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Sy'56's Giants-Washington Game Review

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/18/2021 7:47 pm
FYI...


Game Review: Washington Football Team 30 – New York Giants 29 - ( New Window )
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good stuff Sy. Thanks.  
Victor in CT : 9/19/2021 8:44 am : link
Barkley does indeed look timid. If this is still the case after the quarter pole, than I would have to agree that it's time to move on and in hindsight was a mistake. I also really wanted him in that draft. Very disappointing start, but I'm willing to give him a couple of more games to regain his confidence and vision post-injury.
Thanks Sy!  
Kev in Cali : 9/19/2021 8:52 am : link
Appreciate your time and reviews!
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/19/2021 8:54 am : link
Thanks for the sobering review. I'm starting to think the same re. #26...
RE: Ximinis..  
Carson53 : 9/19/2021 8:57 am : link
In comment 15375848 The_Boss said:
Quote:
👎
.

Here is two thumbs down...
I have to admit  
Carson53 : 9/19/2021 9:00 am : link
I actually didn't see the play that Gates was hurt.
It was near the end of the Yanks game, so early on,
was going back and forth...Since they didn't show it again,
I would have to gather it was gruesome! Hopefully he recovers well from this injury.
Ximines  
section125 : 9/19/2021 9:37 am : link
is basically a waste of a roster spot. He does nothing.

Thanks Sy. Like a couple others, I think the line play was pretty good in the 2nd half. I also wonder why they did not just put Bredesen at LG to start the game.


Patrick Graham has to tighten up that back seven. It is like he is the antithesis of last season. Now he has all the parts and does not know what to do with it(them).
RE: RE: Thanks, Sy!  
FStubbs : 9/19/2021 9:54 am : link
In comment 15375916 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 15375876 TC said:


Quote:


But despite all-world athletic talent is an NFL RB who is terrified of contact really an NFL RB? In his FOURTH year with the Giants, how many games can you point to and say he made the winning difference?



Since the Giants drafted Saquon, they have a better record in games he doesn't play than in games he plays. I am beginning to thing that's not a statistical anomaly.


It's not. Barkley is a gadget player. I posted this before, let me post it again.

RB A carries 20 times for 80 yards. He has one 40 yard run, one 15 yard run, and 18 other carries for 35 yards.

RB B carries 20 times for 80 yards. His longest runs are a pair of 6 yarders, meaning his 18 other carries went for 68 yards.

In the modern NFL, you gain more yards through the air than you do on the ground. The purpose of the ground game is consistent positive yardage to set up more favorable passing downs, or to get the 2-3 yards needed for a first down.

RB A can't give you that at all. The team probably scores on the drive with the 40 yard run, but any other drive probably stalled at some point due to all the wasted downs RB A provided.

RB B gets that consistent yardage needed.

In case you were still wondering, Barkley is RB A. He literally prevents you from winning ball games if he's a featured back, but he'll get one or two highlight reel plays.

The proper way to use Barkley is a change of pace back, a guy you line up around the field to create mismatches. Even Garrett had Barkley split wide here and there.

People used to complain when Shurmur would limit Barkley's carries and go away from him in the 2nd half, but I think Shurmur - at least on some level - realized this.
Was Graham trying to confuse  
Simms11 : 9/19/2021 9:59 am : link
Heineke with a soft zone? If that didn't work, why not play more man? They actually did play some man, but IMO, not enough, especially in 2nd half. Pass Rush needs to improve, otherwise it's going to be another rough, rough year for Giants fans. I can see us drafting pass rushers, Edge defenders again next year at the top of the draft. I wonder if Ellerson Smith will get in at some point this year and show us something?!
Watch film of Barkley when Penn State played good teams  
GeofromNJ : 9/19/2021 10:02 am : link
He got very little if any yardage. He ran away from nobody. He eluded nobody. He ran over nobody. Gettleman made a major blunder drafting Barkley and passing on Allen. If Gettleman had drafted Allen, he could have taken Nick Chubb on the 2nd round. If we had Allen, the Giants would be post season threats for the next ten years. And yeah, I know the Bills lost to the Steelers week one.
FStubbs  
cosmicj : 9/19/2021 10:10 am : link
Liked your analysis again on rereading it.

