David Tepper bought the Panthers a few years ago, and 2019 was the year he started putting his stamp on the organization. His quote about overhauling the football operations back in 2019 was debated (linked below).
A lot of us on BBI, myself included wanted Matt Rhule. The Giants never even had the chance to talk to him. Yes, Rhule called the Giants with the opportunity to match, but it was way too late. Why didn’t ownership talk to Rhule? Because they let Tepper dictate the negotiation. Tepper flew to Waco to pitch Rhule, the Giants waited for Rhule to come to them. Tepper closed the deal.
Both the Giants & Panthers were in a similar spot after 2019. The difference is, the Giants hired Judge and pretty much stopped there. The Panthers hired Rhule and it was clear they immediately had a clear plan in place. The team FULLY committed to defense in the 2020 & 2021 drafts. A clear vision for what the team will look like.
The Panthers retained GM Marty Hurney after 2019, but only briefly. Hurney was fired last December and a new GM was brought in to work with Rhule.
Lastly, the Panthers trade for Darnold for pennies on the dollar, and Darnold is now playing better after being saddled with Gase.
I’m not bailing on Judge, Rhule has much more support in Carolina. But, this is another example of many BBI’ers calling all of this in real time. Tepper knew what was needed and executed, the Giants didn’t.
The Giants are ALWAYS reactive. It is always a game of whac-a-mole trying to address needs. There never seems to be a vision for building a team. Continuing to use the draft to reach for needs.
It is very frustrating. The Panthers very well make the playoffs this year while the Giants may struggle to finish 6-11. When will it finally hit home with Mara?
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Am I jealous? No shot.
Beat Philly, Dallas and WFT for us, then i'll have respect
There are many organizations that have proven to be better run over the past 10 years. The Panthers aren't one of them.
If your frame of reference is the past 2 years, they will have 1 additional win than us provided we beat the Falcons.
2 years later they are a team clearly pointing up and we are running in place (until proven otherwise).
I still like Judge, so not lamenting not getting Rhule but you look at this version of Sam Darnold (the one without Gase) and it makes you question the Barkley pick all over again.
Will re-evaluate at end of season to see if this thread holds up but right now the Panthers definitely seem to have pushed the right buttons while Benny Hill is still walking around muttering about hog mollies and computer guys.
Jones is far better than Darnold. Come on, seriously.. The Texans are horrible and have a (regardless of how nice he is and how much everyone loves him) horrible coach. He makes the worst decisions in game I have ever seen since Jim Zorn!
BTW- the Texans made it known they are willing to trade anyone on their roster. Britt at Center and even Cannon at Rt would be of interest to me.
We need some more tangible signs that what is being done in NY has legs. How long do we give this current process without that?
I would love to be a 3-0 fraud team one day.
I also think we should be jealous that they have already "been there, done that" with Gettleman, and are beyond that mistake, while we are still stuck with him running the show.
I don’t see that process with the Giants. Felt like they were chasing 2016 in March this year.
Let's face it, Mara didn't want to pay what Rhule was asking or give him the decision making latitude. He is just too stuck in his ways...
But the Panthers are off to a very solid start. And any win on a Thursday night - the absolute worst day for an NFL football game with such a short week - is a big deal.
Remember, Rhule and the Panthers started 0-2 last and then whipped off 3 straight wins to go to 3-2. But then they collapsed. So let's tap the breaks a bit, especially if they lose CMC and Horn for significant time.
I do like, however, the decision making authority Rhule has in Carolina. He's really calling the shots on personnel. And he signed off when Tepper wanted to have another voice in the GM role. So they hired Fitterer. The dynamic of having the HC essentially hire the GM is very appealing versus the other way around...
Right now I would not want Rhule over Judge, we ll see how that plays out.
If Lawerence doesn’t jump the first fg attempt, are we even having this discussion, probably not
Things wouldn t be much different, Giants would have still put themselves into a position to lose because they don’t make plays in crunch time, but had they won, don’t think we re having this discussion.
Fans are as a whole are over reactionary on a game by game basis.
It s. It overreacting to be disgusted with the losing, no, that s been going on for a while now, questions should be asked.
Just not sure asking if we re jealous of the Panthers is an objective question.
Rhule got paid, the Giants got Judge.
Time will tell who got the better deal.
Darnold is good when there is no pressure on him -- the knock against him is that he comes up small in big spots
Seriously???
Seriously???
I don’t think it’s strange. I’m talking about organizational process since 2019, I’m not talking historically.
So what’s your prediction 14-3?
Look at the Panthers, omg matt Rhule is 2-0 and aren't we so jealous.
Tepper is considered a genius for paying an inexperienced NFL head coach as if he actually accomplished something as an NFL coach. John Mara does that, and what the hell is he thinking, omg more clueless moves by a clueless organization going back to old giants ties. No imagination and more of the same.
The Panthers executed their plan but the giants didn't. Joe judge must have been a consolation prize.
Let me guess you were jealous of the chargers and how they fleeced accorsi for the Manning trade too. I mean after all they got merriman (the steroid user), and mr. Clutch kicker nate Kaeding.
Look at the Panthers, omg matt Rhule is 2-0 and aren't we so jealous.
Tepper is considered a genius for paying an inexperienced NFL head coach as if he actually accomplished something as an NFL coach. John Mara does that, and what the hell is he thinking, omg more clueless moves by a clueless organization going back to old giants ties. No imagination and more of the same.
The Panthers executed their plan but the giants didn't. Joe judge must have been a consolation prize.
Let me guess you were jealous of the chargers and how they fleeced accorsi for the Manning trade too. I mean after all they got merriman (the steroid user), and mr. Clutch kicker nate Kaeding.
good post.
This whole thing with his resume and what he "built" there. He didn't build shit. He came in with key pieces already in place. An HC in Riverboat with a rep as a good coach. He had a Cam Newton already there who hapened to have an MVP season when resume Dave shows up and they also had hall of fame talent linebacker. AND that was NOT because of resume Dave. that was before he was GM.
And yea 3-0 with a nice young up and coming QB that actually do not use the same formation like 95% of the time on offense. I wish I had that sure. And do not pretend like the Giants are magically gong to become better and be like the 9-7 team that went to the SB. This team is not good and has not been good for a long time now.
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my comic relief on this site.
Look at the Panthers, omg matt Rhule is 2-0 and aren't we so jealous.
Tepper is considered a genius for paying an inexperienced NFL head coach as if he actually accomplished something as an NFL coach. John Mara does that, and what the hell is he thinking, omg more clueless moves by a clueless organization going back to old giants ties. No imagination and more of the same.
The Panthers executed their plan but the giants didn't. Joe judge must have been a consolation prize.
Let me guess you were jealous of the chargers and how they fleeced accorsi for the Manning trade too. I mean after all they got merriman (the steroid user), and mr. Clutch kicker nate Kaeding.
good post.
Why is that a good post. The fact is the Giants were already a competitive team Without ELI. THey would've gone to the playoffs with Kurt Warner. It just so happens the Accorsi saw something in Eli in a heavy QB draft class when the Giants were picking high. Or are we still pretending this team is going to win a bunch of games and make a playoff run? Teams that go 0-2 for like 6 consecutive years do not normally just magically turn things around mid-season. In fact you can argue that the Giants season is pretty much already over.
Lots needs to go right to win and have sustained success. There will be a bunch of 2 and 3 loss teams after this week, many were thought to have turned the corner.
Lots needs to go right to win and have sustained success. There will be a bunch of 2 and 3 loss teams after this week, many were thought to have turned the corner.
This is very fair.
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By the way I don’t think Rhule ever intended to come to NY.
This whole thing with his resume and what he "built" there. He didn't build shit. He came in with key pieces already in place. An HC in Riverboat with a rep as a good coach. He had a Cam Newton already there who hapened to have an MVP season when resume Dave shows up and they also had hall of fame talent linebacker. AND that was NOT because of resume Dave. that was before he was GM.
And yea 3-0 with a nice young up and coming QB that actually do not use the same formation like 95% of the time on offense. I wish I had that sure. And do not pretend like the Giants are magically gong to become better and be like the 9-7 team that went to the SB. This team is not good and has not been good for a long time now.
Let's see, the Panthers record prior to gettleman. They made the playoffs once in 7 years and finished 8-8 or worse every year except the 1 playoff year. They finished 1st only once.. When Dave became GM they made the playoffs 3 out of the 4 years and went right back to losing after he left, which lead to Rivera getting fired. 2 straight losing seasons. They had another losing record last year.
but don't let facts get in the way of a good gettleman bashing.
Oh, and cam newtons mvp year was 2015 and gettleman was the gm at that time. Damn, more of those pesky facts again
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By the way I don’t think Rhule ever intended to come to NY.
This whole thing with his resume and what he "built" there. He didn't build shit. He came in with key pieces already in place. An HC in Riverboat with a rep as a good coach. He had a Cam Newton already there who hapened to have an MVP season when resume Dave shows up and they also had hall of fame talent linebacker. AND that was NOT because of resume Dave. that was before he was GM.
And yea 3-0 with a nice young up and coming QB that actually do not use the same formation like 95% of the time on offense. I wish I had that sure. And do not pretend like the Giants are magically gong to become better and be like the 9-7 team that went to the SB. This team is not good and has not been good for a long time now.
Sorry I was being sarcastic.
Have fun on the Panthers bandwagon!
Lots needs to go right to win and have sustained success. There will be a bunch of 2 and 3 loss teams after this week, many were thought to have turned the corner.
I'm a fan of what the Colts have done. They have had a brutal schedule to start the year. They're a good QB away from competing IMO.
I do think Rhule did a great job hiring Brady especially. He has had 2 retread QBs and very little CMC and they generally move the ball. I thought Snow was a huge mistake too and that doesn't seem to be the case.
Absolutely comical.
Which one is it? At the end of the day the Panthers are 3-0 and we’re 0-2. Unless they go 2-12 they’ll likely end up with a better record than the Giants, so yea I’d probably take the Panthers situation over ours.
Lots of good young players on defense, still on reasonable contracts. Moore, CMC, Darnold on offense with Brady running the show and this offseason they’ll probably invest on that side similarly to how they did on the defense year 1.
For a board that loves to talk about trajectories, id take the Panthers trajectory over ours.
Matt Rhule has 8 wins and 11 losses as an NFL head coach. Let's see him get his team to a winning record and a division title or deep into the playoffs before we anoint him as the second coming of Bill Parcells.
For all the hot take artists on twitter and the media telling everyone that McVay, Shanahan, Stefanski, LaFleur and Rhule are the new cool kids in the NFL making all the right moves, they still have a collective 0 Super Bowl rings among them. It is hard to win in the NFL and even the best coaches rarely win the whole thing more than once.
