You need to be patient here. He missed most of his rookie preseason and was also nicked up. I think you are looking at mid October before you can count on him being a consistent part of the offense.
secondary would be better if we had pass rush. I agree that Ximines looks like a backup at best. Maybe Roche can provide some pass rush. A lack of edge rushers has plagued this team for years. Just another problem DG hasn't solved.
But I'm still confused about why we are playing so much zone with two CBs who are best playing man.
Acid, while I definitely agree the rush has not been fixed as of yet, would you think that part of the issue with the pass rush is partly to blame on scheme? I mean, we are rushing 4 and playing a soft zone where the underneath route is wide open. Makes it kind of tough to get to the QB when he has a wide open target right in front of his face. I would like to see what this pass rush could do if Graham stopped, in what my opinion is, coaching scared and let his secondary loose.
...how confusing the run game scheme is to him, the same week as a certain podcaster/talking head that everybody here seems to despise commented "Garrett refuses to scheme a run game".
He's a smart guy who's still learning how to be a Head Coach. I think he's going to get it, but we have to be patient with him as well. He's never managed a game before, until last year, at any level.
McAdoo didn't get the same benefit of the doubt, I'm not sure why Judge should, if the losing continues.
One thing that concerned me on Thursday was that Barkley twice (by my count) made short receptions and had some space to maneuver and each time the defending player tackled him without difficulty. Small sample size but I’m not seeing any elusiveness. I’m absolutely in favor of putting him on the trade block and seeing what we can get.
The other comment is that we are fans on a forum. I would think that data and wisdom about average yards and variability of gains would be common knowledge among front office types. Now a scout could look at Barkley’s career and PSU and attribute the variability of his results there to the scheme and the PSU OL but then you are immediately making a projection and assuming that Barkley’s style and vision will adapt in the NFL. that projection immediately means that Barkley can’t be the highest rated player in two decades, per DG’s own personal assessment. It changes Barkley into an intriguing but risky pick, not some slam dunk.
Gettleman is being criticized for drafting an HB at the 2 spot, a lot, but he should also be criticized for getting the basic scouting wrong. He was overrating Barkley because he didn’t understand the value HBs bring to the modern NFL. It’s absolutely damning.
If someone offered me a 3rd round pick for him, I'd be tempted to take it and move on. But I don't think any team in the league would be dumb enough to.
But you had tons of people before the draft all over the place talking about the positional value, a few talking about his production vs good teams, but also - how the Giants were literally the worst team he could go to given the offensive line at the time.
One thing that concerned me on Thursday was that Barkley twice (by my count) made short receptions and had some space to maneuver and each time the defending player tackled him without difficulty. Small sample size but I’m not seeing any elusiveness. I’m absolutely in favor of putting him on the trade block and seeing what we can get.
The other comment is that we are fans on a forum. I would think that data and wisdom about average yards and variability of gains would be common knowledge among front office types. Now a scout could look at Barkley’s career and PSU and attribute the variability of his results there to the scheme and the PSU OL but then you are immediately making a projection and assuming that Barkley’s style and vision will adapt in the NFL. that projection immediately means that Barkley can’t be the highest rated player in two decades, per DG’s own personal assessment. It changes Barkley into an intriguing but risky pick, not some slam dunk.
Gettleman is being criticized for drafting an HB at the 2 spot, a lot, but he should also be criticized for getting the basic scouting wrong. He was overrating Barkley because he didn’t understand the value HBs bring to the modern NFL. It’s absolutely damning.
If someone offered me a 3rd round pick for him, I'd be tempted to take it and move on. But I don't think any team in the league would be dumb enough to.
But you had tons of people before the draft all over the place talking about the positional value, a few talking about his production vs good teams, but also - how the Giants were literally the worst team he could go to given the offensive line at the time.
Gettleman worked here when the Giants won two super bowls using mid and late round runningbacks behind a great offensive line, and created teams that featured two 1000 yard rushers on the same offense.
I will never understand how the Barkley thing was ever anything more than falling in love with a shiny prospect.
You need to rewatch this play as he was clearly tripped by the LB
"Is he running scared? On 2nd-and-10 from the 43-yard line in the 4th quarter (6:25 left), Barkley ran through an inside crease and simply fell to the ground. He wasn’t touched, he didn’t trip over his feet. He was anticipating contact, looked scared, and fell to the ground. He tried to save face by punching the ground a few times. He’s done that a handful, if not more, of times over the years. I am starting to turn south on him and I was one banging the table FOR NYG to draft him in 2018"
considering you spent so much on this one play and got it wrong is lazy.
RE: RE: Judge is still a young inexperienced HC....
He's a smart guy who's still learning how to be a Head Coach. I think he's going to get it, but we have to be patient with him as well. He's never managed a game before, until last year, at any level.
