“Yes,” Rivera told the New York Post when asked if Manning is a Hall of Famer. “Because when it came clutch time, big time, he showed up. When it really counted, when it had to be done, he showed up.”
It's that simple. Rivera is a well respected football mind too.
Link - (
New Window )
I think he was always a shoe in, just to many big time moments, longevity, and everything you want in a guy off the field. However I agree with the benching causing a lot of non-Giants fans to maybe take a little more notice.
I think he was always a shoe in, just to many big time moments, longevity, and everything you want in a guy off the field. However I agree with the benching causing a lot of non-Giants fans to maybe take a little more notice.
Agreed, but it wasn't just non-Giant fans.
I don't doubt that it didn't help sway some people that matter, but I don't think its a large number, most already respected him.
The fact the Giants have continued to suck after Eli left also helps his case IMO.
years of Eli's career aren't pinned on him. One of the biggest destroyers of Tiki's career was after he made this huge ordeal and circus around his retirement, The Giants won the superbowl the next year without him.
Can we stop talking about how Eli was benched? This was something concocted by the media. If you don't remember, go back and look at the stories. The Giants' plan was to have him START every game at the end of a lost season and have the back-up come in for the second half to get experience and allow the team to evaluate him. That's just smart, something most teams do with young players when the season is lost. But most Giants coaches have refused to do it. Eli balked at the idea, saying what if the game is close at halftime? Go look at how close the games were at halftime in the previous games.
In the end, it was Eli who decided he didn't want to start under that scenario. Eli benched himself. I love Eli, but HE quit on the team, the coaches didn't bench him. If any other top quarterback had done that, Giants fans would have been blasting them. But the media loved Eli, so he got a pass.
Quote:
Benching Eli stirred up a lot of support for Eli that didn't seem to be there prior
Can we stop talking about how Eli was benched? This was something concocted by the media. If you don't remember, go back and look at the stories. The Giants' plan was to have him START every game at the end of a lost season and have the back-up come in for the second half to get experience and allow the team to evaluate him. That's just smart, something most teams do with young players when the season is lost. But most Giants coaches have refused to do it. Eli balked at the idea, saying what if the game is close at halftime? Go look at how close the games were at halftime in the previous games.
In the end, it was Eli who decided he didn't want to start under that scenario. Eli benched himself. I love Eli, but HE quit on the team, the coaches didn't bench him. If any other top quarterback had done that, Giants fans would have been blasting them. But the media loved Eli, so he got a pass.
I have read a lot of funny posts and misinformed posts on this site - but this certainly takes the cake.
You really think its a good idea of putting a guy in in the middle of the game right after half time is a good idea? You think taking a guy out who may have been playing great 1st half is going to be respected by the team. Those guys are out there to play and win every game. Fans may not understand that but they dont tank.
Taking someone out mid game to evaluate another player is stupid. Eli gave the player the opportunity to play the whole game. And plus it was was for Geno Smith of all people, not the rookie.
If the Reese/McAdoo said - they would insert Webb if a game got out of hand, fine. Thats understandable. But can you imagine telling a professional who has 220 yards and 3 TDs at half and the team is winning that it is time to hit the bench - you dont think people would be pissed?
If you're going to claim he benched himself at least do so with the facts as to why instead of this BS that he quit on the team
From what I read, Manning is a consensus HOFer both because of his play and brand. I believe the voters feel this way.
He was a good QB for a very long time and won two rings. He’s also part of the most iconic family in the history of the league. My guess is he’s 100% lock as a 2nd ballot HOFer.
If you're going to claim he benched himself at least do so with the facts as to why instead of this BS that he quit on the team
Truth and btw a class move by a class guy!
From what I read, Manning is a consensus HOFer both because of his play and brand. I believe the voters feel this way.
He was a good QB for a very long time and won two rings. He’s also part of the most iconic family in the history of the league. My guess is he’s 100% lock as a 2nd ballot HOFer.
I agree. You can tell that ESPN and the like went the low hanging fruit route like usual and just shat on Eli because its an easy sell. Cameras off im willing to bet the conversations are drastically different.
Plus, why would anyone want to go out of their way to be on their bad side post football? Doesn't make sense like it did when they were playing.
Plus, why would anyone want to go out of their way to be on their bad side post football? Doesn't make sense like it did when they were playing.
Yup. And you'll see his treatment by the bozos at ESPN improve now that he's on the payroll in a premium seat.
Everything Eli Manning has done to annoy fans (refusal to go to San Diego, refusal to play part time) -- has actually bolstered his reputation where it matters.
