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Lemieux has surgery: season over

ryanmkeane : 9/22/2021 8:36 pm
Per Duggan and Jordan. Ugh.
.  
90.Cal : 9/22/2021 8:37 pm : link
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
·
1m
#Giants OL Shane Lemieux underwent surgery today to repair his patellar tendon, the injury he attempted to play through. He’s out for the rest of 2021.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/22/2021 8:38 pm : link
Fan-fucking-tastic.

Sticky this.
Ugh figured this was inevitable..  
Sean : 9/22/2021 8:38 pm : link
Losing both Gates & Lemieux. Awful blows. Best wishes for a recovery.
I give him a ton of credit  
DavidinBMNY : 9/22/2021 8:39 pm : link
He tried to play through it. He is one tough human. It’s going to be hard on him to sit out, total gamer.
Don’t worry, there are more developmental players  
Ben in Tampa : 9/22/2021 8:40 pm : link
On the Ravens practice squad we can start
...  
Mdgiantsfan : 9/22/2021 8:42 pm : link
sucks for Shane! Next man up!
Ugh and sad  
ChathamMark : 9/22/2021 8:54 pm : link
Gates, an undrafted free agent, Lemieux a 5th round pick, we finally seemed to have some promise with, and both gone this year. Ugh again.
can def  
Rory : 9/22/2021 8:55 pm : link
see DG making a move at the trade deadline.
Shouldn't have been a surprise to be honest  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/22/2021 9:07 pm : link
Playing through it was a longshot.

bad  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/22/2021 9:12 pm : link
evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.
Another bad facet of this team  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 9/22/2021 9:14 pm : link
.
RE: bad  
Chris684 : 9/22/2021 9:17 pm : link
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.


Is it? Or does the player have the right to try to play through it if he wants?
Looks like those  
Giants73 : 9/22/2021 9:18 pm : link
Three o line coaches are going to earn their money this year. Losing the 2nd and 3rd best linemen on the team is tough.
RE: RE: bad  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/22/2021 9:19 pm : link
In comment 15379867 Chris684 said:
Quote:
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.



Is it? Or does the player have the right to try to play through it if he wants?


No, he doesn't.

The medical staff has the final say.

wow, that is some really bad luck  
D HOS : 9/22/2021 9:20 pm : link
two starters down, two major reinforcements attempted but chose not to participate. When four guys critical to your oline plans are removed from the board, that is a tough challenge. Here is another test of our front office and coaching. A serious test for Judge and co. Later in the season we'll all much rather have our team addressing it's success in overcoming a tough situation rather than using this as excuses.
RE: RE: RE: bad  
Chris684 : 9/22/2021 9:22 pm : link
In comment 15379870 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15379867 Chris684 said:


Quote:


In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.



Is it? Or does the player have the right to try to play through it if he wants?



No, he doesn't.

The medical staff has the final say.


Interesting, I didn’t know that.

RE: bad  
ryanmkeane : 9/22/2021 9:25 pm : link
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.

Hell of a reach there Eric. You have no clue what the extent of the injury was.
Surgery is the last resort  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/22/2021 9:26 pm : link
Most doctors don't want surgery unless it's absolutely necessary.

Giving it time to heal is normal. Trying to play on it was weird.
His leg was sideways...  
EricJ : 9/22/2021 9:31 pm : link
there is no way his season was not over.
RE: bad  
Joey in VA : 9/22/2021 9:33 pm : link
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.
Losing Gates and Lemiuex is squarely on them and Judge. What a fucking disaster. Top to bottom. You could have put Bredeson in at LG and left Gates. But no, you again fuck with chemistry and consistency on the OL. Judge is losing me fast. Pick 5 and let them fucking play you windbag.
RE: His leg was sideways...  
81_Great_Dane : 9/22/2021 9:34 pm : link
In comment 15379890 EricJ said:
Quote:
there is no way his season was not over.
Lemieux? Not Gates?
The medical staff never gets to talk to the public  
shyster : 9/22/2021 9:39 pm : link
and we have no way of knowing what recommendations they made and how DG and Judge decided to run with those recommendations.

