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Rosenblatt: Why is everyone yelling at Jason Garrett

Essex : 9/21/2021 10:00 am
I bring this more up as just what a waste the sports writing business is as opposed to the substance of the article. This article takes a few incidents in the past, ties it to one that happened last week and does what?

Moreover, our offense was amazing on Thursday and the only real beef I had with it was the playcall after the INT (which Judge had to have influenced). Garrett is awful and he should have been roundly criticized after week one, but last Thursday night was one of his best games as playcaller for the Giants. Could have put up 40 points if a few things broke differently. Seems like this should be the week where Garrett gets a pass.
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Just a reminde  
CMicks3110 : 9/21/2021 10:06 am : link
But Denver has a very very good defense with 3 elite corners and a good pass rush. Not that Jax is good, but they completely shut down their offense, our offense was better against Den, despite several of our star players playing together for the first time.
Yeah, I was happier with the play calling this week  
Dinger : 9/21/2021 10:08 am : link
and i go back and forth with the 3 plays after the int. I mean run run pass is out of the 1980's playbook. If we were able to execute it would have been perfect. Even the run choices were too vanilla. Maybe Read option, then a short pass then a DJ run? DJ had more success and hind site being 2020 I think using him was more of a sure thing then running Barkley right into the middle? Maybe they were worried about a DJ turnover and then the subsequent narrative should they put it on his shoulders and he fumbles the ball.....second guessing sucks./
i think it's as simple as everyone hates the curl routes  
Eric on Li : 9/21/2021 10:12 am : link
players want to get the ball on the move. they don't want to stop and have to deal with dbs breaking on the ball. You could probably trace Dez Bryants frustrations to something akin to this.

golladay was pissed after the 2nd to last possession of the game where Garrett had him run 3 straight curls. And on the first one the DB interfered with him, but because it was a curl route they only call PI if the DB egregiously gets there way too early. I think it was a situation where he felt like he could win by doing what was working the whole game and instead they called routes that haven't worked all season (or last for that matter).
Amazing is a bit too far.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/21/2021 10:18 am : link
We didn't score touchdowns. We kicked 5 field goals. We couldn't convert 3rd downs.
RE: Amazing is a bit too far.  
Essex : 9/21/2021 10:21 am : link
In comment 15378498 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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We didn't score touchdowns. We kicked 5 field goals. We couldn't convert 3rd downs.

Maybe so, but so many of the field goals were unforced turnovers by our OL with presnap penalties. To put up the production we did against a defense that is supposedly that good (we really dont know this early how good or bad WFT defense reall will be) was a nice game, though.
RE: RE: Amazing is a bit too far.  
section125 : 9/21/2021 10:23 am : link
In comment 15378502 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 15378498 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


We didn't score touchdowns. We kicked 5 field goals. We couldn't convert 3rd downs.


Maybe so, but so many of the field goals were unforced turnovers by our OL with presnap penalties. To put up the production we did against a defense that is supposedly that good (we really dont know this early how good or bad WFT defense reall will be) was a nice game, though.


On top of losing one to a bad holding call...
meant unforced errors  
Essex : 9/21/2021 10:24 am : link
not unforced turnovers
His playcalling was far better,  
Section331 : 9/21/2021 10:30 am : link
but still too dependent on all short routes in short yardage situations. I'll give JG a bit of a pass on the play calls after the INT, but even if he was instructed to run the ball, the plays could have been better. The first play, where a split wide Sheppard is motioned back into an already tight formation, was particularly egregious. You know things are bad when even Troy Aikman, who never has a bad thing to say about his former backup, questions that move.
"amazing"?  
Greg from LI : 9/21/2021 10:38 am : link
You have got to be kidding me
I don't know that I'd call the offense ''amazing''  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/21/2021 10:39 am : link
...compared to Week 1, sure. But 1-3 in the Washington redzone isn't amazing. It's not even good.