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when Indy was the next big thing. Great drafts, upward trajectory, and now they are are looking down the barrel at 0-3.
Lots needs to go right to win and have sustained success. There will be a bunch of 2 and 3 loss teams after this week, many were thought to have turned the corner.
I'm a fan of what the Colts have done. They have had a brutal schedule to start the year. They're a good QB away from competing IMO.
Aren’t lost teams? I’d consider Daniel Jones last week an example of a good QB. If he plays like that 75% of the time we likely go to the playoffs. No idea if that will happen but a good half the league or so is in this boat.
Matt Rhule has 8 wins and 11 losses as an NFL head coach. Let's see him get his team to a winning record and a division title or deep into the playoffs before we anoint him as the second coming of Bill Parcells.
For all the hot take artists on twitter and the media telling everyone that McVay, Shanahan, Stefanski, LaFleur and Rhule are the new cool kids in the NFL making all the right moves, they still have a collective 0 Super Bowl rings among them. It is hard to win in the NFL and even the best coaches rarely win the whole thing more than once.
Those guys have been head coaches for what, 5 years maybe? Two of them went to a Super Bowl. Stefanski was a fumble through the end zone away from possibly beating the Chiefs last year.
And to be fair, many anointed Judge after last season.
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In comment 15381028 UConn4523 said:
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when Indy was the next big thing. Great drafts, upward trajectory, and now they are are looking down the barrel at 0-3.
Lots needs to go right to win and have sustained success. There will be a bunch of 2 and 3 loss teams after this week, many were thought to have turned the corner.
I'm a fan of what the Colts have done. They have had a brutal schedule to start the year. They're a good QB away from competing IMO.
Aren’t lost teams? I’d consider Daniel Jones last week an example of a good QB. If he plays like that 75% of the time we likely go to the playoffs. No idea if that will happen but a good half the league or so is in this boat.
This is certainly true. I guess I'd phrase it this way: I think if the Colts acquired Stafford they'd be a top five contender - and would win 12-14 games. I think the Giants would be a playoff contender if they acquired Stafford and would likely be in the 8-11 win range.
I'm not sure if that makes my point clear.
That’s my point. I think the Giants process is lacking, and both teams had a fork in the road after 2019.
Hope I’m wrong and this team goes 10-7.
Which one is it? At the end of the day the Panthers are 3-0 and we’re 0-2. Unless they go 2-12 they’ll likely end up with a better record than the Giants, so yea I’d probably take the Panthers situation over ours.
Lots of good young players on defense, still on reasonable contracts. Moore, CMC, Darnold on offense with Brady running the show and this offseason they’ll probably invest on that side similarly to how they did on the defense year 1.
For a board that loves to talk about trajectories, id take the Panthers trajectory over ours.
The OP asked if we’re jealous, not if the needle is moving.
The Panthers are an organization with a clear vision and direction, which leads to quality play on the field. The Giants are an organization lost in the wilderness.
As for jealousy, we have 4 super bowl titles to their 0, including some of the most iconic games in NFL playoff history. C'mon man.
Also the guy who when not one single person in this town, not fans, not media, and probably not even many people within that organization still thought Tom Coughlin was the right man for the job, stayed calm and kept Coughlin on.
2 decisions that lead to 2 recent Super Bowls.
I know people here think they are no big deal, especially 2011, but they are damn hard to win. In general, it's just plain hard to win in this league period. Very few franchises find ways to consistently win and put actual titles on the board. And if you think we are alone in experiencing a down period of years, you're fooling yourself. The Patriots were the gold standard for 20 years but are finding out what life without Tom Brady is like. The Steelers do a really nice job with consistency but even they have as many titles as we do since the turn of the century.
What is this grand plan of Tepper's? Seems to me it was to just throw the most money at the name most hyped for his head coaching vacancy. This thread is totally crazy.
Win or lose, this weekend we are inducting our former franchise QB into the ring of honor and retiring his number. Do you know how rare it is in football for a player to achieve that status? Just my opinion but it seems pretty laughable to be jealous of the Panthers or really any team in this league. Seriously, why even bother being a Giants fan?
The Panthers are an organization with a clear vision and direction, which leads to quality play on the field. The Giants are an organization lost in the wilderness.
As for jealousy, we have 4 super bowl titles to their 0, including some of the most iconic games in NFL playoff history. C'mon man.
Yes. If I could edit the title I would. Of course from a historic standpoint, the Panthers are less than nothing compared to the Giants.
My point is the process since 2019.
That's a huge stretch. Where is the evidence for that? And what have the Panthers done since 2019 that's so great?
but I guess this is the way of BBI these days. Darnold has 4 fumbles in 3 games (5 total TO) and he's a comeback story while Jones' 1 turnover so far was basically a career ender.
you are what your record is so I have zero issue giving credit to Rhule for their 3-0 start with the appropriate context. Same as the 5-4 record to finish last year for the NYG. Just don't understand those who can completely write off one due to context but then apply no context to the other. Though at this point that's the expectation around here, everything other teams do is great and everything the NYG do is wrong.
isn't this what people dont want to happen with Judge but its ok for carolina?
also Tepper going hard for Rhule was his gamble. look at a much more established college coach in Meyer looking a mess in the NFL.
if Rhule was a bum we wouldn't be talking about this.
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And yeah, the Panthers are a better place to be than the Giants right now, and likely over the next decade or so.
That's a huge stretch. Where is the evidence for that? And what have the Panthers done since 2019 that's so great?
The Panthers have a clear direction and plan on place. The Giants don't.
I was so happy the Giants didn't get Rhule,I didn't even watch Judge's introductory press conference.Not until after the draft,than I saw what we were dealing with.
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In comment 15381069 Go Terps said:
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And yeah, the Panthers are a better place to be than the Giants right now, and likely over the next decade or so.
That's a huge stretch. Where is the evidence for that? And what have the Panthers done since 2019 that's so great?
The Panthers have a clear direction and plan on place. The Giants don't.
O yea? What's their plan as far as you know?
but I guess this is the way of BBI these days. Darnold has 4 fumbles in 3 games (5 total TO) and he's a comeback story while Jones' 1 turnover so far was basically a career ender.
you are what your record is so I have zero issue giving credit to Rhule for their 3-0 start with the appropriate context. Same as the 5-4 record to finish last year for the NYG. Just don't understand those who can completely write off one due to context but then apply no context to the other. Though at this point that's the expectation around here, everything other teams do is great and everything the NYG do is wrong.
I’m not certain the giants are 3-0 with the Panthers schedule, so that would prove the OP’s point, no?
The Panthers went to a Super Bowl not too long ago and their rebuild has been happening quicker than ours.
A lot of these responses reinforce the issues with the Giants. Clinging to historic success to dismiss a current lack of organizational foresight.
The Super Bowls in 2007 & 2011 have no relevance to today. The league has changed. 15-35 under the current GM.
Here is where I’m jealous: an owner who knew that his football operations needed to be overhauled.
Why do so many Giant fans not demand better? A lot of these same Giant fans are Yankee fans who always expect a World Series every year. Where is that standard with the Giants? This team hasn’t won the division since 2011!
And maybe the Panthers plan won’t work, but at least they have one.
The ironic part is the same people that love Tepper and the analytics crew gloss over the fact they gave CMC a huge contract. It’s not that the positional value is low for what they give you, it’s that the injury factor is baked into the contract. So it’s a gamble, but to win a Super Bowl you need some gambles to pay off, like your stud RB to stay healthy or be healthy for the Playoffs.
What they did do right was they shut him down last year when it was apparent they were a long shot and even if they did make playoffs would certainly fizzle out. Unfortunately, I never see the Giants ever considering doing that with Saquon, in fact they rushed him back year 2 with a rookie QB, why? I think people throwing dirt on Saquons grave right now are being ridiculous, if by seasons end he looks like he does, sure, but two games after a major injury with once again a makeshift line? This thread is just another countless example of people using the first glimmer of anything to scream from the rooftops that they were right and everyone else is wrong. Things haven’t even been close to be decided yet. It’s like context doesn’t matter to anyone, especially with a ridiculous small sample size.
Carolina has 6 picks total (2 in rounds 1-3)
So right off the bat, NYG is better positioned for the foreseeable draft future.
In what other ways is Carolina better off than us?
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and also likely didn't watch how they let both the Jets and Texans hang around in games that should have been blowouts. The teams they've played against have scored 14, 7, and 9 points respectively so either their D is the 2000 Ravens or maybe they've had a weak schedule that will eventually balance out?
but I guess this is the way of BBI these days. Darnold has 4 fumbles in 3 games (5 total TO) and he's a comeback story while Jones' 1 turnover so far was basically a career ender.
you are what your record is so I have zero issue giving credit to Rhule for their 3-0 start with the appropriate context. Same as the 5-4 record to finish last year for the NYG. Just don't understand those who can completely write off one due to context but then apply no context to the other. Though at this point that's the expectation around here, everything other teams do is great and everything the NYG do is wrong.
I’m not certain the giants are 3-0 with the Panthers schedule, so that would prove the OP’s point, no?
The Panthers went to a Super Bowl not too long ago and their rebuild has been happening quicker than ours.
it would prove the point as much as it would prove the point that the NYG are on a better track because they won more games last year.
which is to say that neither proves anything.
in terms of the hypothetical presented, I feel confident the NYG will win any games their defense keeps the opposition under 10 points. Which is essentially what happened in all 3 games for Carolina so far (the Jets got a garbage time TD with like a minute left to go from 8 pts to 14).
Carolina has 6 picks total (2 in rounds 1-3)
So right off the bat, NYG is better positioned for the foreseeable draft future.
In what other ways is Carolina better off than us?
The Giants could have 20 draft picks next year and it wouldn't matter because of the people making the picks. Look at their first rounders since 2018. Our if you want to go back farther, since 2012.
The Giants scout poorly, they draft poorly, they allocate their resources poorly.
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And yeah, the Panthers are a better place to be than the Giants right now, and likely over the next decade or so.
A lot of these responses reinforce the issues with the Giants. Clinging to historic success to dismiss a current lack of organizational foresight.
The Super Bowls in 2007 & 2011 have no relevance to today. The league has changed. 15-35 under the current GM.
Here is where I’m jealous: an owner who knew that his football operations needed to be overhauled.
Why do so many Giant fans not demand better? A lot of these same Giant fans are Yankee fans who always expect a World Series every year. Where is that standard with the Giants? This team hasn’t won the division since 2011!
And maybe the Panthers plan won’t work, but at least they have one.
Yankees fans have pitchforks ready and it's been only 2 years more since their championship. No one is saying "oh well we won a WS 12 years ago so everything is fine"
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NYG has 9 picks total (5 in rounds 1-3)
Carolina has 6 picks total (2 in rounds 1-3)
So right off the bat, NYG is better positioned for the foreseeable draft future.