When Lemieux didn't make the New England joint practice trip after he had gone to Cleveland the week before, it was evident that he had some kind of negative reaction to attempting to play on the knee.

That was backed up by the asshat report on this board (the first day of practice in NE) that broke the news of the tendon tear.

I can understand the Giants not wanting to make full disclosure of the injury until they could get replacements on the trade market.

After that point, what they were doing came across as stubbornness.

Where and from whom that stubbornness came from, we can all have our opinions.

As Eric said this is frustrating  
Jay on the Island : 9/22/2021 9:40 pm : link
Because they just lost two months of recovery time where he would definitely be ready for training camp. As of now Guard is going to be the second biggest need after edge rusher.

Bredeson has been a very nice surprise so far but it’s only been two games. Even if he locks down one guard spot Hernandez will more than likely be on another team next season unless he improves significantly over the remainder of the season.

The Giants also need to plan as if Gates won’t make it back next season. They need a center who is capable of starting.
RE: RE: bad  
ryanmkeane : 9/22/2021 9:56 pm : link
In comment 15379894 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.

Losing Gates and Lemiuex is squarely on them and Judge. What a fucking disaster. Top to bottom. You could have put Bredeson in at LG and left Gates. But no, you again fuck with chemistry and consistency on the OL. Judge is losing me fast. Pick 5 and let them fucking play you windbag.

Lol. Yea way to go buddy. Blame a freak injury on a guy switching positions for a game. Jesus you are the worst.
BBI Asshat  
GF1080 : 9/22/2021 9:59 pm : link
The asshat had this correct from the beginning. Who was that agin?
Lol  
ryanmkeane : 9/22/2021 9:59 pm : link
losing Lemieux is on Judge too huh? Wow. Blaming the coach for a player getting an injury in training camp. Man that’s a new one. Can’t say I’ve ever heard that one.
RE: bad  
Sean : 9/22/2021 10:11 pm : link
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.

I agree here. Most fans here figured this was inevitable, why didn’t the Giants?
RE: RE: bad  
Rory : 9/22/2021 10:40 pm : link
In comment 15379929 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.


I agree here. Most fans here figured this was inevitable, why didn’t the Giants?


publicity damage control
I thought someone said that they typically dont like  
robbieballs2003 : 9/22/2021 10:56 pm : link
To operate on a partially torn patella tendon. Maybe he fully tore it by pushing it to get to this point?
I think some of you are criticizing how this was handled but shouldn't  
robbieballs2003 : 9/22/2021 11:00 pm : link
Quote:
logo
PATELLA TENDON TEARS: EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT TREATING THEM
APRIL 10, 2017|IN POST|BY TOTALORTHOADMINZ
A patella tendon tear is a serious injury typically sustained by athletes and active individuals. Because the patella tendon plays an important role in straightening the knee, proper diagnosis and treatment of the injury are of the utmost importance. If you’ve injured your patella tendon and think it might be torn, here’s everything you need to know:

Related Anatomy
The patella tendon attaches the patella to the shinbone. The quadriceps tendon attaches the patella to the quadriceps muscles. When the tendons and muscles flex, the knee straightens.

patella tendon

Illustration 1- The tendons and muscles responsible for straightening the knee

As shown in Illustration 1, the patella tendon is centrally located, a tear decreases function, performance, and the ability to bear weight.

Causes of Patella Tendon Tears
A partial or complete tear can occur due to any of the following reasons:

Running and jumping. Bending the knee and forcefully planting the foot, like when running and jumping, can overload the tendon and cause it to tear.
A direct blow to the patella can cause the bone to jolt out of place. A resulting fracture and/or tendon tear is possible.
The tendon becomes weak with age and/or overuse. A tendon that’s weaker than the muscles it works with can easily tear.
patella tendon tear

Illustration 2- The different types of patella tendon tears

In many cases, weakness can also be attributed to an underlying medical condition like arthritis or a disease that limits blood supply (i.e. kidney failure, diabetes, metabolic disease).

Symptoms of Patella Tendon Tears
The initial symptom of a patella tendon tear presents as a popping sensation that’s felt and heard by the injured individual. Immediately after, the following symptoms occur:

Pain
Swelling
Bruising
Tenderness
Inability to straightening the knee
Inability to bear weight on the knee
Partial tears might just present as pain after jumping or running especially when smaller tears.

