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K Toney

BigBlueJ : 9/19/2021 10:33 am
I think the consensus from us fans and experts were; does this organization and coaching staff have any clue on how to use this talent. I know my fear stemmed from the overall conservativeness of this organization from top to bottom, not understanding how to get enough value out of this type of x-factor player who is explosives' but raw.

They would take a look at him in camp and scratch their heads because of the lack of polish (not the other distractions withstanding), and end up using every excuse in the book not to get him in a position to contribute. Now I know it is early, but it is clear that trust is a major issue, compounding that issue is a very risk adverse head coach and a very old school OC in which I see a very tenuous continuation of development for yet another 1st round draft pick.
I'm not quite ready to give up hope yet  
DC Gmen Fan : 9/19/2021 10:40 am : link
but it has been frustrating to see the Giants *seemingly* squander high 1st round picks over the past few years.

That said, the way things are going, we'll have plenty more chances at high round picks, but unfortunately I don't see them using them wisely either.
How about,  
section125 : 9/19/2021 10:47 am : link
he missed almost the entirety of camp. He has to learn and use the playbook on the field and make the correct reads. He needs a bit of chemistry with Jones.

Jones trusts Shepard and Slayton the most, knows how they run and where they will be. He seems to be picking up Rudolph. Next will be Golladay and then Toney. It would be really nice to see a double slot set - Slayton and Shepard on one side and Golladay and Toney on the other. And yes, Garrett needs to come up with plays (and end the jet sweep fascination) to utilize Toney.
Not rocket science to remember a few routes  
Giants73 : 9/19/2021 10:54 am : link
This is probably more of Judge trying to prove points. Unless this guy is a Rubin Randel , he should be able to remember a few routes and they should have him out there
RE: How about,  
Vinny from Danbury : 9/19/2021 10:54 am : link
In comment 15376017 section125 said:
Quote:
he missed almost the entirety of camp. He has to learn and use the playbook on the field and make the correct reads. He needs a bit of chemistry with Jones.

Jones trusts Shepard and Slayton the most, knows how they run and where they will be. He seems to be picking up Rudolph. Next will be Golladay and then Toney. It would be really nice to see a double slot set - Slayton and Shepard on one side and Golladay and Toney on the other. And yes, Garrett needs to come up with plays (and end the jet sweep fascination) to utilize Toney.


Rare to read a rational and logical opinion on BBI. Thanks!
I’d like to see him get some plays in the read option as back  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/19/2021 10:57 am : link
and outside in the RPO.
Not my consensus  
WillieYoung : 9/19/2021 10:58 am : link
Hasn't shown he has any NFL talent. Another big fish in the college pond until he proves otherwise. What has he done to earn opportunities? Nothing.
The guy has to earn his opportunities but Judge  
NYGgolfer : 9/19/2021 11:13 am : link
could be doing a disservice to his early psyche on the team by not getting him more engaged. He is clearly showing immaturity with his actions, and it doesn’t appear his situations are getting better on the path they are taking.

Judge has continually said Toney is doing everything the coaches have asked from him. So unless that is a lie, they must not be giving him much. There has got to be some way to get him more involved, even as mentioned on returns or some simple slot routes.
He played 19 snaps  
Dave on the UWS : 9/19/2021 11:25 am : link
It’s not like he’s riding the pine. Him missing g ALL of the off season really screwed him. At best, it’s going to be a process. The better question is “was he really necessary?” I think we ALL know the answer to that. His selection has Mara’s stink all over it.
He is the #3 kick returner  
mattlawson : 9/19/2021 11:25 am : link
And behind many on the WR depth chart. Perhaps it’s a good old fashioned meritocracy program
It’s concerning.  
CV36 : 9/19/2021 11:41 am : link
At this point I could care less who plays. Just win. I’m not emotionally attached to any player or coach on this team.
Come on  
BillT : 9/19/2021 11:41 am : link
He missed all of camp. You can see how that is affecting even a vet like Golladay. It's going to take some time to get him going. Two games and we're getting this stuff (not that I'm surprised).
I’m not giving up on him at all,  
Section331 : 9/19/2021 11:50 am : link
but he missed almost all of camp and preseason, and is way behind. DC’s know this, so any time he is on the field, they know it will be for a screen or jet sweep. Once he learns the playbook, we’ll see what we’ve got.
Philly’s Smith (who Gettleman got outmaneuvered for) missed  
Metnut : 9/19/2021 11:54 am : link
substantial time in camp and seems to fitting right in. I get he was a higher pick but Toney was still picked high enough that we’d expect this kid to contribute right away.
All good points  
BigBlueJ : 9/19/2021 11:59 am : link
Very positive signs of life for this offense though, excited to see EE's return as well for the Falcons.
Please stop with the crap about his missing Training camp  
Vanzetti : 9/19/2021 12:18 pm : link
Part of the problem is that he is s guy who is always @injured” or otherwise MIA, just like Sam Beal and Marvin Austin.

