Jaime Eisner
@JaimeEisner
Updated 1st HC to be fired odds, courtesy of @betonline_ag:
Zac Taylor (+350)
Joe Judge (+450)
Mike Zimmer (+450)
Matt Nagy (+550)
Urban Meyer (+600)
Mike McCarthy (+1600)
Vic Fangio (+1600)
Mike Tomlin (+1800)
Dan Campbell (+2000)
Make of that what you will (if anything)
Yes, agree
Judge clearly has things to learn as far as being a HC game day BUT, there are a number of games we should have won but didn't purely on the play or lack thereof of an individual player. I can immediately think of EE (1st game vs Eagles last year) and then Lawrence jumping offsides (if he really did) against Washington. We had both those games if EE catches that ball and if Lawrence doesn't jump..
Overall there is No WAY Judge goes during or after this year.
While I think that's a flawed style of thinking, I would like to see how Judge operate free of Gettleman and his mistakes (particularly Jones and Barkley).
What this does tell you is Vegas doesn't see us turning this around and winning many games.
Shortly like any week now, or shortly on a geologic time scale?
I sure hope Joe Judge's record after three seasons doesn't surpass the futility of Pat Shurmur's two seasons.
Meanwhile, we've only had more than 7 wins once since 2013.
While I think that's a flawed style of thinking, I would like to see how Judge operate free of Gettleman and his mistakes (particularly Jones and Barkley).
What this does tell you is Vegas doesn't see us turning this around and winning many games.
Not many wins on the schedule through Thanksgiving..
Although I think McCarthy is best value on the list, he's getting a pass right now because his kicker bailed him out, but that was laughably bad. They are going to lose some games to bad coaching.
Although I think McCarthy is best value on the list, he's getting a pass right now because his kicker bailed him out, but that was laughably bad. They are going to lose some games to bad coaching.
To be fair, Zeuerlein cost them the game in Week 1 as well actually. But yes coaching by McCarthy is not good. Right now, Sirianni actually has been more sound of all the coaches through two weeks in NFCE.
Poor drafting
Poor approach in preseason resulting in poor start
Lack of player execution
Poor preparation
Poor game plans
Inability to adjust
I don’t know if any of the above represent a valid assessment. But all but one is on the coaching
However. I don’t think Judge will be fired, I don’t want him to be. If Giants continue to struggle, I tend to think DG, whose reign up to now by any objective standard is a failure, would be the main reason why.
Yeah its certainly a bad bet, and I think designed to take money from fans tbh. No way the Giants fire someone midseason in second year unless something ridiculous happens like Judge gets caught with child porn on his computer. Giants backers are notoriously low on them this year and I think they think placing money on him to get fired just feels good. I don't think any professional bettors take this type of bet unless they are acting on good information.
Just looking at the numbers, I'd say McCarthy is probably best value bet. Yeah they are 1-1, but they should be 0-2 too and if they are out the playoff race at any point at end, he'll be packing his bags.
I will say this, the offensive gameplans have been really good, don't know if its the analytics, McCarthy, or the OC, but attacking teams weaknesses is starting to look brilliant based on what we've seen from teh Giants coaching staff. Didn't even bother to run against TB, and stuck with the run game against the undersized Chargers defense.
The GM does not choose the coach, Mara does. Reese was hired 3 years after Coughlin.
Decisions are made collectively.
If Judge can only win 4-6 games his year, the Giants aren't going to be able to attract a quality GM if he can't hire his own coach. It's always the Giants way to find a way to hang on to the last losing regime...so,they'll have to hire from within, which they probably want to do anyway.
Quote:
and does not hire Abrams or another internal candidate, we will have that situation in which the new GM is working with a coach he did not choose. Most of the time, the new GM looks to rid himself of that coach at the earliest opportunity.
The GM does not choose the coach, Mara does. Reese was hired 3 years after Coughlin.
Reese was an internal selection.
Decisions are made collectively.
I agree that this is how it is done, but if you bring a guy from the outside and say he has to stick with Judge, that is probably not a workable arrangement, makes the job not attractive, and would severely limit your options.
Quote:
table. AT or DJ getting hurt for a long stretch would probably be the only way you could convince me they shouldn't. Everyone saw that chokejob by our coaches and why the odds skyrocketed.
