Lemieux was still very much a work in progress. When or if they ever figure out how to scout and develop OL, he could be upgraded. The entire OL right now should be fighting for jobs until demonstrating otherwise.
I love Gates and I think Lemieux could be a solid starting guard but the Giants need to plan as if neither will contribute next season. In next years draft they need to add a guard and tackle in the first four rounds. Hopefully Peart will step up and tackle becomes less of a need but they could always use a developmental guy there.
I would target C Ted Karras in free agency. I would prefer an established veteran in the middle.
They need to continue building until five guys seize the jobs. No scholarships, no falling in love with the men as they often do (it's a wonderful human quality, but it's impeding progress for the football team on the field).
Thomas is a building block, they need to add another premium tackle regardless of Peart, imv. Assuming they've filled spots because they've filled them on paper is short-sighted. Keep drafting and combing the ascending younger players constantly.
Zach Fulton was the 'primary' offseason pick up with not much else until the summer. DG's Hog Molly shit is just that. Not saying they should have 'reached' in the draft but you can't tell me they didn't have any OL on the board at any point. Just really poor evaluation on the coaching staff, scouting and front office.
That said, they made it through last weeks top 10 DL. If they can somehow avoid injury, develop what they have and become a cohesive unit, perhaps this bunch can redeem itself.
Are you sure this was bad? It's awfully easy to sit here and demand surgery when it isn't you that's getting the knife.
It's even easier to blast the Giants, but the Giants have earned some trust when it comes to the medical side of things. They always err on the side of caution and treat players the right way.
Losing Gates and Lemiuex is squarely on them and Judge. What a fucking disaster. Top to bottom. You could have put Bredeson in at LG and left Gates. But no, you again fuck with chemistry and consistency on the OL. Judge is losing me fast. Pick 5 and let them fucking play you windbag.
Moving these guys around like Judge has is another story. It's definitely weird.
Moving these guys around like Judge has is another story. It's definitely weird.
Are we talking about the way he rotates linemen? I feel like that's a conversation worth having. Not sure if it's a symptom of not having good players or if he really thinks that's how to play football.
Are you sure this was bad? It's awfully easy to sit here and demand surgery when it isn't you that's getting the knife.
It's even easier to blast the Giants, but the Giants have earned some trust when it comes to the medical side of things. They always err on the side of caution and treat players the right way.
A lot of this comes down to the type of tear - none of us know but my guess is that it was patellar tendonosis that lead to a vertical tear. Again - I'm just speculating here but I've seen this with several high level athletes in the past and it seems to fit how this has progressed. If this is the case then I understand why they let him play through it - it's more about pain management and keeping the inflammation down. Cruz had a horizontal tear which is a more significant injury and immediately requires season ending surgery, whereas Lemieux was able to try and play through. This means that the structure of how the tendon connects is still in tact; however anything explosive is painful and it would be tough to be very effective as a player. Recovery should be much easier than a typical patellar tendon rupture and he should be able to get back to 100%.
Moving these guys around like Judge has is another story. It's definitely weird.
Are we talking about the way he rotates linemen? I feel like that's a conversation worth having. Not sure if it's a symptom of not having good players or if he really thinks that's how to play football.
The Giants historically have erred on the side of player safety. This can be proven all one needs to do is google former NYG players and how they view the Giants handling of player safety and health. You don't even have to google it. We all remember them.
Sometimes it's not so black and white and things can go in 1-2 directions. They don't always have the definitive answers and will tell the subject they don't. Player then has the choice, get the surgery when you MIGHT not need it, or try and play through but you MIGHT not make it.
Or, blast the medicals. Why not.
the one thing I will say to contradict my last point
is ever since Judge arrived, we have seen at least one case where a player played when he probably shouldn't have, when Jones played late in the 2020 season. But even then, Jones was not risking further injury.
Maybe it's a Judge thing and he's scaring these players into taking more medical risk? Possible I guess, but I ain't buying that the medical staff isn't being safe and thorough here. Sometimes it's an iffy situation. Shit I had a doctor tell me to wait on surgery...then I needed it anyway. He told me exactly that. Might not need it, then needed it.