No one doubts he has physical tools. They doubt his desire, commitment and maturity.
RE: He is the #3 kick returner  
Matt M. : 9/19/2021 12:20 pm : link
In comment 15376051 mattlawson said:
Quote:
And behind many on the WR depth chart. Perhaps it’s a good old fashioned meritocracy program
But, why is he not the primary KR/PR? That is my question. He was drafted to have the ball in his hands in a variety of ways. Whether or not you think he was a wise pick, he's here and needs to be used in ways other than traditional WR, especially with the guys ahead of him. He returned kicks in college and is always a threat to take it to the house.

Given the incumbents, it should be a given to put him back there. Whether or not he's ready at WR, he should be able to return kicks without much thought. Board is a mediocre KR and Peppers is solid and reliable at PR, but certainly not dynamic. If Toney can't even return kicks, I think it is very fair to question the pick.
RE: He played 19 snaps  
section125 : 9/19/2021 12:22 pm : link
In comment 15376050 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:


...... His selection has Mara’s stink all over it.


Ha - what a silly ass thing to say. If anything, he would be the anti-Mara pick.

Get a grip Dave.
RE: RE: He played 19 snaps  
Matt M. : 9/19/2021 12:37 pm : link
In comment 15376094 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15376050 Dave on the UWS said:


Quote:




...... His selection has Mara’s stink all over it.



Ha - what a silly ass thing to say. If anything, he would be the anti-Mara pick.

Get a grip Dave.
Yeah, I saw this as the anti-Mara pick as welll.
RE: I'm not quite ready to give up hope yet  
81_Great_Dane : 9/19/2021 12:41 pm : link
In comment 15376012 DC Gmen Fan said:
Quote:
but it has been frustrating to see the Giants *seemingly* squander high 1st round picks over the past few years.

That said, the way things are going, we'll have plenty more chances at high round picks, but unfortunately I don't see them using them wisely either.
Every team misses on first-round picks. I can't prove it, but I think the Giants hit-to-miss ratio is about average, despite all the rage-posting on BBI.

We are two games into a 17-game season. Odell Beckham Jr. didn't play the first four games of his rookie season and ended up being an impact player. I'm pretty confident Toney will play a lot — but not right away, since he missed so much of camp. The Giants always want their first-round pick on the field. It's just not going to happen at Internet speed.
He;s  
AcidTest : 9/19/2021 1:51 pm : link
off to a bit of a rocky start, but I agree that all of these "he's a bust" conclusions are premature and therefore unwarranted. Can we at least see him play first? And I didn't even want him at #20.
Not ThatnHe’s a Bust  
Samiam : 9/19/2021 2:55 pm : link
But there were other players available at positions of need at then20th pick who would,have made this club better now. Hopefully, Toney becomes a really good player because otherwise he’ll be added to,the list of bad 1st round picks by Gettleman
RE: Not ThatnHe’s a Bust  
DC Gmen Fan : 9/19/2021 3:19 pm : link
In comment 15376313 Samiam said:
Quote:
But there were other players available at positions of need at then20th pick who would,have made this club better now. Hopefully, Toney becomes a really good player because otherwise he’ll be added to,the list of bad 1st round picks by Gettleman


He articulated my thoughts better than I did.
RE: Not rocket science to remember a few routes  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/19/2021 3:23 pm : link
In comment 15376020 Giants73 said:
Quote:
This is probably more of Judge trying to prove points. Unless this guy is a Rubin Randel , he should be able to remember a few routes and they should have him out there


It doesn't work like that. There are pre- and post-snap reads and alterations based on coverage.
Ignore all the other rookie receivers  
HomerJones45 : 9/19/2021 3:36 pm : link
who are starting an contributing. Yes, let's not write him off but let us also acknowledge that he is behind other rookies who are contributing our of the gate.
I would like to hear one of the worthless beats  
Dave on the UWS : 9/19/2021 3:38 pm : link
ask Judge why Toney isn't returning kicks?
Can't give up after two games  
uconngiant : 9/19/2021 4:05 pm : link
He needs time but his maturity is lacking and needs to step back and hope a Shepard or someone who talk to him and take him under their wing
You do realize this kid missed all of  
Beer Man : 9/19/2021 4:07 pm : link
the preseason right. WR is one of hardest position to learn in the NFL, and he spent this his rookie preseason on the sidelines and on the training table. I imagine he has a lot of catching up to do, and needs more work getting in sync with DJ.
Dave..  
Giant John : 9/19/2021 4:33 pm : link
19 snaps? That many? Ok so what are the amazing stats for this number 1 pick? How manny receptions? How many TD’s? How many yards has he contributed? We need production from a first round pick and we need it now.
um  
mpinmaine : 9/19/2021 4:53 pm : link
patience?
RE: I'm not quite ready to give up hope yet  
Adirondack GMen : 9/19/2021 5:19 pm : link
In comment 15376012 DC Gmen Fan said:
Quote:
but it has been frustrating to see the Giants *seemingly* squander high 1st round picks over the past few years.