One thing that concerned me on Thursday was that Barkley twice (by my count) made short receptions and had some space to maneuver and each time the defending player tackled him without difficulty. Small sample size but I’m not seeing any elusiveness. I’m absolutely in favor of putting him on the trade block and seeing what we can get.

The other comment is that we are fans on a forum. I would think that data and wisdom about average yards and variability of gains would be common knowledge among front office types. Now a scout could look at Barkley’s career and PSU and attribute the variability of his results there to the scheme and the PSU OL but then you are immediately making a projection and assuming that Barkley’s style and vision will adapt in the NFL. that projection immediately means that Barkley can’t be the highest rated player in two decades, per DG’s own personal assessment. It changes Barkley into an intriguing but risky pick, not some slam dunk.

Gettleman is being criticized for drafting an HB at the 2 spot, a lot, but he should also be criticized for getting the basic scouting wrong. He was overrating Barkley because he didn’t understand the value HBs bring to the modern NFL. It’s absolutely damning.
Love to hear your thoughts on how Toney could/should be utilized.  
CT Charlie : 9/19/2021 10:40 am : link
All of us are speculating, but you at least know what you're talking about when evaluating a player based on college tape.
the duds  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 9/19/2021 11:00 am : link
I won't argue with the duds you picked, but I would have picked the coaching staff for the poor game planning and maybe added Dexter Lawrence who as you said was not heard from all game until the fateful offsides on the last play.

Being unprepared after timeouts is dreadful especially when we hear all the coach speak about fundamentals from Joe Judge.
Poorly designed, poorly executed football.  
Crispino : 9/19/2021 12:05 pm : link
Again. New coaching staffs come and go. Players come and go. The losing is the only constant.
Sy’56  
M.S. : 9/19/2021 12:06 pm : link

Much appreciate your insightful analysis of game! Always an enjoyable read.

One note about Adoree’ Jackson — I thought he played very well. I also don’t see any issue with the Ricky Seals-Jones TD. That ball was placed where Adoree’ could never touch it. I think that’s a TD every time unless Adoree grows another 6-10 inches in height!
as good as washington is being touted  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/19/2021 12:34 pm : link
and as bad as the Giants are being portrayed

the difference in winning or losing the Washington Giants game was 1 bad call by a referee --

If Washington is so good -- why was Jones able to march up and down the field against them? Does this mean Jones is elite in that he can move the ball against a vaunted Defense?

I think the offensive line played much better than I expected them to -- Baldy put out some very good tape on the center -- Bredeson needs some work though -- hopefully he just needs reps

Barkley will improve - so will Golladay and Toney and Ojulari
they basically all had no preseason

the thing that has me scratching my head is the backfield -- they should be playing much better than they are. It was being touted as one of the best backfields in football -- no all of a sudden they can't play -- doesn't make any sense at all
RE: as good as washington is being touted  
Matt M. : 9/19/2021 1:30 pm : link
In comment 15376111 gidiefor said:
Quote:
and as bad as the Giants are being portrayed

the difference in winning or losing the Washington Giants game was 1 bad call by a referee --

If Washington is so good -- why was Jones able to march up and down the field against them? Does this mean Jones is elite in that he can move the ball against a vaunted Defense?

I think the offensive line played much better than I expected them to -- Baldy put out some very good tape on the center -- Bredeson needs some work though -- hopefully he just needs reps

Barkley will improve - so will Golladay and Toney and Ojulari
they basically all had no preseason

the thing that has me scratching my head is the backfield -- they should be playing much better than they are. It was being touted as one of the best backfields in football -- no all of a sudden they can't play -- doesn't make any sense at all
Assuming you are referring to the defensive backfield, or secondary, I agree. But, I blame that more on scheme than players. We play an inordinate amount of zone, but not just zone. a soft zone with very deep S. It leaves huge holes, especially in the middle of the field. We obviously can't play exclusively man, but we do need more man. We also need to press more. WRs and coming off the line completely uncontested.
RE: as good as washington is being touted  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/19/2021 1:54 pm : link
In comment 15376111 gidiefor said:
Quote:
and as bad as the Giants are being portrayed

the difference in winning or losing the Washington Giants game was 1 bad call by a referee --

If Washington is so good -- why was Jones able to march up and down the field against them? Does this mean Jones is elite in that he can move the ball against a vaunted Defense?

