He can't run like Daniel, but he's big, can make every throw. Accurate when he gets pass pro, but terrible throwing on the run. Sometimes makes boneheaded mistakes.
Would you be ok with a Goff ceiling? Can the Giants build a winning team with this ceiling?
I think you can build a winning team around him - the Rams made it all the way to the Super Bowl.
THe problem becomes are you willing to pay a guy Goff money to get you up the hill, but not over it.
We really need some consistency from this whole team, especially to the blocking and running game before we fully know what we have with Jones. IMHO.
Goff is a statue and Jones has proven that he is a real threat to run
The Giants are just starting to utilize his strengths, throwing deep, RPO, and play action.
I don't know why it has taken the Giants so long to play to his strengths but I am looking forward to seeing the results
I think that he has the potential to be a real dual threat and there are only a few QBs that have that ability
I think you can build a winning team around him - the Rams made it all the way to the Super Bowl.
THe problem becomes are you willing to pay a guy Goff money to get you up the hill, but not over it.
I think Daniel Jones has a grit that Goff doesn't have, having played in pass happy California.
I'm hoping Josh Allen is the comp for Jones and he makes that kind of leap this.
likely a fools hope though
That said until this year i've only ever seen Goff on a usually stacked offense (along with a good to great D) and Jones has been a Giant. If the 2 QB's switched teams I suspect this conversation changes a lot.
Overpayment of middling QBs is one of the biggest areas that teams need to self-correct on, IMO.
This too. He did get that after the Super Bowl IIRC so not likely a scenario we will be in. When pay say "are we really going to pay Jones $30m a year" I always laugh - why exactly will he be making that without earning it? All the big money QB's have earned it - whether it was a wise investment is another story.
Goff is a ceiling?
No.
But still not good
I agree. Never thought much of Goff. Always thought he was the recipient of a talented team. Not that Goff is bad - just overrated.
I'm not sure what Jones is either. Until he leads them on a game winning drive, I will continue to hold judgement. Until his last two years, when Eli got the ball in his hands with 2 minutes left, you always felt the Giants had a better than average chance to pull it out. I have not seen that with Jones, yet.
Giants coaches love to talk about how smart Jones is, and if he's going to be a successful quarterback, pre-snap processing and using his intelligence is going to be a big part of it.
Herbert makes very nice throws. Still makes bad decisions. I can see his potential.
While he may not be Goff and Tannehill due to his straight line speed, he's certainly doesn't move like Jackson or Murray, he doesn't throw on the run like Wilson or Allen, nor does he have the arm strength of Rogers or Hurbert, nor does he have the processing skills of Brady or Dak.
Come to think of it - I don't know if there's even an historic QB I can think of that really has the same unique set of QB traits that Jones has. Which makes me nervous.
I have my concerns about some of DJ's bad habits, but I don't think he will wilt under pressure like Goff does.
In terms of actual play style, Tannehill and Mariota are the 2 closest comps. Good straight line speed, mixed bag throwing the ball.
I have my concerns about some of DJ's bad habits, but I don't think he will wilt under pressure like Goff does.
Melt? Jones was fantastic all game. The ball was taken out of his hands with the game on the line. That wasn't his fault. It was the coaching staff
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Did everyone see his 2nd half last night? That is the story of Goff's career, look great until things get tight, then melt.
I have my concerns about some of DJ's bad habits, but I don't think he will wilt under pressure like Goff does.
Melt? Jones was fantastic all game. The ball was taken out of his hands with the game on the line. That wasn't his fault. It was the coaching staff
Reading comprehension problems, KD? By melt, I was referring to Goff. I specifically said I DIDN'T think Jones would wilt like Goff does.
We've seen what the jump in rushes has done for Jones' game, especially compared to last year. If he's averaging 8 attempts per game at 7-8 ypc, that's a substantial difference and should continue to open up the passing game.
Year 3 is a huge test for Jones and this offense. If they commit to letting Jones run I expect much better QB play.