In what other ways is Carolina better off than us?
The Giants could have 20 draft picks next year and it wouldn't matter because of the people making the picks. Look at their first rounders since 2018. Our if you want to go back farther, since 2012.
The Giants scout poorly, they draft poorly, they allocate their resources poorly.
What do drafts prior to Joe Judge being here have to do with anything?
The last 2 drafts are looking fine right now. A little bit incomplete but they have improved.
See, you want people on the other side of the argument not to talk about the past, then when they talk about the future, you bring things back to the past.
Also the guy who when not one single person in this town, not fans, not media, and probably not even many people within that organization still thought Tom Coughlin was the right man for the job, stayed calm and kept Coughlin on.
2 decisions that lead to 2 recent Super Bowls.
I know people here think they are no big deal, especially 2011, but they are damn hard to win. In general, it's just plain hard to win in this league period. Very few franchises find ways to consistently win and put actual titles on the board. And if you think we are alone in experiencing a down period of years, you're fooling yourself. The Patriots were the gold standard for 20 years but are finding out what life without Tom Brady is like. The Steelers do a really nice job with consistency but even they have as many titles as we do since the turn of the century.
What is this grand plan of Tepper's? Seems to me it was to just throw the most money at the name most hyped for his head coaching vacancy. This thread is totally crazy.
Win or lose, this weekend we are inducting our former franchise QB into the ring of honor and retiring his number. Do you know how rare it is in football for a player to achieve that status? Just my opinion but it seems pretty laughable to be jealous of the Panthers or really any team in this league. Seriously, why even bother being a Giants fan?
This is a good post - I'm unfamiliar in John Mara's role in the Eli acquisition, but he deserves a lot of credit for retaining TC in 2006.
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In comment 15381074 Eric on Li said:
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and also likely didn't watch how they let both the Jets and Texans hang around in games that should have been blowouts. The teams they've played against have scored 14, 7, and 9 points respectively so either their D is the 2000 Ravens or maybe they've had a weak schedule that will eventually balance out?
but I guess this is the way of BBI these days. Darnold has 4 fumbles in 3 games (5 total TO) and he's a comeback story while Jones' 1 turnover so far was basically a career ender.
you are what your record is so I have zero issue giving credit to Rhule for their 3-0 start with the appropriate context. Same as the 5-4 record to finish last year for the NYG. Just don't understand those who can completely write off one due to context but then apply no context to the other. Though at this point that's the expectation around here, everything other teams do is great and everything the NYG do is wrong.
I’m not certain the giants are 3-0 with the Panthers schedule, so that would prove the OP’s point, no?
The Panthers went to a Super Bowl not too long ago and their rebuild has been happening quicker than ours.
it would prove the point as much as it would prove the point that the NYG are on a better track because they won more games last year.
which is to say that neither proves anything.
in terms of the hypothetical presented, I feel confident the NYG will win any games their defense keeps the opposition under 10 points. Which is essentially what happened in all 3 games for Carolina so far (the Jets got a garbage time TD with like a minute left to go from 8 pts to 14).
What does last year have to with the fact the Panthers have a very good chance of winning more games than the Giants this year?
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In comment 15381069 Go Terps said:
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And yeah, the Panthers are a better place to be than the Giants right now, and likely over the next decade or so.
That's a huge stretch. Where is the evidence for that? And what have the Panthers done since 2019 that's so great?
The Panthers have a clear direction and plan on place. The Giants don't.
What’s the plan? They already signed a RB to an enormous contract, which is a no no according to you. Is part of their plan to also sign a mediocre QB to a $30M/per contract next? Because they have to make that decision sooner rather than later. Or are they going to drag it out with Darnold and then have to reset at the QB position in another year? Whatever “plan” they have that is so clear to you seems to go against everything you preach about. But it’s not the Giants so they must be awesome
Carolina has 6 picks total (2 in rounds 1-3)
So right off the bat, NYG is better positioned for the foreseeable draft future.
In what other ways is Carolina better off than us?
The Panthers have drafted well the last two years, that’s how.
9 picks overall with 5 premium?
or
6 picks overall with 2 premium?
The whole Panthers "plan" thing is bullshit. And the Giants are, as a matter of fact, better position to move forward in terms of next year's draft.
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In comment 15381082 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15381074 Eric on Li said:
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and also likely didn't watch how they let both the Jets and Texans hang around in games that should have been blowouts. The teams they've played against have scored 14, 7, and 9 points respectively so either their D is the 2000 Ravens or maybe they've had a weak schedule that will eventually balance out?
but I guess this is the way of BBI these days. Darnold has 4 fumbles in 3 games (5 total TO) and he's a comeback story while Jones' 1 turnover so far was basically a career ender.
you are what your record is so I have zero issue giving credit to Rhule for their 3-0 start with the appropriate context. Same as the 5-4 record to finish last year for the NYG. Just don't understand those who can completely write off one due to context but then apply no context to the other. Though at this point that's the expectation around here, everything other teams do is great and everything the NYG do is wrong.
I’m not certain the giants are 3-0 with the Panthers schedule, so that would prove the OP’s point, no?
The Panthers went to a Super Bowl not too long ago and their rebuild has been happening quicker than ours.
it would prove the point as much as it would prove the point that the NYG are on a better track because they won more games last year.
which is to say that neither proves anything.
in terms of the hypothetical presented, I feel confident the NYG will win any games their defense keeps the opposition under 10 points. Which is essentially what happened in all 3 games for Carolina so far (the Jets got a garbage time TD with like a minute left to go from 8 pts to 14).
What does last year have to with the fact the Panthers have a very good chance of winning more games than the Giants this year?
Did the Panthers have a very good chance of wining more games than the NYG last year when they were 3-2 and the NYG were 0-5? How did that end up?
both of them are losing teams until they have winning records over a full season. if you want to take signs of encouragement from a partial season go right ahead but at least be consistent.
but don't let facts get in the way of a good gettleman bashing.
Oh, and cam newtons mvp year was 2015 and gettleman was the gm at that time. Damn, more of those pesky facts again
This is a good example of "correlation does not equal causation." Just because DG happened to be present when Carolina had a couple of good seasons, doesn't mean he deserves credit for those seasons. In fact, one could argue that he damaged that franchise in his tenure there, similar to what he's doing now.
1. Traded Jon Beason to the Giants - Jon Beason called him unprofessional on the way out the door and said he was taking a "my way or the highway" approach with all of Carolina's veterans. Beason also claimed that DG accused him of faking an injury.
2. Public falling out with the best player in Carolina franchise history - Steve Smith
3. Public falling out with DeAngelo Williams
4. Public falling out with Josh Norman and curiously rescinded his franchise tag in 2017. This is probably where he lost the locker room.
5. Draft blunders - Kelvin Benjamin (2x), Kony Ealy, Devin Funchess, Vernon Butler. Sure, he drafted McCaffery (touched by the hand of God too?) and Bradberry, but that's two good players in 4 drafts from 2014 to 2017.
And the most important part? The players hated the guy. That's why he was canned in July 2017, right before training camp was about to open. Because of "unrest" in the locker room.
How that resume was viewed as worthy of the GM of the NY Giants is beyond any kind of logic.
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Who was influential in convincing his old man that the trade to bring Eli Manning here was needed, and who along with Accorsi, realized that they had to do whatever it took to complete the deal.
Also the guy who when not one single person in this town, not fans, not media, and probably not even many people within that organization still thought Tom Coughlin was the right man for the job, stayed calm and kept Coughlin on.
2 decisions that lead to 2 recent Super Bowls.
I know people here think they are no big deal, especially 2011, but they are damn hard to win. In general, it's just plain hard to win in this league period. Very few franchises find ways to consistently win and put actual titles on the board. And if you think we are alone in experiencing a down period of years, you're fooling yourself. The Patriots were the gold standard for 20 years but are finding out what life without Tom Brady is like. The Steelers do a really nice job with consistency but even they have as many titles as we do since the turn of the century.
What is this grand plan of Tepper's? Seems to me it was to just throw the most money at the name most hyped for his head coaching vacancy. This thread is totally crazy.
Win or lose, this weekend we are inducting our former franchise QB into the ring of honor and retiring his number. Do you know how rare it is in football for a player to achieve that status? Just my opinion but it seems pretty laughable to be jealous of the Panthers or really any team in this league. Seriously, why even bother being a Giants fan?
This is a good post - I'm unfamiliar in John Mara's role in the Eli acquisition, but he deserves a lot of credit for retaining TC in 2006.
Wellington wanted to remain loyal to Collins. John and Accorsi knew to push for Eli.
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In comment 15381073 Chris684 said:
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In comment 15381069 Go Terps said:
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And yeah, the Panthers are a better place to be than the Giants right now, and likely over the next decade or so.
That's a huge stretch. Where is the evidence for that? And what have the Panthers done since 2019 that's so great?
The Panthers have a clear direction and plan on place. The Giants don't.
What’s the plan? They already signed a RB to an enormous contract, which is a no no according to you. Is part of their plan to also sign a mediocre QB to a $30M/per contract next? Because they have to make that decision sooner rather than later. Or are they going to drag it out with Darnold and then have to reset at the QB position in another year? Whatever “plan” they have that is so clear to you seems to go against everything you preach about. But it’s not the Giants so they must be awesome
The CMC contract is kinda easy to get out of after 2023 if it doesn’t work out.
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And yeah, the Panthers are a better place to be than the Giants right now, and likely over the next decade or so.
A lot of these responses reinforce the issues with the Giants. Clinging to historic success to dismiss a current lack of organizational foresight.
The Super Bowls in 2007 & 2011 have no relevance to today. The league has changed. 15-35 under the current GM.
Here is where I’m jealous: an owner who knew that his football operations needed to be overhauled.
Why do so many Giant fans not demand better? A lot of these same Giant fans are Yankee fans who always expect a World Series every year. Where is that standard with the Giants? This team hasn’t won the division since 2011!
And maybe the Panthers plan won’t work, but at least they have one.
Good post, Sean.
"An owner who knew that his football operations needed to be overhauled." Spot on. Panthers will probably be a 9 or 10 win team, nothing on its own to be jealous of. But there is alignment throughout the organization and a plan in place to support a promising young head coach. We could be doing that too.
I don't think John Mara has any clue why this team has won anything for nearly a decade now. If you can't even diagnose the problem you have no chance of finding the solution. And the posts here citing super bowls from 10+ years ago (which I am forever grateful for) are probably similar to how Mara thinks. It worked in the past, so why change anything!?
I'm tired.
Tepper seems to understand the modern game and wants to build an organization that is adaptable and proactive. He wants to understand the trends as they are occurring, not way after they have occurred.