Management of these symptoms and the tear should only be done by an Orthopedic or Sports Medicine Specialist. Treatment plans vary based on the severity of the tear.

Non-Surgical Treatment of a Patella Tendon Tear
Partial tears are treated using non-surgical measures. The two key treatments are:

A knee immobilizer limits or prohibits the knee from bending. With time, a partially torn tendon’s fibers will reattach to one another, restoring function and strength. Smaller partial tears might not require immobilization.
Physical therapy. Exercises aimed at strengthening the patella tendon help patients recover quickly. For smaller tears eccentric strengthening may help accelerate healing and decrease pain and symptoms.
The healing process for a partial tear can take anywhere from 2-3 weeks to 5-6 months and is most often related to the severity of the tear.



Quote:
logo
PATELLA TENDON TEARS: EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT TREATING THEM
APRIL 10, 2017|IN POST|BY TOTALORTHOADMINZ
A patella tendon tear is a serious injury typically sustained by athletes and active individuals. Because the patella tendon plays an important role in straightening the knee, proper diagnosis and treatment of the injury are of the utmost importance. If you’ve injured your patella tendon and think it might be torn, here’s everything you need to know:

Related Anatomy
The patella tendon attaches the patella to the shinbone. The quadriceps tendon attaches the patella to the quadriceps muscles. When the tendons and muscles flex, the knee straightens.

patella tendon

Illustration 1- The tendons and muscles responsible for straightening the knee

As shown in Illustration 1, the patella tendon is centrally located, a tear decreases function, performance, and the ability to bear weight.

Causes of Patella Tendon Tears
A partial or complete tear can occur due to any of the following reasons:

Running and jumping. Bending the knee and forcefully planting the foot, like when running and jumping, can overload the tendon and cause it to tear.
A direct blow to the patella can cause the bone to jolt out of place. A resulting fracture and/or tendon tear is possible.
The tendon becomes weak with age and/or overuse. A tendon that’s weaker than the muscles it works with can easily tear.
patella tendon tear

Illustration 2- The different types of patella tendon tears

In many cases, weakness can also be attributed to an underlying medical condition like arthritis or a disease that limits blood supply (i.e. kidney failure, diabetes, metabolic disease).

Symptoms of Patella Tendon Tears
The initial symptom of a patella tendon tear presents as a popping sensation that’s felt and heard by the injured individual. Immediately after, the following symptoms occur:

Pain
Swelling
Bruising
Tenderness
Inability to straightening the knee
Inability to bear weight on the knee
Partial tears might just present as pain after jumping or running especially when smaller tears.

Management of these symptoms and the tear should only be done by an Orthopedic or Sports Medicine Specialist. Treatment plans vary based on the severity of the tear.

Non-Surgical Treatment of a Patella Tendon Tear
Partial tears are treated using non-surgical measures. The two key treatments are:

A knee immobilizer limits or prohibits the knee from bending. With time, a partially torn tendon’s fibers will reattach to one another, restoring function and strength. Smaller partial tears might not require immobilization.
Physical therapy. Exercises aimed at strengthening the patella tendon help patients recover quickly. For smaller tears eccentric strengthening may help accelerate healing and decrease pain and symptoms.
The healing process for a partial tear can take anywhere from 2-3 weeks to 5-6 months and is most often related to the severity of the tear.

Surgical Treatment of a Patella Tendon Tear
A completely torn tendon requires surgery, and is usually performed on an outpatient basis. During the 1-2-hour procedure, an orthopedic surgeon re-attaches the tendon using small sutures and special surgical knots to provide strength to the ligament.

Physical therapy following surgery is an important part of the recovery process. Home exercises are usually started the day after surgery to start quadriceps strengthening. Patients can weight bear with crutches with the knee in a brace. Formal therapy 4 weeks after surgery and continues for up to 4-6 months.

