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Anyone else jealous of the Panthers right now?

Sean : 9/24/2021 7:44 am
David Tepper bought the Panthers a few years ago, and 2019 was the year he started putting his stamp on the organization. His quote about overhauling the football operations back in 2019 was debated (linked below).

A lot of us on BBI, myself included wanted Matt Rhule. The Giants never even had the chance to talk to him. Yes, Rhule called the Giants with the opportunity to match, but it was way too late. Why didn’t ownership talk to Rhule? Because they let Tepper dictate the negotiation. Tepper flew to Waco to pitch Rhule, the Giants waited for Rhule to come to them. Tepper closed the deal.

Both the Giants & Panthers were in a similar spot after 2019. The difference is, the Giants hired Judge and pretty much stopped there. The Panthers hired Rhule and it was clear they immediately had a clear plan in place. The team FULLY committed to defense in the 2020 & 2021 drafts. A clear vision for what the team will look like.

The Panthers retained GM Marty Hurney after 2019, but only briefly. Hurney was fired last December and a new GM was brought in to work with Rhule.

Lastly, the Panthers trade for Darnold for pennies on the dollar, and Darnold is now playing better after being saddled with Gase.

I’m not bailing on Judge, Rhule has much more support in Carolina. But, this is another example of many BBI’ers calling all of this in real time. Tepper knew what was needed and executed, the Giants didn’t.

The Giants are ALWAYS reactive. It is always a game of whac-a-mole trying to address needs. There never seems to be a vision for building a team. Continuing to use the draft to reach for needs.

It is very frustrating. The Panthers very well make the playoffs this year while the Giants may struggle to finish 6-11. When will it finally hit home with Mara?
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well...  
DannyDimes : 9/24/2021 7:45 am : link
Nope... we'll win a playoff game before they do.
their next 3 will tell us a lot  
UConn4523 : 9/24/2021 7:49 am : link
we beat the Skins, Eagles, Bengals and Seahawks last year and it didn't get us to a winning season. If they are 3-3 in a few weeks what's this conversation look like? If they are 4-2 or better than there's a lot to look forward to as a Panther fan.

Am I jealous? No shot.
i'm jealous of their defense  
cjac : 9/24/2021 7:50 am : link
but really who have they played yet? they beat the Jets and Houston, arguably 2 of the worst teams in the NFL, and they shut down J Winston, again not exactly a top guy. Lets see what happens when they play a good team.

Beat Philly, Dallas and WFT for us, then i'll have respect
At no point in my life  
SLIM_ : 9/24/2021 7:51 am : link
have I looked at the Panthers as an organization to be jealous of.

There are many organizations that have proven to be better run over the past 10 years. The Panthers aren't one of them.

If your frame of reference is the past 2 years, they will have 1 additional win than us provided we beat the Falcons.
 
ryanmkeane : 9/24/2021 7:52 am : link
Sean - did you actually watch the game? Did you watch their game against the Jets?
right now, yes  
LG in NYC : 9/24/2021 7:53 am : link
we were more or less in the same place 2 years ago and often talked about in the same breath (particularly around Rhule).

2 years later they are a team clearly pointing up and we are running in place (until proven otherwise).

I still like Judge, so not lamenting not getting Rhule but you look at this version of Sam Darnold (the one without Gase) and it makes you question the Barkley pick all over again.

Will re-evaluate at end of season to see if this thread holds up but right now the Panthers definitely seem to have pushed the right buttons while Benny Hill is still walking around muttering about hog mollies and computer guys.
OMG  
jvm52106 : 9/24/2021 8:02 am : link
so many whiners here. We should have beaten the Skins. Not just if we played better but we had them beat but a close offsides penalty gave them a second chance at a FG.

Jones is far better than Darnold. Come on, seriously.. The Texans are horrible and have a (regardless of how nice he is and how much everyone loves him) horrible coach. He makes the worst decisions in game I have ever seen since Jim Zorn!

BTW- the Texans made it known they are willing to trade anyone on their roster. Britt at Center and even Cannon at Rt would be of interest to me.
Answer This Question  
Samiam : 9/24/2021 8:15 am : link
I know it’s been a short period of time but would you rather have Tepper or Mara as owner. Tepper identified Rhule as his coach and goes and gets him. Mara waits for Rhule to come to him and won’t match Tepper’s offer. I like Judge but people weren’t exactly bidding to get him. And, going forward, we’re a team with a bad record over an extended period of time and willl have serious cap problems going forward and that doesn’t even include new contracts for Barkley and Jones. And, if we don’t pay/them going forward, what does that tell you?
Haven't really watched the Panthers at all but  
NYGgolfer : 9/24/2021 8:18 am : link
yes, I am jealous of rebuilding teams that are winning at a quicker rate than the Giants.

