This week is one win before 5 or 6 losses. The only winnable game through the end of November is Carolina (only because McCaffrey is hurt). Even with a win, this team is headed for 1-7 or 2-6. We've already lost 2 winnable games.
But in a situation like we had last week when a single first down ends the game, just get in the hole hard, use those tree trunks to plow a DB, and get 4-5 yards.
Barkley never liked to drop his shoulder and take on defenders when he was healthy - - why would you expect him to suddenly start doing so after a major injury?
1. His decision making and reads- he needs to be more decisive and be more North-South. East-West will not consistently beat NFL defenses.
2, Scheme- Coaches still haven't figured out how to curate a running scheme that fits his strengths. Still haven't seen him utilized out in space.
3. Injuries- He had about 2 healthy games returning from the high ankle sprain in 2019, where he looked like the rookie version of himself. It's clear as day that he is still working his way back from the ACL injury now. Legs aren't quite under him, a little hesitation as we haven't quite seen the explosive cuts off of the RIGHT knee yet.
Really solid analysis with good use of stats and film to substantiate the hypothesis.
One thing the analyst doesn’t mention is Barkley’s mentality. I know he’s battled through injuries and that NFL football is tough and painful to play. But Barkley seems to me to shy away from contact both before and after his injuries.
NFL players and coaches say that pass pro is a mentality and more attitude than a physical quality. Here again, Barks is supremely physically talented and should be able to be dominate in pass pro. But he’s not often great at pass pro and that would again lead me to believe he’s adverse to the contact.
Walter Payton is the greatest back I’ve ever seen play the game. Speed, power, worked in the passing game and was smart and had the heart of lion and was always team first. Great, great football player and by all accounts a great man. He never ran out of bounds or avoided taking contact. Just the other day, I was surprised to see Walter Payton on a 30 and 30 episode about Buddy Ryan and the Bears and Sweetness was complaining to the media about the pounding he was taking game after game. So, even Sweetness felt the beating and pain and he certainly played on Bears teams every bit as bad as the Barkley Giants teams. But he produced game in and game out at a HOF level. I wonder if much of what prevents Barkley from being a truly great back is his mentality?
Anyway - great post and thanks to the OP.
30 pounds lighter Payton was trucking LB's who outweighed him by 35 - 40 pounds.
At Saquon's weight I watched Earl Campbell truck DT'S!
Saquon would prefer to hurdle a tackler. He just doesn't like contact.
You mean no one can tell that a player known for his quickness, speed, and elusiveness and who has been hurt the past 2 years is not showing the same results as pre-injury? - Shocking! It doesn't seem like analyst wants to accept this. Does he realize last year SB played two games? And he's using stats for two games in the same manner he is suing a whole season?
But yes he has these flaws-- well - while you try to work his flaws if you're the coaching staff, what are his strengths???? Isn’t the idea to play to a player’s strengths?
This is where the analyst goes a little off. What did he say early on? He compared SB to AP in terms of breakaway capability- it's all-time great type. And if his knee is ever okay, he has freak all-time level athleticism whose strength is if he gets in the open field. That's his strength, and it potentially is an amazing one,- you get him in the open field.
How is having the 20th or worse OL maximizing his strength (and Jones who needs to be a pocket passer)? G-Men should want to tap in what a player like SB does best. Giving him this crummy OL isn't the answer. I do share some of his concerns though. SB, as the analyst shows – he won’t say it—but SB is soft. Very soft. But again I think most know that.
He does not fit an offense that needs a guy to move the chains for first downs. If the Giants scouting department knew this I question why did we draft him. Best athlete available does not fit into whatever our offensive identity is at this point.
At Penn State, SB consistently got stuffed at the LOS against really good teams. Although I think Jones can be a winning quarterback, if DG had drafted Josh Allen, the Giants would be SB contenders for the next ten years. Passing on Allen and taking Barkley was beyond dumb.
He does not fit an offense that needs a guy to move the chains for first downs. If the Giants scouting department knew this I question why did we draft him. Best athlete available does not fit into whatever our offensive identity is at this point.
He can be that ... Think outside the box (generational talent potentially)... swing passes, runs (in (he needs to step it up) and out) and screens ... that is easily 20 TOUCHES that can be utilized to control the flow, tempo and make the D play honest. In all that he has 1 offensive weapon category to improve on "drastically" and the other is pass pro (use him a a chipper more the blocking style is actually good at). But he still needs to get better at backing up the IOL against bliztes. So 2 catergories he needs to show decent to good improvement on.