8 drives into Washington territory and only 2 TDs is not amazing either.
RE:  
Essex : 9/21/2021 10:44 am : link
In comment 15378518 Greg from LI said:
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You have got to be kidding me

Really? We put up 29 points, had 4 points called back, had 4 points dropped on a receiver open by 20 yards. Right there that is 37 points against a supposedly top-notch defense. I mean, if that is not close to amazing, I don't know what is. Nobody said he called a perfect game, but on three days notice and rest, he diced a defense with a perfect combination of running from the QB and passing. It is funny, how people can be so blinded by their hatred of someone. I don't like Garrett, but he called a good game Thursday night. Not backing down from that, even if you want to find some daylight between good or amazing.
And he did all of this without a functional  
Essex : 9/21/2021 10:45 am : link
running game from our generational running back. So, yeah, while being hamstrung without a functional running game makes what we did all the more impressive, imo.
When typically used to scoring around 17-20 points on average  
chick310 : 9/21/2021 10:46 am : link
for several years now, it is easy to see how some fans could characterize last Thursday night's effort as amazing.
Garrett called  
GoDeep13 : 9/21/2021 11:03 am : link
A league average game on Thursday. We just call it “great” because we are used to bottom tier play calling. His play calling is still NOTHING compared to Shurmur, Reid, McVay, Shanahan, or Joe Brady.
RE: Garrett called  
Essex : 9/21/2021 11:05 am : link
In comment 15378546 GoDeep13 said:
Quote:
A league average game on Thursday. We just call it “great” because we are used to bottom tier play calling. His play calling is still NOTHING compared to Shurmur, Reid, McVay, Shanahan, or Joe Brady.

Shurmur the guy everyone wanted out of here and not only for his terrible ability to be a head coach, but his game play calling. To compare Shurmur and Brady to Reid (who btw is three steps ahead of McVay and Shanahan), McVay, and Shanahann is insane.
.this is his second season here  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/21/2021 11:06 am : link
and it's the first time this offense has scored 29 points...
RE: RE:  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/21/2021 11:10 am : link
In comment 15378528 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 15378518 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


You have got to be kidding me


Really? We put up 29 points, had 4 points called back, had 4 points dropped on a receiver open by 20 yards. Right there that is 37 points against a supposedly top-notch defense. I mean, if that is not close to amazing, I don't know what is. Nobody said he called a perfect game, but on three days notice and rest, he diced a defense with a perfect combination of running from the QB and passing. It is funny, how people can be so blinded by their hatred of someone. I don't like Garrett, but he called a good game Thursday night. Not backing down from that, even if you want to find some daylight between good or amazing.


Well sure, but words mean things. 'Amazing' when the offensive team scored 12 points and kicker scored 17 doesn't work.

You're not going to win real games kicking field goals and going 4 of 12 on third down. Drops happen. That's execution. If it happens a lot, it means you're a bad offense. I'm not killing them for drops

29 points is amazing in the context of the last 3 years. I'll take games like that over games that we've been getting, but saying that game was amazing means you don't think they did much that can be improved.
RE: .this is his second season here  
Essex : 9/21/2021 11:11 am : link
In comment 15378550 Thunderstruck27 said:
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and it's the first time this offense has scored 29 points...


Jason Garrett stinks, just seems like an odd time to be on him. Joe Judge is a career 6-12 and was absolutely awful Thursday and Graham's defense has been sliced up by check down Teddy and Taylor Heinecke. Garrett is a career 87-70 as a head coach, had one losing season in a decade as a head coach etc etc. Do I want him here? No. But he is competent and has a record to prove that. Judge and Graham have no real record of anything close to that to prove their worth. Just seems like the focus is on the wrong guy this week.
RE: RE: .this is his second season here  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/21/2021 11:13 am : link
In comment 15378555 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 15378550 Thunderstruck27 said:


Quote:


and it's the first time this offense has scored 29 points...



Jason Garrett stinks, just seems like an odd time to be on him. Joe Judge is a career 6-12 and was absolutely awful Thursday and Graham's defense has been sliced up by check down Teddy and Taylor Heinecke. Garrett is a career 87-70 as a head coach, had one losing season in a decade as a head coach etc etc. Do I want him here? No. But he is competent and has a record to prove that. Judge and Graham have no real record of anything close to that to prove their worth. Just seems like the focus is on the wrong guy this week.