He's the two-time championship QB of the team that represents the capital of the world, and a sympathetic figure among his own fans and media on the way out.
Manning Inc. is basically pitch perfect with this stuff.
Quote:
Benching Eli stirred up a lot of support for Eli that didn't seem to be there prior
Can we stop talking about how Eli was benched? This was something concocted by the media. If you don't remember, go back and look at the stories. The Giants' plan was to have him START every game at the end of a lost season and have the back-up come in for the second half to get experience and allow the team to evaluate him. That's just smart, something most teams do with young players when the season is lost. But most Giants coaches have refused to do it. Eli balked at the idea, saying what if the game is close at halftime? Go look at how close the games were at halftime in the previous games.
In the end, it was Eli who decided he didn't want to start under that scenario. Eli benched himself. I love Eli, but HE quit on the team, the coaches didn't bench him. If any other top quarterback had done that, Giants fans would have been blasting them. But the media loved Eli, so he got a pass.
Eli had his critics, but to suggest he ever quit on the team is completely off the mark.
Quote:
In comment 15378361 Jerz44 said:
Quote:
Benching Eli stirred up a lot of support for Eli that didn't seem to be there prior
Can we stop talking about how Eli was benched? This was something concocted by the media. If you don't remember, go back and look at the stories. The Giants' plan was to have him START every game at the end of a lost season and have the back-up come in for the second half to get experience and allow the team to evaluate him. That's just smart, something most teams do with young players when the season is lost. But most Giants coaches have refused to do it. Eli balked at the idea, saying what if the game is close at halftime? Go look at how close the games were at halftime in the previous games.
In the end, it was Eli who decided he didn't want to start under that scenario. Eli benched himself. I love Eli, but HE quit on the team, the coaches didn't bench him. If any other top quarterback had done that, Giants fans would have been blasting them. But the media loved Eli, so he got a pass.
I have read a lot of funny posts and misinformed posts on this site - but this certainly takes the cake.
You really think its a good idea of putting a guy in in the middle of the game right after half time is a good idea? You think taking a guy out who may have been playing great 1st half is going to be respected by the team. Those guys are out there to play and win every game. Fans may not understand that but they dont tank.
Taking someone out mid game to evaluate another player is stupid. Eli gave the player the opportunity to play the whole game. And plus it was was for Geno Smith of all people, not the rookie.
If the Reese/McAdoo said - they would insert Webb if a game got out of hand, fine. Thats understandable. But can you imagine telling a professional who has 220 yards and 3 TDs at half and the team is winning that it is time to hit the bench - you dont think people would be pissed?
Takes the cake? Really? First, the main purpose of the post was the misguided belief that Eli was benched. He was not benched. You even admit that by saying Eli GAVE the backup the chance to play the whole game.
But at the time the season was over. Wins meant nothing. Zero. There was absolutely no reason not to give younger guys lots of playing time. It makes a lot of sense. Every team in the NFL does it when the chance at the playoffs is lost, they try to develop players. But the Giants have always disdained the practice and it is incredibly frustrating. And I guess only the veterans on the Giants team would be upset? If you can get experience for young guys who the team will be relying on the next year, who cares what some vet who won't be around thinks about the coaches (who, by the way, we also knew at the time wouldn't be around). And with a QB more than any other position you can certainly make the argument that letting the backup start a half rather than come in in the middle of a quarter makes sense as far as preparation.
You're probably too young to remember Parcells' first year. They were 3-12-1. And one big reason was a ton of injuries to veterans. Parcells almost got fired. But lots of young guys got to play. And the next year that experience helped them make the playoffs.
And if you don't remember, it WASN'T Davis Webb, the rookie. It was Geno Smith.
Geno Smith!!! McAdoo should have been fired for that, not replacing Eli. Smith was a walking turnover, and any competent NFL coach would have laughed at the suggestion, but not dumbo, who wanted a excuse because he was trying to run Aaron Rodgers offense without Aaron!!!
Takes the cake? Really? First, the main purpose of the post was the misguided belief that Eli was benched. He was not benched. You even admit that by saying Eli GAVE the backup the chance to play the whole game.
But at the time the season was over. Wins meant nothing. Zero. There was absolutely no reason not to give younger guys lots of playing time. It makes a lot of sense. Every team in the NFL does it when the chance at the playoffs is lost, they try to develop players. But the Giants have always disdained the practice and it is incredibly frustrating. And I guess only the veterans on the Giants team would be upset? If you can get experience for young guys who the team will be relying on the next year, who cares what some vet who won't be around thinks about the coaches (who, by the way, we also knew at the time wouldn't be around). And with a QB more than any other position you can certainly make the argument that letting the backup start a half rather than come in in the middle of a quarter makes sense as far as preparation.