We need some more tangible signs that what is being done in NY has legs. How long do we give this current process without that?
Nope  
Mike in NY : 9/24/2021 8:20 am : link
They are 3-0 because they have played two of the worst teams including one with backup QB. We scored more against Washington than Carolina had against any of their opponents.
would I rather have Tepper?  
UConn4523 : 9/24/2021 8:23 am : link
I don't know. Sounds nice now but really don't have a clue long term. Take a look at the richest owners in the league and there's really no correlation to winning.
Don't really see  
winoguy : 9/24/2021 8:24 am : link
what the Panthers have accomplished to be jealous of . Yet
The Panthers no.....KC yes.  
George from PA : 9/24/2021 8:24 am : link
The Panthers are frauds....
RE: The Panthers no.....KC yes.  
GF1080 : 9/24/2021 8:29 am : link
In comment 15380955 George from PA said:
Quote:
The Panthers are frauds....


I would love to be a 3-0 fraud team one day.
We got DG from CAR!!!  
DC Gmen Fan : 9/24/2021 8:29 am : link
By the way I don’t think Rhule ever intended to come to NY.
Im not jealous… they haven’t accomplished anything yet  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/24/2021 8:31 am : link
But they have a good young core on their defense. They’ve hit on a lot of their picks on that side of the ball, Horn, Brown, Burns, Chinn, Thompson (going back a while).
I'm not jealous of Rhule  
Mike in NJ : 9/24/2021 8:32 am : link
I'm jealous that they have Joe Brady while we are stuck with Jason Garrett.

I also think we should be jealous that they have already "been there, done that" with Gettleman, and are beyond that mistake, while we are still stuck with him running the show.
Denver was a horrible game we know  
UberAlias : 9/24/2021 8:33 am : link
But Wash was not nearly the disaster people are making it out to be. Between the lines they won the game and we saw a lot of positive takeways on the offensive side. The talent still isn't here and I feel many overestimated the defensive talent in particular. But I expect this team to be competative but with some ups and downs along the way until we get some true top end talent on the roster.
My issue is with the Giants process..  
Sean : 9/24/2021 8:38 am : link
Since the moment Rhule was hired, he had a clear vision for the team. They went ALL defense in the 2020 draft, and then drafted Horn with their first round pick last year.

I don’t see that process with the Giants. Felt like they were chasing 2016 in March this year.
I was never a Rhule guy...  
bw in dc : 9/24/2021 8:49 am : link
So no jealousy for me. I never saw this outstanding coaching candidate.

Let's face it, Mara didn't want to pay what Rhule was asking or give him the decision making latitude. He is just too stuck in his ways...

But the Panthers are off to a very solid start. And any win on a Thursday night - the absolute worst day for an NFL football game with such a short week - is a big deal.

Remember, Rhule and the Panthers started 0-2 last and then whipped off 3 straight wins to go to 3-2. But then they collapsed. So let's tap the breaks a bit, especially if they lose CMC and Horn for significant time.

I do like, however, the decision making authority Rhule has in Carolina. He's really calling the shots on personnel. And he signed off when Tepper wanted to have another voice in the GM role. So they hired Fitterer. The dynamic of having the HC essentially hire the GM is very appealing versus the other way around...
Maybe Giants were so blown away  
joeinpa : 9/24/2021 8:52 am : link
By Judge Rhule was no longer their top candidate. Not sure how that fits the narrative of Tepper manipulating the negotiations or the Giants being reactive.

Right now I would not want Rhule over Judge, we ll see how that plays out.

If Lawerence doesn’t jump the first fg attempt, are we even having this discussion, probably not

Things wouldn t be much different, Giants would have still put themselves into a position to lose because they don’t make plays in crunch time, but had they won, don’t think we re having this discussion.

Fans are as a whole are over reactionary on a game by game basis.

It s. It overreacting to be disgusted with the losing, no, that s been going on for a while now, questions should be asked.

Just not sure asking if we re jealous of the Panthers is an objective question.
Rhule tried to pull  
Dnew15 : 9/24/2021 8:53 am : link
a power play on the Giants and they weren't having it.

