gained 44% of his rushing total. Bush's number was 30%.
When you make it the top 10% of carries, Saquon gained 60% of his yardage total, while Bush gained 40%.
There's obviously a lot more to this picture -- bad offensive line (though I don't really remember the 2011 Dolphins being any good either), and I didn't dive into receiving stats which are obviously huge, but in terms of running the ball, I'd *rather* have the Reggie Bush of 2011 than Saquon of 2018 based on the stats, since he more consistently would pick up yards.
The mode of Barkleys runs was 1, so that was the most likely outcome for a run with him that year.
You may not be a statistician, but that’s a hell of a job!
I had this argument with my friends in one of my FF league and they said the same thing, so I signed up for Statgeek and pulled every single carry from Reggie Bush's 2011 season on the Dolphins and Barkleys rookie year, when both had 5.0 YPC.
I did not look at receiving stats, so this is only about rushing the ball, and I'm not some sort of data scientist, but here's what I found.
Saquon had 262 rushes, Bush had I believe around 210.
The median yards gained of Barkleys rushes was 2, the median yards gained of Bushes was 3. The mode of yards gained for Saquon was 1, the mode for Bush was 3.
On his top 5% of carries (e.g. 13 carries with the most yards), Saquon gained 44% of his rushing total. Bush's number was 30%.
When you make it the top 10% of carries, Saquon gained 60% of his yardage total, while Bush gained 40%.
There's obviously a lot more to this picture -- bad offensive line (though I don't really remember the 2011 Dolphins being any good either), and I didn't dive into receiving stats which are obviously huge, but in terms of running the ball, I'd *rather* have the Reggie Bush of 2011 than Saquon of 2018 based on the stats, since he more consistently would pick up yards.
The mode of Barkleys runs was 1, so that was the most likely outcome for a run with him that year.
Well done all-around with the figures and your comments.
The question is is the team better with Barkley or without. Based on the teams performance with or without, they are the same. They pretty much suck. A great running back or a good running back can’t produce without at least a decent OL. And, if you have a decent OL or better, a good RB is all you need. And, if you don’t have a decent OL, a great RB is not enough. Gettleman totally blew it by wasting a high pick on Barkley without improving the OL much.
tons of media and fans piling on Barkley after his first 2 games removed from major surgery.
Makes zero sense. If he looks like this at end of year, sure, but this reeks of people that hated the pick using it as an opportunity. It’s just not rational or reasonable right now.
tons of media and fans piling on Barkley after his first 2 games removed from major surgery.
Makes zero sense. If he looks like this at end of year, sure, but this reeks of people that hated the pick using it as an opportunity. It’s just not rational or reasonable right now.
It really does make sense though, when you take off the Giants colored glasses. Even when healthy he wasn’t an effective runner in between the tackles. That’s fine, definitely not number 2 pick worthy, but you can still win games with the type of player if we start being honest with ourselves.
tons of media and fans piling on Barkley after his first 2 games removed from major surgery.
Makes zero sense. If he looks like this at end of year, sure, but this reeks of people that hated the pick using it as an opportunity. It’s just not rational or reasonable right now.
What is irrational about it? This is the type of player he's always been. You're surprised that people who thought he was this player on draft night still feel the same way? Wtf does an "opportunity" even mean in this situation?
Plenty of folks forgetting 2018 and majority of 2019. Go back and watch the games.
Yeah - is he the best runner in the league in between the tackles? No. Was he fine in that department before his knee injury? Yes, he was.
Being “fine” at running between the tackles isn’t a generational running back or one you take 2nd. That’s the point. Most of your runs will be between the tackles.
He doesn't look quite as big as he used to.You see defensive lineman get their hands on him,he just drops to the turf,no resistance.He's not running anyone over like he did his rookie year.
Right now I'd just let him walk,or try and get something for him.I'm ready to take the loss
Real Yards Per carry tells the story. Remove the very few big runs he has and he is below average. Redskin game no different. One carry 41 yards. The rest 12 carries 16 yards. Can’t consistently maintain drives with this. Also, don’t talk about the injury. This was the problem before the injury and it will always be the problem with this guy. His hero Barry Sanders suffered from the same thing. His teams never won anything and his running style was part of the problem. All or nothing backs. Nothing most of the time. Not conducive to winning games. Should try to trade him to get some return on value.
Real Yards Per carry tells the story. Remove the very few big runs he has and he is below average. Redskin game no different. One carry 41 yards. The rest 12 carries 16 yards. Can’t consistently maintain drives with this. Also, don’t talk about the injury. This was the problem before the injury and it will always be the problem with this guy. His hero Barry Sanders suffered from the same thing. His teams never won anything and his running style was part of the problem. All or nothing backs. Nothing most of the time. Not conducive to winning games. Should try to trade him to get some return on value.
Barry Sanders running style was not why his teams didn’t win lol
size/speed combo. And for a big back his cutting ability is truly unique. Probably the best in the game at his peak. But he's not that far ahead of peak Elliott, Chubb, Cook, for example, in that regard, AND those three backs have the added ability to put their foot down and stick it between the tackles and tough out yards between the tackles in traffic. Barkley doesn't seem to excel at that.
Having said that, spending the #2 on Barkley wasn't bad because Barkley is bad, he's not bad, Barkley is great. It was a bad pick because NO RB is worth the #2 pick in today's NFL. Not when you can get the likes of Cook, Chubb, Hunt, etc etc in later rounds.
if he never/rarely uses his size, what difference does it make?
For the record, I’m a Barkley fan and am happy he is on the team. Should he have been the pick at #2, no. But I think the question of generational talent (words Gettleman should never have uttered) is dependent on how the player is used. Not just what the player is good at. Anyone who watched Barkley at Penn State knew that he was not a I formation, run the ball between the tackles kind of back. His skills were best utilized in a read option, primarily shotgun based offense, that got him into space, one on one with either slower or smaller players. Pat Shurmur understood this. Jason Garrett does not seem to.
Barkley is not a complete RB. No one should tell themselves otherwise. Therefore he is not an every down RB in Jason Garrett’s offense. He was in Shurmurs. And was very successful when healthy. I’m not sure that what Barkley cannot do is important. What is important is what he (and by extension Daniel Jones) can do. I look at Saquon and I see Marshall Faulk potential that is being used like Adrian Peterson. Very different types of players. I’m not saying Saquon is Marshall Faulk, but he can be in the right offense.
So what to do…The reality is, the Giants need to find a low cost, effective between the tackles RB to pair with Barkley. I know that nobody wants to hear this. I know people will scream “but he was a number two overall pick guaranteed good jacket”. All I can say is throw that out. Doesn’t matter now. We have what we have. He has the skill set he has. He’s a big David Meggett. Jason Garrett either needs to change his offensive approach, and do more of what he did on Thursday night, or he has to go, soon.
College football is the laboratory and talent pool for the NFL. And the college game produces offensive players that take advantage of space, misdirection, and placing individual defenses players in conflict. Go watch Penn State footage from Barkley’s and Trace McSorleys college career. The Giants offense needs to incorporate more college concepts. The two key pieces of the offense, Jones and Barkley, are perfect examples of how the college game is different today than 10 years ago and how it is changed the NFL.
Daniel Jones is not a Tom Brady or Eli Manning style QB. He’s more like a Carson Wentz type (don’t cringe). Barkley is not a downhill runner and he never was. Stop using him that way. He’s more like Alvin Kamara than Nick Chubb. It’s time to start using the tools we have the right way and stop complaining about what they can’t do.
RE: More and more people are coming around on this.
Anytime one of the news articles is actually publishing it, it means the idea has reached a critical mass of sorts.
It's unfortunate, but Barkley was a wasted pick.