They should've used his legs more early in his career
Nothing wrong with being a system QB if you have to make it work, but the second he got expensive they moved on quick.
Don't expect that to be as consistently successful going forward as teams will be preparing for DJ running more. With that said though, it is incumbent on Garrett to put some added twists into the gameplan that can take advantage of teams overplaying for any designed DJ runs.
Hopefully, Jones can stay free from any big hits, and he certainly needs to learn how to slide better and get down. 17 game season.
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In comment 15378429 Section331 said:
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Did everyone see his 2nd half last night? That is the story of Goff's career, look great until things get tight, then melt.
I have my concerns about some of DJ's bad habits, but I don't think he will wilt under pressure like Goff does.
Melt? Jones was fantastic all game. The ball was taken out of his hands with the game on the line. That wasn't his fault. It was the coaching staff
Reading comprehension problems, KD? By melt, I was referring to Goff. I specifically said I DIDN'T think Jones would wilt like Goff does.
My apologies. Have a newborn, so very little sleep. I see what you were saying now.
We've seen what the jump in rushes has done for Jones' game, especially compared to last year. If he's averaging 8 attempts per game at 7-8 ypc, that's a substantial difference and should continue to open up the passing game.
Year 3 is a huge test for Jones and this offense. If they commit to letting Jones run I expect much better QB play.
I've got two problems with the RPO heavy game plan:
1.) Jones gets hurt. He's played two seasons in the NFL and missed time in both of them with leg injuries. That's not good if designed QB run is a big part of you game plan week in and week out.
2.) I can't think of an NFL RPO offense that has long sustained success. Teams will sprinkle it in, but it is usually not the focal point of the offense.
I'm interested in seeing it...but I'm not sure it will be successful in the long run.
Don't expect that to be as consistently successful going forward as teams will be preparing for DJ running more. With that said though, it is incumbent on Garrett to put some added twists into the gameplan that can take advantage of teams overplaying for any designed DJ runs.
Hopefully, Jones can stay free from any big hits, and he certainly needs to learn how to slide better and get down. 17 game season.
I agree. I suspect that teams won't be as surprised by Jones running as Washington was. Despite his speed, he has little elusiveness. Hopefully the threat of the run helps open up the passing game, because I don't think he's going to continue to see so much open field in front of him.
Don't expect that to be as consistently successful going forward as teams will be preparing for DJ running more. With that said though, it is incumbent on Garrett to put some added twists into the gameplan that can take advantage of teams overplaying for any designed DJ runs.
Hopefully, Jones can stay free from any big hits, and he certainly needs to learn how to slide better and get down. 17 game season.
Exactly. IMO, the game against the Skins was well-coached in terms of the play-calling for Jones, with a huge caveat, the last 2 1/2 minutes. They played to Jones' strength and utilized his running ability quite well. I am still not pleased with how they are utilizing Barkley, as he is a player who needs to be put in space properly. They are not doing that. They run him like he is Ron Dayne.
Last 2 1/2 minutes coaches on both O and D were coaching way too conservatively. Being satisfied with a FG to go up by less than a FG with plenty of time left, with a defense that was not playing well. And on D, playing prevent D, when all the opponent needed was a FG.
Offensive player of the week to that statue of a QB in Motown. The disrespect.
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the Tannehill comp seems light - he's a career 5 YPC runner at under 15 yards per game. Its been more pronounced/effective when paired with Henry but still, not really much output.
We've seen what the jump in rushes has done for Jones' game, especially compared to last year. If he's averaging 8 attempts per game at 7-8 ypc, that's a substantial difference and should continue to open up the passing game.
Year 3 is a huge test for Jones and this offense. If they commit to letting Jones run I expect much better QB play.
I've got two problems with the RPO heavy game plan:
1.) Jones gets hurt. He's played two seasons in the NFL and missed time in both of them with leg injuries. That's not good if designed QB run is a big part of you game plan week in and week out.
2.) I can't think of an NFL RPO offense that has long sustained success. Teams will sprinkle it in, but it is usually not the focal point of the offense.