Fair point. I think all the coaches on this team deserve the scrutiny they are getting right now. They aren't getting our players ready for games. Other rookie first round WR's are making an impact for their teams...ours can't even make it onto the field.
RE: RE: Garrett called  
SirLoinOfBeef : 9/21/2021 11:14 am : link
In comment 15378548 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 15378546 GoDeep13 said:


Quote:


A league average game on Thursday. We just call it “great” because we are used to bottom tier play calling. His play calling is still NOTHING compared to Shurmur, Reid, McVay, Shanahan, or Joe Brady.


Shurmur the guy everyone wanted out of here and not only for his terrible ability to be a head coach, but his game play calling. To compare Shurmur and Brady to Reid (who btw is three steps ahead of McVay and Shanahan), McVay, and Shanahann is insane.


Terrible HC, no one is denying that. But Shurmur is a fine OC.
To put it differently  
Essex : 9/21/2021 11:15 am : link
Garrett is a not a good offensive coordinator in this era of football. However, he has a record of success to show competence. Judge has no such record and Graham has one year of that here. Both of them have been awful in the first two weeks and we are getting on the guy that's unit actually performed well last week. Just seems crazy to me. If he can't do anything against Atlanta you will hear me go nuts about him, but this just does not seem to me to be the week to do that. I have much bigger issues with Judge and Graham than Garrett at the moment.
Garrett is the worst OC in the NFL by a mile  
AdamBrag : 9/21/2021 11:16 am : link
He didn't even call a good game on Thursday. It's just Daniel Jones executed on any play that had a chance of working. Two of the biggest plays were audibles off of Garrett's play call. So many plays were just all the WRs running curls. Just awful.
RE: RE:  
Greg from LI : 9/21/2021 11:17 am : link
In comment 15378528 Essex said:
Quote:
Really? We put up 29 points, had 4 points called back, had 4 points dropped on a receiver open by 20 yards. Right there that is 37 points against a supposedly top-notch defense.


I've never bought into the Skins defense. I've thought they've been massively overhyped. When most of your points are long field goals, I don't think that's amazing. Better than expected? Sure, but the hyperbole is laughable.
RE: RE: RE: Garrett called  
Essex : 9/21/2021 11:17 am : link
In comment 15378559 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
In comment 15378548 Essex said:


Quote:


In comment 15378546 GoDeep13 said:


Quote:


A league average game on Thursday. We just call it “great” because we are used to bottom tier play calling. His play calling is still NOTHING compared to Shurmur, Reid, McVay, Shanahan, or Joe Brady.


Shurmur the guy everyone wanted out of here and not only for his terrible ability to be a head coach, but his game play calling. To compare Shurmur and Brady to Reid (who btw is three steps ahead of McVay and Shanahan), McVay, and Shanahann is insane.



Terrible HC, no one is denying that. But Shurmur is a fine OC.

There is a huge difference between being a "fine" offensive coordinator and Andy Reid. I had a lot of issues with Shurmur's feel of the game as a playcaller. But, no, he is not imcompetent if that is your point.
RE: RE: RE:  
Essex : 9/21/2021 11:20 am : link
In comment 15378563 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15378528 Essex said:


Quote:


Really? We put up 29 points, had 4 points called back, had 4 points dropped on a receiver open by 20 yards. Right there that is 37 points against a supposedly top-notch defense.



I've never bought into the Skins defense. I've thought they've been massively overhyped. When most of your points are long field goals, I don't think that's amazing. Better than expected? Sure, but the hyperbole is laughable.


But little of the reason why we had long fg's was Garrett's fault directly and because of pre-snap penalties that killed us. However, if you want to criticize Garrett for not having a disciplined team to avoid those penalties, that is certainly fair.
RE: RE: RE:  
BigBlueShock : 9/21/2021 11:20 am : link
In comment 15378563 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15378528 Essex said:


Quote:


Really? We put up 29 points, had 4 points called back, had 4 points dropped on a receiver open by 20 yards. Right there that is 37 points against a supposedly top-notch defense.



I've never bought into the Skins defense. I've thought they've been massively overhyped. When most of your points are long field goals, I don't think that's amazing. Better than expected? Sure, but the hyperbole is laughable.

