For Jones, but I am not a fan of pff. I certainly do not want to be one of those fans that bash it when their data does not agree with me; while accepting their data when it does agree with me.
I like what they are trying to do. But I think some of their analysis and conclusions seem illogical and not all that helpful.
But there's no denying Jones had a great week and belongs in the conversation for best of the week.
If he runs for 95 yards every week he's going to have 1600 yards. If he does that, the Giants should win their share of games and Jones will have taken a big step toward silencing doubters.
Now, he needs to repeat the performance consistently and against teams besides WFT. You can win with these performances and we need more of them before thinking second contract.
Yes plus he could have had another running TD except for a questionable hold call penalty and another throwing TD if Slayton catches that ball in the end zone. Hope Garrett continues to use him like he did against WFT.
The 24-year-old led all quarterbacks in Week 2 in total completions on passes thrown 10+ yards downfield with 11. As PFF notes, Jones "also led the position in positively graded throws and recorded the week's lowest negatively graded throw rate." The analytics site did not track the third-year quarterback for a single turnover-worthy play all game.
People online
really need a new argument than "who cares we're 0-2", how is that supposed to minimize the QB's performance. He doesn't play defense or special teams
Pay no attention to the expert's call on DJ-Slayton incomplete pass!
And for an objective 'look', look at the photo atop Sy's review, Slayton's two handed miss.
Yet some guys want to dig in their well known agenda and say it was primarily a DJ overthrow, with at DT in his maw.
It was a minor overthrow. It's okay. Having a defender in his face is an acceptable reason for an overthrow.
The fact that we have to conduct a congressional inquiry on who to blame, and try to calculate if Slayton slowed down on his route at some point like the zapruder film is wildly hilarious.
I was saying it in jest. I thought he looked great, and hope he builds off of it. He's been the best player, well along with Gano, so far through two games. But feels like no matter what he does, it's never enough for some people.
I was saying it in jest. I thought he looked great, and hope he builds off of it. He's been the best player, well along with Gano, so far through two games. But feels like no matter what he does, it's never enough for some people.
No worries...
...my reply was to the group in general.
I hate that the team has been struggling but I like DJ.
Also, I don't consider pre-DJ football to be relevant with regards to enjoying the games.
for less than 20 TDs this year. At some point, he's going to have to show he can lead the Giants down the field and THROW TDs. I like that he's running...I'd like to see him run even more. There's a reason our offense sucks in the redzone...teams play zone, stop the QB runs, and DJ can't make plays with his arm. He's really only a dual threat in the middle of the field, with more space, because he's a straight line runner...he's no Lamar or Murray.
for less than 20 TDs this year. At some point, he's going to have to show he can lead the Giants down the field and THROW TDs. I like that he's running...I'd like to see him run even more. There's a reason our offense sucks in the redzone...teams play zone, stop the QB runs, and DJ can't make plays with his arm. He's really only a dual threat in the middle of the field, with more space, because he's a straight line runner...he's no Lamar or Murray.
It will help if they can actually scheme receivers open like other teams do. The Giants just run stick routs and no one gets open. I'd argue they should do more designed runs in the red zone.
RE: Pay no attention to expert's call on DJ-Slayton incomplete pass!
If he runs for 95 yards every week he's going to have 1600 yards. If he does that, the Giants should win their share of games and Jones will have taken a big step toward silencing doubters.
if Garrett would call the plays that will allow him to use his legs, then this is not out of reach. It also will give the defense fits trying to figure out what to focus on.
To NOT use Jones' legs when it is such an asset is simply irresponsible. Imagine if Jackson was asked to simply be a pocket passer.
for less than 20 TDs this year. At some point, he's going to have to show he can lead the Giants down the field and THROW TDs. I like that he's running...I'd like to see him run even more. There's a reason our offense sucks in the redzone...teams play zone, stop the QB runs, and DJ can't make plays with his arm. He's really only a dual threat in the middle of the field, with more space, because he's a straight line runner...he's no Lamar or Murray.
It will help if they can actually scheme receivers open like other teams do. The Giants just run stick routs and no one gets open. I'd argue they should do more designed runs in the red zone.
They absolutely should, it's about making them respect DJ as a runner. He isn't going to beat anyone 1 v 1 unless its around the corner, but they need to account for him. The last thing we should be doing is lining up under center with this OL without Gates and Lemiuex. And we def don't want DJ turning his back to the defense in PA down there, unnecessarily complicating things for the hope of a wide open play. Why would any team respect it though considering we can't push anyone off the ball as thigns stand?