I'm interested in seeing it...but I'm not sure it will be successful in the long run.
Not worried about 1, we aren’t winning playing it safe and without the threat of running. So the injury risk is just as risky as not allowing him to run much.
So it comes down to 2 and how sustainable it is. I don’t think 7 attempts per game is commuting to the RPO full time. A balance needs to be struck.
Don't expect that to be as consistently successful going forward as teams will be preparing for DJ running more. With that said though, it is incumbent on Garrett to put some added twists into the gameplan that can take advantage of teams overplaying for any designed DJ runs.
Hopefully, Jones can stay free from any big hits, and he certainly needs to learn how to slide better and get down. 17 game season.
Don't worry I am sure most defensive cos don't give a rat's ass about Jones with the occasional run that fools a defense. They are more than happy to let him throw his dink a dunk passes to a slot receiver like slayton and hopefully turn the ball over a bunch of times.
Again, I have no idea what Jones will be over his career, but you should look at the 2011 starters again. They were much, much better than anything Jones has had to work with.
Not to mention that in 2011 Manning completed 61 percent, threw 16 INTs with 29 TDs and had a QB rating of 92 and lost 8 fumbles in probably his second best year. Eli's first full season (2005) he completed 53 percent, threw 17 INTs (with 24 TDs) and 9 fumbles, with, again, a much, much better team around him.
In Jones' rookie year he completed 62 percent of his passes (2011 Eli 61), had 12 INTs (Eli 16) with 24 TDs (Eli 29), and a QB rating of 88 (Eli 92) in four fewer games. His 19 fumbles was the only thing that stands out compared to Eli's 2011 (who had the much better team around him). Last year the only stat that differs from Manning's second year is the 11 TDs, and that can at least partially be attributed to injuries to receivers and Garrett's conservative play calling, especially in the red zone, not to mention the mess Covid made of the offseason while eliminating preseason games (which the OL really needed).
In 2011 Eli had Nicks, Cruz and Manningham to throw to, and Bradshaw and Jacobs to hand the ball to. Last year, after Shepard got hurt in game 3, Jones had an injured Slayton, a terrible Tate and guys named Pettis, Mack, Austin, Bachman and Board to throw to. None of them cracks the top three in 2011. After the first quarter of game 2, Jones could hand the ball to Gallman, Freeman, Lewis and Morris. Any of them beating out Bradshaw or Jacobs? We won't even talk about the OL. And many, if not most, here would take Ballard over Engram at TE.
To use Eli in 2011 as an example of a top tier QB not needing good people around him is misguided at best. Jones isn't Mahomes or Brady, and never will be, but I'm amazed by the hatred some have for him at this point.
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Goff needs everything perfect. Top tiered franchise QB’s don’t need a perfect team to in order to win. See Eli in 2011 as exhibit A.
Again, I have no idea what Jones will be over his career, but you should look at the 2011 starters again. They were much, much better than anything Jones has had to work with.
Not to mention that in 2011 Manning completed 61 percent, threw 16 INTs with 29 TDs and had a QB rating of 92 and lost 8 fumbles in probably his second best year. Eli's first full season (2005) he completed 53 percent, threw 17 INTs (with 24 TDs) and 9 fumbles, with, again, a much, much better team around him.
In Jones' rookie year he completed 62 percent of his passes (2011 Eli 61), had 12 INTs (Eli 16) with 24 TDs (Eli 29), and a QB rating of 88 (Eli 92) in four fewer games. His 19 fumbles was the only thing that stands out compared to Eli's 2011 (who had the much better team around him). Last year the only stat that differs from Manning's second year is the 11 TDs, and that can at least partially be attributed to injuries to receivers and Garrett's conservative play calling, especially in the red zone, not to mention the mess Covid made of the offseason while eliminating preseason games (which the OL really needed).