You're probably too young to remember Parcells' first year. They were 3-12-1. And one big reason was a ton of injuries to veterans. Parcells almost got fired. But lots of young guys got to play. And the next year that experience helped them make the playoffs.
Can you tell me any other veteran who sat on offense or defense when the decision was made to play young players? Was Landon Collins? Was JPP? Were any of the CBs told they would not play as much because they wanted some younger guys play?
And as mentioned in the post above me - it wasnt to play a young guy, it was to play a backup QB who was never good anywhere he went - so that idea was wrong.
Plus, yes he was benched. Eli told the coaches that he either wanted to play the whole game or not at all. He wanted to play but he told them to insert a player halfway through the game was also detrimental to THAT player as well. So the coaches made the decision to not play Eli the entire game and play a bad veteran who had no business starting.
Again - if you are going to take a look at other young players - please list all the players that were all asked to take a seat during the 2nd half of the games. I am sure the list will be quite short.
Eli was singled out by 2 men who knew their time was done and looked to find a scapegoat. Those two men are either currently out of football or took a major demotion and no longer coaching. Thats show how inept the situation was handled.
Quote:
Benching Eli stirred up a lot of support for Eli that didn't seem to be there prior
I think he was always a shoe in, just to many big time moments, longevity, and everything you want in a guy off the field. However I agree with the benching causing a lot of non-Giants fans to maybe take a little more notice.
Even those who had no problem with it and say Smith played a good game except for the fumble...Well, that is his history. He was a decent QB who made a habit of turning the ball over and often at very inopportune times.
I don't think he's first ballot but wouldn't surprise me either.
So do I.
:thumbup:
The principals started throwing around the idea “what do we have with the younger guys.” One element in that scenario is “let’s get more data on who Manning is by comparing how the alternatives fair in the same situation.”
It was a smart evaluation tool. Geno Smith performed about as well as Manning had been. They got the info — all things equal Manning was performing at fringe back-up level.
If Manning was buoying the team, you’d expect Smith would have been slaughtered under similar circumstances.
It’s too bad the Giants retained Manning two more years and let him get his ass kicked for another ~20 more games.
The principals started throwing around the idea “what do we have with the younger guys.” One element in that scenario is “let’s get more data on who Manning is by comparing how the alternatives fair in the same situation.”
It was a smart evaluation tool. Geno Smith performed about as well as Manning had been. They got the info — all things equal Manning was performing at fringe back-up level.
If Manning was buoying the team, you’d expect Smith would have been slaughtered under similar circumstances.
It’s too bad the Giants retained Manning two more years and let him get his ass kicked for another ~20 more games.
The principals started throwing around the idea “what do we have with the younger guys.” One element in that scenario is “let’s get more data on who Manning is by comparing how the alternatives fair in the same situation.”
It was a smart evaluation tool. Geno Smith performed about as well as Manning had been. They got the info — all things equal Manning was performing at fringe back-up level.
If Manning was buoying the team, you’d expect Smith would have been slaughtered under similar circumstances.
It’s too bad the Giants retained Manning two more years and let him get his ass kicked for another ~20 more games.
You can’t use a 1 game sample on a roster full of non-NFL players to determine what the problem is.
If you check the guys who played the last 6 games - what NFL players would you consider starter level? Shepard? JPP? Tomlinson? If that?!?
The only thing we know was that Jerry Reese was not fit to field a team and McAdoo was not equipped to coach in the NFL. Eli probably was done - but the only way to determine was to give NFL level talent around him which was not done.
If you check the guys who played the last 6 games - what NFL players would you consider starter level? Shepard? JPP? Tomlinson?
There’s really nothing left to debate — Eli Manning didn’t play winning football ever again. He was done.
And half of the Giants starters were regular starters subsequently.
Shepard, Flowers, Ellison, Engram, JPP, Snacks, Vernon, Kennard, Tomlinson, Collins, Goodson.
Quote:
You can’t use a 1 game sample on a roster full of non-NFL players to determine what the problem is.
If you check the guys who played the last 6 games - what NFL players would you consider starter level? Shepard? JPP? Tomlinson?
There’s really nothing left to debate — Eli Manning didn’t play winning football ever again. He was done.
And half of the Giants starters were regular starters subsequently.
Shepard, Flowers, Ellison, Engram, JPP, Snacks, Vernon, Kennard, Tomlinson, Collins, Goodson.