Link - ( New Window )
Sorry,  
robbieballs2003 : 9/22/2021 11:02 pm : link
I don't know why the whole thing was copied. Focus on the last couple of paragraphs in each quote box. This lends me to believe that he tore it more after pushing it.
Regardless of what that website says...  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/22/2021 11:35 pm : link
When have you ever heard of any NFL player playing through any tear of their patellar tendon.

I've never heard of that in over 35 years of watching football. I was pretty surprised when the Giants came out with what was actually wrong with Lemieux and that he would try to play through it.
RE: bad  
eric2425ny : 9/22/2021 11:37 pm : link
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.


Totally agree. The minute they mentioned patellar tendon it was obvious what they should have done.

This same crack medical staff is now monitoring Barkley’s comeback. Not encouraging.
RE: Regardless of what that website says...  
Greg from LI : 9/22/2021 11:58 pm : link
In comment 15379975 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
When have you ever heard of any NFL player playing through any tear of their patellar tendon.

I've never heard of that in over 35 years of watching football. I was pretty surprised when the Giants came out with what was actually wrong with Lemieux and that he would try to play through it.


Never. Few players have been able to come back from even the surgery successfully. Cruz was a shell of his former self after.

You know that Cruz is only 34? The injuries this team endured for almost a decade were unreal. The last standout player they had who enjoyed a long, healthy career was Strahan. Virtually every really good player they've had since either had his career cut short by major injuries or had his performance majorly impacted.
RE: RE: Regardless of what that website says...  
BH28 : 9/23/2021 12:53 am : link
In comment 15379983 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15379975 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


When have you ever heard of any NFL player playing through any tear of their patellar tendon.

I've never heard of that in over 35 years of watching football. I was pretty surprised when the Giants came out with what was actually wrong with Lemieux and that he would try to play through it.



Never. Few players have been able to come back from even the surgery successfully. Cruz was a shell of his former self after.

You know that Cruz is only 34? The injuries this team endured for almost a decade were unreal. The last standout player they had who enjoyed a long, healthy career was Strahan. Virtually every really good player they've had since either had his career cut short by major injuries or had his performance majorly impacted.


Cruz ruptured his which is a different animal than a partial tear. You can't even walk. I would assume Lemieux's tear is much less severe which is why he attempted to play on it in the first place. I would give him much better odds at being able to recover from this.

And if anyone brings up LeCharles Bentley, it was MRSA that ended his career, not the patellar repair surgery.
Don’t really care.  
State Your Name : 9/23/2021 5:04 am : link
Absolutely everyone on the offensive line is at least 100% expendable. It’s a total crap fest anyway. Not like they’re gonna get worse.
By losing guys it just gives more of a chance for someone to step up. Who wants a job? We’ll see.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery SL  
Rick in Dallas : 9/23/2021 6:12 am : link
Let's hope that the rehab for both Lemieux and Gates goes smoothly and they are ready to play in 2022.
RE: Lol  
barens : 9/23/2021 6:45 am : link
In comment 15379913 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
losing Lemieux is on Judge too huh? Wow. Blaming the coach for a player getting an injury in training camp. Man that’s a new one. Can’t say I’ve ever heard that one.


Be that as it may, if he had kept Gates(who most have said is our best lineman) at center, we probably wouldn't be in this situation. Is it a blameless situation?
Hopefully he comes back stronger than ever  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 9/23/2021 7:24 am : link
...
There may have been hope for this OL  
BillT : 9/23/2021 8:10 am : link
Or maybe not. But losing two starters from a line that was hoping to be average at best.is tough. Hard to see how this can work out well.
RE: His leg was sideways...  
short lease : 9/23/2021 8:21 am : link
In comment 15379890 EricJ said:
Quote:
there is no way his season was not over.


+1

That was an ugly break.
RE: His leg was sideways...  
short lease : 9/23/2021 8:26 am : link
In comment 15379890 EricJ said:
Quote:
there is no way his season was not over.


You were talking about Gates right?

I was confused when I replied.


To many starting OL going to the IR. ; )
Too bad for Lemieux as it was obvious he was trying to gut it out.  
NYGgolfer : 9/23/2021 9:01 am : link
Hopefully he can recover well and compete for a starting job next year. Lots of draft picks to use so hopefully the Front Office will consider some level of investment on the OL.

