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Daniel Jones 2nd best passer through week 2 per PFF

shadow_spinner0 : 9/20/2021 2:55 pm
Daniel Jones owns the 2nd highest passing grade through week two (85.4) behind Tom Brady.
Link - ( New Window )
If there's  
Pork Chop : 9/20/2021 3:04 pm : link
any silver lining to the season so far it's Jones' performance. If we can get to the 2022 draft without needing to rebuild with a new QB, it would be great.
Of all the things wrong with this team  
AnnapolisMike : 9/20/2021 3:05 pm : link
Jones is probably not in the top 5 at this point and time.
...  
ryanmkeane : 9/20/2021 3:10 pm : link
false, Jones sucks and won't ever be a good quarterback, he'll never build on these two weeks
Hard to believe the concern  
HewlettGiant : 9/20/2021 3:10 pm : link
The defense has caused the first 2 weeks
This should go well  
Strahan91 : 9/20/2021 3:10 pm : link
.
If this doesn’t make you question…  
bw in dc : 9/20/2021 3:11 pm : link
PFF, nothing will.

Was he better than Bridgewater game one? No.

Heinicki game two? I don’t know there either…
PFF: Jones has been great!  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/20/2021 3:13 pm : link
Also PFF: Thomas had a lousy game Thursday.

Let's see what people do with this.
RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
Rory : 9/20/2021 3:13 pm : link
In comment 15377776 bw in dc said:
Quote:
PFF, nothing will.

Was he better than Bridgewater game one? No.

Heinicki game two? I don’t know there either…


If you watched the game Jones individual performance was fantastic, the supporting cast was the issue.

Jones is the guy, he has "it". Fans just need to accept this and be patient.
all this is on Dalvin Tomlinson  
I Love Clams Casino : 9/20/2021 3:14 pm : link
no longer being here....they lost a great compliment player


DJ is awesome
RE: RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
SirLoinOfBeef : 9/20/2021 3:15 pm : link
In comment 15377779 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 15377776 bw in dc said:


Quote:


PFF, nothing will.

Was he better than Bridgewater game one? No.

Heinicki game two? I don’t know there either…



If you watched the game Jones individual performance was fantastic, the supporting cast was the issue.

Jones is the guy, he has "it". Fans just need to accept this and be patient.


Is that you DG?...
 
christian : 9/20/2021 3:22 pm : link
Daniel Jones has played significantly better this year than he did to close the year last year.

He’s been a pleasant surprise, and I hope he builds on it.

That said, is anyone on here willing to defend he’s been the second best passer in the NFL?

Put aside the sarcasm for a moment, anyone want to actually debate that?
NO idea what Jones really is or will be  
LG in NYC : 9/20/2021 3:26 pm : link
but I believe he is absolutely good enough to compete with if he is given a game plan each week that plays to his strengths (running, move the pocket, deep throws) and has a competent O Line in front of him.

as others note, our biggest issues right now are not related to the QB position... which is less about DJ and more of an indictment of the rest of the team.
I dont think  
Everyone Relax : 9/20/2021 3:27 pm : link
anyone actually believes DJ has been the 2nd best QB in the league so far, but he's playing well, and certainly well enough to be 1-1.
Really more a symptom of the entire team's struggles for years  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/20/2021 3:29 pm : link
When one piece plays well, the others don't. There has never been a time where the offense played well and defense was lights out. I can't remember a recent time where the defense played badly and the offense carried the team to a win.
RE: This should go well  
UConn4523 : 9/20/2021 3:31 pm : link
In comment 15377774 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
.


Haha, just fired up some popcorn and cracked a beer.
I don't trust PFF grades at all, Brady did not play all that well  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/20/2021 3:32 pm : link
honestly yesterday. Missed reads and certainly some misfires. His team crushed ass though and he's the architect, but not sure how PFF comes up with that based on their grading system.

The Falcons defense is really bad, we should hopefully put up about 30 again as long as the defense doesn't give up 12 minute drives.
I watched the entire Raiders-Ravens...  
bw in dc : 9/20/2021 3:33 pm : link
game last MNF. And I caught a good portion of the Raiders/Steelers game yesterday.

Derek Carr has been absolutely tremendous. Yesterday, they were riddled with major injuries on the OL and at RB yesterday. Yet, Carr delivered a huge performance against a team who won in Buffalo the prior week. And that's after beating the Ravens last week, who beat the Chiefs this week.

If anyone has watched Carr as much as me, do you believe Jones has been > Carr so far??
RE: RE: This should go well  
Go Terps : 9/20/2021 3:35 pm : link
In comment 15377811 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15377774 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


.



Haha, just fired up some popcorn and cracked a beer.


Did you actually?

Anyone that's watched Carr play knows this is a ridiculous ranking.
RE: RE: RE: This should go well  
UConn4523 : 9/20/2021 3:36 pm : link
In comment 15377817 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15377811 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 15377774 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


.



Haha, just fired up some popcorn and cracked a beer.



Did you actually?

Anyone that's watched Carr play knows this is a ridiculous ranking.


Yes.
RE: I watched the entire Raiders-Ravens...  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/20/2021 3:36 pm : link
In comment 15377815 bw in dc said:
Quote:
game last MNF. And I caught a good portion of the Raiders/Steelers game yesterday.

Derek Carr has been absolutely tremendous. Yesterday, they were riddled with major injuries on the OL and at RB yesterday. Yet, Carr delivered a huge performance against a team who won in Buffalo the prior week. And that's after beating the Ravens last week, who beat the Chiefs this week.

If anyone has watched Carr as much as me, do you believe Jones has been > Carr so far??


Carr is criminally underrated though. I don't understand the hate he gets. Ravens secondary is in trouble though right now and the Steelers lost Watt in the first half. That's a big hit. DJ wasn't good in week 1, but he wasn't bad either. Garrett completely hamstrung the offense with his play selection. I'm hoping to see more of what we saw Thursday moving forward. If we don't put up more than 17 points against that Dallas defense and Lawrence is still out, I'll support cleaning house.
Great, keep doing it  
rsjem1979 : 9/20/2021 3:37 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: This should go well  
90.Cal : 9/20/2021 3:38 pm : link
In comment 15377817 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15377811 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 15377774 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


.



Haha, just fired up some popcorn and cracked a beer.



Did you actually?

Anyone that's watched Carr play knows this is a ridiculous ranking.


But doesn't he have like 4 fumbles and 1 interception though?
Nevermind it's 3 fumbles but none lost  
90.Cal : 9/20/2021 3:40 pm : link
.
Jones has looked better aside from bad fumble in week 1 and  
chick310 : 9/20/2021 3:42 pm : link
and a few misthrows over the middle last week.

Just didn't realize 63% completion rate, and 250 yards and 1 TD per game gets you a #2 overall ranking among QBs.

Should Giants wait or extend him now before he overtakes Brady and maybe save some money?
How did this  
Everyone Relax : 9/20/2021 3:42 pm : link
turn into a David Carr fanboy conversation? It's really a tough week for some on here when Jones plays well.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 9/20/2021 3:43 pm : link
Jones sucked week one, was excellent week two. This team can compete if he plays like he did Thursday night.
No way  
ghost718 : 9/20/2021 3:44 pm : link


Did we also land on the moon?
RE: How did this  
bw in dc : 9/20/2021 3:44 pm : link
In comment 15377835 Everyone Relax said:
Quote:
turn into a David Carr fanboy conversation? It's really a tough week for some on here when Jones plays well.


I am challenging how Jones can possibly be ranked ahead of Carr thus far. I just don't see the same or better performance.
Carr is just one example  
Go Terps : 9/20/2021 3:46 pm : link
Anyone with Sunday Ticket can tell you there are many quarterbacks playing better football than Jones through two weeks. Shit, Jones was the second best quarterback in the field in both of his games. He played well in Washington, but Heinicke made the plays to win at the end.

But the bar for many here on Moral Victory Interactive is very, very low.
RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
BigBlueJ : 9/20/2021 3:46 pm : link
In comment 15377776 bw in dc said:
Quote:
PFF, nothing will.

Was he better than Bridgewater game one? No.

Heinicki game two? I don’t know there either…


This is Stupid and in the same breath you call our defense trash, which both of these QB's played against. And the Defense DJ played against are both high quality.
The only comparison that matters  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/20/2021 3:47 pm : link
is Jones 2021 versus 2020. He looks better and against WFT I thought it was very good effort. Now he has to build on that and use the WFT as a floor.