Tepper seems to understand the modern game and wants to build an organization that is adaptable and proactive. He wants to understand the trends as they are occurring, not way after they have occurred.
These are just cliches. Where are you getting this from? What specifically are the Panthers doing that tells you this?
Of course you do. You think everything sucks. Doesn't mean it's true.
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Of course you do. You think everything sucks. Doesn't mean it's true.
I don't think that. I do think the Giants suck, and there's not much to dispel that.
Give me a break jealous if the Panthers?
They beat the Jets barely, Jameis Winston and the Saints, and the Texans with a rookie 3rd rounder..
Lets reevaluate this in a few weeks when Carolina actually plays someone good..
Here is a question do the Panthers have their future qb?
Let me guess -
Andrew Thomas sucks. Xavier McKinney sucks. Matt Peart will never play. Shane Lemieux will never come back from the injury. Darnay Holmes is a non factor. Kadarius Toney will be a bust. Ojulari will never build off his 2 sacks in his first two career games. Aaron Robinson - bust. Elerson Smith - bust. Does that sound right?
The Panthers have one owner, a billionaire hedge fund guy who is having fun with his new toy.
The Giants are owned by a 50/50 partnership, one half is the family business and has 11 members by inheritance who are underfunded by todays NFL ownership standards and run the on field football team picking the GM and the HC and one of the members heads up the Player Personnel department too. The other half has 3 members who are all billionaires by inheritance and seem to be owners in name only, concerned about the business end of the NFL and not involved with the day to day of the football team.
When you think about that why would people be surprised that since Tepper bought the Panthers they have a plan with a singular vision and the Giants have the worst record in the NFL during that time having squandered the #2, #6 and #4 picks in the draft 3 years in row and still employ the GM who supposedly made those picks? It all starts at the top.
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Let me guess -
Andrew Thomas sucks. Xavier McKinney sucks. Matt Peart will never play. Shane Lemieux will never come back from the injury. Darnay Holmes is a non factor. Kadarius Toney will be a bust. Ojulari will never build off his 2 sacks in his first two career games. Aaron Robinson - bust. Elerson Smith - bust. Does that sound right?
Have the drafts been good?
How can they be considered "bad" yet?
And as far as drafts prior to Judge, they matter in the sense that those players are still here, but they don't matter in the context of future drafts. The Jones/Barkley drafts aren't run the same way they were then.
There is factual evidence of that based on the Giants trading back this draft which is something the giants rarely had done and Dave Gettleman never did.
Everyone was saying the Bengals had "awesome drafts" the past 2 years. They are still awful.
And regardless of skill set McCaffrey is going to have a better career. IMO Barkley while a great kid is just softer mentally the McCaffrey. Skill isnt enough in the NFL
Well - because time evolves and ya know, football players mature and maybe get better, those players are actually starting to play better and are playing well through weeks 1 and 2.
But hey - it's always great to say that a draft sucks to feel like you know what you're talking about.
And regardless of skill set McCaffrey is going to have a better career. IMO Barkley while a great kid is just softer mentally the McCaffrey. Skill isnt enough in the NFL
And what has McCaffrey done in the NFL that Barkley hasn't exactly? McCaffrey has been hurt just as much.
I don't remember them looking awful. They also played without their best player. Can you imagine if Saquon was injured and they Giants lost to the Panthers...people like you around here would be like "well of course Jones isn't going to play well; it is the line ; Saquon is hurt blah blah.
What do drafts prior to Joe Judge being here have to do with anything?
The last 2 drafts are looking fine right now. A little bit incomplete but they have improved.
See, you want people on the other side of the argument not to talk about the past, then when they talk about the future, you bring things back to the past.
Huh? Because the guy running the drafts is still there. And you're already giving them a good grade on this year's draft? If I point to Toney, you'll say "it's early!" Well, yeah, it's too early to judge ANY of the picks this year.
Last year's draft looks pretty good, that doesn't prove that the drafting issues are solved.
I think it's WAY too premature to talk about how good the Panthers are, given that they've played 2 teams likely vying for next year's top pick, but that doesn't mean that the Giants are on a better path.
And regardless of skill set McCaffrey is going to have a better career. IMO Barkley while a great kid is just softer mentally the McCaffrey. Skill isnt enough in the NFL
Barkley is softer than mccaffrey? based on what?
Our offense, which our GM put together, went up and down the field against the lovefest defense of WFT.
Everyone was saying the Bengals had "awesome drafts" the past 2 years. They are still awful.
Their QB got hurt last year and was out for the season.
We see rookies contributing throughout the league but our guys are in year 2 and 3 and still not making consistent impact.
“Unlike you” I actually talk to people in the league and it’s hard to find people who are high on the giants drafts.
Our offense, which our GM put together, went up and down the field against the lovefest defense of WFT.
The players on the defense aren’t at fault at all? It’s amazing you still cape for Gettleman. Going right down with the ship.
Then they beat the Saints minus 7 (that's right 7!!!) offensive coaches.
Then they beat the Texans (clearly one of the worst teams in football) WITH their backup QB.
I mean - I get it - you play the games you have on your schedule and kudos to them for taking care of business...but I don't think anyone thinks the Panthers are world beaters or a team to jealous of...
The gameplan on defense was awful. The in game decisions on offense to go conservative were awful. The loss is squarely on the coach, anyone with eyes would agree.
Nope. I said Jones would play better this year and take the next step. I said Thomas would be fine. That looks like it's starting to happen is it not?
The gameplan on defense was awful. The in game decisions on offense to go conservative were awful. The loss is squarely on the coach, anyone with eyes would agree.
Where did I say Judge wasn’t at fault? Multiple things can be true at the same time.
And re: the bengals.
Burrow wasn’t good week 2 but he was good week 1. It’s his 12th career game and only 2nd coming off a major knee injury. He gets more leeway than Jones at this point in his career given his performance last year as a rookie with no offseason.
Josh Allen finally put it all together in year 3. He was better in year 2 but still wildly inconsistent. Then - he took off.
Gives Jones the year and we'll see how he's progressing. We'll know about weeks 8-10 if he's our franchise quarterback.
Oh yeah - what are the excuses?
Nope. I said Jones would play better this year and take the next step. I said Thomas would be fine. That looks like it's starting to happen is it not?
Jones had one good game this year and you think you’re right? Comical. Weren’t you saying this team was going to be good last year?
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same with Terps, saying I'm 'caping for Gettleman" and going down with the ship.
Nope. I said Jones would play better this year and take the next step. I said Thomas would be fine. That looks like it's starting to happen is it not?
Jones had one good game this year and you think you’re right? Comical. Weren’t you saying this team was going to be good last year?
Nope - I said they'd win 6 games. Which they did.
So when are we supposed to start saying that Jones is playing well then? After 7 good games in a row?
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Year 9.
Oh yeah - what are the excuses?
Read all the BS you've spewed in this thread.
And you guys want Mr. Magoo to make those picks next year for us? Are you guys fucking insane? Enjoy your worst record in the league over the past 3 years. Idiots.
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In comment 15381180 ryanmkeane said:
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same with Terps, saying I'm 'caping for Gettleman" and going down with the ship.
Nope. I said Jones would play better this year and take the next step. I said Thomas would be fine. That looks like it's starting to happen is it not?
Jones had one good game this year and you think you’re right? Comical. Weren’t you saying this team was going to be good last year?
Nope - I said they'd win 6 games. Which they did.
So when are we supposed to start saying that Jones is playing well then? After 7 good games in a row?
When he does it more often than he plays poorly? Not really a difficult concept.
You guys were the ones that said Andrew Thomas sucks, and that he'd be a bust. You guys were the ones that said Daniel Jones can't play quarterback.
But perhaps Brady vs Garrett is a reason to wish Mara was more like Tepper.
Getting a guy like Garrett, or Shurmur, or McCarthy, or Shula, etc is just so on brand with Mara. Fortunately in about a decade there won't be many fossils left in the field for him to add to the collection.
You guys were the ones that said Andrew Thomas sucks, and that he'd be a bust. You guys were the ones that said Daniel Jones can't play quarterback.
I like Thomas. I've defended Jones. But he's played well against the Redskins his entire career. Let me see him play that well for an entire season against a variety of opponents.
Oh. And we still lost that game. Something this franchise is very familiar with over the past decade. Losing.
Some of you guys never learn, and deserve this.
What does last year have to with the fact the Panthers have a very good chance of winning more games than the Giants this year?
Sham had the early lead on Secretariet, too.... - ( New Window )
Who said let’s not see how it goes? As of now Jones has been a QB not worthy of the 6th pick. That’s not a debate. If he plays like he did against Washington the rest of the year that changes things but at this moment he has not been a good pick.
You want me to yes you to death? jones playing better ? You made your mind up about that already huh? i don't know you are still shilling for Dave gettl. This guy clearly sucks. Darnold show up on a new team and goes 3-0 with 100 QB rating. Can you imagine if Jones and Giants did that. You would be rubbing it in already about "told you so". Somehow when the Panthers do it it's whatevs "still early".
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What does last year have to with the fact the Panthers have a very good chance of winning more games than the Giants this year?
And the Giants have a very good chance of winning more games than the Panthers. Why not wait a few games? Why such a hurry to bury the Giants? Sham had the early lead on Secretariet, too.... - ( New Window )
Take a look at the schedule post Falcons. This teams not winning more than 5 or 6 games.
What excuses are you talking about?
10 years of “look we won two games in a row that’s going to carry over to next year”
How some shill for mediocrity is beyond me. Have some pride
It’s not 10 years of wait and see.
This thread is about being jealous of the Carolina Panthers of all franchises. I’ve asked a bunch of times specifically for evidence of this grand plan they have for the future and all I’ve gotten is a bunch of cliches. Meanwhile I’ve pointed out that the Giants have more and better picks than Carolina next year. Youve told me that doesn’t matter because of past drafts that are now largely irrelevant.
I’ll ask again. What makes the Panthers so great? What are they doing specifically that all of you have keyed on that’s going to be so critical to their future success?
Our offense, which our GM put together, went up and down the field against the lovefest defense of WFT.
And the WFT offense went up and down the field against the NYG defense which was supposed to be the strength of this club. Perhaps neither D played great that game. Hence why some of us aren't in a hurry to proclaim the corner has been turned
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It’s not 10 years of wait and see.
This thread is about being jealous of the Carolina Panthers of all franchises. I’ve asked a bunch of times specifically for evidence of this grand plan they have for the future and all I’ve gotten is a bunch of cliches. Meanwhile I’ve pointed out that the Giants have more and better picks than Carolina next year. Youve told me that doesn’t matter because of past drafts that are now largely irrelevant.
I’ll ask again. What makes the Panthers so great? What are they doing specifically that all of you have keyed on that’s going to be so critical to their future success?