The scary part is that red zone offense was a huge focal point in the preseason. The team literally started off running red zone at the very beginning of camp. Yet, they still can’t figure it out
Fair question.  
BigBlueinDE : 9/21/2021 11:32 am : link
It's the players responsibility to execute the plays.
The bar is so, so low  
Go Terps : 9/21/2021 12:07 pm : link
Amazing offense?
I thought Garrett  
Jerry in_DC : 9/21/2021 12:51 pm : link
had an outstanding game on Thursday. To the point where I would've given him a large amount of credit if we had won. He had the D off balance with QB runs, guys were getting open. It was really nice.

I don't think he's good overall, but I'll say the same thing I have about the D. The players aren't good. We have a bad QB, a bad OL, average-ish receivers. And whatever we have at RB (which doesn't really matter anyway).

Fans want to feel good about blaming the coaches and schemes because its an easy fix. If only we changed this one thing we'd be good, right? Nope. We're bad on both sides of the ball because we have very few good players on this team. And zero great players who can make an outsized impact on winning. Not even close in that department.
RE: Just a reminde  
GMen72 : 9/21/2021 2:39 pm : link
In comment 15378482 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
But Denver has a very very good defense with 3 elite corners and a good pass rush. Not that Jax is good, but they completely shut down their offense, our offense was better against Den, despite several of our star players playing together for the first time.


So, we're slightly better on offense than Jacksonville? Let's let Denver play a real offense before we crown them the 85 Bears.
When the offense does well...  
Milton : 9/21/2021 2:51 pm : link
Fans are happy with the play calling. When the offense does poorly, fans are unhappy with the play calling.
wrong week for this column.I thought it was one of the best game plans  
Victor in CT : 9/21/2021 3:05 pm : link
since Garrett has been here. He took advantage of Jones' athleticism and running ability, moved the pocket, threw it downfield and had a nice mix. I've been waiting to see that.
What's "amazing"...  
bw in dc : 9/21/2021 3:30 pm : link
is the lengths people go to find a scapegoat for the talent DG has given Judge and Garrett.

You would think by these attacks on Garrett that he's misusing Mahomes, Kelce, Hill, Robinson, Hardman, Helaire, Brown Jr, Thuney, Humphrey, etc.

And I really don't care if we keep Garrett or not...
RE: Garrett called  
Prude : 9/21/2021 4:01 pm : link
In comment 15378546 GoDeep13 said:
Quote:
A league average game on Thursday. We just call it “great” because we are used to bottom tier play calling. His play calling is still NOTHING compared to Shurmur, Reid, McVay, Shanahan, or Joe Brady.


Sirianni is looking like that guy too. Eagles receivers running free on every drop back.

Just saw this:

Quote:

Highest percentage of pass attempts when receiver is considered open or wide open (PFF)

1. 49ers (61%)
...
32. Giants (33%) https://t.co/1IA1412Jvr

RE: I thought Garrett  
SirLoinOfBeef : 9/21/2021 4:02 pm : link
In comment 15378636 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
had an outstanding game on Thursday. To the point where I would've given him a large amount of credit if we had won. He had the D off balance with QB runs, guys were getting open. It was really nice.

I don't think he's good overall, but I'll say the same thing I have about the D. The players aren't good. We have a bad QB, a bad OL, average-ish receivers. And whatever we have at RB (which doesn't really matter anyway).

Fans want to feel good about blaming the coaches and schemes because its an easy fix. If only we changed this one thing we'd be good, right? Nope. We're bad on both sides of the ball because we have very few good players on this team. And zero great players who can make an outsized impact on winning. Not even close in that department.


Oof...

That says it all folks. What a mess.
RE: I thought Garrett  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/21/2021 4:05 pm : link
In comment 15378636 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
had an outstanding game on Thursday. To the point where I would've given him a large amount of credit if we had won. He had the D off balance with QB runs, guys were getting open. It was really nice.

I don't think he's good overall, but I'll say the same thing I have about the D. The players aren't good. We have a bad QB, a bad OL, average-ish receivers. And whatever we have at RB (which doesn't really matter anyway).

Fans want to feel good about blaming the coaches and schemes because its an easy fix. If only we changed this one thing we'd be good, right? Nope. We're bad on both sides of the ball because we have very few good players on this team. And zero great players who can make an outsized impact on winning. Not even close in that department.