RE: the one thing I will say to contradict my last point
is ever since Judge arrived, we have seen at least one case where a player played when he probably shouldn't have, when Jones played late in the 2020 season. But even then, Jones was not risking further injury.
Maybe it's a Judge thing and he's scaring these players into taking more medical risk? Possible I guess, but I ain't buying that the medical staff isn't being safe and thorough here. Sometimes it's an iffy situation. Shit I had a doctor tell me to wait on surgery...then I needed it anyway. He told me exactly that. Might not need it, then needed it.
Good point. It brings me back to when TC was hired and he said he'd stop all the injuries or something to that effect. How do you do that?! I guess by getting guys who are willing to 'gut it out' and risk further injury and by having a medical and coaching staff who allow that as well. That approach has its pluses and minuses as does the precautionary.
No matter how much shit the Giants throw at the OL
It never is enough. It's been this way for 10 years now and it never really changes all that much. They wasted the last years of Eli's career and are in the process of screwing up Jones. The Barkley pick has been a wasted opportunity. Maybe guys will step up but it needs to happen soon.
Just look at the schedule. We're not beating anyone after Atlanta!!!
Who goes? Gettleman? Judge? Garrett? All of the aforementioned?
What a shame. It doesn't really matter. The only person who needs to go is John Mara. And that is not going to happen. He's the main reason why this organization is failing. He needs to keep his nose out of personnel decisions and hire a GM who has ZERO ties to the Giants.
The last time the Giants went through a drought (1964-82) without a playoff appearance, Wellington and nephew Tim were feuding. They could not come to an agreement on a GM (both wanted someone with ties to the organization). So Commissioner Rozelle stepped in and convinced both Maras to sign George Young (an outsider). And that's when the organization began to improve.
Does Mara have a clue? His brother Chris is the Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. He is an abject failure at the post. Any personnel director who convinces his GM not to draft LB Micah Parsons is in the wrong profession. This present FO would not have drafted Lawrence Taylor given his early college deportment had he been a 2021 draft prospect.
This organization is a joke. I have been a Giants fan for over 60 years and will continue my blind allegiance and suffer with my fellow "Bleeding Blue" compadres. But how sad is it that we are the worst team in the NFL since 2017!!!!
Are you sure this was bad? It's awfully easy to sit here and demand surgery when it isn't you that's getting the knife.
It's even easier to blast the Giants, but the Giants have earned some trust when it comes to the medical side of things. They always err on the side of caution and treat players the right way.
Surgery was not the only alternative. Rest and rehab for longer than the minimum amount before Game 1 was another alternative.
Instead he starts Game 1 and lasts all of 17 snaps. And now has zero value to the team this year.
RE: RE: the one thing I will say to contradict my last point
is ever since Judge arrived, we have seen at least one case where a player played when he probably shouldn't have, when Jones played late in the 2020 season. But even then, Jones was not risking further injury.
Maybe it's a Judge thing and he's scaring these players into taking more medical risk? Possible I guess, but I ain't buying that the medical staff isn't being safe and thorough here. Sometimes it's an iffy situation. Shit I had a doctor tell me to wait on surgery...then I needed it anyway. He told me exactly that. Might not need it, then needed it.
Good point. It brings me back to when TC was hired and he said he'd stop all the injuries or something to that effect. How do you do that?! I guess by getting guys who are willing to 'gut it out' and risk further injury and by having a medical and coaching staff who allow that as well. That approach has its pluses and minuses as does the precautionary.
I always thought Coughlin's comments were taken out of context. I think he was referring to the culture here deteriorated under Fassel in 2003 and how some players may have "checked out." Guys were making business decisions down the stretch or maybe not doing everything they could to get on the field, etc. Coughlin was going to change that culture problem, and he most definitely did. Of course people then used his comments against him every time some NYG player tore an ACL, but that's what people with agendas tend to do.
Are you sure this was bad? It's awfully easy to sit here and demand surgery when it isn't you that's getting the knife.
It's even easier to blast the Giants, but the Giants have earned some trust when it comes to the medical side of things. They always err on the side of caution and treat players the right way.
Surgery was not the only alternative. Rest and rehab for longer than the minimum amount before Game 1 was another alternative.