If they let him try to win the game the last drive and succeeded there would be quite a bit of positive press as turning the corner imo.
RE: RE: I watched the entire Raiders-Ravens...  
bw in dc : 9/20/2021 3:47 pm : link
In comment 15377822 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:

Carr is criminally underrated though. I don't understand the hate he gets. Ravens secondary is in trouble though right now and the Steelers lost Watt in the first half. That's a big hit. DJ wasn't good in week 1, but he wasn't bad either. Garrett completely hamstrung the offense with his play selection. I'm hoping to see more of what we saw Thursday moving forward. If we don't put up more than 17 points against that Dallas defense and Lawrence is still out, I'll support cleaning house.


I think the Carr image has been tarnished by the media's narrative that Gruden - apparently - isn't enamored with him. And yet Gruden keeps praising Carr effusively.

I've written a few times that Jones has played pretty well so far. He's certainly not the reason we are 0-2 right now.
RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
djm : 9/20/2021 3:48 pm : link
In comment 15377776 bw in dc said:
Quote:
PFF, nothing will.

Was he better than Bridgewater game one? No.

Heinicki game two? I don’t know there either…


You err on the side of NYG bashing always and forever. Just admit it and we can move on.
forget the #2 ranking  
LG in NYC : 9/20/2021 3:48 pm : link
anyone with a brain knows that is silly...

but it should at least allow for an honest assessment as to how much of our 0-2 start is b/c of the QB vs other aspects of the team.
PFF values eye test more than stats  
shadow_spinner0 : 9/20/2021 3:49 pm : link
meaning people throwing out numbers won't matter when arguing PFF's ratings. You can have 5 turnovers yet PFF could determine they weren't your fault. Could be a ball bouncing off a receivers hands, a rusher going unblocked leading to a strip sack, an interception after a hail Mary attempt at the end of a half (what Brady did in game 1 which is why PFF didn't count that against him). PFF grades isn't QBR and Passer rating. Also PFF may be less impressed with a 35 yard completion when a receiver is wide open than a 15 yard completion when the QB is pressured and receiver is not that open. Stats may say "he completed these many passes", PFF says "some of these throws were turnover worthy and QB got lucky". It's up to you to make whatever opinion of PFF, I'm just explaining how they grade.
RE: RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
Go Terps : 9/20/2021 3:50 pm : link
In comment 15377854 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15377776 bw in dc said:


Quote:


PFF, nothing will.

Was he better than Bridgewater game one? No.

Heinicki game two? I don’t know there either…



You err on the side of NYG bashing always and forever. Just admit it and we can move on.


They deserve to be bashed.
RE: Carr is just one example  
Chris684 : 9/20/2021 3:55 pm : link
In comment 15377848 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Anyone with Sunday Ticket can tell you there are many quarterbacks playing better football than Jones through two weeks. Shit, Jones was the second best quarterback in the field in both of his games. He played well in Washington, but Heinicke made the plays to win at the end.

But the bar for many here on Moral Victory Interactive is very, very low.


Heinicke threw a pick that should've cost his team the game? LOL
RE: Carr is just one example  
Everyone Relax : 9/20/2021 3:55 pm : link
In comment 15377848 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Anyone with Sunday Ticket can tell you there are many quarterbacks playing better football than Jones through two weeks. Shit, Jones was the second best quarterback in the field in both of his games. He played well in Washington, but Heinicke made the plays to win at the end.

But the bar for many here on Moral Victory Interactive is very, very low.

I'd rather be a fan of the team I root for on Moral Victory Interactive than a masochist on "I Pepper Spray My Eyeballs Every Time Jones Makes a Good Play Interactive"
PFF is a data point  
Jerry in_DC : 9/20/2021 3:56 pm : link
People like to argue with it and you certainly can. They have a methodology and its interesting to see their ratings.

Nobody here is watching every player on every play of every game, so they're offering something we don't have.

I still think Jones is terrible, but he did play well on Thursday. Let's turn the O over to him and let him work. 40+ combined passes any runs per game. Give him a chance to sink or swim.

Unlike the last 5 years of Giants football, at least that would be interesting
Comparing to Jones to the opposing quarterbacks  
BSIMatt : 9/20/2021 3:56 pm : link
he has played against is irrelevant.

You should be judging Jones vs prior versions of Jones and looking for signs of growth from him(and the Giant's offense as a whole).

Considering the Giants "pass rush" the first two weeks I'd only expect the opposing quarterbacks to play well...receivers are getting open and the opposing quarterback has generally been able to stand back and calmly survey the field.
RE: Carr is just one example  
AnnapolisMike : 9/20/2021 3:58 pm : link
In comment 15377848 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Anyone with Sunday Ticket can tell you there are many quarterbacks playing better football than Jones through two weeks. Shit, Jones was the second best quarterback in the field in both of his games. He played well in Washington, but Heinicke made the plays to win at the end.

But the bar for many here on Moral Victory Interactive is very, very low.


I think you are usually very spot on. But I think you underrate Jones. I think he is a middle of the pack QB that can hurt the opposition with his feet. He has more yardage running than half the RB's in the league so far. Teams have to account for him. Of all the number one picks the Giants have had in recent years...he might actually suck less than most of them.
Daniel Jones runs really well  
Producer : 9/20/2021 3:58 pm : link
He is still not a great passer. Even Thursday night he was inaccurate much of the time.
RE: RE: Carr is just one example  
Go Terps : 9/20/2021 3:58 pm : link
In comment 15377864 Chris684 said:
Quote:
In comment 15377848 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Anyone with Sunday Ticket can tell you there are many quarterbacks playing better football than Jones through two weeks. Shit, Jones was the second best quarterback in the field in both of his games. He played well in Washington, but Heinicke made the plays to win at the end.

But the bar for many here on Moral Victory Interactive is very, very low.



Heinicke threw a pick that should've cost his team the game? LOL


And it didn't because Jones's offense couldn't take advantage.

0-2
RE: RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
bw in dc : 9/20/2021 3:58 pm : link
In comment 15377854 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15377776 bw in dc said:


Quote:


PFF, nothing will.

Was he better than Bridgewater game one? No.

Heinicki game two? I don’t know there either…



You err on the side of NYG bashing always and forever. Just admit it and we can move on.


I don't bash. I analyze and try to use some objective standards. It shouldn't be held against me that other poster - maybe you, maybe not - don't watch other teams and their players play.
He is ranked 9th in QBR, which isn't bad but its two games.  
mikeinbloomfield : 9/20/2021 3:58 pm : link
Will he stay 9th? Probably not, just like Tyrod Taylor probably won't stay 1st.

He's put together two nice games. I am sure he's done that in the past. Will he continue to do it is the question.
RE: I don't trust PFF grades at all, Brady did not play all that well  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2021 3:59 pm : link
In comment 15377814 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
honestly yesterday. Missed reads and certainly some misfires. His team crushed ass though and he's the architect, but not sure how PFF comes up with that based on their grading system.

The Falcons defense is really bad, we should hopefully put up about 30 again as long as the defense doesn't give up 12 minute drives.


He completed 67% of his passes and threw for 5 touchdowns lol. You claim Jones played well Week 1 but Brady did not play all that well?
Jones still fails to throw  
Producer : 9/20/2021 4:02 pm : link
with proper anticipation and timing.

He is a see it / throw it QB.

This is why Golladay was yelling on the sideline. Jones is holding the ball too long.
RE: RE: RE: Carr is just one example  
Chris684 : 9/20/2021 4:03 pm : link
In comment 15377876 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15377864 Chris684 said:


Quote:


In comment 15377848 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Anyone with Sunday Ticket can tell you there are many quarterbacks playing better football than Jones through two weeks. Shit, Jones was the second best quarterback in the field in both of his games. He played well in Washington, but Heinicke made the plays to win at the end.

But the bar for many here on Moral Victory Interactive is very, very low.



Heinicke threw a pick that should've cost his team the game? LOL



And it didn't because Jones's offense couldn't take advantage.

0-2


Haha ok, cool!
RE: He is ranked 9th in QBR, which isn't bad but its two games.  
bw in dc : 9/20/2021 4:03 pm : link
In comment 15377878 mikeinbloomfield said:
Quote:
Will he stay 9th? Probably not, just like Tyrod Taylor probably won't stay 1st.

He's put together two nice games. I am sure he's done that in the past. Will he continue to do it is the question.