You mean no one can tell that a player known for his quickness, speed, and elusiveness and who has been hurt the past 2 years is not showing the same results as pre-injury? - Shocking! It doesn't seem like analyst wants to accept this. Does he realize last year SB played two games? And he's using stats for two games in the same manner he is suing a whole season?
But yes he has these flaws-- well - while you try to work his flaws if you're the coaching staff, what are his strengths???? Isn’t the idea to play to a player’s strengths?
This is where the analyst goes a little off. What did he say early on? He compared SB to AP in terms of breakaway capability- it's all-time great type. And if his knee is ever okay, he has freak all-time level athleticism whose strength is if he gets in the open field. That's his strength, and it potentially is an amazing one,- you get him in the open field.
How is having the 20th or worse OL maximizing his strength (and Jones who needs to be a pocket passer)? G-Men should want to tap in what a player like SB does best. Giving him this crummy OL isn't the answer. I do share some of his concerns though. SB, as the analyst shows – he won’t say it—but SB is soft. Very soft. But again I think most know that.
Did you watch the video?
It includes his tendencies prior to injury, which were the same as they are now. They're just less effective now, but they were equally inefficient then.
The difference between SB and AP is that Peterson could plant his foot and get 3 yards on a regular basis. Barkley wants to go for the home run every carry.
And the stats from last season weren't SB's; they were the OL's. That's independent of SB; that was showing that the general rushing game effectiveness of the offensive line has been improving independent of SB.
Fans need to stop saying "you just need to get him in the open field!"
For the #2 overall pick, and a supposed centerpiece of our offense, we also need to be able to pound it between the tackles and get a first down when we need one.
RE: DG's enthusiasm for Barkley was hard to understand
At Penn State, SB consistently got stuffed at the LOS against really good teams. Although I think Jones can be a winning quarterback, if DG had drafted Josh Allen, the Giants would be SB contenders for the next ten years. Passing on Allen and taking Barkley was beyond dumb.
We would certainly be better off with Allen. But this is all dancing around the main issue - Mara. We love to pile on DG - rightfully so in many cases. But the reason we draft SB is because we had an owner that overreacted to the Eli benching (which he had personally approved). The next GM was not going to draft a QB. Using Eli was a prerequisite.
We can certainly fault DG for not appreciating what was apparent to some prior to the draft...this was PFFs take on SB right after the draft:
"Barkley is dynamic in the passing game, with legitimate matchup problems for any defense in the NFL but running between the tackles is not necessarily a strength as he has a tendency to try and turn every carry into a home run hit rather than taking the necessary single when the time calls for it."
We can also fault our out of touch GM for running to the podium after the Browns left Darnold on the board who wasn't consensus #1 at the time but was probably at the top of most teams QB lists. When that happened he should have fielded offers.
For the rest of the season, we should use him to maximize his skills. For the rest of this career, what we see now is partially due to injury....and partially due to his style which has not changed. I don't think you can invest a large second contract in a RB.
It's like asking --What is wrong with Johnny Fooball Manziel?
What makes you think he is automatic ...to play well in the NFL?
Look at Johnny Footbal ... he was a Heisman winner and while he had off the field problems; he did find some success in the nfl only to become a 3rd stringer for the browns
RE: RE: DG's enthusiasm for Barkley was hard to understand
At Penn State, SB consistently got stuffed at the LOS against really good teams. Although I think Jones can be a winning quarterback, if DG had drafted Josh Allen, the Giants would be SB contenders for the next ten years. Passing on Allen and taking Barkley was beyond dumb.
We would certainly be better off with Allen. But this is all dancing around the main issue - Mara. We love to pile on DG - rightfully so in many cases. But the reason we draft SB is because we had an owner that overreacted to the Eli benching (which he had personally approved). The next GM was not going to draft a QB. Using Eli was a prerequisite.
We can certainly fault DG for not appreciating what was apparent to some prior to the draft...this was PFFs take on SB right after the draft:
"Barkley is dynamic in the passing game, with legitimate matchup problems for any defense in the NFL but running between the tackles is not necessarily a strength as he has a tendency to try and turn every carry into a home run hit rather than taking the necessary single when the time calls for it."
We can also fault our out of touch GM for running to the podium after the Browns left Darnold on the board who wasn't consensus #1 at the time but was probably at the top of most teams QB lists. When that happened he should have fielded offers.
