That our vaunted Secondary would allow opposing QBs to complete a whopping 76% of their passes after two games, and that James Bradberry would play like a street free agent?
No doubt, the Giants non-existent pass rush hasn't helped matters any, but whatever.
Has 2021 come down to the third game of the season against Atlanta? Seems ridiculous, but maybe not so crazy when you're the New York Football Giants. At 0-3 there won't be much to play for anymore. Just individual jobs and individual pride and dignity.
That's it.
35-24 sounds real good to me! I'll take it.
i'm wrong alot, but not usually this wrong. They have been god awful and i don't know what Joe Judge can do. It is very hard to even watch
Boring and predictable, my sense of it is when they have the villains in third and long....the villains have the advantage.
There's got to be something on film... the Bronco's and WFT did what teams didn't do last year. They are throwing the ball at Bradberry (successfully) instead of avoiding him.
On to a note about pass defense; we cannot generate a pass rush even when we bring pressure it seems. I noticed Ojulari with his hand in the dirt playing tackle on a couple of downs. Lorenzo Carter is JAG at best and I don't want to disparage him too much because he seems to be the best we have. But honestly they have to open it up and let competition push these rushers to be better. I think Ojulari is at least as good as Carter, I think Ximines needs to ride the pine and get Cam Brown in there. I'm extremely dissappointed in Leonard Williams and Dexter Lawrences play so far. No pressure and not able to stop the run when they have to. Graham's creativity from mid season on was what sparked our defense last year, IIRC. He needs to get more creative.
On to a note about pass defense; we cannot generate a pass rush even when we bring pressure it seems. I noticed Ojulari with his hand in the dirt playing tackle on a couple of downs. Lorenzo Carter is JAG at best and I don't want to disparage him too much because he seems to be the best we have. But honestly they have to open it up and let competition push these rushers to be better. I think Ojulari is at least as good as Carter, I think Ximines needs to ride the pine and get Cam Brown in there. I'm extremely dissappointed in Leonard Williams and Dexter Lawrences play so far. No pressure and not able to stop the run when they have to. Graham's creativity from mid season on was what sparked our defense last year, IIRC. He needs to get more creative.
Colin over at GBN Draft Report believes that -- in passing situations -- the Giants should put their best 5 cover guys man-to-man and rush everyone else.
i'm wrong alot, but not usually this wrong. They have been god awful and i don't know what Joe Judge can do. It is very hard to even watch
Boring and predictable, my sense of it is when they have the villains in third and long....the villains have the advantage.
I think people were forgetting that the biggest strength of the defense last year was that they bent but didn't break. Their redzone TD allowed % was 2nd best in the entire league, but they allowed opponents into the redzone 59 times, which ranked 24th in the league.
Here are some other defensive rankings for 2020:
OPP drive time average: 29th
OPP plays per drive: 31st
Completions: 26th
First downs passing: 25th
3rd down conversions: 24th
Sack %: 21st
This was, and is, a "bend but don't break" defense, and without a pass rush, you really can't expect anything else.
After playing such soft coverage against Denver, it ultimately falls on Joe Judge's shoulders that he allowed Patrick Graham to play the same damn soft coverage against Washington.
If the Head Coach allows the same nonsense for a third game, he shouldn't be our coach for the 4th game.
End of story.
a) they need to clean up the mistakes and easy giveaways (like the goaline TD before half vs. WAS)
b) they need to find what kind of coverage works best
c) they need to get more aggressive attacking the QB/OL
their adjustments last year create some sense of confidence they will get it figured out. The run D has been mostly good. They haven't given up many big plays.
McLaurin beat him up a bit in this one, but he did have the interception which should have beeen what set up the game winner.
Bradberry is one of the best.
What is the status of Robinson - our third-round draft pick?
I know he had core surgery but that was about 6-8 weeks ago and the projection was he would be out about 6-8 weeks.
So is Robison working out? I know he has to sit out s few more weeks but it would be nice to know if he will be playing this year.
Anyone know what Robinson's present status is?
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Martinez and Peppers have been pretty ordinary this year. Certainly as compared to last year when they were all playing great. Martinez missed tackles this year that he never missed last year, Peppers seems to play half the game, Bradberry was untouchable last year and was rarely thrown at and Williams does not get his name called the whole game. Not sure if it is just a new scheme or they all just lost a step. Whatever it is they better get it together fast or this will be the longest season of a history of long seasons.
Williams, Martinez and Peppers all had career years last season. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that all 3 will be coming back down to something closer to their career norms. Doesn't mean they aren't any good, just not quite what they were last season.
Not so sure why I wouldn't expect these players to perform at least as well as they did last year? Peppers for one is in a contract year and usually they excel in those years. Williams signed a huge contract and Martinez has always been a tackling machine. And lets not forget Bradbury. Dont you think he was one of the best CB's in the league last year? Why would he take a step back? Dont make sense what you are saying. Unless the scheme changed and they are just getting used to it. And maybe it gets better from there.
The problem is Bradberry looks terrible this year. It would be no different if we signed a big-time Edge and he sucked. McLauren is a also a damn stud. Easy top 10 WR that gets no shine because of his QB play.