This unit was pretty fortunate in 2020 with respect to injuries, although COVID affected a few guys. But the Giants don't seem to be as lucky this year with the OL unit so far in 2021 and hopefully it doesn't continue.
goes back to thg offseason of poor planning.  
Dinger : 9/23/2021 9:07 am : link
Zach Fulton was the 'primary' offseason pick up with not much else until the summer. DG's Hog Molly shit is just that. Not saying they should have 'reached' in the draft but you can't tell me they didn't have any OL on the board at any point. Just really poor evaluation on the coaching staff, scouting and front office.
That said, they made it through last weeks top 10 DL. If they can somehow avoid injury, develop what they have and become a cohesive unit, perhaps this bunch can redeem itself.
RE: bad  
ColHowPepper : 9/23/2021 9:21 am : link
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.
Ya think? I was incredulous when I heard the plans to re-hab him (what, two weeks?) and then try to play him.

Very much the same as when DJ was trotted out two weeks after what was seemed likely a Grade 2 at least hamstring issue middle of the season. He was a statue in that game. What is the matter with the boneheaded decisions of this franchise, almost every facet?
Alright, let's put feet on the ground  
JonC : 9/23/2021 9:29 am : link
Lemieux was still very much a work in progress. When or if they ever figure out how to scout and develop OL, he could be upgraded. The entire OL right now should be fighting for jobs until demonstrating otherwise.
From top to bottom  
Mike from Ohio : 9/23/2021 9:35 am : link
this organization simply makes bad decisions over and over again. Poor drafts, poor coaching, and now poor medical treatment.

It will never happen, but its time for Mara to realize he is in over his head and hire someone to take over football operations. We all know he loves the team and wants them to win, but he has to see that he needs someone telling him hard truths.
Once Again, Failure to Address The OLine Will Be Our Downfall  
LTIsTheGreatest : 9/23/2021 9:35 am : link
Gettleman has known for 3 years that the OLine is the biggest weakness of this team and has not gotten it fixed.
Not Sure How Anyone is Surprised By This  
Bernie : 9/23/2021 9:40 am : link
once the news of his injury came out, I figured he was not going to be a factor this season. The Gates injury has now compounded the issue and the Giants would not be so bad off if the veteran depth they had originally brought in had not chosen to retire. At least the FO went out and tried to address the problem by trading for Price and Bredeson.
RE: Alright, let's put feet on the ground  
Jay on the Island : 9/23/2021 10:05 am : link
In comment 15380066 JonC said:
Quote:
Lemieux was still very much a work in progress. When or if they ever figure out how to scout and develop OL, he could be upgraded. The entire OL right now should be fighting for jobs until demonstrating otherwise.

I love Gates and I think Lemieux could be a solid starting guard but the Giants need to plan as if neither will contribute next season. In next years draft they need to add a guard and tackle in the first four rounds. Hopefully Peart will step up and tackle becomes less of a need but they could always use a developmental guy there.

I would target C Ted Karras in free agency. I would prefer an established veteran in the middle.
RE: RE: RE: bad  
jlukes : 9/23/2021 10:19 am : link
In comment 15379870 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15379867 Chris684 said:


Quote:


In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.



Is it? Or does the player have the right to try to play through it if he wants?



No, he doesn't.

The medical staff has the final say.


Not true. The player absolutely has the final say about getting surgery
RE: RE: Alright, let's put feet on the ground  
JonC : 9/23/2021 10:24 am : link
In comment 15380098 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 15380066 JonC said:


Quote:


Lemieux was still very much a work in progress. When or if they ever figure out how to scout and develop OL, he could be upgraded. The entire OL right now should be fighting for jobs until demonstrating otherwise.


I love Gates and I think Lemieux could be a solid starting guard but the Giants need to plan as if neither will contribute next season. In next years draft they need to add a guard and tackle in the first four rounds. Hopefully Peart will step up and tackle becomes less of a need but they could always use a developmental guy there.

I would target C Ted Karras in free agency. I would prefer an established veteran in the middle.


They need to continue building until five guys seize the jobs. No scholarships, no falling in love with the men as they often do (it's a wonderful human quality, but it's impeding progress for the football team on the field).

Thomas is a building block, they need to add another premium tackle regardless of Peart, imv. Assuming they've filled spots because they've filled them on paper is short-sighted. Keep drafting and combing the ascending younger players constantly.
RE: goes back to thg offseason of poor planning.  
greek13 : 9/23/2021 10:25 am : link
In comment 15380055 Dinger said:
Quote:
Zach Fulton was the 'primary' offseason pick up with not much else until the summer. DG's Hog Molly shit is just that. Not saying they should have 'reached' in the draft but you can't tell me they didn't have any OL on the board at any point. Just really poor evaluation on the coaching staff, scouting and front office.
That said, they made it through last weeks top 10 DL. If they can somehow avoid injury, develop what they have and become a cohesive unit, perhaps this bunch can redeem itself.



Agree 100%
RE: bad  
djm : 9/23/2021 10:32 am : link
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.


Are you sure this was bad? It's awfully easy to sit here and demand surgery when it isn't you that's getting the knife.

It's even easier to blast the Giants, but the Giants have earned some trust when it comes to the medical side of things. They always err on the side of caution and treat players the right way.
RE: RE: bad  
djm : 9/23/2021 10:34 am : link
In comment 15379894 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.

Losing Gates and Lemiuex is squarely on them and Judge. What a fucking disaster. Top to bottom. You could have put Bredeson in at LG and left Gates. But no, you again fuck with chemistry and consistency on the OL. Judge is losing me fast. Pick 5 and let them fucking play you windbag.


Moving these guys around like Judge has is another story. It's definitely weird.
No surprise to me  
Carson53 : 9/23/2021 10:39 am : link
he tried to gut it out, tough injury.
.  
ghost718 : 9/23/2021 10:46 am : link
RE: RE: RE: bad  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/23/2021 10:59 am : link
In comment 15380131 djm said:
Quote:


Moving these guys around like Judge has is another story. It's definitely weird.


Are we talking about the way he rotates linemen? I feel like that's a conversation worth having. Not sure if it's a symptom of not having good players or if he really thinks that's how to play football.
jlukes  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/23/2021 11:08 am : link
The medical staff has the FINAL says on if a player plays or not. The medical staff gave permission for Lemieux to play in Week 1. He lasted 17 plays.

If that doesn't sound like bad advice, I don't know what is.

At some point, you have to take the blue blinders off and call a spade a spade.
RE: RE: bad  
csb : 9/23/2021 11:11 am : link
In comment 15380129 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.



Are you sure this was bad? It's awfully easy to sit here and demand surgery when it isn't you that's getting the knife.

It's even easier to blast the Giants, but the Giants have earned some trust when it comes to the medical side of things. They always err on the side of caution and treat players the right way.


A lot of this comes down to the type of tear - none of us know but my guess is that it was patellar tendonosis that lead to a vertical tear. Again - I'm just speculating here but I've seen this with several high level athletes in the past and it seems to fit how this has progressed. If this is the case then I understand why they let him play through it - it's more about pain management and keeping the inflammation down. Cruz had a horizontal tear which is a more significant injury and immediately requires season ending surgery, whereas Lemieux was able to try and play through. This means that the structure of how the tendon connects is still in tact; however anything explosive is painful and it would be tough to be very effective as a player. Recovery should be much easier than a typical patellar tendon rupture and he should be able to get back to 100%.
RE: RE: RE: RE: bad  
djm : 9/23/2021 11:15 am : link
In comment 15380179 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15380131 djm said:


Quote:




Moving these guys around like Judge has is another story. It's definitely weird.



Are we talking about the way he rotates linemen? I feel like that's a conversation worth having. Not sure if it's a symptom of not having good players or if he really thinks that's how to play football.


Yep I was alluding to the rotations.
not every case is so black and white  
djm : 9/23/2021 11:19 am : link
holy crap.

The Giants historically have erred on the side of player safety. This can be proven all one needs to do is google former NYG players and how they view the Giants handling of player safety and health. You don't even have to google it. We all remember them.

Sometimes it's not so black and white and things can go in 1-2 directions. They don't always have the definitive answers and will tell the subject they don't. Player then has the choice, get the surgery when you MIGHT not need it, or try and play through but you MIGHT not make it.

Or, blast the medicals. Why not.
the one thing I will say to contradict my last point  
djm : 9/23/2021 11:22 am : link
is ever since Judge arrived, we have seen at least one case where a player played when he probably shouldn't have, when Jones played late in the 2020 season. But even then, Jones was not risking further injury.

Maybe it's a Judge thing and he's scaring these players into taking more medical risk? Possible I guess, but I ain't buying that the medical staff isn't being safe and thorough here. Sometimes it's an iffy situation. Shit I had a doctor tell me to wait on surgery...then I needed it anyway. He told me exactly that. Might not need it, then needed it.
RE: the one thing I will say to contradict my last point  
Dinger : 9/23/2021 12:02 pm : link
In comment 15380211 djm said:
Quote:
is ever since Judge arrived, we have seen at least one case where a player played when he probably shouldn't have, when Jones played late in the 2020 season. But even then, Jones was not risking further injury.

Maybe it's a Judge thing and he's scaring these players into taking more medical risk? Possible I guess, but I ain't buying that the medical staff isn't being safe and thorough here. Sometimes it's an iffy situation. Shit I had a doctor tell me to wait on surgery...then I needed it anyway. He told me exactly that. Might not need it, then needed it.


Good point. It brings me back to when TC was hired and he said he'd stop all the injuries or something to that effect. How do you do that?! I guess by getting guys who are willing to 'gut it out' and risk further injury and by having a medical and coaching staff who allow that as well. That approach has its pluses and minuses as does the precautionary.
No matter how much shit the Giants throw at the OL  
AnnapolisMike : 9/23/2021 12:04 pm : link
It never is enough. It's been this way for 10 years now and it never really changes all that much. They wasted the last years of Eli's career and are in the process of screwing up Jones. The Barkley pick has been a wasted opportunity. Maybe guys will step up but it needs to happen soon.
You didn't have to say Lemieux has surgery....  
royhobbs7 : 9/23/2021 12:39 pm : link
All you had to say is season is over!!!!

Sadly, our Giants are going 1-8 prior to the bye.

Just look at the schedule. We're not beating anyone after Atlanta!!!

Who goes? Gettleman? Judge? Garrett? All of the aforementioned?

What a shame. It doesn't really matter. The only person who needs to go is John Mara. And that is not going to happen. He's the main reason why this organization is failing. He needs to keep his nose out of personnel decisions and hire a GM who has ZERO ties to the Giants.

The last time the Giants went through a drought (1964-82) without a playoff appearance, Wellington and nephew Tim were feuding. They could not come to an agreement on a GM (both wanted someone with ties to the organization). So Commissioner Rozelle stepped in and convinced both Maras to sign George Young (an outsider). And that's when the organization began to improve.

Does Mara have a clue? His brother Chris is the Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. He is an abject failure at the post. Any personnel director who convinces his GM not to draft LB Micah Parsons is in the wrong profession. This present FO would not have drafted Lawrence Taylor given his early college deportment had he been a 2021 draft prospect.

This organization is a joke. I have been a Giants fan for over 60 years and will continue my blind allegiance and suffer with my fellow "Bleeding Blue" compadres. But how sad is it that we are the worst team in the NFL since 2017!!!!
RE: RE: bad  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/23/2021 12:54 pm : link
In comment 15380129 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.



Are you sure this was bad? It's awfully easy to sit here and demand surgery when it isn't you that's getting the knife.

It's even easier to blast the Giants, but the Giants have earned some trust when it comes to the medical side of things. They always err on the side of caution and treat players the right way.


Surgery was not the only alternative. Rest and rehab for longer than the minimum amount before Game 1 was another alternative.

Instead he starts Game 1 and lasts all of 17 snaps. And now has zero value to the team this year.
RE: RE: the one thing I will say to contradict my last point  
djm : 9/23/2021 2:53 pm : link
In comment 15380270 Dinger said:
Quote:
In comment 15380211 djm said:


Quote:


is ever since Judge arrived, we have seen at least one case where a player played when he probably shouldn't have, when Jones played late in the 2020 season. But even then, Jones was not risking further injury.