For the rest of the season, we should use him to maximize his skills. For the rest of this career, what we see now is partially due to injury....and partially due to his style which has not changed. I don't think you can invest a large second contract in a RB.
Even if that were true--which I highly doubt-- why not draft someone else anyway?
"he just returned from an ACL injury", yes that may be a factor but he's referencing plays from 2018 when he was fully healthy. It's been his issue since college.
the preternatural talents who are able to succeed despite bad decisions.
I don't see him as Dave Kingman. I see him as Vlad Guerrero. You'd look at the pitches he swung at and wonder what the hell he's doing. Horrible plate discipline. If only he could get a better discipline. And then you see him hit a HR off a pitch that was an intentional walk.
Or the "bad shot" makers in the NBA. It's precisely the confidence in the ability to make any shot, that lead them to take the bad shots. But it's what also allows them to make the tough shots in moments when that's all that there is.
Or the Brett Favre types at QB. So many mistakes, but it was that confidence and decision-making that also led to so many great plays.
It's not so easy to just turn off that mentality. Hopefully Saquan can learn to be more patient and improve on his weaknesses. But his whole life he has been the kid who can make anything happen and to just rely on instincts.
I hope he can regain his freakish athleticism because I have concerns that he can materially change his play-style.
It includes his tendencies prior to injury, which were the same as they are now. They're just less effective now, but they were equally inefficient then.
The difference between SB and AP is that Peterson could plant his foot and get 3 yards on a regular basis. Barkley wants to go for the home run every carry.
And the stats from last season weren't SB's; they were the OL's. That's independent of SB; that was showing that the general rushing game effectiveness of the offensive line has been improving independent of SB.
Fans need to stop saying "you just need to get him in the open field!"
For the #2 overall pick, and a supposed centerpiece of our offense, we also need to be able to pound it between the tackles and get a first down when we need one.
The Giants need to get him in the open field!!!!
Did you watch the entire video? While he did say SB has limited vision, he did say that if he could get enough breakaways he’d be fine. Listen at the 1:20 – 1:35 mark that he IS comparing SB to AP in terms of breakaway runs. Then at about the 3:15 – 3:50 minute mark he says about SB’s inefficient hero-ball style he says “you can get away with it . . .” And then he gives an example after 3:15. And at 4:10 to paraphrase he says “there is nothing wrong with this mentality as long he reverts to 2018.”
His vision as a rookie was bad too, right? Yet he had a very good season. So despite being “inefficient” he can still be a helluva back, right? So if you give him a MUCH better OL with more opportunities for being a hero, how is that the wrong thing to do????
In addition he is talking about Sb being in year 4 and using the data against him. Yet he missed about 1.5 years – which skews the data.
Bottomline is – if you are being compered to AP and you have this amazing, super athleticism, then how is it that you’re maximizing a player like SB’s skills by giving him a downright awful OL? We’re supposed to “celebrate” that the OL was ranked 20th in 2020? And SB played two games. TWO that season. You talk about misrepresenting data- then that is the definition.
Hey no skin off my back if Giants don’t think he is any good. Just saying to maximize what he is- and that’s a player this analyst compared to Ap in terms of breakaways, then you’ve got to give him (and Jones) something better than the mess they are working with right now. So yeah – it is the OL! Who cares what the percentage is?- the OL sucks.
And yes SB was a very bad pick so far for number 2. But how do you get the best out of a hero-ball RB who gets compered to AP in terms of breakaways? How can you get “more hero” out of SB?
the key isn't to get MORE hero out of Saquon. he's trying to be a hero TOO MUCH, thereby putting the offense in low percentage conversion situations when he swings for the fences and misses.
the key is to get him to be patient and rely on his vision and blocking more, and to take what is available. he also needs to save his bursts of energy for the right moments, not explode into highlight reel mode on every single carry.
the key isn't to get MORE hero out of Saquon. he's trying to be a hero TOO MUCH, thereby putting the offense in low percentage conversion situations when he swings for the fences and misses.
the key is to get him to be patient and rely on his vision and blocking more, and to take what is available. he also needs to save his bursts of energy for the right moments, not explode into highlight reel mode on every single carry.
I thjnk you're missing the point. Was 2018 a good season or not? Yes or no? Even the analyst said it was a good season. It doesn't matter if a Hoe Run hitter strieks out too much.
Sure you can try to change him and keep praying for that to happen with an awful OL.
Or you could stop trying to believe you have the perfect back, and get the guy an OL which can get him in the open field.
And secondly, why should we ignore that the analyst said "You can get away with it." If you don't think he can-- okay. But why not get him a terrific OL - and also have him learn to be more patient? And it still doesn't change the fact that he would be tremendous in the open field, correct?
SO why are you and other fighting the obvious? SO it doesn't fit into our gret pictrue for example of OJ Anderson rumbling through. SB is not a physcial back. He plays different like it or not.
It includes his tendencies prior to injury, which were the same as they are now. They're just less effective now, but they were equally inefficient then.
The difference between SB and AP is that Peterson could plant his foot and get 3 yards on a regular basis. Barkley wants to go for the home run every carry.
And the stats from last season weren't SB's; they were the OL's. That's independent of SB; that was showing that the general rushing game effectiveness of the offensive line has been improving independent of SB.
Fans need to stop saying "you just need to get him in the open field!"
For the #2 overall pick, and a supposed centerpiece of our offense, we also need to be able to pound it between the tackles and get a first down when we need one.
The Giants need to get him in the open field!!!!
Did you watch the entire video? While he did say SB has limited vision, he did say that if he could get enough breakaways he’d be fine. Listen at the 1:20 – 1:35 mark that he IS comparing SB to AP in terms of breakaway runs. Then at about the 3:15 – 3:50 minute mark he says about SB’s inefficient hero-ball style he says “you can get away with it . . .” And then he gives an example after 3:15. And at 4:10 to paraphrase he says “there is nothing wrong with this mentality as long he reverts to 2018.”
His vision as a rookie was bad too, right? Yet he had a very good season. So despite being “inefficient” he can still be a helluva back, right? So if you give him a MUCH better OL with more opportunities for being a hero, how is that the wrong thing to do????
In addition he is talking about Sb being in year 4 and using the data against him. Yet he missed about 1.5 years – which skews the data.
Bottomline is – if you are being compered to AP and you have this amazing, super athleticism, then how is it that you’re maximizing a player like SB’s skills by giving him a downright awful OL? We’re supposed to “celebrate” that the OL was ranked 20th in 2020? And SB played two games. TWO that season. You talk about misrepresenting data- then that is the definition.
Hey no skin off my back if Giants don’t think he is any good. Just saying to maximize what he is- and that’s a player this analyst compared to Ap in terms of breakaways, then you’ve got to give him (and Jones) something better than the mess they are working with right now. So yeah – it is the OL! Who cares what the percentage is?- the OL sucks.
And yes SB was a very bad pick so far for number 2. But how do you get the best out of a hero-ball RB who gets compered to AP in terms of breakaways? How can you get “more hero” out of SB?
WRT his rookie season, no he didn't have a very good year - that was the point. It was an illusion, propped up by breakaway plays that covered for his inability to be the backbone of a running game that can consistently generate yardage and first downs.
He's a dynamic player, and can be a weapon. But as the centerpiece of an offense, that offense is doomed to fail.
His running style is undisciplined . He seems to run east to west looking for an opening to hit a long gain. He seems to avoid contact thus the runs veer down the line of scrimmage. He is a big scat back. His style won’t change. Bad choice for a team with so many other pressing needs.
WRT his rookie season, no he didn't have a very good year - that was the point. It was an illusion, propped up by breakaway plays that covered for his inability to be the backbone of a running game that can consistently generate yardage and first downs.
He's a dynamic player, and can be a weapon. But as the centerpiece of an offense, that offense is doomed to fail.
You know when you 1st replied to me - you asked if watched the video. You were the one implying that this analyst had it right while I had an issue with him slightly along with I felt he was saying not-so-breaking-news.
So I'll ask again - did you watch the entire video, or maybe just listened to what you wanted to hear? If you listen to it all then why are you arguing with me? The guy you were sticking up with had to say this about SB. :
In referring to SB's style he says “you can get away with it . . .” And then he gives an example after 3:15. And at 4:10 to paraphrase he says “there is nothing wrong with this mentality as long he reverts to 2018.”
These are clear examples of the analyst saying as long as he has enough breakaways - he is fine. Above are his quotes or a paraphrase. They didn't come from me. They came form the guy that you were previously defending when I disagreed with him a bit.
He clearly says to paraphrase "as long as he reverts back to 2018".
He's the guy that you were defending. Now all of a sudden you are claiming he's wrong?
RE: So, basically, it seems like what SB does well is
about the same as we're expecting out of Ladarius Toney.
Did Toney have a season like 2018?
Hey I hated the pick and still do. I was slamming DG and anyone who thought the pick was good. But once you made the pick you can't do what DG did and feel like a non-power back is going to turn around an awful OL.
If his skill is elite and he is a home run hitter, then you have to try to play to that style. That style is get him in the open field. That's the ONLY REASON why he can get compared for example to a guy like AP.
IMO opinion Barkley right now would be most valuable to the Giants as a decoy. Play action passes on 1st or 2nd down or split him out wide and spread the defense out. But it seems like the Giants always make it obvious when he's getting the ball.
Barkley will not maintain peak physical skill for much longer. For the back half of his career he’ll need to master the nuances of the game and pair that with diminishing (though still likely impressive) athleticism.
How did Barry Sanders do on terrible Detroit Lions teams year in and year out, behind by and large subpar offensive lines?
I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make but an answer is that he won one playoff game his entire NFL career even though he was one of the greatest RB's in NFL History.
the lack of vision part especially. i always thought this was an issue but wasn't positive it couldn't be pinned on the OL. this seems to confirm it. an NFL RB with poor vision is useless.
eli bradshaw and jacobs had a funny way of making the OL look better than they likely were.
jones and barkley seem to have the opposite effect.
Yeah, that's perfect.
If it was a WR doing this BBI would be screaming to bench him. Freelancing doesn't work.it makes the RB and the OL look like garbage.
It’s his pass pro
It’s finding soft spots in zones
Was hoping Burns could fix him
Still hoping
He’s actually cheaper next year, and should be recovered.
I like Barkley’s value next year.
But in a situation like we had last week when a single first down ends the game, just get in the hole hard, use those tree trunks to plow a DB, and get 4-5 yards.
Barkley never liked to drop his shoulder and take on defenders when he was healthy - - why would you expect him to suddenly start doing so after a major injury?
2, Scheme- Coaches still haven't figured out how to curate a running scheme that fits his strengths. Still haven't seen him utilized out in space.
3. Injuries- He had about 2 healthy games returning from the high ankle sprain in 2019, where he looked like the rookie version of himself. It's clear as day that he is still working his way back from the ACL injury now. Legs aren't quite under him, a little hesitation as we haven't quite seen the explosive cuts off of the RIGHT knee yet.
One thing the analyst doesn’t mention is Barkley’s mentality. I know he’s battled through injuries and that NFL football is tough and painful to play. But Barkley seems to me to shy away from contact both before and after his injuries.
NFL players and coaches say that pass pro is a mentality and more attitude than a physical quality. Here again, Barks is supremely physically talented and should be able to be dominate in pass pro. But he’s not often great at pass pro and that would again lead me to believe he’s adverse to the contact.
Walter Payton is the greatest back I’ve ever seen play the game. Speed, power, worked in the passing game and was smart and had the heart of lion and was always team first. Great, great football player and by all accounts a great man. He never ran out of bounds or avoided taking contact. Just the other day, I was surprised to see Walter Payton on a 30 and 30 episode about Buddy Ryan and the Bears and Sweetness was complaining to the media about the pounding he was taking game after game. So, even Sweetness felt the beating and pain and he certainly played on Bears teams every bit as bad as the Barkley Giants teams. But he produced game in and game out at a HOF level. I wonder if much of what prevents Barkley from being a truly great back is his mentality?
Anyway - great post and thanks to the OP.
30 pounds lighter Payton was trucking LB's who outweighed him by 35 - 40 pounds.
At Saquon's weight I watched Earl Campbell truck DT'S!
Saquon would prefer to hurdle a tackler. He just doesn't like contact.
But yes he has these flaws-- well - while you try to work his flaws if you're the coaching staff, what are his strengths???? Isn’t the idea to play to a player’s strengths?
This is where the analyst goes a little off. What did he say early on? He compared SB to AP in terms of breakaway capability- it's all-time great type. And if his knee is ever okay, he has freak all-time level athleticism whose strength is if he gets in the open field. That's his strength, and it potentially is an amazing one,- you get him in the open field.
How is having the 20th or worse OL maximizing his strength (and Jones who needs to be a pocket passer)? G-Men should want to tap in what a player like SB does best. Giving him this crummy OL isn't the answer. I do share some of his concerns though. SB, as the analyst shows – he won’t say it—but SB is soft. Very soft. But again I think most know that.
He was a 6 time all pro and had streaks of 4 and 5 seasons where he never rushed for less than 1200 yards
A lot like the ones I have been posting here even since his rookie year...
This is not news.
This is who he is, who he has always been.
Now defensive coordinators have more tape on him and have been teaching their players how to defend his cutbacks. So they are working less often.
He can be that ... Think outside the box (generational talent potentially)... swing passes, runs (in (he needs to step it up) and out) and screens ... that is easily 20 TOUCHES that can be utilized to control the flow, tempo and make the D play honest. In all that he has 1 offensive weapon category to improve on "drastically" and the other is pass pro (use him a a chipper more the blocking style is actually good at). But he still needs to get better at backing up the IOL against bliztes. So 2 catergories he needs to show decent to good improvement on.
But yes he has these flaws-- well - while you try to work his flaws if you're the coaching staff, what are his strengths???? Isn’t the idea to play to a player’s strengths?
This is where the analyst goes a little off. What did he say early on? He compared SB to AP in terms of breakaway capability- it's all-time great type. And if his knee is ever okay, he has freak all-time level athleticism whose strength is if he gets in the open field. That's his strength, and it potentially is an amazing one,- you get him in the open field.
How is having the 20th or worse OL maximizing his strength (and Jones who needs to be a pocket passer)? G-Men should want to tap in what a player like SB does best. Giving him this crummy OL isn't the answer. I do share some of his concerns though. SB, as the analyst shows – he won’t say it—but SB is soft. Very soft. But again I think most know that.
Did you watch the video?
It includes his tendencies prior to injury, which were the same as they are now. They're just less effective now, but they were equally inefficient then.
The difference between SB and AP is that Peterson could plant his foot and get 3 yards on a regular basis. Barkley wants to go for the home run every carry.
And the stats from last season weren't SB's; they were the OL's. That's independent of SB; that was showing that the general rushing game effectiveness of the offensive line has been improving independent of SB.
Fans need to stop saying "you just need to get him in the open field!"
For the #2 overall pick, and a supposed centerpiece of our offense, we also need to be able to pound it between the tackles and get a first down when we need one.
We would certainly be better off with Allen. But this is all dancing around the main issue - Mara. We love to pile on DG - rightfully so in many cases. But the reason we draft SB is because we had an owner that overreacted to the Eli benching (which he had personally approved). The next GM was not going to draft a QB. Using Eli was a prerequisite.
We can certainly fault DG for not appreciating what was apparent to some prior to the draft...this was PFFs take on SB right after the draft:
"Barkley is dynamic in the passing game, with legitimate matchup problems for any defense in the NFL but running between the tackles is not necessarily a strength as he has a tendency to try and turn every carry into a home run hit rather than taking the necessary single when the time calls for it."
We can also fault our out of touch GM for running to the podium after the Browns left Darnold on the board who wasn't consensus #1 at the time but was probably at the top of most teams QB lists. When that happened he should have fielded offers.
For the rest of the season, we should use him to maximize his skills. For the rest of this career, what we see now is partially due to injury....and partially due to his style which has not changed. I don't think you can invest a large second contract in a RB.
Look at Johnny Footbal ... he was a Heisman winner and while he had off the field problems; he did find some success in the nfl only to become a 3rd stringer for the browns
Quote:
At Penn State, SB consistently got stuffed at the LOS against really good teams. Although I think Jones can be a winning quarterback, if DG had drafted Josh Allen, the Giants would be SB contenders for the next ten years. Passing on Allen and taking Barkley was beyond dumb.
We would certainly be better off with Allen. But this is all dancing around the main issue - Mara. We love to pile on DG - rightfully so in many cases. But the reason we draft SB is because we had an owner that overreacted to the Eli benching (which he had personally approved). The next GM was not going to draft a QB. Using Eli was a prerequisite.
We can certainly fault DG for not appreciating what was apparent to some prior to the draft...this was PFFs take on SB right after the draft:
"Barkley is dynamic in the passing game, with legitimate matchup problems for any defense in the NFL but running between the tackles is not necessarily a strength as he has a tendency to try and turn every carry into a home run hit rather than taking the necessary single when the time calls for it."
We can also fault our out of touch GM for running to the podium after the Browns left Darnold on the board who wasn't consensus #1 at the time but was probably at the top of most teams QB lists. When that happened he should have fielded offers.