Rhule got paid, the Giants got Judge.

Time will tell who got the better deal.
and then McCaffery when out with a hammy last night  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/24/2021 8:54 am : link
and they looked very, very ordinary after that happened

Darnold is good when there is no pressure on him -- the knock against him is that he comes up small in big spots
...  
BrettNYG10 : 9/24/2021 8:54 am : link
I'm jealous they lost their star running back and were able to adjust instead of using it as an excuse.
Pump the brakes  
Rick in Dallas : 9/24/2021 9:04 am : link
It’s a long season. Their OL is going to get Darnold beat up
What a strange creating of a thread  
giantstock : 9/24/2021 9:07 am : link
Jealous of the Panthers?

Seriously???
Two of their first 3 games were against QB's starting  
Section331 : 9/24/2021 9:11 am : link
their first game. Not merely rookie QB's, but rookie QB's making their first start. I wouldn't be dusting the shelf for the Lombardi just yet.
RE: What a strange creating of a thread  
Sean : 9/24/2021 9:12 am : link
In comment 15380991 giantstock said:
Quote:
Jealous of the Panthers?

Seriously???

I don’t think it’s strange. I’m talking about organizational process since 2019, I’m not talking historically.
I’m jealous of any team that wins games when we don’t  
mfsd : 9/24/2021 9:14 am : link
But I agree with those saying I don’t yet see the Panthers as the org to aspire to. We’ll see

The Panthers have a better OL, better running backs,  
GeofromNJ : 9/24/2021 9:16 am : link
so far a better defense, and more effective TEs (Dan Arnold and Tommy Tremble). In fact, the Panthers resemble what the Giants were under Parcells. Maybe this is Matt Rhule's vision of a successful NFL team.
Rhule does have a proven record of improving losing teams  
jsuds : 9/24/2021 9:22 am : link
He did it with the pattern of break it down year 1, rebuild year two, excel year three. Looks like he is following that path in the NFL so far.
RE: The Panthers have a better OL, better running backs,  
UConn4523 : 9/24/2021 9:25 am : link
In comment 15380998 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
so far a better defense, and more effective TEs (Dan Arnold and Tommy Tremble). In fact, the Panthers resemble what the Giants were under Parcells. Maybe this is Matt Rhule's vision of a successful NFL team.


So what’s your prediction 14-3?
This is what really provides  
TrueBlue56 : 9/24/2021 9:25 am : link
my comic relief on this site.

Look at the Panthers, omg matt Rhule is 2-0 and aren't we so jealous.

Tepper is considered a genius for paying an inexperienced NFL head coach as if he actually accomplished something as an NFL coach. John Mara does that, and what the hell is he thinking, omg more clueless moves by a clueless organization going back to old giants ties. No imagination and more of the same.

The Panthers executed their plan but the giants didn't. Joe judge must have been a consolation prize.

Let me guess you were jealous of the chargers and how they fleeced accorsi for the Manning trade too. I mean after all they got merriman (the steroid user), and mr. Clutch kicker nate Kaeding.
RE: This is what really provides  
Victor in CT : 9/24/2021 9:28 am : link
In comment 15381008 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
my comic relief on this site.

Look at the Panthers, omg matt Rhule is 2-0 and aren't we so jealous.

Tepper is considered a genius for paying an inexperienced NFL head coach as if he actually accomplished something as an NFL coach. John Mara does that, and what the hell is he thinking, omg more clueless moves by a clueless organization going back to old giants ties. No imagination and more of the same.

The Panthers executed their plan but the giants didn't. Joe judge must have been a consolation prize.

Let me guess you were jealous of the chargers and how they fleeced accorsi for the Manning trade too. I mean after all they got merriman (the steroid user), and mr. Clutch kicker nate Kaeding.


good post.
RE: We got DG from CAR!!!  
Debaser : 9/24/2021 9:30 am : link
In comment 15380960 DC Gmen Fan said:
Quote:
By the way I don’t think Rhule ever intended to come to NY.


This whole thing with his resume and what he "built" there. He didn't build shit. He came in with key pieces already in place. An HC in Riverboat with a rep as a good coach. He had a Cam Newton already there who hapened to have an MVP season when resume Dave shows up and they also had hall of fame talent linebacker. AND that was NOT because of resume Dave. that was before he was GM.