And Taylor didn't play the second half of the Cleveland game yesterday.
And to be clear,  
Go Terps : 9/20/2021 4:04 pm : link
Jones was terrible against Denver. Terrible.
These threads  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2021 4:04 pm : link
Should age well once the sample size gets bigger.
sigh  
djm : 9/20/2021 4:05 pm : link
terrible? Have you seen terrible? Cmon. He was uninspiring and had a bad fumble, but i've seen terrible, that wasn't it.

RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
joeinpa : 9/20/2021 4:05 pm : link
In comment 15377776 bw in dc said:
Quote:
PFF, nothing will.

Was he better than Bridgewater game one? No.

Heinicki game two? I don’t know there either…


There it is! You guys should know the rules by now. PFF is trash, unless of course Daniel is near the bottom of their ratings.
everyone has to exaggerate just to make a fucking point  
djm : 9/20/2021 4:05 pm : link
I hate the fucking internet.
RE: everyone has to exaggerate just to make a fucking point  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2021 4:07 pm : link
In comment 15377897 djm said:
Quote:
I hate the fucking internet.


I’m still stunned at the Brady didn’t play well yesterday comment.
RE: And to be clear,  
Everyone Relax : 9/20/2021 4:09 pm : link
In comment 15377891 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Jones was terrible against Denver. Terrible.

Hahahaha
Wilson (Jets) yesterday  
djm : 9/20/2021 4:09 pm : link
terrible. ELi in 04 against the Ravens was terrible. Simms against Philly 1989 was terrible. Jones wasn't good week 1, needed to play better and he did. Let's see him do it again.
RE: everyone has to exaggerate just to make a fucking point  
bw in dc : 9/20/2021 4:11 pm : link
In comment 15377897 djm said:
Quote:
I hate the fucking internet.


I agree that PFF exaggerated.
RE: everyone has to exaggerate just to make a fucking point  
Go Terps : 9/20/2021 4:11 pm : link
In comment 15377897 djm said:
Quote:
I hate the fucking internet.


Who's exaggerating?

Jones led the offense to 7 points while the game was in doubt. He was awful passing in the red zone, and he made a crucial error with the fumble.

Yeah, terrible.
RE: Jones still fails to throw  
Now Mike in MD : 9/20/2021 4:11 pm : link
In comment 15377886 Producer said:
Quote:
with proper anticipation and timing.

He is a see it / throw it QB.

This is why Golladay was yelling on the sideline. Jones is holding the ball too long.


This is a liad of crap. I saw at least 7 throws thursdsy where he was releasing before a guy was out if his break. Glad to kmow you were privy to the argument between golladay and jones.
RE: RE: I don't trust PFF grades at all, Brady did not play all that well  
chick310 : 9/20/2021 4:15 pm : link
In comment 15377880 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15377814 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


honestly yesterday. Missed reads and certainly some misfires. His team crushed ass though and he's the architect, but not sure how PFF comes up with that based on their grading system.

The Falcons defense is really bad, we should hopefully put up about 30 again as long as the defense doesn't give up 12 minute drives.



He completed 67% of his passes and threw for 5 touchdowns lol. You claim Jones played well Week 1 but Brady did not play all that well?


PFF indicating Jones is #2 ranked passer yet it is noted here that Tom Brady isn't really playing well.

Wild and wacky stuff on just this one thread.
RE: RE: Jones still fails to throw  
Everyone Relax : 9/20/2021 4:20 pm : link
In comment 15377908 Now Mike in MD said:
Quote:
In comment 15377886 Producer said:


Quote:


with proper anticipation and timing.

He is a see it / throw it QB.

This is why Golladay was yelling on the sideline. Jones is holding the ball too long.



This is a liad of crap. I saw at least 7 throws thursdsy where he was releasing before a guy was out if his break. Glad to kmow you were privy to the argument between golladay and jones.

It's been confirmed that Producer is the kicking net that Odell fought with then got engaged too. He/she is still bitter OBJ was traded which is why he hates the team he is stuck on the sidelines with. This also explains how he/she is privy to sideline convos.
Carr has been very good but like everything Jones there's selective  
Eric on Li : 9/20/2021 4:23 pm : link
visualization of reality. Take the play linked below from Carr as example #1 - if Jones threw an inaccurate ball like this in the RZ in OT that lead to an INT, it would be a week-long discussion the same way the fumble was vs. Denver.

Or there would be complaints about his 3 fumbles in 2 games (he's on pace for 25+ fumbles!!!!).

But alas, Carr is not Jones and was not drafted by Gettleman so the grass is as green as it gets (for now).

And for the record i'd consider just about any QB who has a 4:1 TD to turnover ratio (as both players do right now) is pretty good. Especially since both played 2 stronger defenses with unsettled lines in front of them (Jones has been sacked 5x, Carr 4x). Both have also had multiple TD's taken off the board.
NFL @NFL THE RAVENS PICK IT IN THE END ZONE. - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Carr is just one example  
BleedBlue : 9/20/2021 4:23 pm : link
In comment 15377864 Chris684 said:
Quote:
In comment 15377848 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Anyone with Sunday Ticket can tell you there are many quarterbacks playing better football than Jones through two weeks. Shit, Jones was the second best quarterback in the field in both of his games. He played well in Washington, but Heinicke made the plays to win at the end.

But the bar for many here on Moral Victory Interactive is very, very low.



Heinicke threw a pick that should've cost his team the game? LOL


yes, another dumb take by terps. heinicke literally cost his team the game with an AWFUL INT. the giants just coached like pussies at the end or game was over and taylor was the donkey. sorry but jones was better of the 2 and it was barely close.
Interesting  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2021 4:25 pm : link
Heinicke’s interception gets brought up but Jone’s fumble gets excused away by the same crowd that says he was good week 1.
RE: …  
Dr. D : 9/20/2021 4:25 pm : link
In comment 15377794 christian said:
Quote:
Daniel Jones has played significantly better this year than he did to close the year last year.

He’s been a pleasant surprise, and I hope he builds on it.

That said, is anyone on here willing to defend he’s been the second best passer in the NFL?

Put aside the sarcasm for a moment, anyone want to actually debate that?

He actually played well against Dallas the last game of '20 (the INT was totally EE's fault and it resulted in a 10 pt swing). He also played well a few games around the middle of the season before he got hurt.

I wouldn't count the games when he was severely hobbled. He prolly shouldn't have been playing a couple of those games.
Too  
Toth029 : 9/20/2021 4:26 pm : link
Many insecure people on here anymore.
RE: Interesting  
BleedBlue : 9/20/2021 4:26 pm : link
In comment 15377927 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Heinicke’s interception gets brought up but Jone’s fumble gets excused away by the same crowd that says he was good week 1.


never said he was good week 1. it was an awful fumble but when discussing thursday game, jones was the better QB. im not sure anyone who doesnt have an agenda would agree
RE: RE: I don't trust PFF grades at all, Brady did not play all that well  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/20/2021 4:27 pm : link
In comment 15377880 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15377814 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


honestly yesterday. Missed reads and certainly some misfires. His team crushed ass though and he's the architect, but not sure how PFF comes up with that based on their grading system.

The Falcons defense is really bad, we should hopefully put up about 30 again as long as the defense doesn't give up 12 minute drives.



He completed 67% of his passes and threw for 5 touchdowns lol. You claim Jones played well Week 1 but Brady did not play all that well?


Because not all situations are the same. The Bucs offense talent wise outside of QB is the best in football and the Falcons might be the worst defense in the league (still think that honor belongs to the Cowboys, but its up for debate, and I haven't seen the Jags yet). Brady was playing pitch and catch mostly out there with great protection. I mean even if we don't give the same protection next week, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Brady played decent, but he was missing some reads and definetly straight-up missed some throws pretty bad down the field and in the intermediate. Lots of guys throw 5 TDs last week. I live here, I watch more Bucs than anyone on this board I"m sure the last 10 years.

Speaking of which, when we do play them, if we try to "establish the run", it should be a fireable offense. It cost the Falcons an opportunity in that game, multiple huge swing plays and they decided to run out of tight formations. That front is unreal.
RE: RE: Jones still fails to throw  
Producer : 9/20/2021 4:28 pm : link
In comment 15377908 Now Mike in MD said:
Quote:
In comment 15377886 Producer said:


Quote:


with proper anticipation and timing.

He is a see it / throw it QB.

This is why Golladay was yelling on the sideline. Jones is holding the ball too long.



This is a liad of crap. I saw at least 7 throws thursdsy where he was releasing before a guy was out if his break. Glad to kmow you were privy to the argument between golladay and jones.