For the rest of the season, we should use him to maximize his skills. For the rest of this career, what we see now is partially due to injury....and partially due to his style which has not changed. I don't think you can invest a large second contract in a RB.
Even if that were true--which I highly doubt-- why not draft someone else anyway?
I don't see him as Dave Kingman. I see him as Vlad Guerrero. You'd look at the pitches he swung at and wonder what the hell he's doing. Horrible plate discipline. If only he could get a better discipline. And then you see him hit a HR off a pitch that was an intentional walk.
Or the "bad shot" makers in the NBA. It's precisely the confidence in the ability to make any shot, that lead them to take the bad shots. But it's what also allows them to make the tough shots in moments when that's all that there is.
Or the Brett Favre types at QB. So many mistakes, but it was that confidence and decision-making that also led to so many great plays.
It's not so easy to just turn off that mentality. Hopefully Saquan can learn to be more patient and improve on his weaknesses. But his whole life he has been the kid who can make anything happen and to just rely on instincts.
I hope he can regain his freakish athleticism because I have concerns that he can materially change his play-style.
Quote:
Did you watch the video?
It includes his tendencies prior to injury, which were the same as they are now. They're just less effective now, but they were equally inefficient then.
The difference between SB and AP is that Peterson could plant his foot and get 3 yards on a regular basis. Barkley wants to go for the home run every carry.
And the stats from last season weren't SB's; they were the OL's. That's independent of SB; that was showing that the general rushing game effectiveness of the offensive line has been improving independent of SB.
Fans need to stop saying "you just need to get him in the open field!"
For the #2 overall pick, and a supposed centerpiece of our offense, we also need to be able to pound it between the tackles and get a first down when we need one.
The Giants need to get him in the open field!!!!
Did you watch the entire video? While he did say SB has limited vision, he did say that if he could get enough breakaways he’d be fine. Listen at the 1:20 – 1:35 mark that he IS comparing SB to AP in terms of breakaway runs. Then at about the 3:15 – 3:50 minute mark he says about SB’s inefficient hero-ball style he says “you can get away with it . . .” And then he gives an example after 3:15. And at 4:10 to paraphrase he says “there is nothing wrong with this mentality as long he reverts to 2018.”
His vision as a rookie was bad too, right? Yet he had a very good season. So despite being “inefficient” he can still be a helluva back, right? So if you give him a MUCH better OL with more opportunities for being a hero, how is that the wrong thing to do????
In addition he is talking about Sb being in year 4 and using the data against him. Yet he missed about 1.5 years – which skews the data.
Bottomline is – if you are being compered to AP and you have this amazing, super athleticism, then how is it that you’re maximizing a player like SB’s skills by giving him a downright awful OL? We’re supposed to “celebrate” that the OL was ranked 20th in 2020? And SB played two games. TWO that season. You talk about misrepresenting data- then that is the definition.
Hey no skin off my back if Giants don’t think he is any good. Just saying to maximize what he is- and that’s a player this analyst compared to Ap in terms of breakaways, then you’ve got to give him (and Jones) something better than the mess they are working with right now. So yeah – it is the OL! Who cares what the percentage is?- the OL sucks.
And yes SB was a very bad pick so far for number 2. But how do you get the best out of a hero-ball RB who gets compered to AP in terms of breakaways? How can you get “more hero” out of SB?
the key is to get him to be patient and rely on his vision and blocking more, and to take what is available. he also needs to save his bursts of energy for the right moments, not explode into highlight reel mode on every single carry.
the key is to get him to be patient and rely on his vision and blocking more, and to take what is available. he also needs to save his bursts of energy for the right moments, not explode into highlight reel mode on every single carry.
I thjnk you're missing the point. Was 2018 a good season or not? Yes or no? Even the analyst said it was a good season. It doesn't matter if a Hoe Run hitter strieks out too much.
Sure you can try to change him and keep praying for that to happen with an awful OL.
Or you could stop trying to believe you have the perfect back, and get the guy an OL which can get him in the open field.
And secondly, why should we ignore that the analyst said "You can get away with it." If you don't think he can-- okay. But why not get him a terrific OL - and also have him learn to be more patient? And it still doesn't change the fact that he would be tremendous in the open field, correct?
SO why are you and other fighting the obvious? SO it doesn't fit into our gret pictrue for example of OJ Anderson rumbling through. SB is not a physcial back. He plays different like it or not.
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In comment 15380885 giantstock said:
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Did you watch the video?