And yea 3-0 with a nice young up and coming QB that actually do not use the same formation like 95% of the time on offense. I wish I had that sure. And do not pretend like the Giants are magically gong to become better and be like the 9-7 team that went to the SB. This team is not good and has not been good for a long time now.
RE: RE: This is what really provides  
Debaser : 9/24/2021 9:36 am : link
In comment 15381012 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 15381008 TrueBlue56 said:


Quote:


my comic relief on this site.

Look at the Panthers, omg matt Rhule is 2-0 and aren't we so jealous.

Tepper is considered a genius for paying an inexperienced NFL head coach as if he actually accomplished something as an NFL coach. John Mara does that, and what the hell is he thinking, omg more clueless moves by a clueless organization going back to old giants ties. No imagination and more of the same.

The Panthers executed their plan but the giants didn't. Joe judge must have been a consolation prize.

Let me guess you were jealous of the chargers and how they fleeced accorsi for the Manning trade too. I mean after all they got merriman (the steroid user), and mr. Clutch kicker nate Kaeding.



good post.


Why is that a good post. The fact is the Giants were already a competitive team Without ELI. THey would've gone to the playoffs with Kurt Warner. It just so happens the Accorsi saw something in Eli in a heavy QB draft class when the Giants were picking high. Or are we still pretending this team is going to win a bunch of games and make a playoff run? Teams that go 0-2 for like 6 consecutive years do not normally just magically turn things around mid-season. In fact you can argue that the Giants season is pretty much already over.
.  
Danny Kanell : 9/24/2021 9:41 am : link
Not particularly, no.
There was a time not long ago  
UConn4523 : 9/24/2021 9:49 am : link
when Indy was the next big thing. Great drafts, upward trajectory, and now they are are looking down the barrel at 0-3.

Lots needs to go right to win and have sustained success. There will be a bunch of 2 and 3 loss teams after this week, many were thought to have turned the corner.
RE: There was a time not long ago  
Sean : 9/24/2021 9:50 am : link
In comment 15381028 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
when Indy was the next big thing. Great drafts, upward trajectory, and now they are are looking down the barrel at 0-3.

Lots needs to go right to win and have sustained success. There will be a bunch of 2 and 3 loss teams after this week, many were thought to have turned the corner.

This is very fair.
RE: RE: We got DG from CAR!!!  
TrueBlue56 : 9/24/2021 9:51 am : link
In comment 15381013 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15380960 DC Gmen Fan said:


Quote:


By the way I don’t think Rhule ever intended to come to NY.



This whole thing with his resume and what he "built" there. He didn't build shit. He came in with key pieces already in place. An HC in Riverboat with a rep as a good coach. He had a Cam Newton already there who hapened to have an MVP season when resume Dave shows up and they also had hall of fame talent linebacker. AND that was NOT because of resume Dave. that was before he was GM.

And yea 3-0 with a nice young up and coming QB that actually do not use the same formation like 95% of the time on offense. I wish I had that sure. And do not pretend like the Giants are magically gong to become better and be like the 9-7 team that went to the SB. This team is not good and has not been good for a long time now.


Let's see, the Panthers record prior to gettleman. They made the playoffs once in 7 years and finished 8-8 or worse every year except the 1 playoff year. They finished 1st only once.. When Dave became GM they made the playoffs 3 out of the 4 years and went right back to losing after he left, which lead to Rivera getting fired. 2 straight losing seasons. They had another losing record last year.

but don't let facts get in the way of a good gettleman bashing.

Oh, and cam newtons mvp year was 2015 and gettleman was the gm at that time. Damn, more of those pesky facts again
RE: RE: We got DG from CAR!!!  
DC Gmen Fan : 9/24/2021 9:51 am : link
In comment 15381013 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15380960 DC Gmen Fan said:


Quote:


By the way I don’t think Rhule ever intended to come to NY.



This whole thing with his resume and what he "built" there. He didn't build shit. He came in with key pieces already in place. An HC in Riverboat with a rep as a good coach. He had a Cam Newton already there who hapened to have an MVP season when resume Dave shows up and they also had hall of fame talent linebacker. AND that was NOT because of resume Dave. that was before he was GM.

And yea 3-0 with a nice young up and coming QB that actually do not use the same formation like 95% of the time on offense. I wish I had that sure. And do not pretend like the Giants are magically gong to become better and be like the 9-7 team that went to the SB. This team is not good and has not been good for a long time now.