- we may have gotten career years from Williams and Bradbury
- we don't really have a pass rush
- the strength of last years D is weaker with the losses of DT and Hill
- our O sucked last year so we were never in shootouts and our opponents never had to go all out to score
- we had a good red zone D which often regressed to the mean
- the talent level just isn't that high.
There's just no reason to think that our D would be any better than average. Probably worse. They should be a little better than they have so far, but these games are within the reasonable range of outcomes
- we may have gotten career years from Williams and Bradbury
- we don't really have a pass rush
- the strength of last years D is weaker with the losses of DT and Hill
- our O sucked last year so we were never in shootouts and our opponents never had to go all out to score
- we had a good red zone D which often regressed to the mean
- the talent level just isn't that high.
There's just no reason to think that our D would be any better than average. Probably worse. They should be a little better than they have so far, but these games are within the reasonable range of outcomes
I thought the D would be a little worse than last year. I thought the addition of Jackson would mitigate some of the stuff you mentioned.
I think this defense got really overrated. I think the 16 D was much better.
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In comment 15377525 lecky said:
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Martinez and Peppers have been pretty ordinary this year. Certainly as compared to last year when they were all playing great. Martinez missed tackles this year that he never missed last year, Peppers seems to play half the game, Bradberry was untouchable last year and was rarely thrown at and Williams does not get his name called the whole game. Not sure if it is just a new scheme or they all just lost a step. Whatever it is they better get it together fast or this will be the longest season of a history of long seasons.
Williams, Martinez and Peppers all had career years last season. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that all 3 will be coming back down to something closer to their career norms. Doesn't mean they aren't any good, just not quite what they were last season.
Not so sure why I wouldn't expect these players to perform at least as well as they did last year? Williams signed a huge contract
Well let's stop right there. Look at last season for williams, and look at every other season in his career.
If you're expecting him to be that guy every year, why? Last year was the obvious nail sticking up. Like you said, contract year? There are as many stories of guys having shockingly awesome years, then falling back to earth as there are guys who let 'contract year' get in their heads and totally flop.
If you're expecting him to be that guy every year, why? Last year was the obvious nail sticking up. Like you said, contract year? There are as many stories of guys having shockingly awesome years, then falling back to earth as there are guys who let 'contract year' get in their heads and totally flop.
Even if you leave the "contract year" thing aside, it's still a little silly to just assume that everyone you bring back will play as well or better than the previous year. That's just not how it works and never has been.
agreed
Football Outsiders had the Giants defense rated 19th last year. I wouldn't hang my hat on that side of the ball being all that solid.
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In comment 15377623 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 15377525 lecky said:
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Martinez and Peppers have been pretty ordinary this year. Certainly as compared to last year when they were all playing great. Martinez missed tackles this year that he never missed last year, Peppers seems to play half the game, Bradberry was untouchable last year and was rarely thrown at and Williams does not get his name called the whole game. Not sure if it is just a new scheme or they all just lost a step. Whatever it is they better get it together fast or this will be the longest season of a history of long seasons.
Williams, Martinez and Peppers all had career years last season. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that all 3 will be coming back down to something closer to their career norms. Doesn't mean they aren't any good, just not quite what they were last season.
Not so sure why I wouldn't expect these players to perform at least as well as they did last year? Williams signed a huge contract
Well let's stop right there. Look at last season for williams, and look at every other season in his career.
If you're expecting him to be that guy every year, why? Last year was the obvious nail sticking up. Like you said, contract year? There are as many stories of guys having shockingly awesome years, then falling back to earth as there are guys who let 'contract year' get in their heads and totally flop.
7-8 sacks for Williams would be damn good; that's about where Leonard Marshall averaged during his years with the Giants.
That was probably the easiest TD catch he ever had!!
There were times when the DB’s were going into a backpedal before the ball was even snapped.
When you give those cushions I don’t care how old your pass rush is!! Easy pitch and catch for 2 weeks now.
If this doesn’t change Matt Ryan will shred them !!
To quote Mad-Eye Moody, "Play to your strengths".
If you'd have told me the Giants would have a terrible pass D I'd've never believed it. But they do.
And a terrible defense overall, so far. Incredible. The 2017 D let me down in a similar fashion. (Sh)It happens.
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When you build around corners and safeties instead of the front.
The problem is Bradberry looks terrible this year. It would be no different if we signed a big-time Edge and he sucked. McLauren is a also a damn stud. Easy top 10 WR that gets no shine because of his QB play.
It would be different. Pressure makes up for deficiencies in the secondary and leads to more big plays.
Big needs up front and edge.
Big needs up front and edge.
As far as up front (defensive tackles), what should the Giants be aiming for in the draft, a 3-tech or a nose tackle?
As far as playing soft zone, why? It didn't work last week or two, why use it?
Also, if the Giants get an edge in the early rounds of 2022 (1-2), is it a sign that they don't trust Ojulari? The analysis on one mock draft seemed to think so.