I think the offensive line played much better than I expected them to -- Baldy put out some very good tape on the center -- Bredeson needs some work though -- hopefully he just needs reps

Barkley will improve - so will Golladay and Toney and Ojulari
they basically all had no preseason

the thing that has me scratching my head is the backfield -- they should be playing much better than they are. It was being touted as one of the best backfields in football -- no all of a sudden they can't play -- doesn't make any sense at all


I dont think Washington is that great and I'm not sure who was screaming that they are, but respectfully, no, the difference between winning and losing was not 1 play. That game should never have come down to a field goal. That game was given away. They couldn't expand their lead to put the game out of reach. They couldn't run out the clock with a lead, they let WFT go the length of the field in two plays, and they would have been bailed out by a missed GW kick but for a ST penalty.


With regard to Jones, he never plays badly against Washington. We know this. It's on paper. It's the other games where he doesn't raise to the standard. I dont think it's too much to ask that Jones play like this each game. This wasn't a dominant, Aaron Rodgers, mahomes type clinic. It was a good, solid night. We've been getting lackluster QB play for so long we're starting to confused a good game for an exceptional one.
RE: Sy’56  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/19/2021 3:03 pm : link
In comment 15376073 M.S. said:
Quote:

Much appreciate your insightful analysis of game! Always an enjoyable read.

One note about Adoree’ Jackson — I thought he played very well. I also don’t see any issue with the Ricky Seals-Jones TD. That ball was placed where Adoree’ could never touch it. I think that’s a TD every time unless Adoree grows another 6-10 inches in height!


ITA. I’m a little shocked that Jackson was one of his “duds”.

I also think Sy’s “drops” counts for Slayton and Golladay are low and his comparison of Odell and Golladay is off base and comes off as an unnecessary shot at Beckham. Slayton also dropped that ball on the sideline on the second to last drive because of bad hand placement. It also seemed like Golladay got both hands on more than one ball that he couldn’t bring in. As for Beckham, he’d never have the nerve to yell at the QB when he dropped multiple passes. Golladay came across as completely clueless. I don’t understand why Sy gave him a pass for any of it.

Where I agree with Sy’s review is his questioning of the design of Garrett’s plays. Even in week one, there’s so many runs directly into the teeth of the defense. That’s fine if you have Zeke, Zack Martin, Tyron Smith, and Travis Frederick. The entire coaching staff seems to be struggling to adjust to what they have and not what they want.
RE: RE: Sy’56  
Strahan91 : 9/19/2021 4:26 pm : link
In comment 15376324 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
As for Beckham, he’d never have the nerve to yell at the QB when he dropped multiple passes. Golladay came across as completely clueless. I don’t understand why Sy gave him a pass for any of it.

Golladay clearly wasn't yelling at Jones. If you watch the video, he's yelling before Jones comes over. Something that got blown out of proportion from the clip of it.
TY Sy  
STLGiant : 9/19/2021 4:40 pm : link
Great read.
The  
AcidTest : 9/19/2021 7:56 pm : link
secondary would be better if we had pass rush. I agree that Ximines looks like a backup at best. Maybe Roche can provide some pass rush. A lack of edge rushers has plagued this team for years. Just another problem DG hasn't solved.

But I'm still confused about why we are playing so much zone with two CBs who are best playing man.
RE: Can’t argue  
Sy'56 : 9/19/2021 9:33 pm : link
In comment 15375788 Joe Beckwith said:
Quote:
any point in the review.
Just one question: do you think the loss of Tomlinson, and Hill, as some fans have mentioned, impact not getting to the QB or collapsing the pocket?

Thanks ,as always, Sy.


Haas the duo of Tomlinson and Hill been replaced?

The answer is no.

Do they need to be replaced?

The answer is no.

The Moneyball approach applies here. Their production (4.5 sacks / 13 QB Hits) with *solid run defense needs to be replaced along the defense. NYG is better on the edge and I think the LB core is better overall.
RE: Thanks Sy as always  
Sy'56 : 9/19/2021 9:34 pm : link
In comment 15375793 Jimmy Meatballs said:
Quote:
I’m curious about your assessment of Judge in game management so far. The delay of game after a timeout, losing a timeout to an illegal challenge last week, and several timeouts where it seemed the Giants were lined up wrong. Is this an area of concern and does it fall on Judge?


