I understand that Saquan is most likely still not at 100%. That being said I think we have a decent sample size for his level of production and effect on the team.
I looked into the stats over the past three years.
With Saquan:
Record - 8 wins 25 losses
Rushing yards (individually) - 99.3 (73.5)
Points - 22.2
Offensive yards - 373.4
Without Saquan:
Record - 7 wins 10 losses
Rushing yards - 114.4
Points - 17.6
Offensive yards - 313.6
Our record and running game has been better without him but our PPG and yards per game are worse. My theory is that his style of running: short gains and negative yardage on 85% of carries with an occasional long run, leads to short drives and 3 and outs.
So while he opens up the passing game and leads to more overall offensive production, he is also hurting the defense by allowing the opponent to have more possessions.
Even though he is extremely explosive and a great athlete, I am beginning to question his net effect on the team.
DG could not miss with that pick and he did . Now Giants need to find a way to use him effectively . Pass first and empty the box, spread the defense.....etc...
I believe Barkley can help in a limited role but he is not an every down NFL RB.
That’s the common narrative I always read, it’s the o-line.
But how do we average more rushing yards per game without our #2 overall pick with the same o-line?
It’s nothing against Barkley personally - he seems like a wonderful role model, but watching guys like JJ Taylor on the Patriots, they just pick up an extra 2-3 yards on the end of runs by diving forward. It just makes it a lot easier to keep drives moving
I think I would trade right now
Barkley
A LB that Denver could use right now since Chubb is injured.
For the injured Chubb with a injury history
And one of their RBs
I would trade probably more if I had, getting a pass rusher for next year and/or this year. Yeah I know pipe dream, I'm just that desperate for a pass rusher.
Link - ( New Window )
Yeah I do, I prefaced that it was stupid. On the other hand maybe Gettleman is not the only GM who thinks Barkley was touches by the hand of God LoL
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He’d be a real problem for defenses. You watch other teams and guys get by the LOS without being touched at least a handful of times a game. With us it seems to happen once every other game. Maybe that just my frustration but I’d just like to see one game where he gets 4 or 5 of those.
That’s the common narrative I always read, it’s the o-line.
But how do we average more rushing yards per game without our #2 overall pick with the same o-line?
It’s nothing against Barkley personally - he seems like a wonderful role model, but watching guys like JJ Taylor on the Patriots, they just pick up an extra 2-3 yards on the end of runs by diving forward. It just makes it a lot easier to keep drives moving
I don’t think those numbers tell the story. Without Barkley no one cared one bit about our run game or did anything special to try and stop it. You give Barkley a few holes and he stars ripping off a few 20+ yard runs and the opposing D will be doing plenty to stop him. Look at the number of 20+ and 40+ yard runs rom his rookie season. It’s something.
He is 100% in football terms. The problem like a lot of our issues is the lack of playing time. I get the point that most make about just entering the season healthy but it cannot come at the expense of just basically bypassing the preseason. There needs to be a legit balance between actually preparing to play an NFL season and being healthy. Players play. They can't live in bubble wrap during the preseason and expect to flip a switch during the season. Every player needs some kind of work. Barkley obviously needs a lot more tham he got for two main reasons. One, he doesn't fully know what his leg can do and he is finding out as he goes when the games are on the line. Two, he's not seeing things great right now because of the lack of live reps.
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In comment 15378057 BillT said:
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He’d be a real problem for defenses. You watch other teams and guys get by the LOS without being touched at least a handful of times a game. With us it seems to happen once every other game. Maybe that just my frustration but I’d just like to see one game where he gets 4 or 5 of those.
That’s the common narrative I always read, it’s the o-line.
But how do we average more rushing yards per game without our #2 overall pick with the same o-line?
It’s nothing against Barkley personally - he seems like a wonderful role model, but watching guys like JJ Taylor on the Patriots, they just pick up an extra 2-3 yards on the end of runs by diving forward. It just makes it a lot easier to keep drives moving
I don’t think those numbers tell the story. Without Barkley no one cared one bit about our run game or did anything special to try and stop it. You give Barkley a few holes and he stars ripping off a few 20+ yard runs and the opposing D will be doing plenty to stop him. Look at the number of 20+ and 40+ yard runs rom his rookie season. It’s something.
There’s no denying his ability to produce big runs. I’d bet that he’ll be near the top of the league in that category again this year.
My point is that if it’s 1st and 10 and the goal is to make it 2nd and 7 or less to keep the offense “on schedule”, I probably take Gallman over Barkley.
And I think keeping the offense “on schedule” might be more important to winning games in today’s NFL
He averaged 4.6 y/c last year in his only year as a starter…
Barkley’s career average is 4.7 y/c (which is also a good average).
I never said Wayne gallman is Derrick Henry, it just seems like the typical Gallman run was for 3 yards, and the typical Barkley run is for 1 yard.
I just think median might be more important to winning.
Isn’t the win loss record a bit odd?
The W/L record is weird? Yeah, if you believe a RB alone significantly moves the needle one way or the other on a bad team.
To some extent I understand those feelings. We are now 0-2 for the fifth consecutive season, and have the worst winning percentage of any team since 2017. But we still have to be patient with Barkley. Same for Toney, who missed all of camp.
The W/L record is weird? Yeah, if you believe a RB alone significantly moves the needle one way or the other on a bad team.
How am I cherry picking stats? I’m using the most general stats available, y/c, rushing yards per game, w/l record etc.
And by saying a rushing back doesn’t significantly over the needle on win loss record, that kind of proves the premise of the post. Barkley doesn’t significantly increase this teams chance of winning.
Also would you say that Elliot/Henry don’t significantly “move the needle”?
I agree with this, he would probably be much better suited as a third down back or occasionally at receiver.
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Gallman did not fit here because he's got hands of stone. And if Gallman were truly as effective as you believe he is, SF would have kept him and he would not be a 3rd stringer on ATL.
The W/L record is weird? Yeah, if you believe a RB alone significantly moves the needle one way or the other on a bad team.
How am I cherry picking stats? I’m using the most general stats available, y/c, rushing yards per game, w/l record etc.
And by saying a rushing back doesn’t significantly over the needle on win loss record, that kind of proves the premise of the post. Barkley doesn’t significantly increase this teams chance of winning.
Also would you say that Elliot/Henry don’t significantly “move the needle”?
Alone? No. They're exceptional players within a system with weapons all around them. And they're all head and shoulders above Wayne Gallman. BBI instantly falls in love with guys the moment they're cut or allowed to sign elsewhere.
This team, and whether you think it's built correctly or not, whether you think the coaches know what they're doing or not, has had key pieces missing for significant chunks of time. Jones, Engram, Barkley. No one player can carry a team on his back.
+1.
And, Garrett has no idea how to use SBs presence on the field.
Then why have the rushing stats in general been better without SB if everything else has been the same?
At a certain point, you do at least have to wonder what is causing that variance.
Tiki said he would learn not to try and break every play and just take what the defense was giving. He has not learned that at all. He still dances or moves laterally just about every time he gets the ball.
And if anything, he is less of s factor in the passing game as s receiver than he was his first year.
Zero improvement
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In comment 15378057 BillT said:
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He’d be a real problem for defenses. You watch other teams and guys get by the LOS without being touched at least a handful of times a game. With us it seems to happen once every other game. Maybe that just my frustration but I’d just like to see one game where he gets 4 or 5 of those.
That’s the common narrative I always read, it’s the o-line.
But how do we average more rushing yards per game without our #2 overall pick with the same o-line?
It’s nothing against Barkley personally - he seems like a wonderful role model, but watching guys like JJ Taylor on the Patriots, they just pick up an extra 2-3 yards on the end of runs by diving forward. It just makes it a lot easier to keep drives moving
I don’t think those numbers tell the story. Without Barkley no one cared one bit about our run game or did anything special to try and stop it. You give Barkley a few holes and he stars ripping off a few 20+ yard runs and the opposing D will be doing plenty to stop him. Look at the number of 20+ and 40+ yard runs rom his rookie season. It’s something.
I don't think you realize how silly that sounds. The defense might key on Barkley a bit more than an average RB, but it seems like you're suggesting that opposing defenses flat out ignore the running game when SB is hurt.
And if you're going to reference the number of long runs that Barkley had his rookie season, can you also let us know how many rushes resulted in one yard or less?
While watching Saquon's outstanding highlight video from Penn State, I was surprised among the plays by one where when presented by two defenders he lay down at their feet in a fetal position. I assume to absolutely assure ball security.
The RB in the video had a slightly different approach to defenders. See if you can tell the difference.
A gifted RB - ( New Window )
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In comment 15378071 uconn18 said:
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In comment 15378057 BillT said:
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He’d be a real problem for defenses. You watch other teams and guys get by the LOS without being touched at least a handful of times a game. With us it seems to happen once every other game. Maybe that just my frustration but I’d just like to see one game where he gets 4 or 5 of those.
That’s the common narrative I always read, it’s the o-line.
But how do we average more rushing yards per game without our #2 overall pick with the same o-line?