Spread them out, give Saquon space, make them respect the QB in the run game, and if things get dicey use Rudolph or Golladay for 50/50 balls. I thought we were going to be really good down there, but that's when Lemiux and Gates were still playing. We still have the pieces to be a decent redzone offense, the question is can Garrett change his stripes? He was good Thursday, but even before the last drive, he reverted to the power game often down there. Is that coming from Judge? Maybe, considering what we've seen.
If he runs for 95 yards every week he's going to have 1600 yards. If he does that, the Giants should win their share of games and Jones will have taken a big step toward silencing doubters.
Serious?
RE: Nobody can argue that Jones played well on Thursday
If he runs for 95 yards every week he's going to have 1600 yards. If he does that, the Giants should win their share of games and Jones will have taken a big step toward silencing doubters.
Lots of bad takes on that Slayton thread. But this Christian guy ended up pretty right : )
Quote:
...
christian : 9/14/2020 10:21 pm : link
Would love for the Giants to have a big, long playmaker opposite of Slayton and Shepard in the slot.
I have no love lost for Tate, and I’ll give him his props for his production last year, but my goodness I hope the Giants aren’t paying him 10M next year.
there was a lot of chatter about him being a #1 WR. Link - ( New Window )
There’s like 2 people on that thread saying he was a number 1 WR and everyone else saying pump the brakes. Slayton is what he is, good value for the 5th round. He’s a complimentary number 3 deep threat that plays on the outside. He actually does compliment Shep well. I hoped he took that next step last year, but he never did and results are not promising. Guys just don’t wake up one day and become solid hands catchers that make contested catches.
Although I do think it's really valuable to look at old takes in all walks of life.
I know I have some posts in the archives going nuts about passing on Winston Justice, wanting Dewayne White over Osi, probably Ciatrick Faison over Jacobs. I think it's great to look at that stuff and try to learn from it.
There was also a thread about Kerry Washington possibly being a #1 WR and I don't even remember who that is.
but that was after one game, 2020. Slayton did look terrific but then lost it.
Diggs was awesome last year and is a true #1. It also took him 3-4 years to get there.
No one can sit here and predict with certainty which so so young player turns into a star. If you could, you wouldn't be working a 9-5 job.
I still think Slayton can be a true star WR but it's a projection. He's looking more and more like a manningham type, which is fine, but no one knows what's in this guy's future.
Although I do think it's really valuable to look at old takes in all walks of life.
I know I have some posts in the archives going nuts about passing on Winston Justice, wanting Dewayne White over Osi, probably Ciatrick Faison over Jacobs. I think it's great to look at that stuff and try to learn from it.
There was also a thread about Kerry Washington possibly being a #1 WR and I don't even remember who that is.
I agree and why I think it’s silly to jump to conclusions about this team yet. There’s people here that are convinced this team is a bottom dweller. Based on what? Week 1 playing a very good team being ill prepared and week 2 where we lost on a bad call and beat ourselves on the road more with bad coaching than they won it? Week 3 was always the key week early in the season. Bad overall team with weak defense at home. This is the most important game of Judges career IMO. Bucs offense put up 35, Eagles 30, let’s see DJ and the offense in this spot. This reeks of get right game for a lot of players. The Falcons are what we were in 2017.
the Giants saw the need for an upgrade at the #1 WR spot. They were really locked in on and overpaid significantly for KG, but I think it will pay off. Slayton is, as christian pointed out, most likely a complimentary WR who's had some chemistry with DJ but can always be counted on to disappear for stretches, including a handful of zero plays.
Now, wtf did they draft Toney when they already had Shep.
the Giants saw the need for an upgrade at the #1 WR spot. They were really locked in on and overpaid significantly for KG, but I think it will pay off. Slayton is, as christian pointed out, most likely a complimentary WR who's had some chemistry with DJ but can always be counted on to disappear for stretches, including a handful of zero plays.
Now, wtf did they draft Toney when they already had Shep.
It's early, but the Toney pick struck me as one that would either make a lot of people looked really bad, or make them look really good. I didn't have a problem with adding another offensive skill player in round 1, shit I don't care what position they draft round 1, just draft a player that can play.... And he we are. But again it's stupid early.
It just almost seems like the Giants out think themselves at times. Like they wanted to be more right about Toney than just making the logical pick. OF all times, they couldn't really afford a weirdo project in round 1. They needed a starter.
it points back to the self-scouting I always talk about with NYG. They've been more willing to pull the plug and make changes under DG, but their personnel choices continue to fall short.