Look at their defense and how they invested in it. They got Darnold for pennies in the dollar who looks improved from not having Gase. Good young weapons on offense. They also have nearly $60 million in cap space next year.
More importantly, they beat the teams they should beat. Something the Giants haven’t done the past several years.
If they have reversed their fortunes in a year by getting the right coach, beefing up the D, and getting a solid if not potential franchise QB for pennies on the dollar...that would be one of the biggest stories of the year if it holds.
Look at their defense and how they invested in it. They got Darnold for pennies in the dollar who looks improved from not having Gase. Good young weapons on offense. They also have nearly $60 million in cap space next year.
More importantly, they beat the teams they should beat. Something the Giants haven’t done the past several years.
last year the Panthers D was bottom half of the league so maybe we should hold off on crowning their achievement? their defense looks like world beaters because 2 of their 3 games were against rookie QBs making their literal first NFL starts.
Darnold does look improved but don't you think it's a bit of a concern that he has 4 fumbles in 3 games?
as someone who appreciates rebuilt defenses "beating the teams you're supposed to beat" and subtle improvements from young QBs, I imagine you were pretty optimistic from last year's 5-4 finish?
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10 years of “look we won two games in a row that’s going to carry over to next year”
How some shill for mediocrity is beyond me. Have some pride
Shilling for other team's mediocrity is way more honorable.
LMAO agree.
THis post is fucking insane. the panthers BARELY beat the jets. the jets were in the game with a rookie in FIRST START. and the jets are PITIFUL.
Jealous of carolina? Its a LONG season, lets see how they finish. secondly, the panthers were IMO in better shape roster wise than giants. that being said, it doesnt even matter. the panthers arent a very good team. the sneak by two crap teams and now we should be jealous?
if im jealous of anyone its KC. they are built to be consistent winners and have a god at QB
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but Tepper isn’t a “be patient” guy like Mara. Who keeps dragging out that damn, annoying refrain every year - be patient Giants fans, I think we’re going in the right direction…
Tepper seems to understand the modern game and wants to build an organization that is adaptable and proactive. He wants to understand the trends as they are occurring, not way after they have occurred.
These are just cliches. Where are you getting this from? What specifically are the Panthers doing that tells you this?
You do understand that Tepper was/is an expert at risk management and built investment decisions based on complicated risk model and analytics. And he has stated that he wants the Panthers to be run similarly and become the state of the art organization in terms of analytics.
I mean, it's all out there. I can certainly link articles if you can't find anything...
and those praising the Panthers right now would say the same shit they said about the NYG at the end of last year...
"beat a winning team"
"3 games isn't a full season"
etc.
etc.
perhaps, and im just spitballing here, there's a middle ground where there can be positive takeaways from even small achievements if kept in context?
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Look at their defense and how they invested in it. They got Darnold for pennies in the dollar who looks improved from not having Gase. Good young weapons on offense. They also have nearly $60 million in cap space next year.
More importantly, they beat the teams they should beat. Something the Giants haven’t done the past several years.
last year the Panthers D was bottom half of the league so maybe we should hold off on crowning their achievement? their defense looks like world beaters because 2 of their 3 games were against rookie QBs making their literal first NFL starts.
Darnold does look improved but don't you think it's a bit of a concern that he has 4 fumbles in 3 games?
as someone who appreciates rebuilt defenses "beating the teams you're supposed to beat" and subtle improvements from young QBs, I imagine you were pretty optimistic from last year's 5-4 finish?
Their defense has young promising players in multiple positions. Burns, Brown, Reddick, Horn, Chinn.
The Giants have not drafted in nearly the same way.
Last years 5-4 finish was a mirage if you’re objective. And they lost 3 of the last 4, that’s kinda important. They beat the backup QBs they should have beat but outside of Seattle they couldn’t handle the better competition. Carolinas may be a mirage as well, but I’d bet they win multiple games more than the the Giants this year.
he wasnt outmaneuvered. my god you guys make shit up.
rhule called to ask for a match. the giants liked judge. let the panthers win something before we suck rhules dick eh?
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It’s not 10 years of wait and see.
This thread is about being jealous of the Carolina Panthers of all franchises. I’ve asked a bunch of times specifically for evidence of this grand plan they have for the future and all I’ve gotten is a bunch of cliches. Meanwhile I’ve pointed out that the Giants have more and better picks than Carolina next year. Youve told me that doesn’t matter because of past drafts that are now largely irrelevant.
I’ll ask again. What makes the Panthers so great? What are they doing specifically that all of you have keyed on that’s going to be so critical to their future success?
Mentioned earlier, but look at the offensive coordinator hires, both made at the same time. Jason Garrett vs Joe Brady. Garrett is a familiar and comfortable hire, stuck in the past with an archaic system. Joe Brady is going to be a head coach sooner than later, but it would have required ownership taking one step out of their comfort zone to make that hire.
Panthers were 6-10 last year but 9-7 against the spread. Before you shoot that down, NFL betting markets are incredibly efficient and a good reflection of expectations for a team. 9-7 against the spread tells me you have a smart coaching staff making good in-game decisions and outperforming expectations. This has carried over into the new season with them off to a good start. Owner/GM/Coaching staff all in lock step. Looks promising to me. And plenty of cap space. We are right up against the cap next season, alongside teams in that category that are among the best in the league and are all-in for a super bowl. Horrible sign.
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In comment 15381218 Go Terps said:
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10 years of “look we won two games in a row that’s going to carry over to next year”
How some shill for mediocrity is beyond me. Have some pride
Shilling for other team's mediocrity is way more honorable.
Shilling for the Panthers and saying they rebuilt quicker than we have is not the same thing. Keep avoiding the facts in front of your face.
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In comment 15381247 ajr2456 said:
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Look at their defense and how they invested in it. They got Darnold for pennies in the dollar who looks improved from not having Gase. Good young weapons on offense. They also have nearly $60 million in cap space next year.
More importantly, they beat the teams they should beat. Something the Giants haven’t done the past several years.
last year the Panthers D was bottom half of the league so maybe we should hold off on crowning their achievement? their defense looks like world beaters because 2 of their 3 games were against rookie QBs making their literal first NFL starts.
Darnold does look improved but don't you think it's a bit of a concern that he has 4 fumbles in 3 games?
as someone who appreciates rebuilt defenses "beating the teams you're supposed to beat" and subtle improvements from young QBs, I imagine you were pretty optimistic from last year's 5-4 finish?
Their defense has young promising players in multiple positions. Burns, Brown, Reddick, Horn, Chinn.
The Giants have not drafted in nearly the same way.
Last years 5-4 finish was a mirage if you’re objective. And they lost 3 of the last 4, that’s kinda important. They beat the backup QBs they should have beat but outside of Seattle they couldn’t handle the better competition. Carolinas may be a mirage as well, but I’d bet they win multiple games more than the the Giants this year.
horn? promising? dudes played 2.5 games and is hurt. burns is solid but lets not act like he looks any better than rest of league. reddick was a free agent signing and has been WILDLY overrated his entire career. chinn is a player for sure. giants have JUST HAS MUCH in terms of young exciting players on defense. its been 2 fucking games. you guys all need to chill. the panthers are 3-0 awesome...watch how they fold like a cheap suit next 3 weeks and IF They dont, ill give em some credit but it takes more than beating the shitstain jets, garbage texans with mills at QB and winston
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In comment 15381117 bw in dc said:
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but Tepper isn’t a “be patient” guy like Mara. Who keeps dragging out that damn, annoying refrain every year - be patient Giants fans, I think we’re going in the right direction…
Tepper seems to understand the modern game and wants to build an organization that is adaptable and proactive. He wants to understand the trends as they are occurring, not way after they have occurred.
These are just cliches. Where are you getting this from? What specifically are the Panthers doing that tells you this?
You do understand that Tepper was/is an expert at risk management and built investment decisions based on complicated risk model and analytics. And he has stated that he wants the Panthers to be run similarly and become the state of the art organization in terms of analytics.
I mean, it's all out there. I can certainly link articles if you can't find anything...
Oh ok, so that, plus the articles you'll google means that that success will translate in the football world and Tepper can't fail.
Really it sounds like some of you treat the word "analytics" like a baby blanket that keeps you safe.
Horn may have only played 2.5 games but he won the starting job as a rookie then played well in those two games. That’s not meaningless
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In comment 15381223 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15381218 Go Terps said:
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10 years of “look we won two games in a row that’s going to carry over to next year”
How some shill for mediocrity is beyond me. Have some pride
Shilling for other team's mediocrity is way more honorable.
Shilling for the Panthers and saying they rebuilt quicker than we have is not the same thing. Keep avoiding the facts in front of your face.
So the Panthers are completely rebuilt? They've arrived? They're 3-0, tip of the cap to them. The season is 17 games.
Let me tell you something, if this is the team the Panthers hope to compete for a Super Bowl with, they're going to need a hell of a lot more than "analytics" to help them.
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In comment 15381223 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15381218 Go Terps said:
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10 years of “look we won two games in a row that’s going to carry over to next year”
How some shill for mediocrity is beyond me. Have some pride
Shilling for other team's mediocrity is way more honorable.
Shilling for the Panthers and saying they rebuilt quicker than we have is not the same thing. Keep avoiding the facts in front of your face.
it's a fact that they've "rebuilt" because they are 3-0? Was it also a fact last year when they started 3-2?
Talk about praising mediocrity, call me old fashioned but I'd probably wait until a playoff appearance before considering it a matter of fact that any rebuild is successful. And it's probably not until there are multiple winning seasons as opposed to one off successes like the NYG in 16 or CHI in 18.
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In comment 15381267 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 15381223 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15381218 Go Terps said:
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10 years of “look we won two games in a row that’s going to carry over to next year”
How some shill for mediocrity is beyond me. Have some pride
Shilling for other team's mediocrity is way more honorable.
Shilling for the Panthers and saying they rebuilt quicker than we have is not the same thing. Keep avoiding the facts in front of your face.
So the Panthers are completely rebuilt? They've arrived? They're 3-0, tip of the cap to them. The season is 17 games.
Let me tell you something, if this is the team the Panthers hope to compete for a Super Bowl with, they're going to need a hell of a lot more than "analytics" to help them.
Who said they’re completely rebuilt? Or that this team is taking them to the super bowl? You’re making up arguments nobody has made.
They’ve gotten to where they are quicker than the Giants.
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In comment 15381285 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15381267 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 15381223 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15381218 Go Terps said:
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10 years of “look we won two games in a row that’s going to carry over to next year”
How some shill for mediocrity is beyond me. Have some pride
Shilling for other team's mediocrity is way more honorable.
Shilling for the Panthers and saying they rebuilt quicker than we have is not the same thing. Keep avoiding the facts in front of your face.
So the Panthers are completely rebuilt? They've arrived? They're 3-0, tip of the cap to them. The season is 17 games.
Let me tell you something, if this is the team the Panthers hope to compete for a Super Bowl with, they're going to need a hell of a lot more than "analytics" to help them.
Who said they’re completely rebuilt? Or that this team is taking them to the super bowl? You’re making up arguments nobody has made.
They’ve gotten to where they are quicker than the Giants.
You said "rebuilt" meaning the rebuild is complete.
but Tepper isn’t a “be patient” guy like Mara. Who keeps dragging out that damn, annoying refrain every year - be patient Giants fans, I think we’re going in the right direction…
Tepper seems to understand the modern game and wants to build an organization that is adaptable and proactive. He wants to understand the trends as they are occurring, not way after they have occurred.
These are just cliches. Where are you getting this from? What specifically are the Panthers doing that tells you this?
You do understand that Tepper was/is an expert at risk management and built investment decisions based on complicated risk model and analytics. And he has stated that he wants the Panthers to be run similarly and become the state of the art organization in terms of analytics.
I mean, it's all out there. I can certainly link articles if you can't find anything...
Oh ok, so that, plus the articles you'll google means that that success will translate in the football world and Tepper can't fail.
Really it sounds like some of you treat the word "analytics" like a baby blanket that keeps you safe.
I didn't say there was guaranteed success. I suggested that Tepper's mindset and business approach fit the way the game is moving today. He's all in on finding the best, most reliable variables to help build the best football teams.
When he talks about football it's like listening to someone who is the complete opposite of Mara.
Horn may have only played 2.5 games but he won the starting job as a rookie then played well in those two games. That’s not meaningless
he earned a starting job because they have dogshit else in secondary. do you watch the panthers? I have a few friends who are panther fans and they are not on their knees for tepper and the team as much as you are.
again, they havea couple nice players as we have discussed but lets not act like they are the 86 bears....the jury is still out on darnold too. We have no idea if the panthers are truly solidified and turned around...
Who said they’re completely rebuilt?
In comment 15381302 ajr2456 said:
Shilling for the Panthers and saying they rebuilt quicker than we have
In comment 15381302 ajr2456 said:
They’ve gotten to where they are quicker than the Giants.
Which is where exactly? Does 3-0 get them to the playoffs? Where did starting 3-2 last year get them?
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but Tepper isn’t a “be patient” guy like Mara. Who keeps dragging out that damn, annoying refrain every year - be patient Giants fans, I think we’re going in the right direction…
Tepper seems to understand the modern game and wants to build an organization that is adaptable and proactive. He wants to understand the trends as they are occurring, not way after they have occurred.
These are just cliches. Where are you getting this from? What specifically are the Panthers doing that tells you this?
You do understand that Tepper was/is an expert at risk management and built investment decisions based on complicated risk model and analytics. And he has stated that he wants the Panthers to be run similarly and become the state of the art organization in terms of analytics.
I mean, it's all out there. I can certainly link articles if you can't find anything...
Oh ok, so that, plus the articles you'll google means that that success will translate in the football world and Tepper can't fail.
Really it sounds like some of you treat the word "analytics" like a baby blanket that keeps you safe.
I didn't say there was guaranteed success. I suggested that Tepper's mindset and business approach fit the way the game is moving today. He's all in on finding the best, most reliable variables to help build the best football teams.
When he talks about football it's like listening to someone who is the complete opposite of Mara.
Ok, so your evidence of this grand plan is subjective and anecdotal at best.
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In comment 15381267 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 15381223 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15381218 Go Terps said:
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.
10 years of “look we won two games in a row that’s going to carry over to next year”
How some shill for mediocrity is beyond me. Have some pride
Shilling for other team's mediocrity is way more honorable.
Shilling for the Panthers and saying they rebuilt quicker than we have is not the same thing. Keep avoiding the facts in front of your face.
it's a fact that they've "rebuilt" because they are 3-0? Was it also a fact last year when they started 3-2?
Talk about praising mediocrity, call me old fashioned but I'd probably wait until a playoff appearance before considering it a matter of fact that any rebuild is successful. And it's probably not until there are multiple winning seasons as opposed to one off successes like the NYG in 16 or CHI in 18.
I’m not sure what about they have a lot of good young players, modern offensive coordinator and a modern head coach is so god damn difficult to grasp.
Nobody is saying they’re completely rebuilt or primed to make the playoffs but if you can’t tell they’re ahead of the Giants you’re blinded by your fandom. We’ll see in a couple weeks.
Yea, I will quote it thanks.
When you ask specifically what the plan is and someone says "analytics" you know it's just a security blanket.
There is a lot more to football than analytics.
2 - i don't think rhule is god's gift as a head coach. i don't always agree with his decisions not to go for it on 4th and short. but he assembled an excellent OC and DC. those people here who hate garrett but are scoffing at being jealous of rhule, rhule would have brought those same coaches here. you can't separate judge from garrett and graham. and you can't separate rhule from brady and snow.
3 - carolina has much better team building and drafting than the giants. DG is a disaster with free agent signings and picks. some people here are in denial about that but it's true. carolina is not. this year they signed dan arnold a far superior player to the corpse of kyle rudolph for half the cost (he's also better than engram). they went out and signed reddick, who looks GREAT, to a deal up to 8M. the giants pissed away money on evan engram and booker alone. these are the kinds of things where rhule seems to excel so far. rhule would have overruled DG on everything or had DG replaced with his guy. imagine how much better tha giants would be right now making better decisions with free agents. and you can't distance judge from DG at this point when it comes to roster decisions.
so yes i'm jealous of carolina right now. they are headed in the right direction and the giants are wandering around in the dark.
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He’s one of the most skilled pass rushers in the league. He had 7.5 and 9 sacks the last two years - his first two in the league. If Burns is only solid than what is Leonard Williams? Good grief.
Horn may have only played 2.5 games but he won the starting job as a rookie then played well in those two games. That’s not meaningless
he earned a starting job because they have dogshit else in secondary. do you watch the panthers? I have a few friends who are panther fans and they are not on their knees for tepper and the team as much as you are.
again, they havea couple nice players as we have discussed but lets not act like they are the 86 bears....the jury is still out on darnold too. We have no idea if the panthers are truly solidified and turned around...
Answer the question, if Burns is only solid what is Leonard Williams?
Horn is a good young player, despite what you may think.
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You can sarcastically quote tweet analytics all you want if it makes you feel better but this is what smart and successful organizations are implementing into their game plans and roster building philosophies. An inability to think outside the box and adapt to the modern realities of the game is precisely why we're stuck in this cycle of losing.
Yea, I will quote it thanks.
When you ask specifically what the plan is and someone says "analytics" you know it's just a security blanket.
There is a lot more to football than analytics.
Of course there is, it's not baseball. But if you're dismissing it outright then you're not getting it
Above I mentioned the Joe Brady hire compared to us hiring Garrett. I mentioned an efficient use of cap space compared to us being capped out having to restructure contracts to move money down the line, only furthering our issues in the future. I mentioned a coach that understands making plus expected value in-game decisions and isn't kicking 56 yard field goals on 4th and 3.
Now who's being vague? There is nothing you can point to to suggest we are pointed in the right direction. All I've seen you say is "we'll see, long season." We've been saying the same shit for years. Open your eyes to what is happening in front of you and put fan bias aside for a second
so enough with the it takes time.... make the right calls for coach, gm, players, and likely you will win. fk up any of those and it starts to get harder.
what is fking total comedy is people who have been bullish the giants since 2017 talking to posters who have been bearish and right since then like they are off base.
Not a chance in hell.
Nobody is saying they’re completely rebuilt or primed to make the playoffs but if you can’t tell they’re ahead of the Giants you’re blinded by your fandom. We’ll see in a couple weeks.
Some honest questions for you.
Do you think it's equally fair to think the NYG have good young players?
Is it fair to think Judge is a modern head coach?
Was it fair to think it looked like the NYG had a modern DC last year?
Or is it only fair for those opinions to be had about other teams?
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In comment 15381307 Kyle in NY said:
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You can sarcastically quote tweet analytics all you want if it makes you feel better but this is what smart and successful organizations are implementing into their game plans and roster building philosophies. An inability to think outside the box and adapt to the modern realities of the game is precisely why we're stuck in this cycle of losing.
Yea, I will quote it thanks.
When you ask specifically what the plan is and someone says "analytics" you know it's just a security blanket.
There is a lot more to football than analytics.
Of course there is, it's not baseball. But if you're dismissing it outright then you're not getting it
Above I mentioned the Joe Brady hire compared to us hiring Garrett. I mentioned an efficient use of cap space compared to us being capped out having to restructure contracts to move money down the line, only furthering our issues in the future. I mentioned a coach that understands making plus expected value in-game decisions and isn't kicking 56 yard field goals on 4th and 3.
Now who's being vague? There is nothing you can point to to suggest we are pointed in the right direction. All I've seen you say is "we'll see, long season." We've been saying the same shit for years. Open your eyes to what is happening in front of you and put fan bias aside for a second
Well no, in this thread I've mentioned several times in terms of talent acquisition the Giants are set up better than the Panthers and just about anyone in the league next year via the draft with 9 picks and 5 premium picks. Is that not "planning" on the Giants part?
That's not me or them sitting back talking about past Super Bowl glory, is it?
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I’m not sure what about they have a lot of good young players, modern offensive coordinator and a modern head coach is so god damn difficult to grasp.
Nobody is saying they’re completely rebuilt or primed to make the playoffs but if you can’t tell they’re ahead of the Giants you’re blinded by your fandom. We’ll see in a couple weeks.
Some honest questions for you.
Do you think it's equally fair to think the NYG have good young players?
Is it fair to think Judge is a modern head coach?
Was it fair to think it looked like the NYG had a modern DC last year?
Or is it only fair for those opinions to be had about other teams?
1) What good young players do the Giants have that are long term pieces on defense? McKinney and Lawrence? Who else has proven anything?
2) Judge is not a modern head coach. It’s clear in his decision making.
3) advanced analytics were unkind to the Giants defense last year, which left open the possibility for regression.
Not a chance in hell.
On this we agree - this is a key area where Carolina did a lot better than we did. But just like Judge kicked Columbo to the curb if he's the right guy he will make the adjustment needed. I have 0 faith in Garrett but they did certainly make a lot of positive adjustments from week 1 to week 2.
Not a chance in hell.
So for just money Mara could have matched the Panthers and brought in Rhule and satisfied all the talking heads.
Instead he passed and hired a little known special teams coordinator from the Pats with no HC experience and you people think Mara has a problem with risk?
That doesn't make a ton of sense does it? I'd argue he took a pretty huge risk.