Instead he starts Game 1 and lasts all of 17 snaps. And now has zero value to the team this year.
Ok, like I said, the Giants historically are one of the more cautious NFL teams when it comes to player safety and injury, was this an exception or was this one of those cases where the player could have played through it, but no one was going to know for sure until player took the field. No one knows, but I am not sure it's fair to place the bullseye on the NYG medical staff. But that's just me.
Are you sure this was bad? It's awfully easy to sit here and demand surgery when it isn't you that's getting the knife.
It's even easier to blast the Giants, but the Giants have earned some trust when it comes to the medical side of things. They always err on the side of caution and treat players the right way.
Surgery was not the only alternative. Rest and rehab for longer than the minimum amount before Game 1 was another alternative.
Instead he starts Game 1 and lasts all of 17 snaps. And now has zero value to the team this year.
Ok, like I said, the Giants historically are one of the more cautious NFL teams when it comes to player safety and injury, was this an exception or was this one of those cases where the player could have played through it, but no one was going to know for sure until player took the field. No one knows, but I am not sure it's fair to place the bullseye on the NYG medical staff. But that's just me.
is ever since Judge arrived, we have seen at least one case where a player played when he probably shouldn't have, when Jones played late in the 2020 season. But even then, Jones was not risking further injury.
Maybe it's a Judge thing and he's scaring these players into taking more medical risk? Possible I guess, but I ain't buying that the medical staff isn't being safe and thorough here. Sometimes it's an iffy situation. Shit I had a doctor tell me to wait on surgery...then I needed it anyway. He told me exactly that. Might not need it, then needed it.
Good point. It brings me back to when TC was hired and he said he'd stop all the injuries or something to that effect. How do you do that?! I guess by getting guys who are willing to 'gut it out' and risk further injury and by having a medical and coaching staff who allow that as well. That approach has its pluses and minuses as does the precautionary.
Nope, let's use the actual words: "injuries are a cancer."
Quote:
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
evaluation by team medical staff.
Lost almost two months of recovery time.
Is it? Or does the player have the right to try to play through it if he wants?
No, he doesn't.
The medical staff has the final say.
Not true. The player absolutely has the final say about getting surgery
Quote:
Lemieux was still very much a work in progress. When or if they ever figure out how to scout and develop OL, he could be upgraded. The entire OL right now should be fighting for jobs until demonstrating otherwise.
I love Gates and I think Lemieux could be a solid starting guard but the Giants need to plan as if neither will contribute next season. In next years draft they need to add a guard and tackle in the first four rounds. Hopefully Peart will step up and tackle becomes less of a need but they could always use a developmental guy there.
I would target C Ted Karras in free agency. I would prefer an established veteran in the middle.
They need to continue building until five guys seize the jobs. No scholarships, no falling in love with the men as they often do (it's a wonderful human quality, but it's impeding progress for the football team on the field).
Thomas is a building block, they need to add another premium tackle regardless of Peart, imv. Assuming they've filled spots because they've filled them on paper is short-sighted. Keep drafting and combing the ascending younger players constantly.
That said, they made it through last weeks top 10 DL. If they can somehow avoid injury, develop what they have and become a cohesive unit, perhaps this bunch can redeem itself.
Agree 100%
Lost almost two months of recovery time.
Are you sure this was bad? It's awfully easy to sit here and demand surgery when it isn't you that's getting the knife.
It's even easier to blast the Giants, but the Giants have earned some trust when it comes to the medical side of things. They always err on the side of caution and treat players the right way.
Quote:
evaluation by team medical staff.
Lost almost two months of recovery time.
Losing Gates and Lemiuex is squarely on them and Judge. What a fucking disaster. Top to bottom. You could have put Bredeson in at LG and left Gates. But no, you again fuck with chemistry and consistency on the OL. Judge is losing me fast. Pick 5 and let them fucking play you windbag.
Moving these guys around like Judge has is another story. It's definitely weird.
Moving these guys around like Judge has is another story. It's definitely weird.
Are we talking about the way he rotates linemen? I feel like that's a conversation worth having. Not sure if it's a symptom of not having good players or if he really thinks that's how to play football.
If that doesn't sound like bad advice, I don't know what is.
At some point, you have to take the blue blinders off and call a spade a spade.
Quote:
evaluation by team medical staff.
Lost almost two months of recovery time.
Are you sure this was bad? It's awfully easy to sit here and demand surgery when it isn't you that's getting the knife.
It's even easier to blast the Giants, but the Giants have earned some trust when it comes to the medical side of things. They always err on the side of caution and treat players the right way.
A lot of this comes down to the type of tear - none of us know but my guess is that it was patellar tendonosis that lead to a vertical tear. Again - I'm just speculating here but I've seen this with several high level athletes in the past and it seems to fit how this has progressed. If this is the case then I understand why they let him play through it - it's more about pain management and keeping the inflammation down. Cruz had a horizontal tear which is a more significant injury and immediately requires season ending surgery, whereas Lemieux was able to try and play through. This means that the structure of how the tendon connects is still in tact; however anything explosive is painful and it would be tough to be very effective as a player. Recovery should be much easier than a typical patellar tendon rupture and he should be able to get back to 100%.
Quote:
Moving these guys around like Judge has is another story. It's definitely weird.
Are we talking about the way he rotates linemen? I feel like that's a conversation worth having. Not sure if it's a symptom of not having good players or if he really thinks that's how to play football.
Yep I was alluding to the rotations.
The Giants historically have erred on the side of player safety. This can be proven all one needs to do is google former NYG players and how they view the Giants handling of player safety and health. You don't even have to google it. We all remember them.
Sometimes it's not so black and white and things can go in 1-2 directions. They don't always have the definitive answers and will tell the subject they don't. Player then has the choice, get the surgery when you MIGHT not need it, or try and play through but you MIGHT not make it.
Or, blast the medicals. Why not.
Maybe it's a Judge thing and he's scaring these players into taking more medical risk? Possible I guess, but I ain't buying that the medical staff isn't being safe and thorough here. Sometimes it's an iffy situation. Shit I had a doctor tell me to wait on surgery...then I needed it anyway. He told me exactly that. Might not need it, then needed it.
Maybe it's a Judge thing and he's scaring these players into taking more medical risk? Possible I guess, but I ain't buying that the medical staff isn't being safe and thorough here. Sometimes it's an iffy situation. Shit I had a doctor tell me to wait on surgery...then I needed it anyway. He told me exactly that. Might not need it, then needed it.
Good point. It brings me back to when TC was hired and he said he'd stop all the injuries or something to that effect. How do you do that?! I guess by getting guys who are willing to 'gut it out' and risk further injury and by having a medical and coaching staff who allow that as well. That approach has its pluses and minuses as does the precautionary.
Sadly, our Giants are going 1-8 prior to the bye.
Just look at the schedule. We're not beating anyone after Atlanta!!!
Who goes? Gettleman? Judge? Garrett? All of the aforementioned?
What a shame. It doesn't really matter. The only person who needs to go is John Mara. And that is not going to happen. He's the main reason why this organization is failing. He needs to keep his nose out of personnel decisions and hire a GM who has ZERO ties to the Giants.
The last time the Giants went through a drought (1964-82) without a playoff appearance, Wellington and nephew Tim were feuding. They could not come to an agreement on a GM (both wanted someone with ties to the organization). So Commissioner Rozelle stepped in and convinced both Maras to sign George Young (an outsider). And that's when the organization began to improve.
Does Mara have a clue? His brother Chris is the Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. He is an abject failure at the post. Any personnel director who convinces his GM not to draft LB Micah Parsons is in the wrong profession. This present FO would not have drafted Lawrence Taylor given his early college deportment had he been a 2021 draft prospect.
This organization is a joke. I have been a Giants fan for over 60 years and will continue my blind allegiance and suffer with my fellow "Bleeding Blue" compadres. But how sad is it that we are the worst team in the NFL since 2017!!!!
Quote:
evaluation by team medical staff.
Lost almost two months of recovery time.
Are you sure this was bad? It's awfully easy to sit here and demand surgery when it isn't you that's getting the knife.
It's even easier to blast the Giants, but the Giants have earned some trust when it comes to the medical side of things. They always err on the side of caution and treat players the right way.