McAdoo didn't get the same benefit of the doubt, I'm not sure why Judge should, if the losing continues.
McAdoo would have if not for the Eli benching fiasco. Was it the right decision to fire him over that? Probably not but it happened which makes the situation quite different than with Judge
One thing that concerned me on Thursday was that Barkley twice (by my count) made short receptions and had some space to maneuver and each time the defending player tackled him without difficulty. Small sample size but I’m not seeing any elusiveness. I’m absolutely in favor of putting him on the trade block and seeing what we can get.
The other comment is that we are fans on a forum. I would think that data and wisdom about average yards and variability of gains would be common knowledge among front office types. Now a scout could look at Barkley’s career and PSU and attribute the variability of his results there to the scheme and the PSU OL but then you are immediately making a projection and assuming that Barkley’s style and vision will adapt in the NFL. that projection immediately means that Barkley can’t be the highest rated player in two decades, per DG’s own personal assessment. It changes Barkley into an intriguing but risky pick, not some slam dunk.
Gettleman is being criticized for drafting an HB at the 2 spot, a lot, but he should also be criticized for getting the basic scouting wrong. He was overrating Barkley because he didn’t understand the value HBs bring to the modern NFL. It’s absolutely damning.
If someone offered me a 3rd round pick for him, I'd be tempted to take it and move on. But I don't think any team in the league would be dumb enough to.
But you had tons of people before the draft all over the place talking about the positional value, a few talking about his production vs good teams, but also - how the Giants were literally the worst team he could go to given the offensive line at the time.
Gettleman worked here when the Giants won two super bowls using mid and late round runningbacks behind a great offensive line, and created teams that featured two 1000 yard rushers on the same offense.
I will never understand how the Barkley thing was ever anything more than falling in love with a shiny prospect.
Plus a master pass rush inside and out with Michael Strahan and Keith Hamilton.
One thing that concerned me on Thursday was that Barkley twice (by my count) made short receptions and had some space to maneuver and each time the defending player tackled him without difficulty. Small sample size but I’m not seeing any elusiveness. I’m absolutely in favor of putting him on the trade block and seeing what we can get.
The other comment is that we are fans on a forum. I would think that data and wisdom about average yards and variability of gains would be common knowledge among front office types. Now a scout could look at Barkley’s career and PSU and attribute the variability of his results there to the scheme and the PSU OL but then you are immediately making a projection and assuming that Barkley’s style and vision will adapt in the NFL. that projection immediately means that Barkley can’t be the highest rated player in two decades, per DG’s own personal assessment. It changes Barkley into an intriguing but risky pick, not some slam dunk.
Gettleman is being criticized for drafting an HB at the 2 spot, a lot, but he should also be criticized for getting the basic scouting wrong. He was overrating Barkley because he didn’t understand the value HBs bring to the modern NFL. It’s absolutely damning.
If someone offered me a 3rd round pick for him, I'd be tempted to take it and move on. But I don't think any team in the league would be dumb enough to.
But you had tons of people before the draft all over the place talking about the positional value, a few talking about his production vs good teams, but also - how the Giants were literally the worst team he could go to given the offensive line at the time.
Gettleman worked here when the Giants won two super bowls using mid and late round runningbacks behind a great offensive line, and created teams that featured two 1000 yard rushers on the same offense.
I will never understand how the Barkley thing was ever anything more than falling in love with a shiny prospect.
Plus a master pass rush inside and out with Michael Strahan and Keith Hamilton. For being a disciple of Accorsi, Gettleman forgot his mentor's mantra on pass rushers.
drafted .Micah Parsons. He started at linebacker last week and moved to the edge Sunday. 90.8 ppf pass rushing grade, Eight pressures, 35% win percentage, 40% pressure percentage. Why didn't we just draft him? It would have solved so many of our problems? Before you say (like some said yesterday) "oh but he looked terrible last week", yes, then they made a change and moved him to Edge where he was far more effective. Him in our lineup at Edge would solve so many problems for this defense. Instead we traded back and drafted Toney and they won't use him for whatever reason.
drafted .Micah Parsons. He started at linebacker last week and moved to the edge Sunday. 90.8 ppf pass rushing grade, Eight pressures, 35% win percentage, 40% pressure percentage. Why didn't we just draft him? It would have solved so many of our problems? Before you say (like some said yesterday) "oh but he looked terrible last week", yes, then they made a change and moved him to Edge where he was far more effective. Him in our lineup at Edge would solve so many problems for this defense. Instead we traded back and drafted Toney and they won't use him for whatever reason.
Why you ask? Did you forget about the draft picks we got back on this?