Sorry I was being sarcastic.
The Panthers are a very good team. Darnold just needed to  
MartyNJ1969 : 9/24/2021 9:52 am : link
play for a good coach and change of scenary and it shows. Houston even looked good (better then us) going into 4th qtr last night.
You're not serious  
Chris684 : 9/24/2021 9:55 am : link
are you?

Have fun on the Panthers bandwagon!
RE: There was a time not long ago  
BrettNYG10 : 9/24/2021 9:55 am : link
In comment 15381028 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
when Indy was the next big thing. Great drafts, upward trajectory, and now they are are looking down the barrel at 0-3.

Lots needs to go right to win and have sustained success. There will be a bunch of 2 and 3 loss teams after this week, many were thought to have turned the corner.


I'm a fan of what the Colts have done. They have had a brutal schedule to start the year. They're a good QB away from competing IMO.
I was jealous of them last year when they started 3-2  
Eric on Li : 9/24/2021 9:56 am : link
but then they ended up losing 9 of their last 11 and finishing with a worse record than we did. Long season and they've definitely had a good schedule to start. They got Zack Wilson's first start, Jameis, and then Mills first start, which is somehow an even easier group to face then Bridgewater/Heineke/Ryan.

I do think Rhule did a great job hiring Brady especially. He has had 2 retread QBs and very little CMC and they generally move the ball. I thought Snow was a huge mistake too and that doesn't seem to be the case.
These threads are pure gold  
BigBlueShock : 9/24/2021 9:58 am : link
The same exact threads were started last season after the Panthers started off 3-2 and the Giants struggled. Matt Rhule this and David Tepper that. Then they won 2 of their last 11 games and ended drafting ahead of the Giants. Didn’t hear so much about the mighty tandem. All it took was wins over the mighty Jets and Texans and here we are again…

Absolutely comical.
People on this board always  
ajr2456 : 9/24/2021 10:03 am : link
Point to “the needle moving in the right direction” after the Giants beat a couple of bad teams at the end of every year, but now beating bad teams is meaningless?

Which one is it? At the end of the day the Panthers are 3-0 and we’re 0-2. Unless they go 2-12 they’ll likely end up with a better record than the Giants, so yea I’d probably take the Panthers situation over ours.

Lots of good young players on defense, still on reasonable contracts. Moore, CMC, Darnold on offense with Brady running the show and this offseason they’ll probably invest on that side similarly to how they did on the defense year 1.

For a board that loves to talk about trajectories, id take the Panthers trajectory over ours.
Never going to be jealous of any team  
kdog77 : 9/24/2021 10:04 am : link
that has never won a Super Bowl.

Matt Rhule has 8 wins and 11 losses as an NFL head coach. Let's see him get his team to a winning record and a division title or deep into the playoffs before we anoint him as the second coming of Bill Parcells.

For all the hot take artists on twitter and the media telling everyone that McVay, Shanahan, Stefanski, LaFleur and Rhule are the new cool kids in the NFL making all the right moves, they still have a collective 0 Super Bowl rings among them. It is hard to win in the NFL and even the best coaches rarely win the whole thing more than once.
RE: RE: There was a time not long ago  
UConn4523 : 9/24/2021 10:10 am : link
In comment 15381037 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 15381028 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


when Indy was the next big thing. Great drafts, upward trajectory, and now they are are looking down the barrel at 0-3.

Lots needs to go right to win and have sustained success. There will be a bunch of 2 and 3 loss teams after this week, many were thought to have turned the corner.



I'm a fan of what the Colts have done. They have had a brutal schedule to start the year. They're a good QB away from competing IMO.


Aren’t lost teams? I’d consider Daniel Jones last week an example of a good QB. If he plays like that 75% of the time we likely go to the playoffs. No idea if that will happen but a good half the league or so is in this boat.
Absolutely  
Giants73 : 9/24/2021 10:11 am : link
A well coach team with minimal talent. As they get more pieces for Rhule the team will be much better. As for they played 2 rookie qbs, the Giants faced Teddy and the backup redskin qb and still lost. Why wouldn’t anyone rather have a winning team, then an 0-2 team. Plus their coaches know how to coach, not afraid of making tough calls. Meanwhile, Judge can have more people quit. Not play kids because they need to earn some crap. Cut additional linemen or put them on the practice squad to get taken so he can stockpile special teamers. Carolina seems to have a game plan which isn’t let’s not lose by too much, make the other team take awhile to score.
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