Maybe it's a Judge thing and he's scaring these players into taking more medical risk? Possible I guess, but I ain't buying that the medical staff isn't being safe and thorough here. Sometimes it's an iffy situation. Shit I had a doctor tell me to wait on surgery...then I needed it anyway. He told me exactly that. Might not need it, then needed it.



Good point. It brings me back to when TC was hired and he said he'd stop all the injuries or something to that effect. How do you do that?! I guess by getting guys who are willing to 'gut it out' and risk further injury and by having a medical and coaching staff who allow that as well. That approach has its pluses and minuses as does the precautionary.


I always thought Coughlin's comments were taken out of context. I think he was referring to the culture here deteriorated under Fassel in 2003 and how some players may have "checked out." Guys were making business decisions down the stretch or maybe not doing everything they could to get on the field, etc. Coughlin was going to change that culture problem, and he most definitely did. Of course people then used his comments against him every time some NYG player tore an ACL, but that's what people with agendas tend to do.
RE: RE: RE: bad  
djm : 9/23/2021 4:00 pm : link
In comment 15380342 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 15380129 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.



Are you sure this was bad? It's awfully easy to sit here and demand surgery when it isn't you that's getting the knife.

It's even easier to blast the Giants, but the Giants have earned some trust when it comes to the medical side of things. They always err on the side of caution and treat players the right way.



Surgery was not the only alternative. Rest and rehab for longer than the minimum amount before Game 1 was another alternative.

Instead he starts Game 1 and lasts all of 17 snaps. And now has zero value to the team this year.


Ok, like I said, the Giants historically are one of the more cautious NFL teams when it comes to player safety and injury, was this an exception or was this one of those cases where the player could have played through it, but no one was going to know for sure until player took the field. No one knows, but I am not sure it's fair to place the bullseye on the NYG medical staff. But that's just me.
RE: RE: RE: RE: bad  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/23/2021 4:34 pm : link
In comment 15380555 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15380342 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


In comment 15380129 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.



Are you sure this was bad? It's awfully easy to sit here and demand surgery when it isn't you that's getting the knife.

It's even easier to blast the Giants, but the Giants have earned some trust when it comes to the medical side of things. They always err on the side of caution and treat players the right way.



Surgery was not the only alternative. Rest and rehab for longer than the minimum amount before Game 1 was another alternative.

Instead he starts Game 1 and lasts all of 17 snaps. And now has zero value to the team this year.



Ok, like I said, the Giants historically are one of the more cautious NFL teams when it comes to player safety and injury, was this an exception or was this one of those cases where the player could have played through it, but no one was going to know for sure until player took the field. No one knows, but I am not sure it's fair to place the bullseye on the NYG medical staff. But that's just me.


That's a fair take.
RE: RE: RE: bad  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/23/2021 4:40 pm : link
In comment 15379954 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 15379929 Sean said:


Quote:


In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


evaluation by team medical staff.

Lost almost two months of recovery time.


I agree here. Most fans here figured this was inevitable, why didn’t the Giants?



publicity damage control

Bringing the dumb, as usual.
RE: RE: the one thing I will say to contradict my last point  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/24/2021 10:30 am : link
In comment 15380270 Dinger said:
Quote:
In comment 15380211 djm said:


Quote:


is ever since Judge arrived, we have seen at least one case where a player played when he probably shouldn't have, when Jones played late in the 2020 season. But even then, Jones was not risking further injury.

Maybe it's a Judge thing and he's scaring these players into taking more medical risk? Possible I guess, but I ain't buying that the medical staff isn't being safe and thorough here. Sometimes it's an iffy situation. Shit I had a doctor tell me to wait on surgery...then I needed it anyway. He told me exactly that. Might not need it, then needed it.



Good point. It brings me back to when TC was hired and he said he'd stop all the injuries or something to that effect. How do you do that?! I guess by getting guys who are willing to 'gut it out' and risk further injury and by having a medical and coaching staff who allow that as well. That approach has its pluses and minuses as does the precautionary.

Nope, let's use the actual words: "injuries are a cancer."

He said that. It wasn't TC's finest moment.
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