Surgery was not the only alternative. Rest and rehab for longer than the minimum amount before Game 1 was another alternative.
Instead he starts Game 1 and lasts all of 17 snaps. And now has zero value to the team this year.
Quote:
is ever since Judge arrived, we have seen at least one case where a player played when he probably shouldn't have, when Jones played late in the 2020 season. But even then, Jones was not risking further injury.
Maybe it's a Judge thing and he's scaring these players into taking more medical risk? Possible I guess, but I ain't buying that the medical staff isn't being safe and thorough here. Sometimes it's an iffy situation. Shit I had a doctor tell me to wait on surgery...then I needed it anyway. He told me exactly that. Might not need it, then needed it.
Good point. It brings me back to when TC was hired and he said he'd stop all the injuries or something to that effect. How do you do that?! I guess by getting guys who are willing to 'gut it out' and risk further injury and by having a medical and coaching staff who allow that as well. That approach has its pluses and minuses as does the precautionary.
I always thought Coughlin's comments were taken out of context. I think he was referring to the culture here deteriorated under Fassel in 2003 and how some players may have "checked out." Guys were making business decisions down the stretch or maybe not doing everything they could to get on the field, etc. Coughlin was going to change that culture problem, and he most definitely did. Of course people then used his comments against him every time some NYG player tore an ACL, but that's what people with agendas tend to do.
Quote:
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
evaluation by team medical staff.
Lost almost two months of recovery time.
Are you sure this was bad? It's awfully easy to sit here and demand surgery when it isn't you that's getting the knife.
It's even easier to blast the Giants, but the Giants have earned some trust when it comes to the medical side of things. They always err on the side of caution and treat players the right way.
Surgery was not the only alternative. Rest and rehab for longer than the minimum amount before Game 1 was another alternative.
Instead he starts Game 1 and lasts all of 17 snaps. And now has zero value to the team this year.
Ok, like I said, the Giants historically are one of the more cautious NFL teams when it comes to player safety and injury, was this an exception or was this one of those cases where the player could have played through it, but no one was going to know for sure until player took the field. No one knows, but I am not sure it's fair to place the bullseye on the NYG medical staff. But that's just me.
Quote:
In comment 15380129 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
evaluation by team medical staff.
Lost almost two months of recovery time.
Are you sure this was bad? It's awfully easy to sit here and demand surgery when it isn't you that's getting the knife.
It's even easier to blast the Giants, but the Giants have earned some trust when it comes to the medical side of things. They always err on the side of caution and treat players the right way.
Surgery was not the only alternative. Rest and rehab for longer than the minimum amount before Game 1 was another alternative.
Instead he starts Game 1 and lasts all of 17 snaps. And now has zero value to the team this year.
Ok, like I said, the Giants historically are one of the more cautious NFL teams when it comes to player safety and injury, was this an exception or was this one of those cases where the player could have played through it, but no one was going to know for sure until player took the field. No one knows, but I am not sure it's fair to place the bullseye on the NYG medical staff. But that's just me.
That's a fair take.
Quote:
In comment 15379863 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
evaluation by team medical staff.
Lost almost two months of recovery time.
I agree here. Most fans here figured this was inevitable, why didn’t the Giants?
publicity damage control
Bringing the dumb, as usual.
Quote:
is ever since Judge arrived, we have seen at least one case where a player played when he probably shouldn't have, when Jones played late in the 2020 season. But even then, Jones was not risking further injury.
Maybe it's a Judge thing and he's scaring these players into taking more medical risk? Possible I guess, but I ain't buying that the medical staff isn't being safe and thorough here. Sometimes it's an iffy situation. Shit I had a doctor tell me to wait on surgery...then I needed it anyway. He told me exactly that. Might not need it, then needed it.
Good point. It brings me back to when TC was hired and he said he'd stop all the injuries or something to that effect. How do you do that?! I guess by getting guys who are willing to 'gut it out' and risk further injury and by having a medical and coaching staff who allow that as well. That approach has its pluses and minuses as does the precautionary.
Nope, let's use the actual words: "injuries are a cancer."
He said that. It wasn't TC's finest moment.