In 2011 Eli had Nicks, Cruz and Manningham to throw to, and Bradshaw and Jacobs to hand the ball to. Last year, after Shepard got hurt in game 3, Jones had an injured Slayton, a terrible Tate and guys named Pettis, Mack, Austin, Bachman and Board to throw to. None of them cracks the top three in 2011. After the first quarter of game 2, Jones could hand the ball to Gallman, Freeman, Lewis and Morris. Any of them beating out Bradshaw or Jacobs? We won't even talk about the OL. And many, if not most, here would take Ballard over Engram at TE.
To use Eli in 2011 as an example of a top tier QB not needing good people around him is misguided at best. Jones isn't Mahomes or Brady, and never will be, but I'm amazed by the hatred some have for him at this point.
I'm amazaed at the hatred most people still have for Eli. The Giants were by no means a talented star studded team in 2011. Jacobs was a back-up to tiki who got cut after their SB win and was a 3rd string back for the 49ers. Does that really compare to a generation RB? Galladay isn't a good receiver? It's amazing to me that people still make these Eli comparisons with stats. Eli was 6th in yards and TDs throughout most of his career and I could even argue that is where he was as a QB over all in the league or at least a top 10 QB.
Is jones really a top 10 QB? Realistically he is more of a bottom 10 QB. I have yet to see him do anything that involves some finesse. It is like unless they run the hurry up and throw like 10 consecutive short passes with the opposing teams D gassed; they cannot score.
My apologies. Have a newborn, so very little sleep. I see what you were saying now.
No worries, congrats on the baby!
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Goff needs everything perfect. Top tiered franchise QB’s don’t need a perfect team to in order to win. See Eli in 2011 as exhibit A.
Again, I have no idea what Jones will be over his career, but you should look at the 2011 starters again. They were much, much better than anything Jones has had to work with.
Not to mention that in 2011 Manning completed 61 percent, threw 16 INTs with 29 TDs and had a QB rating of 92 and lost 8 fumbles in probably his second best year. Eli's first full season (2005) he completed 53 percent, threw 17 INTs (with 24 TDs) and 9 fumbles, with, again, a much, much better team around him.
In Jones' rookie year he completed 62 percent of his passes (2011 Eli 61), had 12 INTs (Eli 16) with 24 TDs (Eli 29), and a QB rating of 88 (Eli 92) in four fewer games. His 19 fumbles was the only thing that stands out compared to Eli's 2011 (who had the much better team around him). Last year the only stat that differs from Manning's second year is the 11 TDs, and that can at least partially be attributed to injuries to receivers and Garrett's conservative play calling, especially in the red zone, not to mention the mess Covid made of the offseason while eliminating preseason games (which the OL really needed).
In 2011 Eli had Nicks, Cruz and Manningham to throw to, and Bradshaw and Jacobs to hand the ball to. Last year, after Shepard got hurt in game 3, Jones had an injured Slayton, a terrible Tate and guys named Pettis, Mack, Austin, Bachman and Board to throw to. None of them cracks the top three in 2011. After the first quarter of game 2, Jones could hand the ball to Gallman, Freeman, Lewis and Morris. Any of them beating out Bradshaw or Jacobs? We won't even talk about the OL. And many, if not most, here would take Ballard over Engram at TE.
To use Eli in 2011 as an example of a top tier QB not needing good people around him is misguided at best. Jones isn't Mahomes or Brady, and never will be, but I'm amazed by the hatred some have for him at this point.
Jones had less picks in less games.
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In comment 15378388 The_Boss said:
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Goff needs everything perfect. Top tiered franchise QB’s don’t need a perfect team to in order to win. See Eli in 2011 as exhibit A.
Again, I have no idea what Jones will be over his career, but you should look at the 2011 starters again. They were much, much better than anything Jones has had to work with.
Not to mention that in 2011 Manning completed 61 percent, threw 16 INTs with 29 TDs and had a QB rating of 92 and lost 8 fumbles in probably his second best year. Eli's first full season (2005) he completed 53 percent, threw 17 INTs (with 24 TDs) and 9 fumbles, with, again, a much, much better team around him.