2 literal TDs because nobody knows what the hell Graham is doing and we can't blame the coaches? I'm pretty far from a blame the coaches guy, but this has been terrible this year. Garrett was solid Thursday, but there was definitely room for improvement. Why do you think Golladay blew up on him, completely out of character for the guy. Our coaches have sucked this year.
No one knows what Graham is doing.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/21/2021 4:08 pm : link
Based on called plays you'd think Bradbury was hurt or just a bad player they're trying to hide with zone.

because we live in a world of hyper over analysis  
djm : 9/21/2021 4:25 pm : link
and the echo chamber interwebz. Talk radio knows how it's bread is buttered and here we are.

That doesn't mean that some of these hot takes are wrong, but there's a shit load of bullshit out there too. The echo chamber and constant temperature taking along with daily referendums are just a bit much.

Garrett had a good game  
AcesUp : 9/21/2021 4:25 pm : link
Calling it anything less than that is just being stubborn. He did everything that people were clamoring for - more zone read, more RPO, less stick concepts and more downfield routes. Does he slide back into old tendencies? Probably. But that was an encouraging game and started to resemble some of the offense you see around the league over the last few years.

The coaches that deserve blame for Thursday are Judge and Graham. That defense has been a mess over 2 games and we're apparently running the same coverages we were last year (why sign Adoree then?). In regards to Judge, there's conservative on 4th down and there's Judge. He's conservative by 2005 standards, nevermind what's happening leaguewide today. He's going to cost this team wins if he doesn't break from those a little, especially in the kind of game environment we were in on Thursday. If you buy into analytics in any capacity, his 4th down decisions cost the Giants 8% in win probability (that's 1.36 games over a 17 game season). If you're gonna argue "feel", his feel was completely wrong in a game environment that had 59 points scored and offenses that were dominating the action. We were bleeding points in a shootout.

Also, I don't understand how everything on this board is so binary. First it was the Eli vs. OL thing years back (it was both) and now it's the GM vs. OC/Coaching thing (it's probably both). You can be critical of Garrett without being apologetic for Gettleman.
Because they forgot to yell at Graham  
Kanavis : 9/21/2021 4:38 pm : link
Offense was less of an issue. I have no idea what the defensive gameplan was. Rookie QB with limited experience and not a great arm? Let's plan it so that he gets comfortable in the short game and can't beat us long. Amd then still give up a long play anyway with single coverage all the way down the field.
I don't know how you can look at this team  
Mike from Ohio : 9/21/2021 6:58 pm : link
the past few weeks and come away thinking the most significant issue with the team is the OC. Is he part of the problem? Possibly. But they have a wretched offensive line, a RB who is still trying to get back into playing condition, and an inconsistent QB. Is he supposed to be calling a game like he has the Chiefs or Ravens out there?

Garrett is ridiculously conservative. But his is coaching a team with few playmakers and he works for a green head coach who is still trying to get his feet under him and playing games to not get blown out.
the complaints about Garrett  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/22/2021 7:10 am : link
are not based on "the past few weeks", they're based on the games he's coached since last season. Frustration didn't just begin in Week 1. It was was result of week 1 looking like 2020.

Yeah, the defense is the biggest concern. We can talk about more than one thing at a time. There is no rule I'm aware of that demands we only talk about the defense.
I agree somewhat that both can be criticized at same time  
Essex : 9/22/2021 7:19 am : link
although I do believe this week is an odd time to get on the offense.
But, it would be nice if the media would focus on our soft cushion zone coverage on defense instead of some guy who had a bad game yelling at the coach who had a pretty good one. Garrett shouldn’t be the scapegoat because Judge and Graham blew a winnable game.
the total lack of football knowledge by the OP and others on his board  
lcrim : 9/22/2021 4:57 pm : link
is annoying and is another reason for the negative view of Giants fans in general.
Another thread here -https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=612562 makes Garrett's thorough going incompetence dramatically clear.
I'm hoping that Judge can replace him w/ a competent OC if the Mara's aren't responsible for this disastrous meddling originally.
Larry
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