Right. Golladay was yelling because Jones' throws were perfect but Jones was hogging the mallomars. Try using the intelligence that God gave you. And try watching the tape. Jones is holding the ball too long on just about all of Golladay's targets.
RE: RE: …  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2021 4:29 pm : link
In comment 15377928 Dr. D said:
Quote:
In comment 15377794 christian said:


Quote:


Daniel Jones has played significantly better this year than he did to close the year last year.

He’s been a pleasant surprise, and I hope he builds on it.

That said, is anyone on here willing to defend he’s been the second best passer in the NFL?

Put aside the sarcasm for a moment, anyone want to actually debate that?


He actually played well against Dallas the last game of '20 (the INT was totally EE's fault and it resulted in a 10 pt swing). He also played well a few games around the middle of the season before he got hurt.

I wouldn't count the games when he was severely hobbled. He prolly shouldn't have been playing a couple of those games.


He had 220 yards and 2 turnovers. That’s well? Jesus the bar is in hell
RE: RE: RE: Jones still fails to throw  
BleedBlue : 9/20/2021 4:31 pm : link
In comment 15377936 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15377908 Now Mike in MD said:


Quote:


In comment 15377886 Producer said:


Quote:


with proper anticipation and timing.

He is a see it / throw it QB.

This is why Golladay was yelling on the sideline. Jones is holding the ball too long.



This is a liad of crap. I saw at least 7 throws thursdsy where he was releasing before a guy was out if his break. Glad to kmow you were privy to the argument between golladay and jones.



Right. Golladay was yelling because Jones' throws were perfect but Jones was hogging the mallomars. Try using the intelligence that God gave you. And try watching the tape. Jones is holding the ball too long on just about all of Golladay's targets.


or he was mad he wasnt being targeted enough....you do know garrett was close by to jones when golladay was yelling. His tirade could have been about a multitude of things targeted at more than 1 person. My guess is he was mad he wasnt getting targeted first every play AS HE SHOULD
Jones played  
section125 : 9/20/2021 4:31 pm : link
very well against WTF and not so well against Denver. Golladay dropped two or three and Slayton dropped two or three including the TD.

Jones is not the #2 passer in the NFL. Nor is he #20. He was inaccurate on about 6 passes(behind) Thursday. Nit Picky but true. But oddly enough, to the chagrin of 3 or 4 posters, when given just a bit of time he makes his reads and throws a nice ball. Funny how that happens.

Anyway, anybody that uses PFF for proof of anything beyond data and numbers is foolish.
RE: RE: RE: I don't trust PFF grades at all, Brady did not play all that well  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2021 4:32 pm : link
In comment 15377934 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15377880 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15377814 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


honestly yesterday. Missed reads and certainly some misfires. His team crushed ass though and he's the architect, but not sure how PFF comes up with that based on their grading system.

The Falcons defense is really bad, we should hopefully put up about 30 again as long as the defense doesn't give up 12 minute drives.



He completed 67% of his passes and threw for 5 touchdowns lol. You claim Jones played well Week 1 but Brady did not play all that well?



Because not all situations are the same. The Bucs offense talent wise outside of QB is the best in football and the Falcons might be the worst defense in the league (still think that honor belongs to the Cowboys, but its up for debate, and I haven't seen the Jags yet). Brady was playing pitch and catch mostly out there with great protection. I mean even if we don't give the same protection next week, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Brady played decent, but he was missing some reads and definetly straight-up missed some throws pretty bad down the field and in the intermediate. Lots of guys throw 5 TDs last week. I live here, I watch more Bucs than anyone on this board I"m sure the last 10 years.

Speaking of which, when we do play them, if we try to "establish the run", it should be a fireable offense. It cost the Falcons an opportunity in that game, multiple huge swing plays and they decided to run out of tight formations. That front is unreal.


This is moronic. So Jones is going to put up the same numbers against the Falcons defense right?

5 touchdowns and no picks. He put the ball into the end zone and won by 23 points. That’s not decent, if it is than what was Jones performance Thursday?
RE: RE: RE: …  
Toth029 : 9/20/2021 4:36 pm : link
In comment 15377939 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15377928 Dr. D said:


Quote:


In comment 15377794 christian said:


Quote:


Daniel Jones has played significantly better this year than he did to close the year last year.

He’s been a pleasant surprise, and I hope he builds on it.

That said, is anyone on here willing to defend he’s been the second best passer in the NFL?

Put aside the sarcasm for a moment, anyone want to actually debate that?


He actually played well against Dallas the last game of '20 (the INT was totally EE's fault and it resulted in a 10 pt swing). He also played well a few games around the middle of the season before he got hurt.

I wouldn't count the games when he was severely hobbled. He prolly shouldn't have been playing a couple of those games.



He had 220 yards and 2 turnovers. That’s well? Jesus the bar is in hell


The INT which bounced off Engram's hands and Gallman not able to handle a snap?

Are you joking?
RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
TLong : 9/20/2021 4:37 pm : link
In comment 15377776 bw in dc said:
Quote:
PFF, nothing will.

Was he better than Bridgewater game one? No.

Heinicki game two? I don’t know there either…


Do you think that football in a one player game, like tennis or golf?
These QBs play with 21 other guys, O and D and our OC and DC stunk the place out in both games.
If Jones was on the Bucs offense sure. I mean we should still put up  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/20/2021 4:41 pm : link
about 30 on them. Do not you realize the Bucs offense is infinitely more talented than ours? They have the most talented offense in the league and it's not really close. They were pretty damn good when Jameis was there, but then they added a rock solid RT, Fournette, and Gronk (who can still play, looks better than he did last year tbh) Or was it the Tom Bradys 45 the Matt Ryans 30 to you last week or whatever the final score was, turned it off in the 4th once the game was not in the balance.

Go look at some of the damn touchdown passes that the attempts on defense were laughable. Hopefully this is the week the Golladay Jones connection gets going. They ran a fade and the dude was like 3 yards off, I'm not even sure how tthat happens. Brady didn't even have to put low to the pylon or high and outside.
RE: RE: RE: RE: …  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2021 4:41 pm : link
In comment 15377950 Toth029 said:
Quote:
In comment 15377939 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15377928 Dr. D said:


Quote:


In comment 15377794 christian said:


Quote:


Daniel Jones has played significantly better this year than he did to close the year last year.

He’s been a pleasant surprise, and I hope he builds on it.

That said, is anyone on here willing to defend he’s been the second best passer in the NFL?

Put aside the sarcasm for a moment, anyone want to actually debate that?


He actually played well against Dallas the last game of '20 (the INT was totally EE's fault and it resulted in a 10 pt swing). He also played well a few games around the middle of the season before he got hurt.

I wouldn't count the games when he was severely hobbled. He prolly shouldn't have been playing a couple of those games.



He had 220 yards and 2 turnovers. That’s well? Jesus the bar is in hell



The INT which bounced off Engram's hands and Gallman not able to handle a snap?

Are you joking?


Always someone else’s fault. You can take out the turnovers and 220 yards and 2 tds is good?
RE: If Jones was on the Bucs offense sure. I mean we should still put up  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2021 4:43 pm : link
In comment 15377963 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
about 30 on them. Do not you realize the Bucs offense is infinitely more talented than ours? They have the most talented offense in the league and it's not really close. They were pretty damn good when Jameis was there, but then they added a rock solid RT, Fournette, and Gronk (who can still play, looks better than he did last year tbh) Or was it the Tom Bradys 45 the Matt Ryans 30 to you last week or whatever the final score was, turned it off in the 4th once the game was not in the balance.

Go look at some of the damn touchdown passes that the attempts on defense were laughable. Hopefully this is the week the Golladay Jones connection gets going. They ran a fade and the dude was like 3 yards off, I'm not even sure how tthat happens. Brady didn't even have to put low to the pylon or high and outside.


You’re not making the point you think you’re making. Brady took advantage of his talent gap. That doesn’t mean he was decent. He was great yesterday. Them being talented doesn’t mean he wasn’t. What did you want 8 touchdowns? Jones needs to throw 3 tds Sunday to even have 5 in three games.
RE: Interesting  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/20/2021 4:44 pm : link
In comment 15377927 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Heinicke’s interception gets brought up but Jone’s fumble gets excused away by the same crowd that says he was good week 1.