Giants select Drake Jackson, Jaxson Kirkland in latest Draft Wire mock - ( New Window )
- we may have gotten career years from Williams and Bradbury
- we don't really have a pass rush
- the strength of last years D is weaker with the losses of DT and Hill
- our O sucked last year so we were never in shootouts and our opponents never had to go all out to score
- we had a good red zone D which often regressed to the mean
- the talent level just isn't that high.
There's just no reason to think that our D would be any better than average. Probably worse. They should be a little better than they have so far, but these games are within the reasonable range of outcomes
Can't disagree with this at all sadly. Maddening as hell, but they definitely should be better than they have been the 1st 2 games.
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There's no pass rush, weak edge play, and Graham's calling a lot of huge, passive, soft cushions in zone. Any NFL QB with this much time will carve up this defense.
Big needs up front and edge.
As far as up front (defensive tackles), what should the Giants be aiming for in the draft, a 3-tech or a nose tackle?
As far as playing soft zone, why? It didn't work last week or two, why use it?
Also, if the Giants get an edge in the early rounds of 2022 (1-2), is it a sign that they don't trust Ojulari? The analysis on one mock draft seemed to think so. Giants select Drake Jackson, Jaxson Kirkland in latest Draft Wire mock - ( New Window )
Imo, they could use a NT and kick Dexter to DE. They might prefer the opposite, time will tell.
Soft zones are a typical response to zero pass rush generated. Why such big cushions in the question, especially with two proven CBs on the boundaries. It looks like JB and AJ are struggling with their confidence as well as their technique. Holmes has a tendency to not play smart and be too aggressive, but looked better versus WFT. Graham needs to figure it out.
Ojulari might be one edge for the future, but they'll stick need another for the other side. An impact difference maker up front is something this unit sorely lacks (sorry LW). Ojulari is not the type of Edge I'd be building around, I question their checklist for Edge prospects. Adding a Thibadeaux (sp?) elevates an entire defense.
We play defense like this and we are only going to find success against downfield passing attacks, against teams that struggle with the dropsies, or teams hellbent on establishing the run. That’s not most the NFL. In fact Ryan is a less mobile better version of Heinecke and Teddy at this point.
Based on how the offense looks, we need to start getting more aggressive on defense . No sense in having DJ and the passing weapons sitting on the bench ten minutes at a time. We don’t have the OL for that.
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In comment 15378481 JonC said:
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There's no pass rush, weak edge play, and Graham's calling a lot of huge, passive, soft cushions in zone. Any NFL QB with this much time will carve up this defense.
Big needs up front and edge.
As far as up front (defensive tackles), what should the Giants be aiming for in the draft, a 3-tech or a nose tackle?
As far as playing soft zone, why? It didn't work last week or two, why use it?
Also, if the Giants get an edge in the early rounds of 2022 (1-2), is it a sign that they don't trust Ojulari? The analysis on one mock draft seemed to think so. Giants select Drake Jackson, Jaxson Kirkland in latest Draft Wire mock - ( New Window )
Imo, they could use a NT and kick Dexter to DE. They might prefer the opposite, time will tell.
Soft zones are a typical response to zero pass rush generated. Why such big cushions in the question, especially with two proven CBs on the boundaries. It looks like JB and AJ are struggling with their confidence as well as their technique. Holmes has a tendency to not play smart and be too aggressive, but looked better versus WFT. Graham needs to figure it out.
Ojulari might be one edge for the future, but they'll stick need another for the other side. An impact difference maker up front is something this unit sorely lacks (sorry LW). Ojulari is not the type of Edge I'd be building around, I question their checklist for Edge prospects. Adding a Thibadeaux (sp?) elevates an entire defense.
I thought the Giants have already done that since Dexter Lawrence is right now the starting left end in the Giants' 3-4.
As far as their checklist for Edge prospects, it isn't hard to play contain with the quarterback. That's a scheme thing.
If the Giants do poorly this year, I'd go for Thibodeaux. If we do better or the Bears place middle of the first round, I'll go with George Karlaftis.
I don't even care about beating the Falcons, it really will prove nothing to me unless it's a really decisive win (their coaching and talent is not good) I want to see better coaching against the Saints, even if it's a loss (first game in Superdome back has potential to be a bloodbath), or might as well just clean house at the end of the year.
We play defense like this and we are only going to find success against downfield passing attacks, against teams that struggle with the dropsies, or teams hellbent on establishing the run. That’s not most the NFL. In fact Ryan is a less mobile better version of Heinecke and Teddy at this point.
Based on how the offense looks, we need to start getting more aggressive on defense . No sense in having DJ and the passing weapons sitting on the bench ten minutes at a time. We don’t have the OL for that.
We should have Bradberry and Jackson in the receivers' faces off the line of scrimmage to jam them. Unless Graham doesn't think they have the recovering speed.
We play defense like this and we are only going to find success against downfield passing attacks, against teams that struggle with the dropsies, or teams hellbent on establishing the run. That’s not most the NFL. In fact Ryan is a less mobile better version of Heinecke and Teddy at this point.
In essence... ourselves?