There are a few things I don't like about Judge, you mentioned two of them. He deserves more time, at least a year-plus...but the silly mistakes need to stop especially if he is going to make his players run laps for making silly mistakes.
RE: Any comments on Toney's game?  
Sy'56 : 9/19/2021 9:37 pm : link
In comment 15375823 BocaGene said:
Quote:
.


Who's Toney?
RE: Sy...  
Sy'56 : 9/19/2021 9:38 pm : link
In comment 15375834 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Don't you think it was a tale of two halfs for the OL?

They pass protected so much better in the second half. WFT's DL went very quiet in the second half...


You could say that, for sure. I did mention in the review that this was a tough eval for the OL. At the end of the game, however, there were just too many negatives. NYG fans may not fully know what a good OL performance actually is...because it has been that long.
RE: good stuff Sy. Thanks.  
Sy'56 : 9/19/2021 9:40 pm : link
In comment 15375921 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
Barkley does indeed look timid. If this is still the case after the quarter pole, than I would have to agree that it's time to move on and in hindsight was a mistake. I also really wanted him in that draft. Very disappointing start, but I'm willing to give him a couple of more games to regain his confidence and vision post-injury.


Well, he gets until the end of 2022.
RE: Love to hear your thoughts on how Toney could/should be utilized.  
Sy'56 : 9/19/2021 9:42 pm : link
In comment 15376013 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
All of us are speculating, but you at least know what you're talking about when evaluating a player based on college tape.


I think it needs to be overly simple. If they want to keep running these jet sweeps, give him a crack at it. Get him a WR screen or two. Put him in the backfield and get him the ball in a hurry.

Toney was at his best when defenders were trying to tackle him. He wasn't know for routes. He wasn't very good catching the ball in traffic. He was excellent with the ball in his hands. That is what I think they need to do.
Sy - Any thoughts to Jones decision making?  
BH28 : 9/19/2021 9:45 pm : link
He seemed more comfortable on the few RPO plays regarding quick decision making. There seemed to be a few times during traditional pass plays where he struggled to pull the trigger or just waited very long to finally make throw. Seemed a little unsure of himself.

Did you see that as well?
RE: The  
Jonesin 4 A Ship : 9/19/2021 10:30 pm : link
In comment 15376824 AcidTest said:
Quote:
secondary would be better if we had pass rush. I agree that Ximines looks like a backup at best. Maybe Roche can provide some pass rush. A lack of edge rushers has plagued this team for years. Just another problem DG hasn't solved.

But I'm still confused about why we are playing so much zone with two CBs who are best playing man.


Acid, while I definitely agree the rush has not been fixed as of yet, would you think that part of the issue with the pass rush is partly to blame on scheme? I mean, we are rushing 4 and playing a soft zone where the underneath route is wide open. Makes it kind of tough to get to the QB when he has a wide open target right in front of his face. I would like to see what this pass rush could do if Graham stopped, in what my opinion is, coaching scared and let his secondary loose.
difference between loser coach and winner coach  
nym172 : 9/19/2021 11:27 pm : link
wow judge descisions look foolish you have to be aggressive in the modern nfl 100% judge punts that ball.
....  
broadbandz : 9/19/2021 11:37 pm : link
Judge would have never of went for it. He doesn't even understand when to go for 2.
Judge is still a young inexperienced HC....  
Simms11 : 9/20/2021 5:23 am : link
He's a smart guy who's still learning how to be a Head Coach. I think he's going to get it, but we have to be patient with him as well. He's never managed a game before, until last year, at any level.
Why draft a gadget player with your first round pick at number 20??  
Rick in Dallas : 9/20/2021 6:24 am : link
It sounds like from Sy's answer on Toney that his playbook is very limited...
One thing I will say re: Toney  
Sy'56 : 9/20/2021 7:37 am : link
You need to be patient here. He missed most of his rookie preseason and was also nicked up. I think you are looking at mid October before you can count on him being a consistent part of the offense.
Thanks Sy!  
ryanmkeane : 9/20/2021 8:23 am : link
do you think Thomas has turned a slight corner?
RE: RE: The  
AcidTest : 9/20/2021 10:04 am : link
In comment 15377042 Jonesin 4 A Ship said:
Quote:
In comment 15376824 AcidTest said:


Quote:


secondary would be better if we had pass rush. I agree that Ximines looks like a backup at best. Maybe Roche can provide some pass rush. A lack of edge rushers has plagued this team for years. Just another problem DG hasn't solved.

But I'm still confused about why we are playing so much zone with two CBs who are best playing man.



Acid, while I definitely agree the rush has not been fixed as of yet, would you think that part of the issue with the pass rush is partly to blame on scheme? I mean, we are rushing 4 and playing a soft zone where the underneath route is wide open. Makes it kind of tough to get to the QB when he has a wide open target right in front of his face. I would like to see what this pass rush could do if Graham stopped, in what my opinion is, coaching scared and let his secondary loose.


Agreed.
Funny that Sy'56 is compelled to comment about...  
Racer : 9/20/2021 10:22 am : link
...how confusing the run game scheme is to him, the same week as a certain podcaster/talking head that everybody here seems to despise commented "Garrett refuses to scheme a run game".

RE: Judge is still a young inexperienced HC....  
FStubbs : 9/20/2021 11:21 am : link
In comment 15377184 Simms11 said:
Quote:
He's a smart guy who's still learning how to be a Head Coach. I think he's going to get it, but we have to be patient with him as well. He's never managed a game before, until last year, at any level.


McAdoo didn't get the same benefit of the doubt, I'm not sure why Judge should, if the losing continues.
RE: FStubbs  
FStubbs : 9/20/2021 11:28 am : link
In comment 15375987 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Liked your analysis again on rereading it.

One thing that concerned me on Thursday was that Barkley twice (by my count) made short receptions and had some space to maneuver and each time the defending player tackled him without difficulty. Small sample size but I’m not seeing any elusiveness. I’m absolutely in favor of putting him on the trade block and seeing what we can get.

The other comment is that we are fans on a forum. I would think that data and wisdom about average yards and variability of gains would be common knowledge among front office types. Now a scout could look at Barkley’s career and PSU and attribute the variability of his results there to the scheme and the PSU OL but then you are immediately making a projection and assuming that Barkley’s style and vision will adapt in the NFL. that projection immediately means that Barkley can’t be the highest rated player in two decades, per DG’s own personal assessment. It changes Barkley into an intriguing but risky pick, not some slam dunk.

Gettleman is being criticized for drafting an HB at the 2 spot, a lot, but he should also be criticized for getting the basic scouting wrong. He was overrating Barkley because he didn’t understand the value HBs bring to the modern NFL. It’s absolutely damning.


If someone offered me a 3rd round pick for him, I'd be tempted to take it and move on. But I don't think any team in the league would be dumb enough to.

But you had tons of people before the draft all over the place talking about the positional value, a few talking about his production vs good teams, but also - how the Giants were literally the worst team he could go to given the offensive line at the time.
RE: RE: FStubbs  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/20/2021 11:34 am : link
In comment 15377513 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15375987 cosmicj said:


Quote:


Liked your analysis again on rereading it.

One thing that concerned me on Thursday was that Barkley twice (by my count) made short receptions and had some space to maneuver and each time the defending player tackled him without difficulty. Small sample size but I’m not seeing any elusiveness. I’m absolutely in favor of putting him on the trade block and seeing what we can get.

The other comment is that we are fans on a forum. I would think that data and wisdom about average yards and variability of gains would be common knowledge among front office types. Now a scout could look at Barkley’s career and PSU and attribute the variability of his results there to the scheme and the PSU OL but then you are immediately making a projection and assuming that Barkley’s style and vision will adapt in the NFL. that projection immediately means that Barkley can’t be the highest rated player in two decades, per DG’s own personal assessment. It changes Barkley into an intriguing but risky pick, not some slam dunk.

Gettleman is being criticized for drafting an HB at the 2 spot, a lot, but he should also be criticized for getting the basic scouting wrong. He was overrating Barkley because he didn’t understand the value HBs bring to the modern NFL. It’s absolutely damning.



If someone offered me a 3rd round pick for him, I'd be tempted to take it and move on. But I don't think any team in the league would be dumb enough to.

But you had tons of people before the draft all over the place talking about the positional value, a few talking about his production vs good teams, but also - how the Giants were literally the worst team he could go to given the offensive line at the time.


Gettleman worked here when the Giants won two super bowls using mid and late round runningbacks behind a great offensive line, and created teams that featured two 1000 yard rushers on the same offense.

I will never understand how the Barkley thing was ever anything more than falling in love with a shiny prospect.

You need to rewatch this play as he was clearly tripped by the LB  
JohnnyFlowers : 9/20/2021 12:27 pm : link
"Is he running scared? On 2nd-and-10 from the 43-yard line in the 4th quarter (6:25 left), Barkley ran through an inside crease and simply fell to the ground. He wasn’t touched, he didn’t trip over his feet. He was anticipating contact, looked scared, and fell to the ground. He tried to save face by punching the ground a few times. He’s done that a handful, if not more, of times over the years. I am starting to turn south on him and I was one banging the table FOR NYG to draft him in 2018"

considering you spent so much on this one play and got it wrong is lazy.
RE: RE: Judge is still a young inexperienced HC....  
Strahan91 : 9/20/2021 12:30 pm : link
In comment 15377503 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15377184 Simms11 said:


Quote:


He's a smart guy who's still learning how to be a Head Coach. I think he's going to get it, but we have to be patient with him as well. He's never managed a game before, until last year, at any level.



McAdoo didn't get the same benefit of the doubt, I'm not sure why Judge should, if the losing continues.

McAdoo would have if not for the Eli benching fiasco. Was it the right decision to fire him over that? Probably not but it happened which makes the situation quite different than with Judge
RE: RE: RE: FStubbs  
Angel Eyes : 9/20/2021 12:30 pm : link
In comment 15377522 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15377513 FStubbs said:


Quote:


In comment 15375987 cosmicj said:


Quote:


Liked your analysis again on rereading it.

One thing that concerned me on Thursday was that Barkley twice (by my count) made short receptions and had some space to maneuver and each time the defending player tackled him without difficulty. Small sample size but I’m not seeing any elusiveness. I’m absolutely in favor of putting him on the trade block and seeing what we can get.

The other comment is that we are fans on a forum. I would think that data and wisdom about average yards and variability of gains would be common knowledge among front office types. Now a scout could look at Barkley’s career and PSU and attribute the variability of his results there to the scheme and the PSU OL but then you are immediately making a projection and assuming that Barkley’s style and vision will adapt in the NFL. that projection immediately means that Barkley can’t be the highest rated player in two decades, per DG’s own personal assessment. It changes Barkley into an intriguing but risky pick, not some slam dunk.

Gettleman is being criticized for drafting an HB at the 2 spot, a lot, but he should also be criticized for getting the basic scouting wrong. He was overrating Barkley because he didn’t understand the value HBs bring to the modern NFL. It’s absolutely damning.



If someone offered me a 3rd round pick for him, I'd be tempted to take it and move on. But I don't think any team in the league would be dumb enough to.

But you had tons of people before the draft all over the place talking about the positional value, a few talking about his production vs good teams, but also - how the Giants were literally the worst team he could go to given the offensive line at the time.



Gettleman worked here when the Giants won two super bowls using mid and late round runningbacks behind a great offensive line, and created teams that featured two 1000 yard rushers on the same offense.

I will never understand how the Barkley thing was ever anything more than falling in love with a shiny prospect.

Plus a master pass rush inside and out with Michael Strahan and Keith Hamilton.
RE: RE: RE: RE: FStubbs  
Angel Eyes : 9/20/2021 12:31 pm : link
In comment 15377588 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15377522 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 15377513 FStubbs said:


Quote:


In comment 15375987 cosmicj said:


Quote:


Liked your analysis again on rereading it.

One thing that concerned me on Thursday was that Barkley twice (by my count) made short receptions and had some space to maneuver and each time the defending player tackled him without difficulty. Small sample size but I’m not seeing any elusiveness. I’m absolutely in favor of putting him on the trade block and seeing what we can get.

The other comment is that we are fans on a forum. I would think that data and wisdom about average yards and variability of gains would be common knowledge among front office types. Now a scout could look at Barkley’s career and PSU and attribute the variability of his results there to the scheme and the PSU OL but then you are immediately making a projection and assuming that Barkley’s style and vision will adapt in the NFL. that projection immediately means that Barkley can’t be the highest rated player in two decades, per DG’s own personal assessment. It changes Barkley into an intriguing but risky pick, not some slam dunk.

Gettleman is being criticized for drafting an HB at the 2 spot, a lot, but he should also be criticized for getting the basic scouting wrong. He was overrating Barkley because he didn’t understand the value HBs bring to the modern NFL. It’s absolutely damning.