It includes his tendencies prior to injury, which were the same as they are now. They're just less effective now, but they were equally inefficient then.
The difference between SB and AP is that Peterson could plant his foot and get 3 yards on a regular basis. Barkley wants to go for the home run every carry.
And the stats from last season weren't SB's; they were the OL's. That's independent of SB; that was showing that the general rushing game effectiveness of the offensive line has been improving independent of SB.
Fans need to stop saying "you just need to get him in the open field!"
For the #2 overall pick, and a supposed centerpiece of our offense, we also need to be able to pound it between the tackles and get a first down when we need one.
The Giants need to get him in the open field!!!!
Did you watch the entire video? While he did say SB has limited vision, he did say that if he could get enough breakaways he’d be fine. Listen at the 1:20 – 1:35 mark that he IS comparing SB to AP in terms of breakaway runs. Then at about the 3:15 – 3:50 minute mark he says about SB’s inefficient hero-ball style he says “you can get away with it . . .” And then he gives an example after 3:15. And at 4:10 to paraphrase he says “there is nothing wrong with this mentality as long he reverts to 2018.”
His vision as a rookie was bad too, right? Yet he had a very good season. So despite being “inefficient” he can still be a helluva back, right? So if you give him a MUCH better OL with more opportunities for being a hero, how is that the wrong thing to do????
In addition he is talking about Sb being in year 4 and using the data against him. Yet he missed about 1.5 years – which skews the data.
Bottomline is – if you are being compered to AP and you have this amazing, super athleticism, then how is it that you’re maximizing a player like SB’s skills by giving him a downright awful OL? We’re supposed to “celebrate” that the OL was ranked 20th in 2020? And SB played two games. TWO that season. You talk about misrepresenting data- then that is the definition.
Hey no skin off my back if Giants don’t think he is any good. Just saying to maximize what he is- and that’s a player this analyst compared to Ap in terms of breakaways, then you’ve got to give him (and Jones) something better than the mess they are working with right now. So yeah – it is the OL! Who cares what the percentage is?- the OL sucks.
And yes SB was a very bad pick so far for number 2. But how do you get the best out of a hero-ball RB who gets compered to AP in terms of breakaways? How can you get “more hero” out of SB?
WRT his rookie season, no he didn't have a very good year - that was the point. It was an illusion, propped up by breakaway plays that covered for his inability to be the backbone of a running game that can consistently generate yardage and first downs.
He's a dynamic player, and can be a weapon. But as the centerpiece of an offense, that offense is doomed to fail.
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WRT his rookie season, no he didn't have a very good year - that was the point. It was an illusion, propped up by breakaway plays that covered for his inability to be the backbone of a running game that can consistently generate yardage and first downs.
He's a dynamic player, and can be a weapon. But as the centerpiece of an offense, that offense is doomed to fail.
You know when you 1st replied to me - you asked if watched the video. You were the one implying that this analyst had it right while I had an issue with him slightly along with I felt he was saying not-so-breaking-news.
So I'll ask again - did you watch the entire video, or maybe just listened to what you wanted to hear? If you listen to it all then why are you arguing with me? The guy you were sticking up with had to say this about SB. :
In referring to SB's style he says “you can get away with it . . .” And then he gives an example after 3:15. And at 4:10 to paraphrase he says “there is nothing wrong with this mentality as long he reverts to 2018.”
These are clear examples of the analyst saying as long as he has enough breakaways - he is fine. Above are his quotes or a paraphrase. They didn't come from me. They came form the guy that you were previously defending when I disagreed with him a bit.
He clearly says to paraphrase "as long as he reverts back to 2018".
He's the guy that you were defending. Now all of a sudden you are claiming he's wrong?
Did Toney have a season like 2018?
Hey I hated the pick and still do. I was slamming DG and anyone who thought the pick was good. But once you made the pick you can't do what DG did and feel like a non-power back is going to turn around an awful OL.
If his skill is elite and he is a home run hitter, then you have to try to play to that style. That style is get him in the open field. That's the ONLY REASON why he can get compared for example to a guy like AP.
Barkley will not maintain peak physical skill for much longer. For the back half of his career he’ll need to master the nuances of the game and pair that with diminishing (though still likely impressive) athleticism.
I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make but an answer is that he won one playoff game his entire NFL career even though he was one of the greatest RB's in NFL History.
eli bradshaw and jacobs had a funny way of making the OL look better than they likely were.
jones and barkley seem to have the opposite effect.
What video were you watching?