Starting for a team, especially bad ones, doesn’t make you a good or a starter level player. Ellison, Kennard, Engram, Vernon, Goodson and to an extent Collins are/were neither good nor starting level players iT the end of 2017 into 2018. And if flowers (who had to change positions cause he was so bad) hardly qualifies.
Quote:
You can’t use a 1 game sample on a roster full of non-NFL players to determine what the problem is.
If you check the guys who played the last 6 games - what NFL players would you consider starter level? Shepard? JPP? Tomlinson?
There’s really nothing left to debate — Eli Manning didn’t play winning football ever again. He was done.
And half of the Giants starters were regular starters subsequently.
Shepard, Flowers, Ellison, Engram, JPP, Snacks, Vernon, Kennard, Tomlinson, Collins, Goodson.
And my point isn’t to say Eli was the answer or future… just that Reese and mcadoo were looking for a scapegoats because they knew their ineptness was exposed and they would be gone. People underestimate those 2 more so than Mara are what set this franchise back.
Any other changes you want to make from your original question what NFL players would you consider starter level?
Quote:
Starting for a team, especially bad ones, doesn’t make you a good or a starter level player. Ellison, Kennard, Engram, Vernon, Goodson and to an extent Collins are/were neither good nor starting level players iT the end of 2017 into 2018. And if flowers (who had to change positions cause he was so bad) hardly qualifies.
Any other changes you want to make from your original question what NFL players would you consider starter level?
Never mind. You’re just another know it all. Why should the giants make any changes from this year when they have all starting level players, right? You don’t want t9 engage… you just want to raise your ego a few notches.
When you call Rhett Ellison a starting level NFL caliber player… you’re not serious about a discussion.
Quote:
In comment 15378953 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
Starting for a team, especially bad ones, doesn’t make you a good or a starter level player. Ellison, Kennard, Engram, Vernon, Goodson and to an extent Collins are/were neither good nor starting level players iT the end of 2017 into 2018. And if flowers (who had to change positions cause he was so bad) hardly qualifies.
Any other changes you want to make from your original question what NFL players would you consider starter level?
Never mind. You’re just another know it all. Why should the giants make any changes from this year when they have all starting level players, right? You don’t want t9 engage… you just want to raise your ego a few notches.
When you call Rhett Ellison a starting level NFL caliber player… you’re not serious about a discussion.
What was your BBI handle before this one?
Quote:
In comment 15378965 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15378953 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
Starting for a team, especially bad ones, doesn’t make you a good or a starter level player. Ellison, Kennard, Engram, Vernon, Goodson and to an extent Collins are/were neither good nor starting level players iT the end of 2017 into 2018. And if flowers (who had to change positions cause he was so bad) hardly qualifies.
Any other changes you want to make from your original question what NFL players would you consider starter level?
What was your BBI handle before this one?
Didn’t have 1, but thanks for your concern. New voices are frowned about here is the first thing I learned.
Quote:
In comment 15378971 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 15378965 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15378953 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
Starting for a team, especially bad ones, doesn’t make you a good or a starter level player. Ellison, Kennard, Engram, Vernon, Goodson and to an extent Collins are/were neither good nor starting level players iT the end of 2017 into 2018. And if flowers (who had to change positions cause he was so bad) hardly qualifies.
Any other changes you want to make from your original question what NFL players would you consider starter level?
What was your BBI handle before this one?
Didn’t have 1, but thanks for your concern. New voices are frowned about here is the first thing I learned.
That's literally the first defense every returning dupe uses, but welcome back whoever you are.
Besides denying the Pats a perfect season, you have the Tyree catch, the Manningham catch, the freezing cold NFC title game against Favre, the 49ers NFC title game, the hail mary at the end of the half against the Packers in the playoffs.
Plain and simple. If THAT is the barometer that some of these voters go by then he should be a lock.
Nobody did "clutch" like Eli.
I would in the same conversation as Joe Montana and Roger Staubach when it came to clutch.
AAAAAND ... if Buress does not shoot himself in the leg, Eli might have a 3rd ring. We were having a great season that completely derailed after "big dummy" thought he was a gangster.
I watched his review of the Manning brothers Monday Night Football (week 1) on "youtube and he referred to Eli (and Payton) as HOF quarterbacks ... and even apologized after saying ...
Yeah, I said it ... I am sorry but, Eli deserves to be in the hall of fame.
That quote is not verbatim ... but, almost.
“And you knew on that Friday to pay attention,” Cruz said, drawing agreement from Manningham. “If he’s circling you. . . Nobody made those adjustments better than Eli. Nobody saw that blitz 0 better than Eli, for real. He knew when it was coming, he knew the tendencies, he called it out, he got us to the right play every single time.”
Eli was the man - ( New Window )