It's hard to argue with trading down and gaining an extra #1 pick. But, I hated the Toney pick. I think they got caught with their pants down after other targets were picked between #11-19.
There’s a lot of things you can do with him, both in the backfield, and outside when Saquon is in backfield. It’s just going to take time, especially because he missed so much time. Can’t just throw a college WR that had minimal snaps in backfield in college at NFL level.
Once teams adjust to read option and respecting DJ we can easily throw RPO out there and set him up for huge YAC plays 1 v 1.
Now, wtf did they draft Toney when they already had Shep.
Reflecting on the Toney pick, it seems he was a classic luxury pick. A project. If you were a team with a lot of parts in place, he could have been worth the gamble later in the round. We were in no way in that luxury zone...
Meanwhile, if we really wanted to go project, Odafe Oweh would have fit that bill so much better. Great athlete - who tested great when we were at his workout - and at a position of need. He looked very good Sunday night against KC.
Now, I didn't like Oweh's piss poor production at PSU, but it was hard to argue the raw skills.
It's hard to argue with trading down and gaining an extra #1 pick. But, I hated the Toney pick. I think they got caught with their pants down after other targets were picked between #11-19.
That’s my view as well. I think the players in the 20 area were deprioritized and underscouted. Assuming Toney will be as escapable in the NFL as in college is a major risk and I doubt that the extra yards generated by this escapability are enough to justify a #1 pick even if the skills are translatable. There’s a reason possession WRs rarely go in the 1st. That’s before we get to the off-field issues.
Christian Darrisaw has been injured and so really hasn’t got off the ground yet but if he turns into a very good player, the Giants decision will look even more suspect.
Although I do think it's really valuable to look at old takes in all walks of life.
I know I have some posts in the archives going nuts about passing on Winston Justice, wanting Dewayne White over Osi, probably Ciatrick Faison over Jacobs. I think it's great to look at that stuff and try to learn from it.
There was also a thread about Kerry Washington possibly being a #1 WR and I don't even remember who that is.
No, that thread is great. Just leave out names to protect the innocent
"Slayton is absolutely a legit #1.
And for that matter, compare Julio Jones rookie stats with Slayton's. Not that much different."
PFF should watch Kurt Warner's video and reconsider
Although I do think it's really valuable to look at old takes in all walks of life.
I know I have some posts in the archives going nuts about passing on Winston Justice, wanting Dewayne White over Osi, probably Ciatrick Faison over Jacobs. I think it's great to look at that stuff and try to learn from it.
There was also a thread about Kerry Washington possibly being a #1 WR and I don't even remember who that is.
No, that thread is great. Just leave out names to protect the innocent
"Slayton is absolutely a legit #1.
And for that matter, compare Julio Jones rookie stats with Slayton's. Not that much different."
Yeah I kind of want to scrub my name from existence...WTF was I thinking that we'd laugh the Bills off the phone if they offered Diggs(week 1 last year to be fair) for Slayton. Cmon man.
What I meant to say was Diggs was not Diggs until year 2-3 or so.
At least you acknowledge it - that's more than you get from most people.
At least you acknowledge it - that's more than you get from most people.
D, I do it too much the way it is.
But there's no denying Jones had a great week and belongs in the conversation for best of the week.
If he runs for 95 yards every week he's going to have 1600 yards. If he does that, the Giants should win their share of games and Jones will have taken a big step toward silencing doubters.
Yes plus he could have had another running TD except for a questionable hold call penalty and another throwing TD if Slayton catches that ball in the end zone. Hope Garrett continues to use him like he did against WFT.
The ball hit TWO hands. Stop the BS....
really need a new argument than "who cares we're 0-2", how is that supposed to minimize the QB's performance. He doesn't play defense or special teams
And for an objective 'look', look at the photo atop Sy's review, Slayton's two handed miss.
Yet some guys want to dig in their well known agenda and say it was primarily a DJ overthrow, with at DT in his maw.
And for an objective 'look', look at the photo atop Sy's review, Slayton's two handed miss.
Yet some guys want to dig in their well known agenda and say it was primarily a DJ overthrow, with at DT in his maw.
If you watch the play, Ionnidis was also in DJs face when he threw it, due to a missed block by Hernandez! WR has to catch that.
And for an objective 'look', look at the photo atop Sy's review, Slayton's two handed miss.
Yet some guys want to dig in their well known agenda and say it was primarily a DJ overthrow, with at DT in his maw.