RE: You need to rewatch this play as he was clearly tripped by the LB
"Is he running scared? On 2nd-and-10 from the 43-yard line in the 4th quarter (6:25 left), Barkley ran through an inside crease and simply fell to the ground. He wasn’t touched, he didn’t trip over his feet. He was anticipating contact, looked scared, and fell to the ground. He tried to save face by punching the ground a few times. He’s done that a handful, if not more, of times over the years. I am starting to turn south on him and I was one banging the table FOR NYG to draft him in 2018"
considering you spent so much on this one play and got it wrong is lazy.
You're wrong. And it isn't even close.
And it was actually 6:18 left 4Q.
I'm offended by my character assassination in your game review
People used to complain when Shurmur would limit Barkley's carries and go away from him in the 2nd half, but I think Shurmur - at least on some level - realized this.
From Sy's game review:
Quote:
-Saquon Barkley: 13 att / 101 yards / 1 TD – 7 rec / 41 yards/ 1 TD. What we saw out of Barkley in the first half was a continuation of Barkley further stomping down on the idea that drafting a RB high in round 1 was a bad idea. His level of play is elite on all levels. One thing I’m not sure everyone appreciates enough? 11 games in – 0 fumbles – 0 drops. Running backs are dropping passes weekly and what this kid does when it comes to reliability and consistency is just different level. Once again Shurmur simply underused him. I understand not wanting to give him 40 touches, but this kid needs 25+ as often as possible. Especially when you have a lead like the Giants had in the second half. It is a crime, it is inexcusable, that Barkley had 5 touches total in the second half. Unbelievable.
Quote:
secondary would be better if we had pass rush. I agree that Ximines looks like a backup at best. Maybe Roche can provide some pass rush. A lack of edge rushers has plagued this team for years. Just another problem DG hasn't solved.
But I'm still confused about why we are playing so much zone with two CBs who are best playing man.
Acid, while I definitely agree the rush has not been fixed as of yet, would you think that part of the issue with the pass rush is partly to blame on scheme? I mean, we are rushing 4 and playing a soft zone where the underneath route is wide open. Makes it kind of tough to get to the QB when he has a wide open target right in front of his face. I would like to see what this pass rush could do if Graham stopped, in what my opinion is, coaching scared and let his secondary loose.
Agreed.
McAdoo didn't get the same benefit of the doubt, I'm not sure why Judge should, if the losing continues.
One thing that concerned me on Thursday was that Barkley twice (by my count) made short receptions and had some space to maneuver and each time the defending player tackled him without difficulty. Small sample size but I’m not seeing any elusiveness. I’m absolutely in favor of putting him on the trade block and seeing what we can get.
The other comment is that we are fans on a forum. I would think that data and wisdom about average yards and variability of gains would be common knowledge among front office types. Now a scout could look at Barkley’s career and PSU and attribute the variability of his results there to the scheme and the PSU OL but then you are immediately making a projection and assuming that Barkley’s style and vision will adapt in the NFL. that projection immediately means that Barkley can’t be the highest rated player in two decades, per DG’s own personal assessment. It changes Barkley into an intriguing but risky pick, not some slam dunk.
Gettleman is being criticized for drafting an HB at the 2 spot, a lot, but he should also be criticized for getting the basic scouting wrong. He was overrating Barkley because he didn’t understand the value HBs bring to the modern NFL. It’s absolutely damning.
If someone offered me a 3rd round pick for him, I'd be tempted to take it and move on. But I don't think any team in the league would be dumb enough to.
But you had tons of people before the draft all over the place talking about the positional value, a few talking about his production vs good teams, but also - how the Giants were literally the worst team he could go to given the offensive line at the time.
Quote:
Liked your analysis again on rereading it.
One thing that concerned me on Thursday was that Barkley twice (by my count) made short receptions and had some space to maneuver and each time the defending player tackled him without difficulty. Small sample size but I’m not seeing any elusiveness. I’m absolutely in favor of putting him on the trade block and seeing what we can get.
The other comment is that we are fans on a forum. I would think that data and wisdom about average yards and variability of gains would be common knowledge among front office types. Now a scout could look at Barkley’s career and PSU and attribute the variability of his results there to the scheme and the PSU OL but then you are immediately making a projection and assuming that Barkley’s style and vision will adapt in the NFL. that projection immediately means that Barkley can’t be the highest rated player in two decades, per DG’s own personal assessment. It changes Barkley into an intriguing but risky pick, not some slam dunk.
Gettleman is being criticized for drafting an HB at the 2 spot, a lot, but he should also be criticized for getting the basic scouting wrong. He was overrating Barkley because he didn’t understand the value HBs bring to the modern NFL. It’s absolutely damning.
If someone offered me a 3rd round pick for him, I'd be tempted to take it and move on. But I don't think any team in the league would be dumb enough to.