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Might be one of the top things to be jealous about. Does anyone have any confidence Mara and Gettleman would make a forward thinking hire, that came with a ton of risk, like that?
Not a chance in hell.
So for just money Mara could have matched the Panthers and brought in Rhule and satisfied all the talking heads.
Instead he passed and hired a little known special teams coordinator from the Pats with no HC experience and you people think Mara has a problem with risk?
That doesn't make a ton of sense does it? I'd argue he took a pretty huge risk.
Until you look at how they arrived at Joe Judge. If Judge isn’t part of Bill’s coaching tree and have the old school football guy mentality do the Giants still hire him?
The Bills
The Bucs
The Browns
They each did it differently, but these are the teams that Giants fans should be looking at to carve out a path from the shit hole they have created for themselves.
There are many organizations that have proven to be better run over the past 10 years. The Panthers aren't one of them.
If your frame of reference is the past 2 years, they will have 1 additional win than us provided we beat the Falcons.
A very interesting point, noting a 10 year history when the original post specifically calls out enormous changes made 2-3 years ago.
Giants need success on the football field. If you've played the game in an organized arena, you recognize good signs pointing toward winning trend emerging, towards ascension to a team capable of earning a playoff spot, and more. Right now, there are few outside of how they tend to perform vs WFT and one game where they out-slugged the Seahawks at their own game.
Right now, I see a team the first two opponents have figured out on film. Now, the Giants really need to clean up their fundamentals, discipline, and focus, and the coordinators have to get outside their boxes, quickly. Because their players need to be put in a better position to execute, but they've got to clean up their play on the field quickly.
gidiefor : Mod : 8:54 am : link : reply
and they looked very, very ordinary after that happened
Darnold is good when there is no pressure on him -- the knock against him is that he comes up small in big spots
...
BrettNYG10 : 8:54 am : link : reply
I'm jealous they lost their star running back and were able to adjust instead of using it as an excuse.
Brett, absolutely.
1) What good young players do the Giants have that are long term pieces on defense? McKinney and Lawrence? Who else has proven anything?
By definition if you have young players they likely haven't proven much...because they are young. And the NYG starting 22 last year was I believe the youngest in football.
To answer your question though in terms who I believe the. good young defensive pieces are I think McKinney, Lawrence, Williams, Bradberry, Martinez are multi-year positive impact starters. Peppers, Ojulari, and Jackson each have a chance too. None of those guys making a pro bowl or two as Giants would be a huge shock and I believe at least 3 or 4 of them have already made pro bowls in their careers. I've been a Brian Burns fan since he spurned UM for FSU so I'd probably take him over everyone on that list with the possible exceptions of Bradberry/Williams. He's the player I was hoping would fall in 2019 when they ended up with Lawrence.
Minor aside - over the last 10-15 years I've stopped believing the word "long term" has a place in the NFL at least for non-QBs (steve smith, nicks, kenny phillips, justin tuck, jpp, cruz, obj, collins all looked destined for long careers here and we know how that went). imo you either have guys who are a net positive impact (with hopefully 1 or 2 true stars sprinkled in) who you expect to start for multiple seasons or replacement level placeholders who other teams target and expose regularly. The key is minimizing the latter.
In comment 15381340 ajr2456 said:
I don't agree that this is clearly defined yet. Defensively the NYG philosophy has trended towards modern analytical best practices for several years investing most heavily in coverage units - just like BAL/NE.
On the offensive side Garrett is the antiquated piece that doesn't fit and how Judge handles him will be very telling. IMO it's probably the key factor to how this season plays out. It is squarely on Judge to do what needs to be done to have more offensive performances like last Thursday and more defensive performances like last year. Modern coaches know how to adapt to optimize their teams performance.
In comment 15381340 ajr2456 said:
the possibility of regression is part and parcel to success. if you succeed there is a chance for regression if you don't succeed, no regression. Adding Jackson and Ojulari in particular were efforts at hedging that regression. Along with the fact that as mentioned above it was a very young team last year so expecting some individuals to progress if others were due to regress.
For me personally I wasn’t getting into a deeper topic of the franchise and all of its components… All I know is right now they are undefeated and look good doing it… with a young quarterback who at least for the moment appears to be resurrected in a good nucleus of players.
They also have a coach that many teams, including the Giants, wanted. So yes, right now I wish we were in their position as opposed to winless and once again hoping we can scratch out a win this week
They’ll all be 30 or older by the team this team maybe is ready to compete for a title. I wouldn’t consider those “good young players”
For me personally I wasn’t getting into a deeper topic of the franchise and all of its components… All I know is right now they are undefeated and look good doing it… with a young quarterback who at least for the moment appears to be resurrected in a good nucleus of players.
They also have a coach that many teams, including the Giants, wanted. So yes, right now I wish we were in their position as opposed to winless and once again hoping we can scratch out a win this week
imo there can be a distinction between being jealous of a 3-0 record (who wouldn't rather be 3-0?) and urging some caution about the team's underlying situation.
I was jealous of their 3-2 record last year (seriously, there are probably even posts if you search for them) but then I was the opposite of jealous when they lost 9 of their last 11 games.
So far I am not jealous of Darnold's performance relative to Jones, even with them having Brady and us saddled with Garrett.
I am jealous of their defensive performance - they are 3-0 right now because their defense is holding their opponents to 10 points per game - which would set a record for ppg allowed if it continued.
But I'm inclined to believe that record setting pace is more likely to be an outlier result of playing 2 rookie QB's in their first NFL starts (and Winston) than the even more outlier possibility that they are the best defense of all time. I'm jealous of their record and Joe Brady but not much else.
As well realize that #8 is a franchise QB we are great shape for next ten season.
The last game really laid Judge low in my estimation. Just completely out coached. He really has to do something besides look like some big fat oaf that curses out refs when a call goes against him. And fuck your time outs. If you are a Beichek disciple when the offense was on the field at some point, last game, you should rounded all of them up with a white board in your hand and drew up some X's and O's right in the middle of the game.
They’ll all be 30 or older by the team this team maybe is ready to compete for a title. I wouldn’t consider those “good young players”
Ok so weighted by age of starting players u27, the good young players on Carolina are Burns (23), Brown (23), Chinn (23), Horn (21)?
And qualifying Giants would be Lawrence (22), McKinney (21), Ojulari (21)? Crowder (24) or Love (23) maybe too?
And slightly older on both sides Peppers (25), Adoree Jackson (26), Carter (25), and Donte Jackson (25)?
Burns is the standout of that u27 group but the nyg overall talent base isn't in a different galaxy. And I think they have the edge in the a27/28 group (I'd take Bradberry, Williams, Martinez > Thompson, Reddick).
The stats from this year obviously lean Carolina's way right now but everyone mentioned above except Horn and Reddick were on Carolina last year, when the NYG defense was a lot better over a full year.
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Are 28 and 27 respectively. Williams is 27.
They’ll all be 30 or older by the team this team maybe is ready to compete for a title. I wouldn’t consider those “good young players”
Ok so weighted by age of starting players u27, the good young players on Carolina are Burns (23), Brown (23), Chinn (23), Horn (21)?
And qualifying Giants would be Lawrence (22), McKinney (21), Ojulari (21)? Crowder (24) or Love (23) maybe too?
And slightly older on both sides Peppers (25), Adoree Jackson (26), Carter (25), and Donte Jackson (25)?
Burns is the standout of that u27 group but the nyg overall talent base isn't in a different galaxy. And I think they have the edge in the a27/28 group (I'd take Bradberry, Williams, Martinez > Thompson, Reddick).
The stats from this year obviously lean Carolina's way right now but everyone mentioned above except Horn and Reddick were on Carolina last year, when the NYG defense was a lot better over a full year.
You're really reaching if you are talking up this D. They have looked absolutely awful. And what is this 3 years now thay looked completely jv in weeks 1 and 2. Looked horrible against Dallas week 2 that got Eli benched.
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In comment 15381180 ryanmkeane said:
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same with Terps, saying I'm 'caping for Gettleman" and going down with the ship.
Nope. I said Jones would play better this year and take the next step. I said Thomas would be fine. That looks like it's starting to happen is it not?
Jones had one good game this year and you think you’re right? Comical. Weren’t you saying this team was going to be good last year?
Nope - I said they'd win 6 games. Which they did.
So when are we supposed to start saying that Jones is playing well then? After 7 good games in a row?
I mean, good QBs play 7 good games in a row all the time. If Jones is as good as you say, that shouldn't be a problem for him.
Darnold is young and playing very well.
D is solid.
I believe they are the only NFL team to not play from behind this season.
you all can twist yourselves into pretzel knots trying to minimize the Panthers 3-0 record... and again, I don't think they are some juggernaut of the NFL... but they are in better overall shape than we are and considering we sort of started from the same spot, that sucks.
And what has McCaffrey done in the NFL that Barkley hasn't exactly? McCaffrey has been hurt just as much.
C'mon man, McCaffrey never missed a game in his first 3 seasons. Last year was the first season he ever missed a game. As far as this current injury is concerned, the latest reports I've heard is that it will only be a 2-3 week thing.
Darnold is young and playing very well.
D is solid.
I believe they are the only NFL team to not play from behind this season.
you all can twist yourselves into pretzel knots trying to minimize the Panthers 3-0 record... and again, I don't think they are some juggernaut of the NFL... but they are in better overall shape than we are and considering we sort of started from the same spot, that sucks.
I hope you werent onenof the people saying the Giants ending the season 5-3 last year meant nothing..
And Darnold ha splayed well but Jones has played just as eell if not better than Darnold..
I didn't say there was guaranteed success. I suggested that Tepper's mindset and business approach fit the way the game is moving today. He's all in on finding the best, most reliable variables to help build the best football teams.
When he talks about football it's like listening to someone who is the complete opposite of Mara.
Ok, so your evidence of this grand plan is subjective and anecdotal at best.
My conclusion is simple deductive reasoning.
That said there is a long season to go so let’s see what these guys can do. All this talking really means nothing, the proof is in the wins and losses and we have not had a lot of wins the last several years.
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Are 28 and 27 respectively. Williams is 27.
They’ll all be 30 or older by the team this team maybe is ready to compete for a title. I wouldn’t consider those “good young players”
Ok so weighted by age of starting players u27, the good young players on Carolina are Burns (23), Brown (23), Chinn (23), Horn (21)?
And qualifying Giants would be Lawrence (22), McKinney (21), Ojulari (21)? Crowder (24) or Love (23) maybe too?
And slightly older on both sides Peppers (25), Adoree Jackson (26), Carter (25), and Donte Jackson (25)?
Burns is the standout of that u27 group but the nyg overall talent base isn't in a different galaxy. And I think they have the edge in the a27/28 group (I'd take Bradberry, Williams, Martinez > Thompson, Reddick).