In Jones' rookie year he completed 62 percent of his passes (2011 Eli 61), had 12 INTs (Eli 16) with 24 TDs (Eli 29), and a QB rating of 88 (Eli 92) in four fewer games. His 19 fumbles was the only thing that stands out compared to Eli's 2011 (who had the much better team around him). Last year the only stat that differs from Manning's second year is the 11 TDs, and that can at least partially be attributed to injuries to receivers and Garrett's conservative play calling, especially in the red zone, not to mention the mess Covid made of the offseason while eliminating preseason games (which the OL really needed).
In 2011 Eli had Nicks, Cruz and Manningham to throw to, and Bradshaw and Jacobs to hand the ball to. Last year, after Shepard got hurt in game 3, Jones had an injured Slayton, a terrible Tate and guys named Pettis, Mack, Austin, Bachman and Board to throw to. None of them cracks the top three in 2011. After the first quarter of game 2, Jones could hand the ball to Gallman, Freeman, Lewis and Morris. Any of them beating out Bradshaw or Jacobs? We won't even talk about the OL. And many, if not most, here would take Ballard over Engram at TE.
To use Eli in 2011 as an example of a top tier QB not needing good people around him is misguided at best. Jones isn't Mahomes or Brady, and never will be, but I'm amazed by the hatred some have for him at this point.
I'm amazaed at the hatred most people still have for Eli. The Giants were by no means a talented star studded team in 2011. Jacobs was a back-up to tiki who got cut after their SB win and was a 3rd string back for the 49ers. Does that really compare to a generation RB? Galladay isn't a good receiver? It's amazing to me that people still make these Eli comparisons with stats. Eli was 6th in yards and TDs throughout most of his career and I could even argue that is where he was as a QB over all in the league or at least a top 10 QB.
Is jones really a top 10 QB? Realistically he is more of a bottom 10 QB. I have yet to see him do anything that involves some finesse. It is like unless they run the hurry up and throw like 10 consecutive short passes with the opposing teams D gassed; they cannot score.
You both really see "hatred" in either case (Eli and Jones)? Seems a bit extreme.
It says alot that the Rams cut bait quickly after giving him the monster extension. McVay knows QB play and how to design an offense.
You both really see "hatred" in either case (Eli and Jones)? Seems a bit extreme.
Maybe so but it just seems to me people here are personally invested in the Jones thing. A guy who clearly sucks. I know Jones jerseys sold like hotcakes after that first TB game he played. It is like once you have been an armchair QB bashing Eli for so long and lay out 75 dollars for a Jones jersey there is no going back.
McVay tried to scheme for him, but there's only so much you can do with a one-read QB that folds under pressure.
I pray that Jones is more than that.
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asses with the opposing teams D gassed; they cannot score.
You both really see "hatred" in either case (Eli and Jones)? Seems a bit extreme.
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Maybe so but it just seems to me people here are personally invested in the Jones thing. A guy who clearly sucks. I know Jones jerseys sold like hotcakes after that first TB game he played. It is like once you have been an armchair QB bashing Eli for so long and lay out 75 dollars for a Jones jersey there is no going back.
Most people didn't/don't have hatred for Eli. Jones doesn't clearly suck. And not certain what the personally invested comment really is supposed to mean.
It is like once you are on record and saying Eli is the problem for so long. And once someone else comes in and has a great game against Tamp bay. You think you were right all along. Ego comes into play. 3 years later and the Giants still sucking means Eli is not the problem. Jones is still in development mode at best ; in over his head at worst. He is a good back up at this point.
It is like once you are on record and saying Eli is the problem for so long. And once someone else comes in and has a great game against Tamp bay. You think you were right all along. Ego comes into play. 3 years later and the Giants still sucking means Eli is not the problem. Jones is still in development mode at best ; in over his head at worst. He is a good back up at this point.
That makes sense..."Eli is not the problem" Eli who had an enormous salary with a huge cap hit and wasn't winning wasn't the problem. Daniel Jones, who came in and played just as well, if not better, on a rookie contract is the problem. Logic.