It was a minor overthrow. It's okay. Having a defender in his face is an acceptable reason for an overthrow.
The fact that we have to conduct a congressional inquiry on who to blame, and try to calculate if Slayton slowed down on his route at some point like the zapruder film is wildly hilarious.
DJ put the ball on the WR.
DJ put the ball on the WR.
I was saying it in jest. I thought he looked great, and hope he builds off of it. He's been the best player, well along with Gano, so far through two games. But feels like no matter what he does, it's never enough for some people.
Quote:
...not even a hair overthrow.
DJ put the ball on the WR.
I was saying it in jest. I thought he looked great, and hope he builds off of it. He's been the best player, well along with Gano, so far through two games. But feels like no matter what he does, it's never enough for some people.
...my reply was to the group in general.
I hate that the team has been struggling but I like DJ.
Also, I don't consider pre-DJ football to be relevant with regards to enjoying the games.
It will help if they can actually scheme receivers open like other teams do. The Giants just run stick routs and no one gets open. I'd argue they should do more designed runs in the red zone.
As JonC said, now let's see it more consistently and against teams that are not the WFT.
If he runs for 95 yards every week he's going to have 1600 yards. If he does that, the Giants should win their share of games and Jones will have taken a big step toward silencing doubters.
if Garrett would call the plays that will allow him to use his legs, then this is not out of reach. It also will give the defense fits trying to figure out what to focus on.
To NOT use Jones' legs when it is such an asset is simply irresponsible. Imagine if Jackson was asked to simply be a pocket passer.
Quote:
for less than 20 TDs this year. At some point, he's going to have to show he can lead the Giants down the field and THROW TDs. I like that he's running...I'd like to see him run even more. There's a reason our offense sucks in the redzone...teams play zone, stop the QB runs, and DJ can't make plays with his arm. He's really only a dual threat in the middle of the field, with more space, because he's a straight line runner...he's no Lamar or Murray.
It will help if they can actually scheme receivers open like other teams do. The Giants just run stick routs and no one gets open. I'd argue they should do more designed runs in the red zone.
They absolutely should, it's about making them respect DJ as a runner. He isn't going to beat anyone 1 v 1 unless its around the corner, but they need to account for him. The last thing we should be doing is lining up under center with this OL without Gates and Lemiuex. And we def don't want DJ turning his back to the defense in PA down there, unnecessarily complicating things for the hope of a wide open play. Why would any team respect it though considering we can't push anyone off the ball as thigns stand?
Spread them out, give Saquon space, make them respect the QB in the run game, and if things get dicey use Rudolph or Golladay for 50/50 balls. I thought we were going to be really good down there, but that's when Lemiux and Gates were still playing. We still have the pieces to be a decent redzone offense, the question is can Garrett change his stripes? He was good Thursday, but even before the last drive, he reverted to the power game often down there. Is that coming from Judge? Maybe, considering what we've seen.
Serious?
As JonC said, now let's see it more consistently and against teams that are not the WFT.
Along these lines, we were starting to see it last year before the injury at Cincy.
Point is, he needs the full 17 games in 2021 to show us.
Quote:
If he runs for 95 yards every week he's going to have 1600 yards. If he does that, the Giants should win their share of games and Jones will have taken a big step toward silencing doubters.
Serious?
yes.. that will be a rushing record for a QB.
Well, they can definitely help define a season, at least.
Hes not a star. But you knew that already. He's a complementary player. And he's made deep catches before.
Link - ( New Window )
christian : 9/14/2020 10:21 pm : link
Would love for the Giants to have a big, long playmaker opposite of Slayton and Shepard in the slot.
I have no love lost for Tate, and I’ll give him his props for his production last year, but my goodness I hope the Giants aren’t paying him 10M next year.
There’s like 2 people on that thread saying he was a number 1 WR and everyone else saying pump the brakes. Slayton is what he is, good value for the 5th round. He’s a complimentary number 3 deep threat that plays on the outside. He actually does compliment Shep well. I hoped he took that next step last year, but he never did and results are not promising. Guys just don’t wake up one day and become solid hands catchers that make contested catches.
I know I have some posts in the archives going nuts about passing on Winston Justice, wanting Dewayne White over Osi, probably Ciatrick Faison over Jacobs. I think it's great to look at that stuff and try to learn from it.
There was also a thread about Kerry Washington possibly being a #1 WR and I don't even remember who that is.
Diggs was awesome last year and is a true #1. It also took him 3-4 years to get there.