Unless you understand WHY, exactly, he was picked. Wasn't really to win games, though I'm sure that was a hope. It was to make the team watchable at a time when they knew it otherwise wasn't, and wouldn't be for a few years. I understood it at the time, and felt bad for the young man at the time, and figured he'd be injured in a manner similar to what he was, within a few years. The young man has my sympathies.
We pass on him and he goes to another team stays healthy and tears up the league by being used in an optimum way.
Is there now a thread saying we blew it by passing on him?
I can’t speak for anyone else, but my aversion to the pick was less about the player, and more about the position. You look around the NFL, and many of the best backs were found in 3rd and 4th rounds. Even those taken in the 1st were rarely top 10 picks. My preference in that draft was to trade down and amass picks, like Indy did with the Jets.
So if SB was on another team tearing it up, I’d say congrats.
there is no guarantee he'll bounce back from surgery to 2018 Barkley. Everyone thinks ACL is automatic these days, but the list of people who have recovered to their pre- injury production status is a lot shorter than those who haven't.
there is no guarantee he'll bounce back from surgery to 2018 Barkley. Everyone thinks ACL is automatic these days, but the list of people who have recovered to their pre- injury production status is a lot shorter than those who haven't.
For me this is the bigger issue. Not sure why people want to bash his 2018, but he was excellent and one of the top backs in the league as a rookie. He was rookie of the year and an All Pro. He' basically been hurt since. I think right now he's doing ok, but he's clearly not himself and clearly not the player he was. It may be half a season until we know for sure if he can get back to what he was
He could never pass block and he can't grind out tough yards. I see him as a system back - imagine him in Andy Reid's offense? He'd be unstoppable. The Brian Westbrook/Shady McCoy role.
Here, in a traditional offense such as Garrett's or Gilbride's? He's borderline unplayable.
Is that most of the rbs they put in his place seemed to be way more productive between the tackles. It really seems like he lacks that type of vision and patience. He has tremendous vision in some regards and I’m not up on football blocking schemes to know the right words to say what I’m trying to say here, But as far as the eye test goes, valid or not, he has a specific skill set that can yards outside the tackles when there looks like nothing, but cannot slip through small cracks in the line. His skill set is amazing. But it’s a specific skill set, rather than a “generational talent”. The giants would be bananas to resign him.
Who cares where he was drafted - it just doesn’t make sense. If you can’t build or run a scheme that takes advantage of his skill set, why bother? Furthermore, while not statistical outliers, someone in the 85th percentile of shiftiness on the outside would probably cost one half. You’re paying out the rear for that extra 10-15% when it won’t put the giants over the top anyway.
I wish him success regardless of where he plays.
Jesse….defenses are called massively differently when Saquon
is in the back field. DCs are still scared shitless of him and it certainly helps open things downfield. He hasn’t been good so far, but his presence is still felt. I do not understand running him out of tight formations, especially when our OL can’t run block worth a shit right now. It’s not his strength when they don’t do their jobs up front and certainly not our OLs. Ironically if they could it would be big gain after big gain. We should be spreading teams out and make them choose. I really hope our coaching staff “looks at the tape” and realizes this.
RE: Jesse….defenses are called massively differently when Saquon
is in the back field. DCs are still scared shitless of him and it certainly helps open things downfield. He hasn’t been good so far, but his presence is still felt. I do not understand running him out of tight formations, especially when our OL can’t run block worth a shit right now. It’s not his strength when they don’t do their jobs up front and certainly not our OLs. Ironically if they could it would be big gain after big gain. We should be spreading teams out and make them choose. I really hope our coaching staff “looks at the tape” and realizes this.
What criteria are you using to determine that opposing defenses are "scared shitless" of Barkley?
that picking Barkley at #2 was a big mistake. You don't draft a RB that high in todays NFL. Most of the best RB's in the league were drafted after the second round. Derrick Henry won a Heisman, rushed for 1,500 then 2 in back to back years and the Titans found him in the second round. Imagine how much better the offense would be had they taken Nelson in round one then Chubb in round 2? And no, you don't give him a second contract. The last time a team won a SB with a star RB was the Seahawks in 2013. Since them teams have won a SM with CJ Anderson, Blount, James White, Damien Williams, Fournette ect...
Since before he was drafted. Bottom line is he’s not a complete back and they need to trade him before this doofus front office gives him a McCafrey contract.
RE: I think it’s in the best interest of everyone involved that he be
He was generational when Eli was behind center and the line was still really bad, you can argue worse than it is now. A smart QB can audible and make the right call based on how the defense lines up and what tells it has. Saquon is just running at 7 people that know he’s coming. Shurmur knew how to use him, Garrett doesn’t. Let’s see how he does under a more modern thinking OC before calling him a bust. Derrick Henry couldn’t produce… until all of a sudden he could.
Remember last game when we called an obvious run play to the left, one of the defenders went and got the safety and was like “this is an obvious run play to the left just stand right fucking here that’s where the ball is going” and then we still ran the obvious run play to the left for -2 yards directly into the wall of guys… good times
He very well could be a “generational player” he just happens to play in the wrong generation. These days there is absolutely no need to pick a RB at #2. If you’re picking at #2 then a running back should be the last thing you’re concerned about.
RE: Jesse….defenses are called massively differently when Saquon
is in the back field. DCs are still scared shitless of him and it certainly helps open things downfield. He hasn’t been good so far, but his presence is still felt. I do not understand running him out of tight formations, especially when our OL can’t run block worth a shit right now. It’s not his strength when they don’t do their jobs up front and certainly not our OLs. Ironically if they could it would be big gain after big gain. We should be spreading teams out and make them choose. I really hope our coaching staff “looks at the tape” and realizes this.
That’s certainly possible but beyond my pay grade!
And the read option doesn't work nearly as well without Saquon back
there, they pretty much decided early they were going to let DJ beat him and he almost set a franchise rushing record. Soon teams will play to stop DJ and Saquon will get his big runs. Or eventually, a really big pass play out of RPO when you throw it out there if they want to cover both. This really should be a major part of our offense. It's a damn shame whatever is going on with Toney because he could be a tremendous weapon in the RPO.
paying attention. Mara LOVES SB like his own kid. There’s almost NO chance he doesn’t resign Barkley to a huge second contract, which will be a colossal mistake.
RE: What throws me off and is impossible to ignore
Is that most of the rbs they put in his place seemed to be way more productive between the tackles. It really seems like he lacks that type of vision and patience. He has tremendous vision in some regards and I’m not up on football blocking schemes to know the right words to say what I’m trying to say here, But as far as the eye test goes, valid or not, he has a specific skill set that can yards outside the tackles when there looks like nothing, but cannot slip through small cracks in the line. His skill set is amazing. But it’s a specific skill set, rather than a “generational talent”. The giants would be bananas to resign him.
Who cares where he was drafted - it just doesn’t make sense. If you can’t build or run a scheme that takes advantage of his skill set, why bother? Furthermore, while not statistical outliers, someone in the 85th percentile of shiftiness on the outside would probably cost one half. You’re paying out the rear for that extra 10-15% when it won’t put the giants over the top anyway.
I wish him success regardless of where he plays.
I remember someone once pointing out that in 2018, Eli was still the QB, and there were plays where you could see Eli telling Barkley where to lineup, where the pressure was coming from, etc.
that picking Barkley at #2 was a big mistake. You don't draft a RB that high in todays NFL. Most of the best RB's in the league were drafted after the second round. Derrick Henry won a Heisman, rushed for 1,500 then 2 in back to back years and the Titans found him in the second round. Imagine how much better the offense would be had they taken Nelson in round one then Chubb in round 2? And no, you don't give him a second contract. The last time a team won a SB with a star RB was the Seahawks in 2013. Since them teams have won a SM with CJ Anderson, Blount, James White, Damien Williams, Fournette ect...
And IIRC Buffalo was the team that drafted Lynch in round #1, not Seattle
Plenty of folks forgetting 2018 and majority of 2019. Go back and watch the games.
Yeah - is he the best runner in the league in between the tackles? No. Was he fine in that department before his knee injury? Yes, he was.
Being “fine” at running between the tackles isn’t a generational running back or one you take 2nd. That’s the point. Most of your runs will be between the tackles.
And most QBs sit in the pocket...but Mahomes, Jackson, Murray - they don't.
RE: RE: What throws me off and is impossible to ignore
Is that most of the rbs they put in his place seemed to be way more productive between the tackles. It really seems like he lacks that type of vision and patience. He has tremendous vision in some regards and I’m not up on football blocking schemes to know the right words to say what I’m trying to say here, But as far as the eye test goes, valid or not, he has a specific skill set that can yards outside the tackles when there looks like nothing, but cannot slip through small cracks in the line. His skill set is amazing. But it’s a specific skill set, rather than a “generational talent”. The giants would be bananas to resign him.
Who cares where he was drafted - it just doesn’t make sense. If you can’t build or run a scheme that takes advantage of his skill set, why bother? Furthermore, while not statistical outliers, someone in the 85th percentile of shiftiness on the outside would probably cost one half. You’re paying out the rear for that extra 10-15% when it won’t put the giants over the top anyway.
I wish him success regardless of where he plays.
I remember someone once pointing out that in 2018, Eli was still the QB, and there were plays where you could see Eli telling Barkley where to lineup, where the pressure was coming from, etc.
One thing I’ve noticed is the stark difference between Eli at the line of scrimmage and Jones. Eli would regularly recite the constitution before the snap, don’t hear much from Jones. Hopefully all those call outs and checks will come with time and experience
a horrendous pick. Everyone knew that at the time except our extremely dumb GM. Even most of the fans who supported it probably knew it was dumb. They were just a combo of people who think anything the Giants do is great and people who wanted Eli to play for as long as possible.
He still has some value though. He's still going to make some big plays this year. I'm fine with trading him or whatever, but he'd almost becoming underrated on here, which is an amazing turn of events.
I guess most of the Gettleman sycophants left, so thats probably part of it too
It's unfortunate, but Barkley was a wasted pick.
Having said that, spending the #2 on Barkley wasn't bad because Barkley is bad, he's not bad, Barkley is great. It was a bad pick because NO RB is worth the #2 pick in today's NFL. Not when you can get the likes of Cook, Chubb, Hunt, etc etc in later rounds.
Nah. He is way better than Bush ever was.
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Worse than the Reggie Bush pick.
Nah. He is way better than Bush ever was.
I did not look at receiving stats, so this is only about rushing the ball, and I'm not some sort of data scientist, but here's what I found.
Saquon had 262 rushes, Bush had I believe around 210.
The median yards gained of Barkleys rushes was 2, the median yards gained of Bushes was 3. The mode of yards gained for Saquon was 1, the mode for Bush was 3.
On his top 5% of carries (e.g. 13 carries with the most yards), Saquon gained 44% of his rushing total. Bush's number was 30%.
When you make it the top 10% of carries, Saquon gained 60% of his yardage total, while Bush gained 40%.
There's obviously a lot more to this picture -- bad offensive line (though I don't really remember the 2011 Dolphins being any good either), and I didn't dive into receiving stats which are obviously huge, but in terms of running the ball, I'd *rather* have the Reggie Bush of 2011 than Saquon of 2018 based on the stats, since he more consistently would pick up yards.
The mode of Barkleys runs was 1, so that was the most likely outcome for a run with him that year.
He is on the 4th year of a rookie deal so this will result in no additional cap hit.
I bet we can get a late first. Time to bite the bullet.
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I had this argument with my friends in one of my FF league and they said the same thing, so I signed up for Statgeek and pulled every single carry from Reggie Bush's 2011 season on the Dolphins and Barkleys rookie year, when both had 5.0 YPC.
I did not look at receiving stats, so this is only about rushing the ball, and I'm not some sort of data scientist, but here's what I found.
Saquon had 262 rushes, Bush had I believe around 210.
The median yards gained of Barkleys rushes was 2, the median yards gained of Bushes was 3. The mode of yards gained for Saquon was 1, the mode for Bush was 3.
On his top 5% of carries (e.g. 13 carries with the most yards), Saquon gained 44% of his rushing total. Bush's number was 30%.
When you make it the top 10% of carries, Saquon gained 60% of his yardage total, while Bush gained 40%.
There's obviously a lot more to this picture -- bad offensive line (though I don't really remember the 2011 Dolphins being any good either), and I didn't dive into receiving stats which are obviously huge, but in terms of running the ball, I'd *rather* have the Reggie Bush of 2011 than Saquon of 2018 based on the stats, since he more consistently would pick up yards.
The mode of Barkleys runs was 1, so that was the most likely outcome for a run with him that year.
You may not be a statistician, but that’s a hell of a job!
Quote:
In comment 15375261 family progtitioner said:
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Worse than the Reggie Bush pick.
Nah. He is way better than Bush ever was.
I had this argument with my friends in one of my FF league and they said the same thing, so I signed up for Statgeek and pulled every single carry from Reggie Bush's 2011 season on the Dolphins and Barkleys rookie year, when both had 5.0 YPC.
I did not look at receiving stats, so this is only about rushing the ball, and I'm not some sort of data scientist, but here's what I found.
Saquon had 262 rushes, Bush had I believe around 210.
The median yards gained of Barkleys rushes was 2, the median yards gained of Bushes was 3. The mode of yards gained for Saquon was 1, the mode for Bush was 3.
On his top 5% of carries (e.g. 13 carries with the most yards), Saquon gained 44% of his rushing total. Bush's number was 30%.
When you make it the top 10% of carries, Saquon gained 60% of his yardage total, while Bush gained 40%.
There's obviously a lot more to this picture -- bad offensive line (though I don't really remember the 2011 Dolphins being any good either), and I didn't dive into receiving stats which are obviously huge, but in terms of running the ball, I'd *rather* have the Reggie Bush of 2011 than Saquon of 2018 based on the stats, since he more consistently would pick up yards.
The mode of Barkleys runs was 1, so that was the most likely outcome for a run with him that year.
Well done all-around with the figures and your comments.
Is there now a thread saying we blew it by passing on him?
Is there now a thread saying we blew it by passing on him?
IDK, no one here as ever said we made a mistake letting Linval Joseph or JPP go :)
Is there now a thread saying we blew it by passing on him?
If the Giants had traded down and/or gotten Quenton Nelson, I wouldn't have even remembered Barkley was an option.
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We pass on him and he goes to another team stays healthy and tears up the league by being used in an optimum way.
Is there now a thread saying we blew it by passing on him?
If the Giants had traded down and/or gotten Quenton Nelson, I wouldn't have even remembered Barkley was an option.
Barkley can still be a big impact player for the Giants if they’re honest about the type of player he is.
Makes zero sense. If he looks like this at end of year, sure, but this reeks of people that hated the pick using it as an opportunity. It’s just not rational or reasonable right now.
Quote:
tons of media and fans piling on Barkley after his first 2 games removed from major surgery.
Makes zero sense. If he looks like this at end of year, sure, but this reeks of people that hated the pick using it as an opportunity. It’s just not rational or reasonable right now.
It really does make sense though, when you take off the Giants colored glasses. Even when healthy he wasn’t an effective runner in between the tackles. That’s fine, definitely not number 2 pick worthy, but you can still win games with the type of player if we start being honest with ourselves.
Quote:
tons of media and fans piling on Barkley after his first 2 games removed from major surgery.
Makes zero sense. If he looks like this at end of year, sure, but this reeks of people that hated the pick using it as an opportunity. It’s just not rational or reasonable right now.
Yeah - is he the best runner in the league in between the tackles? No. Was he fine in that department before his knee injury? Yes, he was.
Yeah - is he the best runner in the league in between the tackles? No. Was he fine in that department before his knee injury? Yes, he was.
Being “fine” at running between the tackles isn’t a generational running back or one you take 2nd. That’s the point. Most of your runs will be between the tackles.
Right now I'd just let him walk,or try and get something for him.I'm ready to take the loss
Barry Sanders running style was not why his teams didn’t win lol
Having said that, spending the #2 on Barkley wasn't bad because Barkley is bad, he's not bad, Barkley is great. It was a bad pick because NO RB is worth the #2 pick in today's NFL. Not when you can get the likes of Cook, Chubb, Hunt, etc etc in later rounds.
if he never/rarely uses his size, what difference does it make?
He is basically Chris Johnson 2.0
Barkley is not a complete RB. No one should tell themselves otherwise. Therefore he is not an every down RB in Jason Garrett’s offense. He was in Shurmurs. And was very successful when healthy. I’m not sure that what Barkley cannot do is important. What is important is what he (and by extension Daniel Jones) can do. I look at Saquon and I see Marshall Faulk potential that is being used like Adrian Peterson. Very different types of players. I’m not saying Saquon is Marshall Faulk, but he can be in the right offense.
So what to do…The reality is, the Giants need to find a low cost, effective between the tackles RB to pair with Barkley. I know that nobody wants to hear this. I know people will scream “but he was a number two overall pick guaranteed good jacket”. All I can say is throw that out. Doesn’t matter now. We have what we have. He has the skill set he has. He’s a big David Meggett. Jason Garrett either needs to change his offensive approach, and do more of what he did on Thursday night, or he has to go, soon.
College football is the laboratory and talent pool for the NFL. And the college game produces offensive players that take advantage of space, misdirection, and placing individual defenses players in conflict. Go watch Penn State footage from Barkley’s and Trace McSorleys college career. The Giants offense needs to incorporate more college concepts. The two key pieces of the offense, Jones and Barkley, are perfect examples of how the college game is different today than 10 years ago and how it is changed the NFL.
Daniel Jones is not a Tom Brady or Eli Manning style QB. He’s more like a Carson Wentz type (don’t cringe). Barkley is not a downhill runner and he never was. Stop using him that way. He’s more like Alvin Kamara than Nick Chubb. It’s time to start using the tools we have the right way and stop complaining about what they can’t do.
It's unfortunate, but Barkley was a wasted pick.
Unless you understand WHY, exactly, he was picked. Wasn't really to win games, though I'm sure that was a hope. It was to make the team watchable at a time when they knew it otherwise wasn't, and wouldn't be for a few years. I understood it at the time, and felt bad for the young man at the time, and figured he'd be injured in a manner similar to what he was, within a few years. The young man has my sympathies.
Is there now a thread saying we blew it by passing on him?
I can’t speak for anyone else, but my aversion to the pick was less about the player, and more about the position. You look around the NFL, and many of the best backs were found in 3rd and 4th rounds. Even those taken in the 1st were rarely top 10 picks. My preference in that draft was to trade down and amass picks, like Indy did with the Jets.
So if SB was on another team tearing it up, I’d say congrats.
Is there now a thread saying we blew it by passing on him?
Of course. Without a doubt. Hindsight is 20/20 and this board is full of armchair GMs that never would have made a bad decision.
For me this is the bigger issue. Not sure why people want to bash his 2018, but he was excellent and one of the top backs in the league as a rookie. He was rookie of the year and an All Pro. He' basically been hurt since. I think right now he's doing ok, but he's clearly not himself and clearly not the player he was. It may be half a season until we know for sure if he can get back to what he was
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We pass on him and he goes to another team stays healthy and tears up the league by being used in an optimum way.
Is there now a thread saying we blew it by passing on him?
Of course. Without a doubt. Hindsight is 20/20 and this board is full of armchair GMs that never would have made a bad decision.