That said, the way things are going, we'll have plenty more chances at high round picks, but unfortunately I don't see them using them wisely either.

I have a gut feeling Tooney will not be here after year 2. May not be talent related- haven’t seen it yet. Theres just something about him that make me feel his heads not in this…..hope I’m wrong!

Hope I’m wrong
Giants were going to take  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/19/2021 5:43 pm : link
The LB but WFT stepped in. I don’t think JG understands how to use him.

I think at least hope they add some wrinkles with the long break . With a limited regular running game time to implement some new concepts and Toney can help.
Rondale Moore, who is a smaller version of Toney,  
Bill in UT : 9/19/2021 6:38 pm : link
and probably plays the same role in the offense, is having a nice day for the Cardinals. Also a rookie.
RE: um  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/19/2021 6:50 pm : link
In comment 15376515 mpinmaine said:
Quote:
patience?

What do you think the reason is that Toney isn't even being used on returns? Patience is fine, but there are some indications that he's in the doghouse.
RE: You do realize this kid missed all of  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/19/2021 6:51 pm : link
In comment 15376430 Beer Man said:
Quote:
the preseason right. WR is one of hardest position to learn in the NFL, and he spent this his rookie preseason on the sidelines and on the training table. I imagine he has a lot of catching up to do, and needs more work getting in sync with DJ.

Fair. He was a returner in college though, and he's got open field explosiveness. Yet we're not using him on returns.

You can all deny this as much as you'd like, but something's up with this kid.
On punt returns  
Jerry in_DC : 9/19/2021 6:55 pm : link
I've always thought that the 2 most important skills are 1) literally catching the ball and 2) knowing when to catch the ball vs. let it drop are the most important skills.

Peppers seems good at those things so I'm fine with him doing it. Punt returns have a lot of downside and infrequent upside
RE: RE: You do realize this kid missed all of  
Adirondack GMen : 9/19/2021 6:56 pm : link
In comment 15376713 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15376430 Beer Man said:


Quote:


the preseason right. WR is one of hardest position to learn in the NFL, and he spent this his rookie preseason on the sidelines and on the training table. I imagine he has a lot of catching up to do, and needs more work getting in sync with DJ.


Fair. He was a returner in college though, and he's got open field explosiveness. Yet we're not using him on returns.

You can all deny this as much as you'd like, but something's up with this kid.

+1!
RE: Rondale Moore, who is a smaller version of Toney,  
prdave73 : 9/19/2021 7:08 pm : link
In comment 15376685 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
and probably plays the same role in the offense, is having a nice day for the Cardinals. Also a rookie.


Even Elijah Moore is getting playing time and he missed some time during preseason??
RE: RE: Not rocket science to remember a few routes  
Josh in the City : 9/19/2021 9:38 pm : link
In comment 15376359 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15376020 Giants73 said:


Quote:


This is probably more of Judge trying to prove points. Unless this guy is a Rubin Randel , he should be able to remember a few routes and they should have him out there



It doesn't work like that. There are pre- and post-snap reads and alterations based on coverage.

I’m sorry but no. Football isn’t rocket science. You’re telling me that he can’t understand option routes based on what the defense is showing him for a handful of plays? I don’t buy that for a second.
Josh  
ryanmkeane : 9/20/2021 8:21 am : link
Toney essentially missed the entire offseason program, including preseason games. We've played 2 regular season games. Are you going to call his career as well like you've done with some other players?

WR is a hard position to learn especially if you haven't had a lot of route experience.

Stop being a fucking know it all about every single thing and give the kid a few minutes in the NFL before you come crashing down on him. Hey - he's not Matt Patricia - everyone can't be great right away.
He will get significant playing time when this team reached 9 losses  
MartyNJ1969 : 9/20/2021 9:55 am : link
when the team is 1-9. Then we will know what we got. Judge isn't going to risk playing a player without camp while giants are still in playoff contention.
You should buy it  
JonC : 9/20/2021 9:57 am : link
because if a player isn't seeing the field, regardless of draft position, it often means they're not demonstrating grasp and understanding to not be a risk on the field.
No one knows what goes on in practice or the film room either  
weeg in the bronx : 9/20/2021 11:45 am : link
there are lots of reason guys don't get playing time.
RE: No one knows what goes on in practice or the film room either  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/20/2021 5:30 pm : link
In comment 15377535 weeg in the bronx said:
Quote:
there are lots of reason guys don't get playing time.

When a guy who is drafted at least partially for his return skills doesn't get trusted with "catch ball, do something positive" responsibilities, it's a pretty strong indication that the coaching staff has absolutely no trust in that player. And that's not an indictment, but it is an indication.

I don't know why there are some still here defending this; KT is very likely in Judge's doghouse for SOMETHING. We may never find out for what. But there's something up.
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