If someone offered me a 3rd round pick for him, I'd be tempted to take it and move on. But I don't think any team in the league would be dumb enough to.

But you had tons of people before the draft all over the place talking about the positional value, a few talking about his production vs good teams, but also - how the Giants were literally the worst team he could go to given the offensive line at the time.



Gettleman worked here when the Giants won two super bowls using mid and late round runningbacks behind a great offensive line, and created teams that featured two 1000 yard rushers on the same offense.

I will never understand how the Barkley thing was ever anything more than falling in love with a shiny prospect.



Plus a master pass rush inside and out with Michael Strahan and Keith Hamilton. For being a disciple of Accorsi, Gettleman forgot his mentor's mantra on pass rushers.
I'm starting to think, we should have just  
shadow_spinner0 : 9/20/2021 12:40 pm : link
drafted .Micah Parsons. He started at linebacker last week and moved to the edge Sunday. 90.8 ppf pass rushing grade, Eight pressures, 35% win percentage, 40% pressure percentage. Why didn't we just draft him? It would have solved so many of our problems? Before you say (like some said yesterday) "oh but he looked terrible last week", yes, then they made a change and moved him to Edge where he was far more effective. Him in our lineup at Edge would solve so many problems for this defense. Instead we traded back and drafted Toney and they won't use him for whatever reason.
RE: I'm starting to think, we should have just  
JohnnyFlowers : 9/20/2021 12:43 pm : link
In comment 15377597 shadow_spinner0 said:
Quote:
drafted .Micah Parsons. He started at linebacker last week and moved to the edge Sunday. 90.8 ppf pass rushing grade, Eight pressures, 35% win percentage, 40% pressure percentage. Why didn't we just draft him? It would have solved so many of our problems? Before you say (like some said yesterday) "oh but he looked terrible last week", yes, then they made a change and moved him to Edge where he was far more effective. Him in our lineup at Edge would solve so many problems for this defense. Instead we traded back and drafted Toney and they won't use him for whatever reason.


Why you ask? Did you forget about the draft picks we got back on this?
RE: You need to rewatch this play as he was clearly tripped by the LB  
Sy'56 : 9/20/2021 1:06 pm : link
In comment 15377584 JohnnyFlowers said:
Quote:
"Is he running scared? On 2nd-and-10 from the 43-yard line in the 4th quarter (6:25 left), Barkley ran through an inside crease and simply fell to the ground. He wasn’t touched, he didn’t trip over his feet. He was anticipating contact, looked scared, and fell to the ground. He tried to save face by punching the ground a few times. He’s done that a handful, if not more, of times over the years. I am starting to turn south on him and I was one banging the table FOR NYG to draft him in 2018"

considering you spent so much on this one play and got it wrong is lazy.


You're wrong. And it isn't even close.

And it was actually 6:18 left 4Q.
I'm offended by my character assassination in your game review  
OdellBeckhamJr : 9/20/2021 3:28 pm : link
I was typically getting into arguments with the kicking net, but we made up for it and we're married now.
RE: RE: RE: FStubbs  
Greg from LI : 9/20/2021 3:31 pm : link
In comment 15377522 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
I will never understand how the Barkley thing was ever anything more than falling in love with a shiny prospect.


Hand. Of. God.
RE: RE: RE: Thanks, Sy!  
OdellBeckhamJr : 9/20/2021 8:40 pm : link
In comment 15375973 FStubbs said:
Quote:

People used to complain when Shurmur would limit Barkley's carries and go away from him in the 2nd half, but I think Shurmur - at least on some level - realized this.



From Sy's game review:

Quote:
-Saquon Barkley: 13 att / 101 yards / 1 TD – 7 rec / 41 yards/ 1 TD. What we saw out of Barkley in the first half was a continuation of Barkley further stomping down on the idea that drafting a RB high in round 1 was a bad idea. His level of play is elite on all levels. One thing I’m not sure everyone appreciates enough? 11 games in – 0 fumbles – 0 drops. Running backs are dropping passes weekly and what this kid does when it comes to reliability and consistency is just different level. Once again Shurmur simply underused him. I understand not wanting to give him 40 touches, but this kid needs 25+ as often as possible. Especially when you have a lead like the Giants had in the second half. It is a crime, it is inexcusable, that Barkley had 5 touches total in the second half. Unbelievable.
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