Although I think McCarthy is best value on the list, he's getting a pass right now because his kicker bailed him out, but that was laughably bad. They are going to lose some games to bad coaching.
To be fair, Zeuerlein cost them the game in Week 1 as well actually. But yes coaching by McCarthy is not good. Right now, Sirianni actually has been more sound of all the coaches through two weeks in NFCE.
Sirianni's only obvious fuckup so far was that wild 4th down attempt. Not that it was the right move to go for it, but the playcall was extermely suspect. If he wanted to run that craziness should have tried it on 3rd down.
Meanwhile, we've only had more than 7 wins once since 2013.
ugh.. he's as old school as they come. All he wants to do is run the ball. He's stuck in the 80s. I have a friend who is a Vikings fan and he hates him. He produces teams that are good enough to get into the playoffs but not good enough to win titles. I don't want 7-9/10-6 teams. I want 14-3 and aa Super Bowl.
If we're keeping a coach just so the owner can save face then we're screwed.
But I would stick with Judge.
But I would stick with Judge.
I second Joe Brady. Would love to see a top and new age thinker bring new ideas to this stale organization. Mike Zimmer would be the worst choice.
But I would stick with Judge.
Exactly. But as you’ve said many times Judge has inherited Gettleman, Jones & I don’t believe he banged the door for Garrett. What happened with Columbo last year kind of confirms that.
Judge really isn’t even given a chance at this point.
Quote:
after 2 games and Judge after 18 games?
If Judge can only win 4-6 games his year, the Giants aren't going to be able to attract a quality GM if he can't hire his own coach. It's always the Giants way to find a way to hang on to the last losing regime...so,they'll have to hire from within, which they probably want to do anyway.
If the Giants were to replace Gettleman with Abrams, can you imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth here, hahaha.
I d be one of those guys that would probably think the move is ok, I kind of am intrigued by Abrams, seems like a really bright guy.
While I think that's a flawed style of thinking, I would like to see how Judge operate free of Gettleman and his mistakes (particularly Jones and Barkley).
What this does tell you is Vegas doesn't see us turning this around and winning many games.
Making excuses for a HC with no track record. So far he talks tough and has not delivered. Coaching not to lose with this team bad strategy.
if the next three games are losses, then its a complete failure
He's in a tough spot because the team hasn't won anything in 10 years. Patience is thin.
He's in a tough spot because the team hasn't won anything in 10 years. Patience is thin.
this league is less about tough football and more about offense, coming out firing, and advanced schemes. Judge is a young guy, but his ideas are old. But I am hopeful he can adapt. If not, he will continue to lose.
Because right now this is considerably more of a management failure than a coaching failure.
Joe Brady seems like a really interesting candidate. Darnold has looked sharp through two games.
Because right now this is considerably more of a management failure than a coaching failure.
Bingo.
How many coaches we going to go through? Fire Coughlin. Fire McAdoo (less than 2 years), fire Shurmur (2 years), and now talk of Judge after 18 games? If you go that route, the front office needs to be entirely overhauled including Chris Mara and all scouting.
Imagine if we fire Judge and promote Garrett.
That the betting line speaks to a Judge firing should not be a total surprise given that the over/under for team wins started at something like 6 1/2 and they might not be on pace for that. If they don’t win against Atlanta, I’m guessing you will start seeing media discussions about the need for a complete overhaul.
That doesn't mean Judge won't be fired when this year ends. Only 3 or 4 wins out of 17 and who knows what happens.
Quote:
...
Shortly like any week now, or shortly on a geologic time scale?
Your sarcasm is weird, as is your general position with this team since you're living in the past in one respect, but admitting you wouldn't fire Judge in the other. You must like some of what you're seeing Judge.
People in general need to realize Judge doesn't own 2017, 2018, the pick of Barkley or the pick of Jones.
He's a second year head coach whose first year introduction to his football team was done through zoom and without a training camp. And even then if you're willing to look at things within context, he did some good things in year 1.
If you're into betting. I would stay away from Judge in this case. Even if you don't think he's turning it around, the GM and probably the QB are gone before him.
This isn't turning around shortly. The rebuild hasn't begun.