It's not hindsight if you said "don't draft Barkley" before the draft.
Here, in a traditional offense such as Garrett's or Gilbride's? He's borderline unplayable.
Who cares where he was drafted - it just doesn’t make sense. If you can’t build or run a scheme that takes advantage of his skill set, why bother? Furthermore, while not statistical outliers, someone in the 85th percentile of shiftiness on the outside would probably cost one half. You’re paying out the rear for that extra 10-15% when it won’t put the giants over the top anyway.
I wish him success regardless of where he plays.
What criteria are you using to determine that opposing defenses are "scared shitless" of Barkley?
He is on the 4th year of a rookie deal so this will result in no additional cap hit.
I bet we can get a late first. Time to bite the bullet.
I agree with this strategy. I'm not sure we could claw back a first, but I'd take a second plus.
In fact, if we are out of it by the trade deadline this year, I hang the shingle on SB and tell the rest of the league to bring your best offers.
Remember last game when we called an obvious run play to the left, one of the defenders went and got the safety and was like “this is an obvious run play to the left just stand right fucking here that’s where the ball is going” and then we still ran the obvious run play to the left for -2 yards directly into the wall of guys… good times
He very well could be a “generational player” he just happens to play in the wrong generation. These days there is absolutely no need to pick a RB at #2. If you’re picking at #2 then a running back should be the last thing you’re concerned about.
That’s certainly possible but beyond my pay grade!
It the opposite of fantasy football
Who cares where he was drafted - it just doesn’t make sense. If you can’t build or run a scheme that takes advantage of his skill set, why bother? Furthermore, while not statistical outliers, someone in the 85th percentile of shiftiness on the outside would probably cost one half. You’re paying out the rear for that extra 10-15% when it won’t put the giants over the top anyway.
I wish him success regardless of where he plays.
I remember someone once pointing out that in 2018, Eli was still the QB, and there were plays where you could see Eli telling Barkley where to lineup, where the pressure was coming from, etc.
And IIRC Buffalo was the team that drafted Lynch in round #1, not Seattle
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Plenty of folks forgetting 2018 and majority of 2019. Go back and watch the games.
Yeah - is he the best runner in the league in between the tackles? No. Was he fine in that department before his knee injury? Yes, he was.
Being “fine” at running between the tackles isn’t a generational running back or one you take 2nd. That’s the point. Most of your runs will be between the tackles.
And most QBs sit in the pocket...but Mahomes, Jackson, Murray - they don't.
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Is that most of the rbs they put in his place seemed to be way more productive between the tackles. It really seems like he lacks that type of vision and patience. He has tremendous vision in some regards and I’m not up on football blocking schemes to know the right words to say what I’m trying to say here, But as far as the eye test goes, valid or not, he has a specific skill set that can yards outside the tackles when there looks like nothing, but cannot slip through small cracks in the line. His skill set is amazing. But it’s a specific skill set, rather than a “generational talent”. The giants would be bananas to resign him.
Who cares where he was drafted - it just doesn’t make sense. If you can’t build or run a scheme that takes advantage of his skill set, why bother? Furthermore, while not statistical outliers, someone in the 85th percentile of shiftiness on the outside would probably cost one half. You’re paying out the rear for that extra 10-15% when it won’t put the giants over the top anyway.
I wish him success regardless of where he plays.
I remember someone once pointing out that in 2018, Eli was still the QB, and there were plays where you could see Eli telling Barkley where to lineup, where the pressure was coming from, etc.
One thing I’ve noticed is the stark difference between Eli at the line of scrimmage and Jones. Eli would regularly recite the constitution before the snap, don’t hear much from Jones. Hopefully all those call outs and checks will come with time and experience
He still has some value though. He's still going to make some big plays this year. I'm fine with trading him or whatever, but he'd almost becoming underrated on here, which is an amazing turn of events.
I guess most of the Gettleman sycophants left, so thats probably part of it too