The stats from this year obviously lean Carolina's way right now but everyone mentioned above except Horn and Reddick were on Carolina last year, when the NYG defense was a lot better over a full year.
Burns, Brown and Chin are immensely better than the Giants under 27 group. Peppers has been average at best and brutal this year so far. He’s not even being kept on the field.
Hell, you've got some people whose optimism is based on how we just barely lost to the Redskins!
The Giants were one of the model franchises for a long time. Very hard to out scheme physicality to a championship. When they establish that again with the right HC and QB they’ll contend again.
Pretty obvious Rhule is building a fast physical team. Time will tell if he has his QB. He learned well from TC.
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If the Giants ripped off three wins to start the season, even if all three of our opponents in those games were weak-ass, loser teams playing their third string QBs and fourth string OLs due to COVID, they would be orgasming all over every thread, praising Gettleman to the skies and anointing Daniel Jones the God Emperor Quarterback of the next decade.
Hell, you've got some people whose optimism is based on how we just barely lost to the Redskins!
And the whiny, miserable ducks would fire back that those teams absolutely suck and those wins don’t mean shit. Let’s see them beat the good teams consistently! They certainly wouldn’t be jerking off to pictures of the head coach and claiming that the rebuild is about complete and tacking about how jealous of us other fan bases should be.
Funny how that works both ways, right?
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In comment 15381269 Gary from The East End said:
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If the Giants ripped off three wins to start the season, even if all three of our opponents in those games were weak-ass, loser teams playing their third string QBs and fourth string OLs due to COVID, they would be orgasming all over every thread, praising Gettleman to the skies and anointing Daniel Jones the God Emperor Quarterback of the next decade.
Hell, you've got some people whose optimism is based on how we just barely lost to the Redskins!
And the whiny, miserable ducks would fire back that those teams absolutely suck and those wins don’t mean shit. Let’s see them beat the good teams consistently! They certainly wouldn’t be jerking off to pictures of the head coach and claiming that the rebuild is about complete and tacking about how jealous of us other fan bases should be.
Funny how that works both ways, right?
It would be nice if they could string together some wins so we could test your theory.
On one side we have facts: the Giants are 0-2 and the worst team in the NFL the last five years, yet there are people here resenting posters who criticize the Giants.
On the other side we have a theory: if the Giants are good the critical posters would keep whining anyway.
- 15-35
- 0 weeks above .500 since 2016
How do you expect to be taken seriously?
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In comment 15381656 santacruzom said:
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In comment 15381269 Gary from The East End said:
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If the Giants ripped off three wins to start the season, even if all three of our opponents in those games were weak-ass, loser teams playing their third string QBs and fourth string OLs due to COVID, they would be orgasming all over every thread, praising Gettleman to the skies and anointing Daniel Jones the God Emperor Quarterback of the next decade.
Hell, you've got some people whose optimism is based on how we just barely lost to the Redskins!
And the whiny, miserable ducks would fire back that those teams absolutely suck and those wins don’t mean shit. Let’s see them beat the good teams consistently! They certainly wouldn’t be jerking off to pictures of the head coach and claiming that the rebuild is about complete and tacking about how jealous of us other fan bases should be.
Funny how that works both ways, right?
It would be nice if they could string together some wins so we could test your theory.
On one side we have facts: the Giants are 0-2 and the worst team in the NFL the last five years, yet there are people here resenting posters who criticize the Giants.
On the other side we have a theory: if the Giants are good the critical posters would keep whining anyway.
- 15-35
- 0 weeks above .500 since 2016
How do you expect to be taken seriously?
The Panthers had a worse record than the Giants last season. After 3 wins, two of which were the Jets and Texans, all you assclowns are in awe and full of praise. Are you seriously saying you’d have the same viewpoint if the Giants beat those teams? Because we all know the answer to that. You’d say exactly what I said in my post. And you know it. It’s ok for you to think that the Giants suck and still think it’s laughable that posters are somehow “jealous” of the freakin Panthers. But of course you won’t do that. You’re so arrogant and self important that you think if you hone enough on a chat board you’ll have influence on the Giants. How’s that worked out for ya so far?
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In comment 15381684 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15381656 santacruzom said:
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In comment 15381269 Gary from The East End said:
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If the Giants ripped off three wins to start the season, even if all three of our opponents in those games were weak-ass, loser teams playing their third string QBs and fourth string OLs due to COVID, they would be orgasming all over every thread, praising Gettleman to the skies and anointing Daniel Jones the God Emperor Quarterback of the next decade.
Hell, you've got some people whose optimism is based on how we just barely lost to the Redskins!
And the whiny, miserable ducks would fire back that those teams absolutely suck and those wins don’t mean shit. Let’s see them beat the good teams consistently! They certainly wouldn’t be jerking off to pictures of the head coach and claiming that the rebuild is about complete and tacking about how jealous of us other fan bases should be.
Funny how that works both ways, right?
It would be nice if they could string together some wins so we could test your theory.
On one side we have facts: the Giants are 0-2 and the worst team in the NFL the last five years, yet there are people here resenting posters who criticize the Giants.
On the other side we have a theory: if the Giants are good the critical posters would keep whining anyway.
- 15-35
- 0 weeks above .500 since 2016
How do you expect to be taken seriously?
The Panthers had a worse record than the Giants last season. After 3 wins, two of which were the Jets and Texans, all you assclowns are in awe and full of praise. Are you seriously saying you’d have the same viewpoint if the Giants beat those teams? Because we all know the answer to that. You’d say exactly what I said in my post. And you know it. It’s ok for you to think that the Giants suck and still think it’s laughable that posters are somehow “jealous” of the freakin Panthers. But of course you won’t do that. You’re so arrogant and self important that you think if you hone enough on a chat board you’ll have influence on the Giants. How’s that worked out for ya so far?
LOL wow, the caricatures people will create to dismiss opinions they don't like
While true they haven't beaten anyone great, they won and played well against those teams. If we swapped places, I'd be cautiously optimistic. Beats the hell out of my current feelings.
The Panthers look like they are a step ahead of the Giants. I wish the Giants were there. We’ll see Sunday.
I thought the Giants were an 8 win team going in, and I truly thought there was no way the lowly WFT hangs with the Giants on a short week with a back up QB. That gave me pause.
The Panthers look like they are a step ahead of the Giants. I wish the Giants were there. We’ll see Sunday.
I thought the Giants were an 8 win team going in, and I truly thought there was no way the lowly WFT hangs with the Giants on a short week with a back up QB. That gave me pause.
The Giants upcoming schedule is brutal. If they lose to Atlanta I have no idea where the wins are coming from.
That said, the Panthers play the Giants in a month. We shall see how this thread ages at that point.
If you switched the Panthers and Giants this place would be in an orgasmic frenzy about how good they are.
But why created the caricature of a poster thinking that they'll influence the Giants by whining enough on BBI? Ridiculous
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Not sure what opinion you’re talking about but I’m fully aware the Giants suck. I’m as pissed as anyone else even if I’m not whining about it on 700 threads a day saying the same thing over and over and over and over again. I’ve been plenty critical of this team. Gettleman, Garrett and Jones in particular. Where we go our separate ways is I refuse to bow down to the all mighty Carolina Panthers because they beat the Jets and Texans. Starting a thread about them? Come on now. Like I said, it’s ok to acknowledge that the Giants suck while also acknowledging that it’s incredibly premature and almost ludicrous to be stroking off to the Panthers at this point, no?
If you switched the Panthers and Giants this place would be in an orgasmic frenzy about how good they are.
But why created the caricature of a poster thinking that they'll influence the Giants by whining enough on BBI? Ridiculous
Not sure how new you are, but posters have literally said that on this board. There have been threads about the Giants having moles on the here. That is a FACT. So I’m not sure what’s so “ridiculous” about it? These posters honestly believe that if they are negative enough on this site the Giants will take notice. You think I’m making this shit up? Unfortunately I’m not.
The Panthers look like they are a step ahead of the Giants. I wish the Giants were there. We’ll see Sunday.
I thought the Giants were an 8 win team going in, and I truly thought there was no way the lowly WFT hangs with the Giants on a short week with a back up QB. That gave me pause.
I remember that thread you started saying we should basically roll WFT. KOD. ;)
But you underestimated Heinicke. He was very good last year in the playoff game against Tampa. A gamer. And it showed last Thursday. Don't know if you know this, but he was incredible at Old Dominion University. Won the Walter Payton Award (the Heisman of 1-AA football). Which is good company with guys like Tony Romo, Jimmy G, Cooper Kupp, Trey Lance, etc.
This could be my KOD moment, but I think we beat ATL by 10.
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In comment 15381718 BigBlueShock said:
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Not sure what opinion you’re talking about but I’m fully aware the Giants suck. I’m as pissed as anyone else even if I’m not whining about it on 700 threads a day saying the same thing over and over and over and over again. I’ve been plenty critical of this team. Gettleman, Garrett and Jones in particular. Where we go our separate ways is I refuse to bow down to the all mighty Carolina Panthers because they beat the Jets and Texans. Starting a thread about them? Come on now. Like I said, it’s ok to acknowledge that the Giants suck while also acknowledging that it’s incredibly premature and almost ludicrous to be stroking off to the Panthers at this point, no?
If you switched the Panthers and Giants this place would be in an orgasmic frenzy about how good they are.
But why created the caricature of a poster thinking that they'll influence the Giants by whining enough on BBI? Ridiculous
Not sure how new you are, but posters have literally said that on this board. There have been threads about the Giants having moles on the here. That is a FACT. So I’m not sure what’s so “ridiculous” about it? These posters honestly believe that if they are negative enough on this site the Giants will take notice. You think I’m making this shit up? Unfortunately I’m not.
0_o...
I've heard a lot of ridiculous things on sports team forums, but wow. As I have no reason to disbelieve you I'll retract my previous post
But you underestimated Heinicke. He was very good last year in the playoff game against Tampa. A gamer. And it showed last Thursday. Don't know if you know this, but he was incredible at Old Dominion University. Won the Walter Payton Award (the Heisman of 1-AA football). Which is good company with guys like Tony Romo, Jimmy G, Cooper Kupp, Trey Lance, etc.
This could be my KOD moment, but I think we beat ATL by 10.
I underestimated 1) how big of a step back the Giants defensive line has taken 2) how brain dead the defensive philosophy would be to let a Walter Payton award winner have so many uncontested throws.
If the Giants don’t beat Atlanta by 10, I’ll be shocked again!
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so far a better defense, and more effective TEs (Dan Arnold and Tommy Tremble). In fact, the Panthers resemble what the Giants were under Parcells. Maybe this is Matt Rhule's vision of a successful NFL team.
So what’s your prediction 14-3?
They were 5-11 last year. I think a winning record is possible.