It’s nothing against Barkley personally - he seems like a wonderful role model, but watching guys like JJ Taylor on the Patriots, they just pick up an extra 2-3 yards on the end of runs by diving forward. It just makes it a lot easier to keep drives moving
I don’t think those numbers tell the story. Without Barkley no one cared one bit about our run game or did anything special to try and stop it. You give Barkley a few holes and he stars ripping off a few 20+ yard runs and the opposing D will be doing plenty to stop him. Look at the number of 20+ and 40+ yard runs rom his rookie season. It’s something.
I don't think you realize how silly that sounds. The defense might key on Barkley a bit more than an average RB, but it seems like you're suggesting that opposing defenses flat out ignore the running game when SB is hurt.
And if you're going to reference the number of long runs that Barkley had his rookie season, can you also let us know how many rushes resulted in one yard or less?
His median ypc was 2, the mode was 1.
he had 262 carries for 1307 yards.
his top 13 carries by yards gained resulted in 576 yds (44% of his yards but also an insane ypc)
his top 26 carries by yards gained resulted in 781 yards (about 60% of his yards)
But one needs to compare vs the league not vs his own ypc
There are stats out there for this. EPA, weighted and unweighted success rates.
All tell the same story - incredible runner. Not incredible running back.
And that’s just rushing - terrible in pass pro.
On receiving, Don’t think he’s great at finding soft spots in underneath coverage.
Had hoped burns could have fixed him. Too early too tell but what a disappointment.
To some extent I understand those feelings. We are now 0-2 for the fifth consecutive season, and have the worst winning percentage of any team since 2017. But we still have to be patient with Barkley. Same for Toney, who missed all of camp.
I don’t think I m impatient, and I don’t want to trade him. I just never wanted him drafted at #2, I m not the least surprised at his impact on the team so far, but that ship has sailed.
While Gettleman has made some nice moves to improve the teams personnel , he has made monumental mistakes, and drafting a running back with the second pick in the draft is his biggest.
The reason this team has been a doormat for many years now is, poor offensive line play, lack of a dominant edge rusher, and never drafting a lb that is A play maker
Hope Barkley proves me wrong, but so far this has turned out as I expected it would, including the injury
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In comment 15378107 BillT said:
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In comment 15378071 uconn18 said:
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In comment 15378057 BillT said:
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He’d be a real problem for defenses. You watch other teams and guys get by the LOS without being touched at least a handful of times a game. With us it seems to happen once every other game. Maybe that just my frustration but I’d just like to see one game where he gets 4 or 5 of those.
That’s the common narrative I always read, it’s the o-line.
But how do we average more rushing yards per game without our #2 overall pick with the same o-line?
It’s nothing against Barkley personally - he seems like a wonderful role model, but watching guys like JJ Taylor on the Patriots, they just pick up an extra 2-3 yards on the end of runs by diving forward. It just makes it a lot easier to keep drives moving
I don’t think those numbers tell the story. Without Barkley no one cared one bit about our run game or did anything special to try and stop it. You give Barkley a few holes and he stars ripping off a few 20+ yard runs and the opposing D will be doing plenty to stop him. Look at the number of 20+ and 40+ yard runs rom his rookie season. It’s something.
I don't think you realize how silly that sounds. The defense might key on Barkley a bit more than an average RB, but it seems like you're suggesting that opposing defenses flat out ignore the running game when SB is hurt.
And if you're going to reference the number of long runs that Barkley had his rookie season, can you also let us know how many rushes resulted in one yard or less?
I made a post about this and did the math by pulling every carry from statgeek
His median ypc was 2, the mode was 1.
he had 262 carries for 1307 yards.
his top 13 carries by yards gained resulted in 576 yds (44% of his yards but also an insane ypc)
his top 26 carries by yards gained resulted in 781 yards (about 60% of his yards)
I just took a look at it, really interesting data.
I’d also mention that Reggie Bush was also known as a home run hitter at running back, and his metrics in median and mode are still much better.
The Washington game was a perfect encapsulation:
8 carries for 41 yards with a 41 yard run thrown in.
One good run that leads to a field goal is not worth the other 2-3 drives being stalled by the other carries.
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but what is not debateable is the total failure of this organization to build around him since.
Garrett apparently also has no idea how to use Jones either. I can't believe that I feel as though Shurmer did a better job with this offense than Garrett.
+1.
And, Garrett has no idea how to use SBs presence on the field.
8 carries for 41 yards with a 41 yard run thrown in.
One good run that leads to a field goal is not worth the other 2-3 drives being stalled by the other carries.
Actually it's even worse than that, because Barkley's 41 yd. run did NOT even set up a FG.