No one can sit here and predict with certainty which so so young player turns into a star. If you could, you wouldn't be working a 9-5 job.
I still think Slayton can be a true star WR but it's a projection. He's looking more and more like a manningham type, which is fine, but no one knows what's in this guy's future.
I know I have some posts in the archives going nuts about passing on Winston Justice, wanting Dewayne White over Osi, probably Ciatrick Faison over Jacobs. I think it's great to look at that stuff and try to learn from it.
There was also a thread about Kerry Washington possibly being a #1 WR and I don't even remember who that is.
I agree and why I think it’s silly to jump to conclusions about this team yet. There’s people here that are convinced this team is a bottom dweller. Based on what? Week 1 playing a very good team being ill prepared and week 2 where we lost on a bad call and beat ourselves on the road more with bad coaching than they won it? Week 3 was always the key week early in the season. Bad overall team with weak defense at home. This is the most important game of Judges career IMO. Bucs offense put up 35, Eagles 30, let’s see DJ and the offense in this spot. This reeks of get right game for a lot of players. The Falcons are what we were in 2017.
Now, wtf did they draft Toney when they already had Shep.
Now, wtf did they draft Toney when they already had Shep.
It's early, but the Toney pick struck me as one that would either make a lot of people looked really bad, or make them look really good. I didn't have a problem with adding another offensive skill player in round 1, shit I don't care what position they draft round 1, just draft a player that can play.... And he we are. But again it's stupid early.
It just almost seems like the Giants out think themselves at times. Like they wanted to be more right about Toney than just making the logical pick. OF all times, they couldn't really afford a weirdo project in round 1. They needed a starter.
Now, wtf did they draft Toney when they already had Shep.
Shep's eventual successor
It's hard to argue with trading down and gaining an extra #1 pick. But, I hated the Toney pick. I think they got caught with their pants down after other targets were picked between #11-19.
Quote:
Now, wtf did they draft Toney when they already had Shep.
Shep's eventual successor
It's a partial answer and still a shitty one, imv.
Once teams adjust to read option and respecting DJ we can easily throw RPO out there and set him up for huge YAC plays 1 v 1.
Now, wtf did they draft Toney when they already had Shep.
Reflecting on the Toney pick, it seems he was a classic luxury pick. A project. If you were a team with a lot of parts in place, he could have been worth the gamble later in the round. We were in no way in that luxury zone...
Meanwhile, if we really wanted to go project, Odafe Oweh would have fit that bill so much better. Great athlete - who tested great when we were at his workout - and at a position of need. He looked very good Sunday night against KC.
Now, I didn't like Oweh's piss poor production at PSU, but it was hard to argue the raw skills.
It's hard to argue with trading down and gaining an extra #1 pick. But, I hated the Toney pick. I think they got caught with their pants down after other targets were picked between #11-19.
That’s my view as well. I think the players in the 20 area were deprioritized and underscouted. Assuming Toney will be as escapable in the NFL as in college is a major risk and I doubt that the extra yards generated by this escapability are enough to justify a #1 pick even if the skills are translatable. There’s a reason possession WRs rarely go in the 1st. That’s before we get to the off-field issues.
Christian Darrisaw has been injured and so really hasn’t got off the ground yet but if he turns into a very good player, the Giants decision will look even more suspect.
I know I have some posts in the archives going nuts about passing on Winston Justice, wanting Dewayne White over Osi, probably Ciatrick Faison over Jacobs. I think it's great to look at that stuff and try to learn from it.
There was also a thread about Kerry Washington possibly being a #1 WR and I don't even remember who that is.
No, that thread is great. Just leave out names to protect the innocent
"Slayton is absolutely a legit #1.
And for that matter, compare Julio Jones rookie stats with Slayton's. Not that much different."
Quote:
Although I do think it's really valuable to look at old takes in all walks of life.
I know I have some posts in the archives going nuts about passing on Winston Justice, wanting Dewayne White over Osi, probably Ciatrick Faison over Jacobs. I think it's great to look at that stuff and try to learn from it.
There was also a thread about Kerry Washington possibly being a #1 WR and I don't even remember who that is.
No, that thread is great. Just leave out names to protect the innocent
"Slayton is absolutely a legit #1.
And for that matter, compare Julio Jones rookie stats with Slayton's. Not that much different."
Yeah I kind of want to scrub my name from existence...WTF was I thinking that we'd laugh the Bills off the phone if they offered Diggs(week 1 last year to be fair) for Slayton. Cmon man.
What I meant to say was Diggs was not Diggs until year 2-3 or so.