Funny. My memory isn't what it used to be, but I don't think people were raving about Daniel Jones after week 1. BUT, I do remember multiple threads burying Garrett for his shit playcalling. You would think some people deny it's possible for Garrett to have an effect on Jones play.
RE: RE: …  
christian : 9/20/2021 4:49 pm : link
In comment 15377928 Dr. D said:
Quote:
He actually played well against Dallas the last game of '20 (the INT was totally EE's fault and it resulted in a 10 pt swing). He also played well a few games around the middle of the season before he got hurt.

I wouldn't count the games when he was severely hobbled. He prolly shouldn't have been playing a couple of those games.


Whether that’s true or not — do you believe he’s been the 2nd best passer in the NFL this year?
I have been a Daniel Jones skeptic since he was in college  
Jarvis : 9/20/2021 4:51 pm : link
However, to just dismiss the PFF is problematic.

His overall PFF grade is 6th

His overall QBR is 9th

His PAA (points above avg contributed) is 8th

His EPA (expected points added) is 8th

PFF is calculated completely differently than these other advanced metrics

Additionally is in tops in the league in depth of completion.

These are all fairly objective (PFF not as objective) measurements and they all seem to line up.

Perhaps he is playing well and what is going on around him is a mess. Price is a disaster at center. In addition to blocking poorly he had multiple high snaps. Barkley clearly isn’t elite right now…and as well as Shep has played, when was the last time someone made a play for Jones in a way that Kelce did last night on that ridiculous run after the catch. The offense was supposed to improve based on Barkley returning to form, signing Golladay, drafting Toney, and consistency along the o-line. None of these things have panned out to this point (it’s early). Couple that with a boring/predictable route tree that Garrett favors (how many 4 curl route plays can they do) and Jones has been the bright spot on offense.

Will Jones prove to be a consistent top 10 QB? I am still skeptical, however i can admit he has impressed thus far (2 games)
Christ this was a good post  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/20/2021 4:52 pm : link
Thanks for saving my faith in BBI
RE: I have been a Daniel Jones skeptic since he was in college  
BSIMatt : 9/20/2021 4:55 pm : link
In comment 15377978 Jarvis said:
Quote:
However, to just dismiss the PFF is problematic.

His overall PFF grade is 6th

His overall QBR is 9th

His PAA (points above avg contributed) is 8th

His EPA (expected points added) is 8th

PFF is calculated completely differently than these other advanced metrics

Additionally is in tops in the league in depth of completion.

These are all fairly objective (PFF not as objective) measurements and they all seem to line up.

Perhaps he is playing well and what is going on around him is a mess. Price is a disaster at center. In addition to blocking poorly he had multiple high snaps. Barkley clearly isn’t elite right now…and as well as Shep has played, when was the last time someone made a play for Jones in a way that Kelce did last night on that ridiculous run after the catch. The offense was supposed to improve based on Barkley returning to form, signing Golladay, drafting Toney, and consistency along the o-line. None of these things have panned out to this point (it’s early). Couple that with a boring/predictable route tree that Garrett favors (how many 4 curl route plays can they do) and Jones has been the bright spot on offense.

Will Jones prove to be a consistent top 10 QB? I am still skeptical, however i can admit he has impressed thus far (2 games)


Great response.
one thing with JOnes  
LG in NYC : 9/20/2021 4:55 pm : link
other than his running ability, he rarely ever can make an off script play.

watching some QB's yesterday so some pretty awesome things when a play breaks down made me think that with JOnes, it is less about what he does but rather what he doesn't do that contributes to losing.

again, I don't put him very high on the list of NYG problems right now but I also don't see him being a difference maker.
RE: RE: If Jones was on the Bucs offense sure. I mean we should still put up  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/20/2021 5:01 pm : link
In comment 15377968 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15377963 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


about 30 on them. Do not you realize the Bucs offense is infinitely more talented than ours? They have the most talented offense in the league and it's not really close. They were pretty damn good when Jameis was there, but then they added a rock solid RT, Fournette, and Gronk (who can still play, looks better than he did last year tbh) Or was it the Tom Bradys 45 the Matt Ryans 30 to you last week or whatever the final score was, turned it off in the 4th once the game was not in the balance.

Go look at some of the damn touchdown passes that the attempts on defense were laughable. Hopefully this is the week the Golladay Jones connection gets going. They ran a fade and the dude was like 3 yards off, I'm not even sure how tthat happens. Brady didn't even have to put low to the pylon or high and outside.



You’re not making the point you think you’re making. Brady took advantage of his talent gap. That doesn’t mean he was decent. He was great yesterday. Them being talented doesn’t mean he wasn’t. What did you want 8 touchdowns? Jones needs to throw 3 tds Sunday to even have 5 in three games.


Okay I get it, in your world it’s the QB and then everyone else is just a jersey with pads. No wonder you think DJ stinks.

You can put 10-15 QBs on the Bucs Sunday and they toss 5 TDs. Every QBs situation is different and Tom choose his situation VERY carefully. You are starting to see the cracks in the Bucs though and it’s their secondary. Their secondary the last decade has been our OL. Some fools gold last year with Ints because teams were forced to play shootout and that front 7 gets after it, best in football.
RE: RE: I have been a Daniel Jones skeptic since he was in college  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/20/2021 5:03 pm : link
In comment 15377988 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
In comment 15377978 Jarvis said:


Quote:


However, to just dismiss the PFF is problematic.


His overall QBR is 9th

His PAA (points above avg contributed) is 8th

His EPA (expected points added) is 8th

PFF is calculated completely differently than these other advanced metrics

Additionally is in tops in the league in depth of completion.

These are all fairly objective (PFF not as objective) measurements and they all seem to line up.

Perhaps he is playing well and what is going on around him is a mess. Price is a disaster at center. In addition to blocking poorly he had multiple high snaps. Barkley clearly isn’t elite right now…and as well as Shep has played, when was the last time someone made a play for Jones in a way that Kelce did last night on that ridiculous run after the catch. The offense was supposed to improve based on Barkley returning to form, signing Golladay, drafting Toney, and consistency along the o-line. None of these things have panned out to this point (it’s early). Couple that with a boring/predictable route tree that Garrett favors (how many 4 curl route plays can they do) and Jones has been the bright spot on offense.

Will Jones prove to be a consistent top 10 QB? I am still skeptical, however i can admit he has impressed thus far (2 games)



Great response.


Times two and all that a talent differential. Of the OL can just be not disastrous this week, I think we see another excellent performance.
RE: RE: RE: If Jones was on the Bucs offense sure. I mean we should still put up  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2021 5:07 pm : link
In comment 15377998 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15377968 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15377963 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


about 30 on them. Do not you realize the Bucs offense is infinitely more talented than ours? They have the most talented offense in the league and it's not really close. They were pretty damn good when Jameis was there, but then they added a rock solid RT, Fournette, and Gronk (who can still play, looks better than he did last year tbh) Or was it the Tom Bradys 45 the Matt Ryans 30 to you last week or whatever the final score was, turned it off in the 4th once the game was not in the balance.

Go look at some of the damn touchdown passes that the attempts on defense were laughable. Hopefully this is the week the Golladay Jones connection gets going. They ran a fade and the dude was like 3 yards off, I'm not even sure how tthat happens. Brady didn't even have to put low to the pylon or high and outside.



You’re not making the point you think you’re making. Brady took advantage of his talent gap. That doesn’t mean he was decent. He was great yesterday. Them being talented doesn’t mean he wasn’t. What did you want 8 touchdowns? Jones needs to throw 3 tds Sunday to even have 5 in three games.



Okay I get it, in your world it’s the QB and then everyone else is just a jersey with pads. No wonder you think DJ stinks.

You can put 10-15 QBs on the Bucs Sunday and they toss 5 TDs. Every QBs situation is different and Tom choose his situation VERY carefully. You are starting to see the cracks in the Bucs though and it’s their secondary. Their secondary the last decade has been our OL. Some fools gold last year with Ints because teams were forced to play shootout and that front 7 gets after it, best in football.


And 10-15 QBs would have played well yesterday. Not a difficult concept to grasp.

RE: RE: Jones still fails to throw  
PatersonPlank : 9/20/2021 5:14 pm : link
In comment 15377908 Now Mike in MD said:
Quote:
In comment 15377886 Producer said:


Quote:


with proper anticipation and timing.

He is a see it / throw it QB.

This is why Golladay was yelling on the sideline. Jones is holding the ball too long.



This is a liad of crap. I saw at least 7 throws thursdsy where he was releasing before a guy was out if his break. Glad to kmow you were privy to the argument between golladay and jones.


I swear people just come here to bitch and don't watch the game. They just troll. Even the announcers pointed out a few times that Jones threw it early, with anticipation. The nice pass to Rudolph was one a specifically remember being pointed out and a replay shown. Its like no matter what really happens in the game, it gets ignored for the "agenda"
Pretty disappointed at 90 responses  
UConn4523 : 9/20/2021 5:19 pm : link
hopefully it’s picks up once everyone’s commute is over.
RE: RE: RE: Jones still fails to throw  
PatersonPlank : 9/20/2021 5:20 pm : link
In comment 15378023 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 15377908 Now Mike in MD said:


Quote:


In comment 15377886 Producer said:


Quote:


with proper anticipation and timing.

He is a see it / throw it QB.

This is why Golladay was yelling on the sideline. Jones is holding the ball too long.



This is a liad of crap. I saw at least 7 throws thursdsy where he was releasing before a guy was out if his break. Glad to kmow you were privy to the argument between golladay and jones.



I swear people just come here to bitch and don't watch the game. They just troll. Even the announcers pointed out a few times that Jones threw it early, with anticipation. The nice pass to Rudolph was one a specifically remember being pointed out and a replay shown. Its like no matter what really happens in the game, it gets ignored for the "agenda"


Oh yeah, and Golladay said he was yelling at Garrett not Jones, so once again you made something up
Year 18 of every other QB in the league  
Jerry in_DC : 9/20/2021 5:31 pm : link
is only good because all the players around him are HoFers.

I'm getting old, but it feels like yesterday when Vincent Jackson and Keenan McCardell were Randy Moss and Jerry Rice. Any HS QB could've done what Phillip Rivers was doing....
RE: And to be clear,  
map7711 : 9/20/2021 5:54 pm : link
In comment 15377891 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Jones was terrible against Denver. Terrible.


The Giants didn’t pick Sam Darnold. Get over it already and move on.
RE: RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
bw in dc : 9/20/2021 5:57 pm : link
In comment 15377952 TLong said:
Quote:
In comment 15377776 bw in dc said:


Quote:


PFF, nothing will.

Was he better than Bridgewater game one? No.

Heinicki game two? I don’t know there either…



Do you think that football in a one player game, like tennis or golf?
These QBs play with 21 other guys, O and D and our OC and DC stunk the place out in both games.


So is this the portion of the Jones debate where someone suggests Jones is only 1/11th of the offense? And he shouldn’t be any more accountable than the LG?

But to answer your question, yes, I do understand that football is a team game and a lot has to happen to get to success.

But the QB is the vital position in the sport and more often than not the play of the QB goes a long way to determining the outcome of a game…
RE: RE: RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/20/2021 6:12 pm : link
In comment 15378082 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15377952 TLong said:


Quote:


In comment 15377776 bw in dc said:


Quote:


PFF, nothing will.

Was he better than Bridgewater game one? No.

Heinicki game two? I don’t know there either…



Do you think that football in a one player game, like tennis or golf?
These QBs play with 21 other guys, O and D and our OC and DC stunk the place out in both games.



So is this the portion of the Jones debate where someone suggests Jones is only 1/11th of the offense? And he shouldn’t be any more accountable than the LG?

But to answer your question, yes, I do understand that football is a team game and a lot has to happen to get to success.

But the QB is the vital position in the sport and more often than not the play of the QB goes a long way to determining the outcome of a game…


Right, and our QB is ranked 2nd by PFF...which suggests that some of the other 11 play like shit. Now you're getting it
RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
BestFeature : 9/20/2021 6:16 pm : link
In comment 15377776 bw in dc said:
Quote:
PFF, nothing will.

Was he better than Bridgewater game one? No.

Heinicki game two? I don’t know there either…


"PFF disagrees with my narrative, PFF must be wrong"
RE: RE: And to be clear,  
Go Terps : 9/20/2021 6:21 pm : link
In comment 15378080 map7711 said:
Quote:
In comment 15377891 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Jones was terrible against Denver. Terrible.



The Giants didn’t pick Sam Darnold. Get over it already and move on.


Darnold wasn't the guy I wanted. And I have moved on - being a Giants fan now is just about trying to understand the errors they make and how it leads to the terrible football we've been subjected to.

15-35. I wonder how bad it has to get before everyone acknowledges this disaster.
RE: RE: RE: And to be clear,  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/20/2021 6:26 pm : link
In comment 15378106 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15378080 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 15377891 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Jones was terrible against Denver. Terrible.



The Giants didn’t pick Sam Darnold. Get over it already and move on.



Darnold wasn't the guy I wanted. And I have moved on - being a Giants fan now is just about trying to understand the errors they make and how it leads to the terrible football we've been subjected to.

15-35. I wonder how bad it has to get before everyone acknowledges this disaster.


I don't think you're alone in thinking 15-35 is a disaster. I don't think you are alone in trying to understand the errors. Your perspective and narrative is what is setting you apart.
What narrative is that  
Go Terps : 9/20/2021 6:28 pm : link
?
RE: What narrative is that  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/20/2021 6:30 pm : link
In comment 15378117 Go Terps said:
Quote:
?


Your posts portray that the Giants are only capable of performing negatively unless x happens.
You might not be wrong...but it is entirely possible that good things do happen that we can build off of and that x might not always be the reason for losing.
It seems you don't communicate any positives you see.
RE: RE: What narrative is that  
Go Terps : 9/20/2021 6:38 pm : link
In comment 15378120 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
In comment 15378117 Go Terps said:


Quote:


?



Your posts portray that the Giants are only capable of performing negatively unless x happens.
You might not be wrong...but it is entirely possible that good things do happen that we can build off of and that x might not always be the reason for losing.
It seems you don't communicate any positives you see.


I said Jones played well in Washington.

People have been grasping for reasons to identify "improvement", "growth", and the "arrow pointing up" in the face of losses for years on this board. The flawed methodologies that characterize this organization haven't changed - looking for positives in the face of poor results...THAT is narrative.

15-35, 0 days over .500 since 2016 - that is not narrative. That is fact. If the Giants were a good, well run team I'd be here saying they are a good, well run team. I'd be happy to say that as I root for them to win.

But they are a bad, poorly run team. Jones has been a bad quarterback. Barkley has been a disaster. These are facts, not narrative.
The team is close to being in crisis. I don’t mind  
cosmicj : 9/20/2021 6:40 pm : link
Terps’ negativity because it’s entirely warranted. But I saw our two most important young players - Jones and AT — play good games Thursday, so that at least provides a basis for future growth.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
bw in dc : 9/20/2021 6:42 pm : link
In comment 15378099 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:


So is this the portion of the Jones debate where someone suggests Jones is only 1/11th of the offense? And he shouldn’t be any more accountable than the LG?

But to answer your question, yes, I do understand that football is a team game and a lot has to happen to get to success.

But the QB is the vital position in the sport and more often than not the play of the QB goes a long way to determining the outcome of a game…



Right, and our QB is ranked 2nd by PFF...which suggests that some of the other 11 play like shit. Now you're getting it


In an honest moment, I am fairly sure you don't buy this ranking...
RE: RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
bw in dc : 9/20/2021 6:46 pm : link
In comment 15378104 BestFeature said:
Quote:
In comment 15377776 bw in dc said:


Quote:


PFF, nothing will.

Was he better than Bridgewater game one? No.

Heinicki game two? I don’t know there either…



"PFF disagrees with my narrative, PFF must be wrong"


Okay, so what is my narrative du jour these days?

Look, I get the tactic you are trying to play with this narrative buzzword, but it's getting stale and some new material is needed...

RE: RE: RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
BestFeature : 9/20/2021 6:55 pm : link
In comment 15378140 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15378104 BestFeature said:


Quote:


In comment 15377776 bw in dc said:


Quote:


PFF, nothing will.

Was he better than Bridgewater game one? No.

Heinicki game two? I don’t know there either…



"PFF disagrees with my narrative, PFF must be wrong"



Okay, so what is my narrative du jour these days?

Look, I get the tactic you are trying to play with this narrative buzzword, but it's getting stale and some new material is needed...


Where's the lie? And your narrative is always the same, so it's not a narrative du jour.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/20/2021 6:58 pm : link
Well, it's through 2 weeks. Jones-that one idiotic TO aside-hasn't been the issue. The issue has been the defense sucking & Garrett's offense having no imagination.
RE: Carr is just one example  
Johnny5 : 9/20/2021 7:08 pm : link
In comment 15377848 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Anyone with Sunday Ticket can tell you there are many quarterbacks playing better football than Jones through two weeks. Shit, Jones was the second best quarterback in the field in both of his games. He played well in Washington, but Heinicke made the plays to win at the end.

But the bar for many here on Moral Victory Interactive is very, very low.

Dude, give me a break. You are going to tell me Heineke was better than Jones on Thursday night? If so I'd like some of what you are smoking. The guy had all day to throw every play, Jones had a run called back and a number of dropped passes including a huge TD to Slayton. Those two plays were an 8 point swing. And it STILL came down to a FG gimme on a penalty.

And no I don't think Jones should be ranked ahead of Carr here (although I believe Carr has 3 fumbles so far this year). Carr has been playing really well. But he's not all that far behind. I know you hate the guy but holy shit you can't even give him even an ounce credit.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
bw in dc : 9/20/2021 7:09 pm : link
In comment 15378150 BestFeature said:
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Okay, so what is my narrative du jour these days?

Look, I get the tactic you are trying to play with this narrative buzzword, but it's getting stale and some new material is needed...




Where's the lie? And your narrative is always the same, so it's not a narrative du jour.


The lie is Jones is the second ranked QB in the NFL.

FWIW, if PFF said Jones was the 25th ranked QB in the league, I would find that equally absurd right now.

Jones is playing pretty good football. He now needs to play as well against the rest of the league as he does against WFT.
So...  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 9/20/2021 7:23 pm : link

RE: RE: Carr is just one example  
bw in dc : 9/20/2021 7:32 pm : link
In comment 15378163 Johnny5 said:
Quote:


Dude, give me a break. You are going to tell me Heineke was better than Jones on Thursday night? If so I'd like some of what you are smoking. The guy had all day to throw every play, Jones had a run called back and a number of dropped passes including a huge TD to Slayton. Those two plays were an 8 point swing. And it STILL came down to a FG gimme on a penalty.

And no I don't think Jones should be ranked ahead of Carr here (although I believe Carr has 3 fumbles so far this year). Carr has been playing really well. But he's not all that far behind. I know you hate the guy but holy shit you can't even give him even an ounce credit.


Three stats I look at these days for QBs are: QBR, YPA, and AY/A.

In those categories, Jones is:

9th in QBR
16th in YPA
14th in AY/A

Those seem much more reasonable.

There is a stat called ANY/A. It is like AY/A but it accounts for sacks and sack yardage. I'm keeping an eye on that one to see how it measures up against the three mentioned.
RE: everyone has to exaggerate just to make a fucking point  
Sean : 9/20/2021 7:35 pm : link
In comment 15377897 djm said:
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I hate the fucking internet.

You made a post in another thread that you were going to quit watching the team because of coaching. I believe I have that right.
RE: RE: RE: This should go well  
EricJ : 9/20/2021 7:41 pm : link
In comment 15377817 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15377811 UConn4523 said:


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In comment 15377774 Strahan91 said:


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.



Haha, just fired up some popcorn and cracked a beer.



Did you actually?

Anyone that's watched Carr play knows this is a ridiculous ranking.


he was cracking a beer to sit back and watch the reactions from people like you. Not to celebrate Jones' performance thus far.
RE: RE: RE: Carr is just one example  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/20/2021 8:06 pm : link
In comment 15378203 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15378163 Johnny5 said:


Quote:




Dude, give me a break. You are going to tell me Heineke was better than Jones on Thursday night? If so I'd like some of what you are smoking. The guy had all day to throw every play, Jones had a run called back and a number of dropped passes including a huge TD to Slayton. Those two plays were an 8 point swing. And it STILL came down to a FG gimme on a penalty.

And no I don't think Jones should be ranked ahead of Carr here (although I believe Carr has 3 fumbles so far this year). Carr has been playing really well. But he's not all that far behind. I know you hate the guy but holy shit you can't even give him even an ounce credit.



Three stats I look at these days for QBs are: QBR, YPA, and AY/A.

In those categories, Jones is:

9th in QBR
16th in YPA
14th in AY/A

Those seem much more reasonable.

There is a stat called ANY/A. It is like AY/A but it accounts for sacks and sack yardage. I'm keeping an eye on that one to see how it measures up against the three mentioned.


His YPA would be higher if Garrett called plays in the opener like he did verse WFT. Either way, it's a small sample.
It is promising though because Denver has a very good defense and we know WFT is at least middle of the pack. Lets see how he does against one of the bottom dwellers. I don't know if you play fantasy, but generally speaking, guys tend to put up a lot better stats depending on who they play. The Eagles with that scrub Jalen put up 32 were barely functional at home after the 49ers woke up.
Yet today we might not be able to get a 3rd  
xman : 9/20/2021 8:26 pm : link
draft pick for him. Does he know how to win? Is his ceiling high enough? We will find out shortly
RE: Yet today we might not be able to get a 3rd  
bw in dc : 9/20/2021 8:42 pm : link
In comment 15378241 xman said:
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draft pick for him. Does he know how to win? Is his ceiling high enough? We will find out shortly


We've kicked this around when Darnold got traded. If the Jets could garner a second rounder for SD, I have to imagine we would get at least that for Jones...
RE: RE: RE: Carr is just one example  
PatersonPlank : 9/20/2021 8:52 pm : link
In comment 15378203 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15378163 Johnny5 said:


Quote:




Dude, give me a break. You are going to tell me Heineke was better than Jones on Thursday night? If so I'd like some of what you are smoking. The guy had all day to throw every play, Jones had a run called back and a number of dropped passes including a huge TD to Slayton. Those two plays were an 8 point swing. And it STILL came down to a FG gimme on a penalty.

And no I don't think Jones should be ranked ahead of Carr here (although I believe Carr has 3 fumbles so far this year). Carr has been playing really well. But he's not all that far behind. I know you hate the guy but holy shit you can't even give him even an ounce credit.



Three stats I look at these days for QBs are: QBR, YPA, and AY/A.

In those categories, Jones is:

9th in QBR
16th in YPA
14th in AY/A

Those seem much more reasonable.

There is a stat called ANY/A. It is like AY/A but it accounts for sacks and sack yardage. I'm keeping an eye on that one to see how it measures up against the three mentioned.


Curious, why YPA and YPC? Wouldn't YPC be a better metric, since anyone can throw long bad passes. Seems to me that the passes a QB actually completes (so throws well) should matter more?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Carr is just one example  
bw in dc : 9/20/2021 9:05 pm : link
In comment 15378262 PatersonPlank said:
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Curious, why YPA and YPC? Wouldn't YPC be a better metric, since anyone can throw long bad passes. Seems to me that the passes a QB actually completes (so throws well) should matter more?


YPA is better than YPC because it smooths out the result by including incompletions.

Further, YPA it's been shown to be a very accurate measurement for success. Teams that have the higher YPA tend to be the team that wins. There is more to it, but that's been the general trend.

A very good compliment is AY/A because that accounts for TDs and INTs.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/20/2021 9:06 pm : link
In comment 15378135 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15378099 Thunderstruck27 said:


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So is this the portion of the Jones debate where someone suggests Jones is only 1/11th of the offense? And he shouldn’t be any more accountable than the LG?

But to answer your question, yes, I do understand that football is a team game and a lot has to happen to get to success.

But the QB is the vital position in the sport and more often than not the play of the QB goes a long way to determining the outcome of a game…



Right, and our QB is ranked 2nd by PFF...which suggests that some of the other 11 play like shit. Now you're getting it



In an honest moment, I am fairly sure you don't buy this ranking...


No, I don't. But I do believe he still could be the future and at least deserves to play out his rookie contract. I think that he is capable of big games. What I don't see is players around him making plays. Watching Kelce go 70 yards practically by himself lets me know that nobody other than Jones on this team is capable of making big plays. It just perplexes me that there are so many people that shit on Jones when there are barely any threads that shit on all our defensive players that are making big money. I have turned on Gettleman. He built a loser.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
bw in dc : 9/20/2021 9:55 pm : link
In comment 15378285 Thunderstruck27 said:
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No, I don't. But I do believe he still could be the future and at least deserves to play out his rookie contract. I think that he is capable of big games. What I don't see is players around him making plays. Watching Kelce go 70 yards practically by himself lets me know that nobody other than Jones on this team is capable of making big plays. It just perplexes me that there are so many people that shit on Jones when there are barely any threads that shit on all our defensive players that are making big money. I have turned on Gettleman. He built a loser.


There has been plenty of commentary the last two weeks about the defensive struggles. And how they haven't lived up to their expectations. I have no problem saying we lost to WFT because they made Heinicke look like Joe Montana. I'm a Graham guy, so I am surprised what we are looking at.

Chiefs do have excellent skill players. But you do realize the reason the get so much space, and it looks so easy, is because the defense has is so concerned about Mahomes making EVERY throw. You can't take any part of the field away from him because he can get the ball everywhere.

Jones, unfortunately, doesn't have that skill. Few do. But it's a point worth making because just because you have weapons doesn't mean you will have the similar success as other teams with weapons.



RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If this doesn’t make you question…  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/20/2021 10:48 pm : link
In comment 15378313 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15378285 Thunderstruck27 said:


Quote:



No, I don't. But I do believe he still could be the future and at least deserves to play out his rookie contract. I think that he is capable of big games. What I don't see is players around him making plays. Watching Kelce go 70 yards practically by himself lets me know that nobody other than Jones on this team is capable of making big plays. It just perplexes me that there are so many people that shit on Jones when there are barely any threads that shit on all our defensive players that are making big money. I have turned on Gettleman. He built a loser.



There has been plenty of commentary the last two weeks about the defensive struggles. And how they haven't lived up to their expectations. I have no problem saying we lost to WFT because they made Heinicke look like Joe Montana. I'm a Graham guy, so I am surprised what we are looking at.

Chiefs do have excellent skill players. But you do realize the reason the get so much space, and it looks so easy, is because the defense has is so concerned about Mahomes making EVERY throw. You can't take any part of the field away from him because he can get the ball everywhere.

Jones, unfortunately, doesn't have that skill. Few do. But it's a point worth making because just because you have weapons doesn't mean you will have the similar success as other teams with weapons.




I thought Graham had it figured out last year. We will see if he can right the ship.
It isn't just the Chiefs skill players that are making plays. Just this week there were plenty of home run plays.
Buffalo's Singletary had a huge run right through Miami's defense. Jax had Jamal Agnew return a kick for a TD. Henry with a 60 yard TD run. Players make plays. They find the endzone. We have players dropping passes, not getting open, and running for 2 ypc.
ONE QUESTION  
Carl in CT : 9/21/2021 12:14 pm : link
why the debate on Jones over and over? Top 10 or not he is a good QB. With all the injuries and players who suck on this team , our $90m disappointing Defense and it still all on Jones. 250yds being knocked? Add in the drops. How many passes does he throw? Not nearly as much as most QBs. Why? Cause defense can’t get the other team off the field. Or I guess running the ball doesn’t count. We have a promising kid who gets knocked over and over when our D gets maybe 30% of shit here when they are 90% responsible.
Carl in CT  
Go Terps : 9/21/2021 12:23 pm : link
Now is when it makes the most sense to debate Jones. A decision on his fifth year option is due at the end of this year. It's not just about whether you think Jones is good - it's about whether he's worth being paid like a franchise quarterback. Timing and situation matter.

The way I see it, this organization is on the brink of another teardown. It needs to be paying a big QB contract like it needs a hole in the head. Jones played well in Washington - he needs to be at least that good nearly all the time to merit getting paid. Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

At this point Jones is still a guy with an 8-20 record that's never beaten a team over .500.

If this team is sitting at 2-7 in a few weeks we can't be talking about Jones being the guy. It just makes no sense.
RE: ONE QUESTION  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/21/2021 12:37 pm : link
In comment 15378599 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
why the debate on Jones over and over? Top 10 or not he is a good QB. With all the injuries and players who suck on this team , our $90m disappointing Defense and it still all on Jones. 250yds being knocked? Add in the drops. How many passes does he throw? Not nearly as much as most QBs. Why? Cause defense can’t get the other team off the field. Or I guess running the ball doesn’t count. We have a promising kid who gets knocked over and over when our D gets maybe 30% of shit here when they are 90% responsible.


He's a good QB when he plays washington. When else was he a good QB?

1 touchdown a game is good now? He was held without a passing TD in half his games played last year. Go ahead and excuse that on talent not picking him up, but Daniel Jones was not a mid-round pick they're trying to turn into an NFL starter. He was Pick #6. The expectation is that the franchise revolves around you and you lead from the front on performance.

As long as people are willing to draw a false equivalence of Jones taking a long time to develop to quarterbacks who haven't even played a full season worth of games. as if it's some proof that we shouldn't have high expectations, this should continue to be a point of argument.

Guess the Rams should not  
Giants73 : 9/21/2021 12:45 pm : link
Have traded for Stafford since he is a career loser.
Thunderstruck…..their players make plays because they have offenses  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/21/2021 12:48 pm : link
designed to. Garret is obsessed with down and distance which kills chances for big plays and YAC. NFL is all about YAC now and we barely get any because Garrett wants to run 100 curls a game.

Golladay didn’t play well, but the signing is already worth it getting in his grill. That big PI to him was an audible hot call, it was probably another curl route. I’m really hoping DJ just starts taking things over. Garrett was solid Thursday, but definitely still a ton of room for improvement. I’m giving him a pass for now because Graham has been laughably bad. Whoever said DJ is getting most the ire when the defense has been 90 percent of the problem nailed it.
RE: Thunderstruck…..their players make plays because they have offenses  
bw in dc : 9/21/2021 3:23 pm : link
In comment 15378632 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
designed to. Garret is obsessed with down and distance which kills chances for big plays and YAC. NFL is all about YAC now and we barely get any because Garrett wants to run 100 curls a game.



Really?

KG dropped a fly that would have been a long gain, Slayton scored a TD on a go, and Slayton almost had a TD on an out and up. Plus, DJ hit Shep on numerous crossing/drag routes and Shep got got YAC.

Slayton has a 33 yard completion.
Smith had a 21 yard completion.
Shep had a 21 yard completion.

Let's look at the Rams since McVay is an offensive innovator and know he has Stafford. Kupp had a 44 yarder, Henderson had 23 yarder, and Woods had a 16 yarder.

Gee, what a huge difference between McVay's attack and Garrett's...

TTH  
ryanmkeane : 9/21/2021 3:28 pm : link
“One touchdown a game” is cute, but he has 4 touchdowns. 2 running and 2 passing. Don’t act like the rushing TDs don’t count.
RE: RE: Thunderstruck…..their players make plays because they have offenses  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/21/2021 3:33 pm : link
In comment 15378787 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15378632 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


designed to. Garret is obsessed with down and distance which kills chances for big plays and YAC. NFL is all about YAC now and we barely get any because Garrett wants to run 100 curls a game.





Really?

KG dropped a fly that would have been a long gain, Slayton scored a TD on a go, and Slayton almost had a TD on an out and up. Plus, DJ hit Shep on numerous crossing/drag routes and Shep got got YAC.

Slayton has a 33 yard completion.
Smith had a 21 yard completion.
Shep had a 21 yard completion.

Let's look at the Rams since McVay is an offensive innovator and know he has Stafford. Kupp had a 44 yarder, Henderson had 23 yarder, and Woods had a 16 yarder.

Gee, what a huge difference between McVay's attack and Garrett's...


Like I said, it was much better this week. And exactly why we saw more success.

Are we seriously comparing these two offenses schematically ? They don’t resemble each other at all. When’s the last time curls and sticks was a staple in the Rams offense? When’s the last time we put defenders in conflict in zone? When’s the last time we moved the pocket? We should definitely be moving it behind Andrew Thomas now, but I know we have a better hope of watching pigs fly. Garret was much better this week, but there’s still room for improvement. It was said an another thread “amazing” yeah no. It was solid and did look much more modern both schematically and calling plays. I don’t want to see the reverse on the edge of fg range ever again and we leaned on running out of tight in the redzone last year. Well zero chance of that happening with Saquon and this OL.

I don’t have a problem trying it next week out the gates, but as soon as it doesn’t work. We need to get out of out. The Bucs tried against the Falcons and they couldn’t do it and they are much better than us there. If they look at the tape this week and think they are going to, I’ll pretty much lose hope in Judge tbh. Just tells me he has a stick up his ass for execution and not scheme.
RE: TTH  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/21/2021 3:38 pm : link
In comment 15378795 ryanmkeane said:
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“One touchdown a game” is cute, but he has 4 touchdowns. 2 running and 2 passing. Don’t act like the rushing TDs don’t count.


I followed it up with the. Lear context of passing touchdowns. Don't cherry pick.
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