But you had tons of people before the draft all over the place talking about the positional value, a few talking about his production vs good teams, but also - how the Giants were literally the worst team he could go to given the offensive line at the time.
Gettleman worked here when the Giants won two super bowls using mid and late round runningbacks behind a great offensive line, and created teams that featured two 1000 yard rushers on the same offense.
I will never understand how the Barkley thing was ever anything more than falling in love with a shiny prospect.
considering you spent so much on this one play and got it wrong is lazy.
Quote:
He's a smart guy who's still learning how to be a Head Coach. I think he's going to get it, but we have to be patient with him as well. He's never managed a game before, until last year, at any level.
McAdoo didn't get the same benefit of the doubt, I'm not sure why Judge should, if the losing continues.
McAdoo would have if not for the Eli benching fiasco. Was it the right decision to fire him over that? Probably not but it happened which makes the situation quite different than with Judge
Quote:
In comment 15375987 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Liked your analysis again on rereading it.
One thing that concerned me on Thursday was that Barkley twice (by my count) made short receptions and had some space to maneuver and each time the defending player tackled him without difficulty. Small sample size but I’m not seeing any elusiveness. I’m absolutely in favor of putting him on the trade block and seeing what we can get.
The other comment is that we are fans on a forum. I would think that data and wisdom about average yards and variability of gains would be common knowledge among front office types. Now a scout could look at Barkley’s career and PSU and attribute the variability of his results there to the scheme and the PSU OL but then you are immediately making a projection and assuming that Barkley’s style and vision will adapt in the NFL. that projection immediately means that Barkley can’t be the highest rated player in two decades, per DG’s own personal assessment. It changes Barkley into an intriguing but risky pick, not some slam dunk.
Gettleman is being criticized for drafting an HB at the 2 spot, a lot, but he should also be criticized for getting the basic scouting wrong. He was overrating Barkley because he didn’t understand the value HBs bring to the modern NFL. It’s absolutely damning.
If someone offered me a 3rd round pick for him, I'd be tempted to take it and move on. But I don't think any team in the league would be dumb enough to.
But you had tons of people before the draft all over the place talking about the positional value, a few talking about his production vs good teams, but also - how the Giants were literally the worst team he could go to given the offensive line at the time.
Gettleman worked here when the Giants won two super bowls using mid and late round runningbacks behind a great offensive line, and created teams that featured two 1000 yard rushers on the same offense.
I will never understand how the Barkley thing was ever anything more than falling in love with a shiny prospect.
Plus a master pass rush inside and out with Michael Strahan and Keith Hamilton.
Quote:
In comment 15377513 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15375987 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Liked your analysis again on rereading it.
One thing that concerned me on Thursday was that Barkley twice (by my count) made short receptions and had some space to maneuver and each time the defending player tackled him without difficulty. Small sample size but I’m not seeing any elusiveness. I’m absolutely in favor of putting him on the trade block and seeing what we can get.
The other comment is that we are fans on a forum. I would think that data and wisdom about average yards and variability of gains would be common knowledge among front office types. Now a scout could look at Barkley’s career and PSU and attribute the variability of his results there to the scheme and the PSU OL but then you are immediately making a projection and assuming that Barkley’s style and vision will adapt in the NFL. that projection immediately means that Barkley can’t be the highest rated player in two decades, per DG’s own personal assessment. It changes Barkley into an intriguing but risky pick, not some slam dunk.
Gettleman is being criticized for drafting an HB at the 2 spot, a lot, but he should also be criticized for getting the basic scouting wrong. He was overrating Barkley because he didn’t understand the value HBs bring to the modern NFL. It’s absolutely damning.
If someone offered me a 3rd round pick for him, I'd be tempted to take it and move on. But I don't think any team in the league would be dumb enough to.
But you had tons of people before the draft all over the place talking about the positional value, a few talking about his production vs good teams, but also - how the Giants were literally the worst team he could go to given the offensive line at the time.
Gettleman worked here when the Giants won two super bowls using mid and late round runningbacks behind a great offensive line, and created teams that featured two 1000 yard rushers on the same offense.
I will never understand how the Barkley thing was ever anything more than falling in love with a shiny prospect.
Plus a master pass rush inside and out with Michael Strahan and Keith Hamilton. For being a disciple of Accorsi, Gettleman forgot his mentor's mantra on pass rushers.
Why you ask? Did you forget about the draft picks we got back on this?
considering you spent so much on this one play and got it wrong is lazy.
You're wrong. And it isn't even close.
And it was actually 6:18 left 4Q.
Hand. Of. God.
People used to complain when Shurmur would limit Barkley's carries and go away from him in the 2nd half, but I think Shurmur - at least on some level - realized this.
From Sy's game review: